What would YOU do if your buddy is about to die?
How many of you have been on the scene of a nasty rider down and there is no one around that really knows proper proceedure - what would YOU do???!!!
Would you know what to do if someone you want to help (usually your buddy) is laying there on the ground. If you are lucky, they are concious and maybe can tell you what is wrong.
What if they are unconcious? That can be extremely scary. I've come upon that twice in the last couple years. In one horrific situation, the guy lived, in the other situation much less dramatic one of the two guys died. To this day I wondered if I could have done things differently isf i maybe had some basic training.
I recently went through a Wilderness First Responder course. I can now say that I would definitely handle both situations differently. Although the course I took was kinda advanced (9 days) you can also do a 2-3 day Wilderness First Aid class that could also easily SAVE A LIFE.
You can check out wilderness/outdoor first aid stuff here: http://www.nols.edu/wmi/courses/wildfirstaid.shtml
If you don't want to take a class I highly recommend this little book that will fit in your Camelback: Backcoutry First Aid by Buck Tilton. It costs about $5. If you read this book and remember even the first couple things you could save a life.
I cannot tell you how empowering taking a class is. At least I will know the next time I come upon a situation that I DID SOMETHING to help.
We are all out there in the elements doing our beloved MT biking, we all get injuries. In case of severe injuries a little information might make the difference between life and death! Like I said, if nothing else get that little book with BIG information, read it and keep it with you!
You don't save a life...
You just provide aid and security...
Totally disagree! My buddy saved his brother-in-law's life. (Period) There was no 'just providing aid and security' about it. He is humble.........I, I witnessed it and he did 'save a life'.
Originally Posted by jeffscott
Kudos to the info on training. Asset to mtbr.com.
Great so next time your buddy perforns the same actions, and the person dies..
Then I guess he was just providing aid and secruity.
Take the training, lose the arrogance you will become a much better first responder in the process.
I did a WFA course many years ago, and it was very useful and a complete eye-opener. Very different from urban-based first aid courses too. I did end up using the knowledge a couple of years later, hiking in Patagonia. I didn't save a life, but I saved someone a lot of pain and mental anguish, when two dozen other people without training had spent half an hour milling about cluelessly.
WFA/WFR courses are a great idea!
Since when did the phrase "invest in" come to mean the same as "buy"?
nothing personal jeff, but thats a total, absolute, unequivocal, irrefutable, reeking, festering, steaming pile of bovine excrement.
You don't save a life...
You just provide aid and security...
maybe YOU dont/wont save a life, either because you lack the training or simply dont want to get involved, but lots of other people with formal and informal training do save lives day in and day out.
back in '97 before i got into nursing i saved a chick's life that had overdosed on cocaine. her heart had completely stopped, she wasnt breathing, and i perfomed cpr and mouth to mouth on her until her heart started and she started breathing on her own again. she is alive today because of my actions. she was clinically dead and blue when i got to her and she was not buried back in '97 because i rendered aid. so yes, i did save a life.
and it is not arrogant to say "i saved that persons life" when they are alive as a direct result of your actions, but it is arrogant to think all lives can be saved. its arrogant to not do your best when working on them because you dont think they'll make it anyway or for any other reason. you do your best and you win some and lose some.
as a nurse i have saved peoples lives, and i have had people die in my arms. you win some and you lose some, but you do your very best each and every time so that when you do lose someone it cant be said that you didnt do everything in your power. youre able to walk away knowing that you did your best and gave them the very best chance at survival that you could.
what i think is pathetic is that more people do not even know basic first aid, so when they encounter an accident victim/situation they just stand there impotent and inactive and paralyzed with fear while someone is hurting and/or dying. so dont take any kind of first aid training and live with the knowledge that you will be predominately ineffective should you encounter someone that needs first aid. hopefully (for your sake and the victims) you will never encounter a situation that requires immediate critical care. better to take the class and never need to use the skill than to live with "that person is dead because of me".
kudos to cactus jack for providing info on the training. everyone should go through it, cuz you just never know when you might be able to be the difference between someone living and dying. i cant imagine being a parent without knowing some advanced first aid. for that matter, i cant imagine any responsible individual not knowing at least basic first aid. heck, call your local red cross. they offer free and low cost basic first aid and cpr courses. the life you save could be someone you love.
"Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber
I have the training,
I have used the training,
Go get the training...
Unfortunately I have seen the results of arrogance as well.
Would he have died?
Case in point:
Originally Posted by jeffscott
On a group road ride (the Saturday morning “racer ride”) we came up on a rider that had just been hit by a DUI driver (yup, a DUI at 10am) and flung off the road, crumpled up, upside down in the brush in a ditch some 35 feet away, unconscious and not able to breathe.
The reason he was not able to breathe was because of his body position, an upside down "L" chin to chest legs over the top tangled in the brush.
Me and a buddy rushed down and were on scene approx 1 minute after the impact. The other bystanders were doing NOTHING. I could see that although unconscious he was trying to breathe, but could not due to his body position. I had to ARGUE with the bystanders to help me "un-crumple" him enough so he could breathe.
Everyone is so paranoid about spine injury they did not want to move him. If he cannot breathe, anything else is a moot point eh?
That is why in training #1: AIRWAY #2: BREATHING.
Had I not persuaded my comrades to help him breathe would he have died? I do not know, the paramedics showed up in about 12 minutes. The brain starts to die in 4 minutes.
In the end I learned that although he had sustained multiple fractures, dislocated shoulder, broken pelvis etc and that he lived.
Did this relatively SIMPLE act save his life? I do not know. The thing is at the time I had NO training, only a sense that BREATHING was somewhat important to ones immediate future. If had already had some training I would not have hesitated, but went right into what needed to be done.
Was I not being humble enough when I said “YOU COULD SAVE A LIFE”? I did not think I had mentioned the importance of ego into my original post?
Even if what you say is true, in a particular situation at least you know that you did what you can do, which is directly based on your level of TRAINING.
Double-metric mtb man
Having the skills is great....practicing them so you don't "brain fart" when you need to use them is something else. Knowing your limits and doing your best is another thing entirely.
I've been a volunteer first responder for a good number of years....my training is done throughout the year and in bigger re-certs on a regular basis. I use my skills on a regular basis. I may be able to put forward my skills, experience and training to help, but I know I am part of a team that saves lives. I am not the be all and end all.
I have come across a lot of people with a lot more training than I have who, because of their training and relative lack of experience, had a "god complex." Even those who have MD after their name are not immune...if they don't have a trauma room around them, some of them are worthless.
I can understand where both sides of the "save a life" bit come from. Yes, it is very important to take the training and have the skills to help....but it is also important to know that if someone is badly enough hurt that you need to "save their life" then you will be but one link in the chain that will save them. After all, you can do CPR until you pass out, but without medical help that person is dead. Likewise, if you're not there to start things off and it'll take 10 min for the ambulance, that person is just as dead.
All things in moderation and perspective
While Jeff's statement and point may seem a little crass, it would not surprise me if he is paramedic. One of the first things you are told is that you are "not saving a life", rather, providing aid and security until trained (and I'm not talking about a first aid class graduate) trauma units arrive.
While he may be misunderstood, we can all agree that he means well.
something really important to do
the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days
I'd take all the cash out of his wallet so the ambulance guys don't get it.
We all get it in the end.
Kharma brother.... Kharma.
Originally Posted by Dwight Moody
Originally Posted by NDD
Safety and first-aid training is always a good thing in my book.