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  1. #1
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    2011 Element RSL / MSL FAQ's

    Ok, same as Slayer. Got any??

    1. When will they be available??

    VERY limited availability sometime in August. Pricing TBD.
    --------------------------
    2. Will it be possible to swap between RSL (98mm) and MSL (120mm) by swapping parts?

    We are not planning on selling shocks and links separately.
    --------------------------
    3. Are you selling frames only?

    Yes. 70 MSL and Team RSL.
    --------------------------
    4. What does it weigh?

    20.5" RSL frame + RP23 XV shock: 1960g (4.3 lbs)

    18" RSL built with ALMOST Team spec (XTR / Next / Syncros Carbon wheels / Next SL crank, no pedals): 9.89kg (21.75lbs)
    --------------------------
    5. What sizes will it come in?

    15 / 16.5 / 18 / 19 / 20.5
    --------------------------
    6. Is it an aluminum frame?

    All MSL and RSL bikes are full monocoque Smoothwall carbon construction.
    --------------------------
    7. What are the paint jobs?

    Most models will be nude UD carbon w. decals. Exception: Element 70 MSL (red)
    --------------------------
    8. Will the carbon dropouts wear out?

    Depends. Do you tighten your QR's properly? Uses super dense compression molded carbon. If you tend to leave your QR's loose, yes, you will grind through your dropout just like you would on an alu frame. Not too tight, not too lose. Just right...
    --------------------------
    9. Will the BB height change vs 2010?

    The RSL BB height is the same as 2010. The MSL height is 6.5mm higher than RSL
    --------------------------
    Last edited by RMB-PM; 05-07-2010 at 09:47 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Full range of frame sizes?
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  3. #3
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    How will an MSL compare to an ETSX (2008)?

  4. #4
    ccm
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    is the 70 MSL an aluminum frame?

  5. #5
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    Hmmmm, might be just the thing to replace my Amp B-3 with.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMB-PM
    Ok, same as Slayer. Got any??

    1. When will they be available??

    VERY limited availability sometime in August. Pricing TBD.
    Will any make it across the pond?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMB-PM
    1. When will they be available??

    VERY limited availability sometime in August. Pricing TBD.
    But with increased availability by and beyond Eurobike/Interbike?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric
    Will any make it across the pond?
    Of course
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    But with increased availability by and beyond Eurobike/Interbike?
    Volume production will ramp up approx 1.5 month after 1st run.
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  10. #10
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    The new Element is a great looking bike!!!

    Will there be a aluminum frame in the MSL-lineup?

  11. #11
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    Can you put a coil and a Shiver on it?

    Oh wait this isn't the Slayer thread on NSMB...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by shirk
    Can you put a coil and a Shiver on it?

    Oh wait this isn't the Slayer thread on NSMB...
    Yes. A 100mm Single crown Shiver. And a coil shock made of wish glue and dreams.

    Good luck with that!
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  13. #13
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    Found this link on a Dutch forum: http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=460202

    Pics, specs, and geo info. That should save RMB-PM answering some questions
    Last edited by de lars cuevas; 05-07-2010 at 01:42 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Any idea what the pain schemes will be? From Lars' link it looks like a black RSL and a red MSL...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by de lars cuevas
    Found this link on a Dutch forum:http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=460202
    Pics, specs, and geo info. That should save RMB-PM answering some questions
    All except the question about left hand drive derailleurs...

    But seriously folks... have there been enough test miles to see whether there's any sign of erosion on the rear dropouts where there'd be direct axle thread to carbon dropout contact?

    2011 Element RSL / MSL FAQ's-element70msl_details_06.jpg

    That bike is painfully sexy in red just like the Slayer in red. Will the Element Team version be mostly exposed carbon like the Vertex Team? What's the paint job weigh?

    2011 Element RSL / MSL FAQ's-element_rocky_mountain2.jpg

    Pretty sexy in black paint too. Nice details with the anodized cable ferrules.

    2011 Element RSL / MSL FAQ's-element70rsl_details_20.jpg
    Last edited by rockyuphill; 05-06-2010 at 06:21 AM.
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  16. #16
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    The dropouts are Carbon fiber with no ability to change them out without replacing the seat stay!!!!!!

    Oh Oh I wear out a 2005 Element dropout in about a 1 1/2 year....

    That is a serious drawback.

  17. #17
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    FWIW my road bike has had no issues (it's an Ibis with carbon dropouts and sees quite a few wheel changes). The same applies to a friends Ibis Mojo, and I'm pretty sure it gets quite a beating on a regular basis.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric
    FWIW my road bike has had no issues (it's an Ibis with carbon dropouts and sees quite a few wheel changes). The same applies to a friends Ibis Mojo, and I'm pretty sure it gets quite a beating on a regular basis.

    So you don't wear out dropouts


    Geez I do even aluminium ones...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    So you don't wear out dropouts


    Geez I do even aluminium ones...
    There are little dents from the skewer nut, but that's it. This said, I tighten down my QR really hard. The only frame with significant dropout wear is my Vertex, where the skewer has been coming slightly loose over time for a couple of years.*



    * Yeah, I know I really should buy a new skewer.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric
    There are little dents from the skewer nut, but that's it. This said, I tighten down my QR really hard. The only frame with significant dropout wear is my Vertex, where the skewer has been coming slightly loose over time for a couple of years.*



    * Yeah, I know I really should buy a new skewer.

    Hmmm apparently you spread the wear out over three bikes....

    And yet you still get some wear on Aluminium dropouts....

    Well I ride one bike and the Aluminium dropouts last a 1 1/2 year...

    Carbon maybe tougher or not, but having to replace steat stays every year or so, when a small wear piece could be inserted....

    That is a downside.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    So you don't wear out dropouts


    Geez I do even aluminium ones...
    How on earth are you wearing out the drop out on a frame?

    Some superficial gouging in the paint sure, but wearing thru?

    Crank that skewer down tight and it shouldn't really move.

  22. #22
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    3 months of North Shore abuse under Peteypete:



    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    The dropouts are Carbon fiber with no ability to change them out without replacing the seat stay!!!!!!

    Oh Oh I wear out a 2005 Element dropout in about a 1 1/2 year....

    That is a serious drawback.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2011 Element RSL / MSL FAQ's-garda-2010-071.jpg  

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  23. #23
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    That is the start of the wear pattern...

    Then the axle stub begins to wear the inside of the dropout...

    That results in the axle starting to move back and forth, which screwse up the shifting and can cause brake rub...

    I run Mavic SLR's with really tight QRs..

  24. #24
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    Love the paint jobs, but please, PLEASE somebody tell me the MSL will be available in a color that I go ape on with orange ano parts. 8-)

  25. #25
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    That's nice I don't think the carbon dropouts will be an issue - I've seen plenty of rowing boats and blades take a lot of wear to surfaces over years of (ab)use without issue.
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  26. #26
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    If the DT rear hubs use the 10mm RWS thru axle, it can likely be cinched down tight enough so that there's no possibility for movement to chew into the dropout. I've got the DT Swiss RWS thru axle on the 240S hub on the Edge Composite wheels on my Altitude and it is super snug and stiff.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric
    Love the paint jobs, but please, PLEASE somebody tell me the MSL will be available in a color that I go ape on with orange ano parts. 8-)
    Black and orange go together nicely.
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  28. #28
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    Question: Why the topswing front mech? Is it because of clearance to the pivoting chainstays?

    This configuration seems like a real mudcatcher to me. Would have liked to see a direct mount downswing mech!
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  29. #29
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    The front e-type mech is attached directly to the chainstay. The cable stop is on the swingarm. Nice granny ring chain keeper integrated there.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2011 Element RSL / MSL FAQ's-element70msl_details_04.jpg  

    2011 Element RSL / MSL FAQ's-element-bike_festival_riva_rocky_mountain5.jpg  

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  30. #30
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    As others have stated the bike is dead sexy!

    Quick question and an important one "for me". Will the new Element have a "higher" bottom bracket than the current version?

  31. #31
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    geometry data, the current 100mm Element has a 20mm BB drop.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2011 Element RSL / MSL FAQ's-element_2011_geometriedaten.gif  

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMB-PM
    3 months of North Shore abuse under Peteypete:
    ..Wow if it can support Pierre's hackness and his hugeness AND his elephant sized ankles, it will never break

  33. #33
    ccm
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    isn't the 20 to 13.5mm difference caused purely by having a longer fork?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    If the DT rear hubs use the 10mm RWS thru axle, it can likely be cinched down tight enough so that there's no possibility for movement to chew into the dropout. I've got the DT Swiss RWS thru axle on the 240S hub on the Edge Composite wheels on my Altitude and it is super snug and stiff.

    And heavy...

    Replacable dropouts are common, easy and cheap...

    Okay maybe Rocky will supply new seatstays easy and cheap ooops I doubt it.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    And heavy...

    Replacable dropouts are common, easy and cheap....
    And heavy, prone to vibration, and complicated.

    Sorry Jeff, I hear you, you want a wear surface for your QR. But our testing has shown our design to be durable under normal conditions.

    We would never have hit our sub 2kg weight target w. Fox RP23 Hi Volume shock, and pivots, with replaceable dropouts. It's a bit early for 2011 bikes, but I can't off the top of my head find a lighter 120mm frame + shock? Anyone know?
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMB-PM
    And heavy, prone to vibration, and complicated.

    Sorry Jeff, I hear you, you want a wear surface for your QR. But our testing has shown our design to be durable under normal conditions.

    We would never have hit our sub 2kg weight target w. Fox RP23 Hi Volume shock, and pivots, with replaceable dropouts. It's a bit early for 2011 bikes, but I can't off the top of my head find a lighter 120mm frame + shock? Anyone know?

    I understand...

    The problem is weight vs endurance.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    And heavy...
    Not so bad, a 240S CL rear hub with a 10mm RWS axle is 321gms and the 240S CL QR rear hub is 255gms + 48gms for a 5mm RWS rear skewer, for a total of 303gms. If you used an XTR rear QR skewer it would be 15gms heavier. That's a worthwhile weight penalty on an FS bike to get a super solid rear wheel retention system. The actual 10mm RWS thru axle skewer itself is only 63gms since it's aluminium.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    The front e-type mech is attached directly to the chainstay. The cable stop is on the swingarm. Nice granny ring chain keeper integrated there.
    I know. But it doesn't answer my question
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  39. #39
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    I'd bet it was a combination of saving weight and clearance issues with the direct mount style FD and the seat stay linkage on the smaller frame sizes. Maybe combined with the need to have a lump on the back of that curvy seat tube to locate the direct mount FD.

    The e-type XTR FD is 142gms with the alloy plate, so likely less than 120gms with the BB plate removed.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    I understand...

    The problem is weight vs endurance.

    I'm totally confused by the "wearing out dropouts" concept.... You're aware that the hangers are replaceable, right? The marks on my frame are just indents from the skewer/hub knurling. There is no loss of material.

    I have ridden the S**T out of this bike this winter on the Shore - way beyond its intended use and I've had absolutely no issues. The bike is a champ.

  41. #41
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    A few people have had wear issues in the rear dropouts of old style Slayers and the Element/Instincts caused by some movement of the rear hub and axle in the dropout.

    Slayer dropout issue
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by peteypete
    I'm totally confused by the "wearing out dropouts" concept.... You're aware that the hangers are replaceable, right? The marks on my frame are just indents from the skewer/hub knurling. There is no loss of material. There will be eventually

    I have ridden the S**T out of this bike this winter on the Shore - way beyond its intended use and I've had absolutely no issues. The bike is a champ.
    Maybe but how long do you ride anyone bike? 3 months is not a 1.5 years, hey maybe your just smoother and better than me.


    Sorry the hanger is not the issue on an 2005 element...it is the inside of the dropouts..that wears the axle eventually starts to move around inside the dropout, especially after a drop and then say standing and hammering.

    The bike maybe a champ but wearing out a dropout in a 1 and half does happen.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    Not so bad, a 240S CL rear hub with a 10mm RWS axle is 321gms and the 240S CL QR rear hub is 255gms + 48gms for a 5mm RWS rear skewer, for a total of 303gms. If you used an XTR rear QR skewer it would be 15gms heavier. That's a worthwhile weight penalty on an FS bike to get a super solid rear wheel retention system. The actual 10mm RWS thru axle skewer itself is only 63gms since it's aluminium.

    So your adding weight....

    When all that is neccessary is a small Ti block captured like a RD hanger added weight oh 5 grams....

  44. #44
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    +18gms on the hub/axle versus having to try to bond something into the composite mold sure seems much easier.

    Even if you switch to the DT RWS 5mm rear QR, it has a much more solid grip than a Shimano QR and weighs a few grams less.
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  45. #45
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  46. #46
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    That's the one...

    Also available from Race Face, FSA and Truvativ.
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  47. #47
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    So who's got the best BB-91 bearing set of those.... (off the record, no one's listening)
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  48. #48
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    I have no comparison because I have not run the Truvativ, FSA or Race Face, but the Shimano BB 91 on the Vertex 29 spins so much more freely than the standard XTR external BB that was on my Altitude. I spin the cranks backwards in the stand and they spin 2 to 2.5 times around, similar to the ceramic BB on my road bike. I ran them all winter long and no signs of slowing down.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    So who's got the best BB-91 bearing set of those.... (off the record, no one's listening)
    HA, already ordering parts for your new Element frame, Rockyuphill?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by peteypete
    HA, already ordering parts for your new Element frame, Rockyuphill?
    Yep, just ordered the Park insertion and removal tools for the BB-91. Lining up the Shimano parts before the HST bumps the price up 7%.

    ...and just ordered up a bottom bracket and e-type 9 speed XTR FD.
    Last edited by rockyuphill; 05-21-2010 at 07:02 PM.
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