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  1. #1
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    What is the best painkiller?

    Prescription or over-the-counter. For broken bones and general broken body parts?

    What have you tried and what has worked best for you?

    fc

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    Why do you ask this question? Have you been injured? If so, and your pain is severe enough to warrant this kind of medication, seek treatment please.

    There's lots of good ones. Obviously prescription is the best.
    Fentanyl, Morphine are very good analgesics but good luck getting it.
    OTC- I would say Tylenol PM because it knocks you out too.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tedman
    Why do you ask this question? Have you been injured? If so, and your pain is severe enough to warrant this kind of medication, seek treatment please.

    There's lots of good ones. Obviously prescription is the best.
    Fentanyl, Morphine are very good analgesics but good luck getting it.
    OTC- I would say Tylenol PM because it knocks you out too.
    I'm only asking to listen to people's experiences and stimulate discussion. I think having a painkiller preference or knowledge when talking to the doctor is useful. Otherwise, you have zero control/input on what they give you.

    I used to always have prescription Motrin 800s handy for all my bumps and bruises. But then, I found out those 500 count Motrin 200s at Costco are the same thing. Just take 4!

    I've had Vicodin prescribed to me a couple times but I think it is the devil! I had nightmares, constipation and a massive headache when I went off it after a week.

    And then I had Flexoril given to me for a broken hand and I was basically asleep for two days. Never again!

    fc

  4. #4
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    IBU 800's, beer and MJ
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Ridiculous. This is between a patient and a physician, not the internet and an individual.

    However, it will be fun to see this thread develop, then send it out to some forums where physicians and pharmacists collaborate for the lulz.

  6. #6
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    Ice

    Not sure about putting it on broken bones but for aches and pains it can't be beat. It's cheap, won't tear up your stomach, but it will get the inflammation down.

  7. #7
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    They gave me Narco for my broken leg.....did it help......it made me sleepy. So I guess it worked, I felt no pain while I was asleep.
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    800mg Ibuprofens, ice, compression and rest worked wonders on cutting the swelling and pain after each of my 4 knee surgeries.

    I did get a bunch of Tramadols for days when I'm out backpacking and push my messed up knee way the hell too hard. They work and knock the pain down but the side effects ain't fun and i still have most of them.
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    I don't take stuff often but when I had my shoulder surgery it was extremely painful for several weeks afterward so Percocet became my best friend. I did limit my self to one per day in the evening as I did not want to get in over my head using them. That is the strongest pain killer I have ever used. I have a huge bottle of Darvocet that I was given for my shoulder before the surgery but it didn't touch the pain so I never took any.

  10. #10
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    A good girlfriend that can take your mind off the pain and smoking a fatty.

  11. #11
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    nothing beats heroin
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColorVoyeur
    A good girlfriend that can take your mind off the pain and smoking a fatty.
    eww

    Honestly... ahh I give up

  13. #13
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    hmm...i have terrific luck with vicodin/vicoprofen, and flexoril. soma is a phenomenal muscle relaxant, but if the flexoril knocks you down, you'd be out for a week on soma. i get zero relief from oxycodone-based painkillers like percocet, et al; they just make me itchy. if you're looking for narcos, maybe try that route?

    beyond ibuprofen, i take a nice, non-narcotic painkiller/extremely mild muscle relaxant called ultram. it's a great in-between. takes more of the edge off than plain old advil/motrin, but isn't a heavy hitter like narcotics. i'm told it can affect people who are sensitive to codeine adversely, however. i'm not (codeine is in one of my migraine meds), so i can't advise here.

    talk to your doc to avoid trouble, be monitored, and avoid drug interactions. and that's today's helpful tip from your friendly, neighborhood armchair physician. (really i have a chronic pain disorder and break myself off on the regular.)

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    I used to pop 800mg motrins until my doc strongly advised against it, saying that it was bad for the kidneys and liver to take that much. 600 mg / dosage was the most he was willing to prescribe me.

    And, of course, whenever you mix alcohol with known liver/kidney toxins like Tylenol and ibuprofen, you are increasing the toxicity of those toxins. So, that’s something to be at least somewhat mindful of.

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    oxycontin and fentanyl work great.. but if you go into a hospital asking for either, theres a pretty good chance you'll get marked as a drug-seeker. extremely dangerous, highly addictive drugs, but they work (maybe too well).

    opiates all work pretty much the same. some are just stronger and harder hitting than others. its not really the thing you have much position to be asking for when you're seriously injured, they're going to give you what they feel is necessary.

    like someone said, the ibuprofen 800's you get from the hospital are identical to the 200's you get at the drug store for cheap. not even worth filling the prescription. its much less toxic than acetaminophen.

    soma works amazing for muscle strain or pulled backs. its safe enough that most doctors will shell you out a bottle of it pretty much on demand. its very mildly addictive, but you'd need to be taking them multiple times a day for months before its a problem (unlike something like oxycontin, you'll have withdrawal symptoms within a week of daily use).

    i think its more a matter of determining how much poison you're really willing to swallow versus what works best. popping an oxy sure works better than a couple motrins, but if you can manage with motrins you're better off!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot
    like someone said, the ibuprofen 800's you get from the hospital are identical to the 200's you get at the drug store for cheap. not even worth filling the prescription. its much less toxic than acetaminophen.
    huh?
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  17. #17
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    pcp


    problem solved!
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    huh?
    ? tylenol is terrible for you. ibuprofen less so.

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    The hysterics in this thread. I will be taking the advice dispensed here, though. Ultram sounds promising, so I will tell my doctor to prescribe it to me as a muscle relaxant.

  20. #20
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    its not a muscle relaxant. its a weird pseudo opiate. http://www.drugs.com/ultram.html

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    That sucks...

    Once in a while, I get a bad shoulder and neck pain, and lots of tightness there. I try to work it out, but it doesn't work. What should I tell my doctor to prescribe for me? Norco? I read about something called Neurontin on the internet, and I think I might tell my physician to prescribe it.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot
    ? tylenol is terrible for you. ibuprofen less so.
    and you say that because....?
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    That sucks...

    Once in a while, I get a bad shoulder and neck pain, and lots of tightness there. I try to work it out, but it doesn't work. What should I tell my doctor to prescribe for me? Norco? I read about something called Neurontin on the internet, and I think I might tell my physician to prescribe it.
    LOL

    Do what many of my patients do....request 2 weeks off from work, a handicapped parking pass, and 30 tabs of percocet
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    I heard about this drug called cefpodoxtriaxametazalonamine and that if taken in too high quantities, it can be very addictive, but it is supposed to have relaxing and analgesic effects. What does the forum suggest?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    I heard about this drug called cefpodoxtriaxametazalonamine and that if taken in too high quantities, it can be very addictive, but it is supposed to have relaxing and analgesic effects. What does the forum suggest?
    Is it safe to take with alcohol?
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

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    I don't know. I assume in moderation, however I'd like the forum's opinions on this stuff.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    I don't know. I assume in moderation, however I'd like the forum's opinions on this stuff.
    Good call. It sounds safer than tylenol
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

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    tylenol is perfectly safe, 3.9 grams and above, served with an N-AcC chaser to wash it down.

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    Pain Research?

    Going by the responses in this thread, what works for some does not work for others.
    I had a Pharm student training w/me for a long time. He said:
    Asprin is better than the NSAID if your stomach can handle it.
    What is addictive for some is a very unpleasant side effect for others.
    Many very straight people have developed a serious "Jones" pain killer addiction.
    I judge them not. Pain management is serious business. I have had more than most.

    I go to Chiro and Acupuncture weekly, CMT monthly.
    I hang upside down every morning "Inversion" and try to stretch daily.
    I am on my 5th shoulder injury. This from an OTH last Oct. I am getting really tired of therapy and rehab workouts, but what choice do I have! LOL

    R

  30. #30
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    Honestly... ahh I give up

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois
    I'm only asking to listen to people's experiences and stimulate discussion. I think having a painkiller preference or knowledge when talking to the doctor is useful. Otherwise, you have zero control/input on what they give you.

    I used to always have prescription Motrin 800s handy for all my bumps and bruises. But then, I found out those 500 count Motrin 200s at Costco are the same thing. Just take 4!

    I've had Vicodin prescribed to me a couple times but I think it is the devil! I had nightmares, constipation and a massive headache when I went off it after a week.

    And then I had Flexoril given to me for a broken hand and I was basically asleep for two days. Never again!

    fc
    just ask your doc for some oxycontins to keep around the house for "pain"

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    and you say that because....?
    buncha foil hat weirdos told me.

    http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/Cons.../ucm168830.htm

    .. or a committee appointed to advise on liver damage caused by it.. but potato-patato.

  33. #33
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    For some aches hard to beat the opiates, usually vicodin for my longer term storage from multiple dental issues (usually the acetaminophen rather than ibuprofen marriage from what I get prescribed, tho).

    Silly calling stuff like Motrin anything more than ibuprofen, or any of the other brand names for ibuprofen, acetaminophen or aspiring or common generic branded combinations (always loved the Excedrin--good ol' aspirin, acetaminophen plus caffeine but so mysterious in the commercial campaign).
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikinfoolferlife
    (always loved the Excedrin--good ol' aspirin, acetaminophen plus caffeine but so mysterious in the commercial campaign).
    "it get's the head out"? or something like that?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  35. #35
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    I recommend Anicin....you need a delorean to go back to the 80's to get it though

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampDonkeyDisco
    I recommend Anicin....you need a delorean to go back to the 80's to get it though
    Oh yeah, those guys too! Good ol' caffeine combined with your favorite pain killer...but it's still out there, no need for the DeLorean (altho why not use one if you've got one).

    The Excedrin campaign I think was more along the lines of "pain relief-fast" or something and got in trouble for specifying how fast at one point, too.
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    IBU 800's, beer and MJ
    I up you IBU 1600's or Tramatal.
    Ragley Blue Pig

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    I think someone already mentioned this but pain killers work different for different people..

    I found, after several different surgeries that (for me):

    1. Morphine does absolutely nothing for me to control pain. It just makes my blood pressure drop, my heart race, I get cold and clammy, then I puke all over the place. Not fun when you are in intense pain from surgery.
    2. Vicodin does almost nothing for my pain and gives me intense headaches and even worse constipation.
    3. Percocet/Percodin or Darvocet is the only thing I found that works for me for post-op levels of pain and I had no real side-effects. Personally, I had no problems discontinuing use when it was no longer needed; however, I can see how it can easily become addicting for others with the almost euphoric rush that comes with its' use. Just be careful with it and talk to your doc about it.

    4. For everything else (bumps and bruises) good 'ol ibuprofen does the trick. Stick to the instructions as, just like acetaminophen, ibuprofen it is toxic to the liver in large quantities.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot
    buncha foil hat weirdos told me.

    http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/Cons.../ucm168830.htm

    .. or a committee appointed to advise on liver damage caused by it.. but potato-patato.
    and ibuprofen, like all nsaids, carries a black box warning for heart attack, stroke, and potentially fatal GI bleeding

    http://blackboxrx.com/app/display.php?id=318

    Tylenol, in the recommended doses of <4g/day, is considered safer than NSAIDs by just about everyone. Even the tin foil hat weirdos agree.
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  40. #40
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    Sex! always stops the PAIN.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    I heard about this drug called cefpodoxtriaxametazalonamine and that if taken in too high quantities, it can be very addictive, but it is supposed to have relaxing and analgesic effects. What does the forum suggest?
    cefpodoxtriaxametazalonamine?
    This is a joke, right?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    cefpodoxtriaxametazalonamine?
    This is a joke, right?
    I've seen crazier muti-med combos from some of my patients who get their meds OTC south of the border
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

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    That's no joke, Senor.

    Anyhow, does the forum have anymore medications they can throw out there that might work for me? I was thinking Baclofen or something like Propafenone might be the big ticket.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    That's no joke, Senor.

    Anyhow, does the forum have anymore medications they can throw out there that might work for me? I was thinking Baclofen or something like Propafenone might be the big ticket.
    A seconal/zolpidem cocktail always takes the edge off
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

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    I've had great luck trying that with a K-dur Smoothie. About 50 +Vanilla Ice Cream and some Root Beer. Mmmmmm...

    Also, a good, effective painkiller is to get benzonatate, and cut the perls open and suck the benzonatate juice right out of them. Won't taste great, but that takes care of lots of things.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    That's no joke, Senor.
    Not one hit on google or bing. Not one.
    If its real, its spelled differently, or is very very very top secret.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Not one hit on google or bing. Not one.
    If its real, its spelled differently, or is very very very top secret.
    I once saw you boast about doing more drugs than anyone else on this forum... and now a little painkiller thread has you all discombobulated? I'm amused.

    Onto the topic though... yeah it varies a lot from person to person. The one universal truth is that you gotta pay to play. The amount of pain relief is usually proportional to the loss of mental/motor function.

    I do like Aleve for inflammation. Note that it is not an analgesic, only an anti-inflammatory, so your treating the cause not the symptom. You might not even notice you're taking it for a day or two but it's actually helping you heal. The lower doses make it easier on the tummy than ibuprophen.

    I've broken a collar bone, wrist, hand, thumb, and my leg in 4 places which required surgery and a titanium rod and did them all with zero pain meds. Unless you've got cancer or your vertebrae fused together or some long term debilitating injury there's just no excuse for begging your doc for opiates. OH BOOHOO I FELL OFF MY BIKE GIVE ME DRUGS!!! F@cking p@ssies.
    Hey Butthead, are we gonna die? - Beavis

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    I once saw you boast about doing more drugs than anyone else on this forum... and now a little painkiller thread has you all discombobulated? I'm amused.
    Really? I think you have me confused with someone else.


    I do like Aleve for inflammation. Note that it is not an analgesic, only an anti-inflammatory, so your treating the cause not the symptom. You might not even notice you're taking it for a day or two but it's actually helping you heal. The lower doses make it easier on the tummy than ibuprophen.
    I like Aleve as well. I disagree that it is not an analgesic. Analgesic just means painkiller. Its anti-inflammatory properties is one way it achieves it's analgesia.
    To be more technical, inhibition of prostaglandin synthesis reduces inflammation and also has a separate effect on reducing pain directly.

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    I am ridic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    Ridiculous. This is between a patient and a physician, not the internet and an individual.
    Hardly ridiculous. Makes me actually think I know who you are...someone training to be in the medical establishment.

    An educated consumer is every physician's worst nightmare in the wonderful world of western meds.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    Really? I think you have me confused with someone else.




    I like Aleve as well. I disagree that it is not an analgesic. Analgesic just means painkiller. Its anti-inflammatory properties is one way it achieves it's analgesia.
    To be more technical, inhibition of prostaglandin synthesis reduces inflammation and also has a separate effect on reducing pain directly.
    If I did confuse you with someone else I apologize. It was in a thread about Safety Breaks which unfortunately expired in the recycle bin. As for my comment on analgesics, I was under the impression that an analgesic had a specific neurological mechanism. If I have an infection causing pain, does the antibiotic I take to cure the infection count as an analgesic?
    Hey Butthead, are we gonna die? - Beavis

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero
    An educated consumer is every physician's worst nightmare in the wonderful world of western meds.
    I think patient education is extremely important. However, unfortunately an "educated" consumer is sometimes their OWN worst nightmare in the wonderful world of western meds.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

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    Worst nightmare for a patient: being turned away by every physician they see because they think they know more than the physician, making therapy, compliance, and other treatments impossible and a liability.

    Consumer=/= patient

    Unfortunately, I've seen it enough on several fronts, and in no way do I defend physicians, where applicable, but there's a difference between a patient getting information, setting aside their inferiority complex enough to ask the physician what they're saying and how they can find out more, and a person that acts like they're a consumer and the physician is in the business of screwing them over, so they have to go in, well-read from info on the internet, acting like they know about what is going on, when, in reality, they don't even have the molecular, biochemical, physiologic, nor pathological basis of disease to be able to understand fully, and worse, not knowing what they don't know, yet TELLING the physician what to do. That is a good way to be dropped from healthcare altogether, which I have seen as well. The internet is not a good replacement for medical school, as this thread is displaying as well.

    The best thing for a physician, contrary to belief, is a patient that wants to know and understand things being done to them and why. The patient themself is often the best tool of therapy for the practitioner. An educated patient is more likely to comply with therapy, be able to describe symptomology and effects, and relay their needs. This is contrary to the thought that an educated consumer is a physician's enemy. It simply doesn't make sense. When it becomes a fake powerstruggle or consumer action at every visit, it only serves to damage the quality of care the patient can receive, not the physician. If the physician is bad enough to warrant such a feeling, then change.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    If I did confuse you with someone else I apologize. It was in a thread about Safety Breaks which unfortunately expired in the recycle bin.
    It wasn't me. No problem.

    As for my comment on analgesics, I was under the impression that an analgesic had a specific neurological mechanism. If I have an infection causing pain, does the antibiotic I take to cure the infection count as an analgesic?
    That's an interesting twist. An analgesic I believe just means pain killer and doesn't refer to mechanism. Non-steroidal anti inflamatory drugs like Ibuprofen and Aleve (NSAIDS), are classified as analgesics, and obviously, also as anti-inflammatory.

    Your anti-biotic question is interesting, but I would presume it comes down to
    the general or specific nature of pain relief. Analgesics usually work to reduce pain, regardless of cause, although some work better on certain types of pain than others. Anti-biotics and antacids, for example, would not work on pain in general, but would work on fixing a specific condition that causes a specific pain.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve
    It wasn't me. No problem.

    That's an interesting twist. An analgesic I believe just means pain killer and doesn't refer to mechanism. Non-steroidal anti inflamatory drugs like Ibuprofen and Aleve (NSAIDS), are classified as analgesics, and obviously, also as anti-inflammatory.

    Your anti-biotic question is interesting, but I would presume it comes down to
    the general or specific nature of pain relief. Analgesics usually work to reduce pain, regardless of cause, although some work better on certain types of pain than others. Anti-biotics and antacids, for example, would not work on pain in general, but would work on fixing a specific condition that causes a specific pain.
    I just want to apologize again. I actually located the original thread and it was not you, but the offender did have a mastiff/staffordshire mix for the avatar. Mind like a dog you know and I got the two beauties confused.

    I'm not a doc or a biochemist but this thread is going to give me some reading to do. I was definitely under the impression that drugs were classified based on mechanism. I know that opiates only "block pain receptors" and do nothing for inflammation, etc.
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogbrain
    I just want to apologize again. I actually located the original thread and it was not you, but the offender did have a mastiff/staffordshire mix for the avatar. Mind like a dog you know and I got the two beauties confused.

    I'm not a doc or a biochemist but this thread is going to give me some reading to do. I was definitely under the impression that drugs were classified based on mechanism. I know that opiates only "block pain receptors" and do nothing for inflammation, etc.
    Opiates are a specific class of drug, whereas analgesic is just a general name for painkiller, which a lot of types of drugs fall under.

    An- without
    algos - pain

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analgesic

  57. #57
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    Marijuana best pain killer ever

  58. #58
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    If you live near Canada, go get some over the counter aspirin or Tylenol. Either way it can be obtained with codiene in it. Mixed with a small amount of caffiene, it works well. I used these for many years until I got my back fused. I had no trouble quitting the pills once the pain was mitigated. The normal name for these guys are A, C and C. An inexpensive and effective pain reducer.

    If you live on the edge, down some beers fast with the pills.

    Pot didn't reduce my pain at all, but of course it helped me have a great appetite for Doritos.

    Disclaimer, I am definitely not a doctor.
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    *backs quietly out of thread with pharmacist license intact*

    Sound advise - go to your doctor and explain your pain (sharp, dull, radiating, local, burning, stabbing, etc). He or she went to school for eternity, then tortured themselves at endless residencies all in order provide you with the best care possible. Go to your doctor and ask for Soma, tramadol, etc., b/c it was recommended on an internet forum, and you have already pigeonholed yourself as someone with an agenda.

    More importantly, you need to realize that everyone in the medical community operates according to protocol. Whether you have diabetes, a herniated disc, or indigestion, there are standards of practice as to what is prescribed, in what order, for how long, etc.

    One promise that I can make you is that any recommendations you receive here or virtually anywhere else on the internet will not come from someone qualified to offer them.

  60. #60
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    Nuprin...little, yellow, different...

  61. #61
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    I had Oxycontin but be careful with it.

    Also these 800mg Ibuprofen they're like horse pills but they relax you and stop swelling.

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  62. #62
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    I like Relefen/Nubematone though my doctor doesnt like to give it. I have back pain and this stuff is pretty good at knocking out the inflamation.


    Another trick is to take ibuprofen and then an hour later take Tylenol 8hr. There both work differently, Ibunprofen on the injury and Tylenol on the brain. So its a two way stop.

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    I finally got a chance to experiment with many different painkillers this week due to my injury. The morphine was great for my pain and attitude, but it lead to projectile vomiting and I am terrified of IVs. Every time they gave me a shot of it in my IV, I freaked out when I felt it going into my arm--I'm also really sensitive and it felt like it was burning my vein. Percocet was great for the pain, but it made me very nauseous and dizzy, and eventually led to me waking up in the middle of the night unable to breathe at all and with heart palpitations, so there went that stuff. Vicodin just makes me really really hungover. I can't take ibu due to a rare reaction, so I settled with Aleve, which has been working very nicely, no side effects. I am the queen of side effects, so I prefer not to take anything. The pain has really gone down. I am a huge fan of acupuncture, my dog gets acu for his arthritis and it has made him into a puppy again. So, I guess if I ever have long term pain, I'd look into acupuncture.

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    Forgetting ICE?

    I have stuck w/RICE for many years. Most sports stores stock some kind of "Gel ice packs". They freeze up real cold, but they stay soft to mold around the injured area.
    I buy mine by the case. LOL Some of us can say that there are more ice packs than food in our freezer.
    I go to sleep w/pack under my lower back. On bad days I start out w/ice for a few min before I get up. JMHO

    R

  65. #65
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    Light one of these up and all your pain will be gone!
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    Dilaudid

    I saw my neurologist on Friday. I told him I was in a bunch of pain, but I stopped taking percocet and vicodin because I couldn't stand the vomiting, dizziness, feeling like I was going to die, etc. So, he prescribed Dilaudid to me. I didn't know what it was, but I looked it up when I got home. Great, another opiate. I was in tremendous pain that night, so I gave it a whirl. It did amazing things for me--NO pain, helped me sleep, no grogginess, nausea, or any other side effects. I'm sure it's going to kill me somehow anyways, but at least it's helping out for now

  67. #67
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    Aleve works for me.Is the genric stuff as good?

  68. #68
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    for soremuscles i find 1mg of xanax helps me relaxand fall asleep and stay loose while i sleep soi wake up not sore ( still druggie an tired from the meds but not hurting)

    cyclobenzaprine, works the best for me as a muscle relaxer , probably too well, it makes me really lazy and not wanna move.

    OTC im a fan of ibuprofen, and a lil home remedy, is one tea spoon of bakin soda in a glass of water

    for broken bones, and severe injuries, is a toss up, between oxycodone dulls the pain the most, but its short lived and the pain is more obvious onceit comes back, vicodin, messes with a head a lil more (welcomed side effect) it doesnt dull the pain as well oxy but lasts a lil longer and i dont get itchy once it wears off, though it doesnt dull the pain as much, the extra head games for mehelp me forget about my injury , that is until i go to move it
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