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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiNSA
    I feel much better wearing a brace... I am on 2.5 weeks and have not ridden yet.. I have this brace that wraps around both shoulders and velcros in the back. First I have my woman wrap the shoulder and diagonal across my chest. I take off the brace at night after work and put it on in the morning. Seems to have helped... I feel much mroe invincible with it on.l I can see the strength slowly returning. I ahve rasied my hand up twice since the accident.. once yesterday and once 5 minutes ago.. Couldnt even think about doing that last week. Id say wear the brace to you have full strength.. I definately dont at 2.5 weeks but am feeling like I would like to try riding the bike for 10 miles or so.... but at the same time in the middle of the day' when it aches I can easily realise its too soon to try to ride. I would hate to ride ten miles and be stranded in pain or roll back the clock on the healing process..
    Wearing your brace is good for awhile (I was in what I'd call a sling) but PT, range of motion is your friend. At some point real soon you need to start working your arm through its normal range of motion so your shoulder doesn't freeze up. Use it or lose it, they say.

    Your injury is much worse than my shoulder was/is so others can give you hints about how soon and what kinds of ROM movements you should be doing. Just don't immobilize your shoulder for too long a period. Forget about riding for now.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  2. #102
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    Like your wells quote btw... I use that in my class whe teaching debate basics....

    I can raise my hand over my head real slowly... I know this is stupid but.. I am thinking Idont ride my bike with my arms raised

    I am feeling almost confident enough that I am internally debating to ride or not..
    I ride about 80-90 km a day going to classes..
    I knoe I cant do that now... but was thinking 26 km in 13 km splits...

    The thing is half of my route is through peasant villages in China.... I am clearly aware that even in my safety zone I can srew up my body for the rest of my life as what got me hear was going over the bars completely unexpected from an unseen speedbumpp... I mean who the hell would have thought.

    The biggest issue to me riding right now is I am thinking I should buy medical insurence as I have two children and one on the way. I naever thought I would get hurt on a bicycle... but all y iuds depend on me and yeah the streets i china are dangerous but I got taken out by a spedbump on a street with no traffic... Freak accidents I guess can happen. I mean going down ski slopes in Germany or coming down out of the mountains in colorado 50 mph on a bike thats too small doesnt kill me... it is the speed bump going 14 kph...

    SO I guess I am going to have to get insurance.. But my bike is chained to my office desk and it is soooooooooo tempting... I seem to get fatter each day and cant stop drinking beer... I want to ride so bad.

  3. #103
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    Grade 3 separation

    I suffered a grade 3 (left side) in a snowboarding accident in early Dec. 2009. Now Feb. 2010, I have regained motion, and strength seems to be returning. I have returned to the slopes. I still do favor it a little. My biggest concern is my arm gets achy when I'm on my feet for a period of time. Example: if I'm at the mall or shopping for an hour, my arm starts to ache. My arm also gets achy when I wear my brace skiing and snowboarding, but it won't ache if I leave the brace at home (always have a backpack on). Sleep is still uncomfortable on the left side.

    My question is, will the the aching go away with time, or is it here to stay? I also have the "bump" and its hideous. Does the self-consciousness go away with time too?

    Thanks, and sorry for thread jacking.

  4. #104
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    Aches and Pains

    I suffered a 4th degree (the AC and CC were completely torn) back in Spring of 09 and I still have the aches and pains. I am now at a point where I can do just about everything I could do before. The only holdups I have is doing heavy resistance stuff like pullups or pushing heavy weights in the gym. When things get heavy I can feel the ligaments pulling and don't wanna risk hurting it. But I still encounter soreness on a regular basis but never any real pain.

    I do remember how wearing a backpack caused minor aches and soreness early on. This went away a few months ago. I would get tightness in my shoulder on the side of the injury. I would guess that will go away for you. Just stretch it out (I twist my back opposite of the injury and it helps).

    I don't wear my brace often but i did just last month when I went snowboarding and while I never felt pain (I fell a lot I did experience soreness. Currently I mountain bike (absolutely 0 issues and I ride pretty hard), do triathlon (sometimes swimming will cause soreness) and run (13+ miles I feel that side fatigue quicker than the other but just soreness). I don't wear my brace through any of this.

    The last two weeks I've started playing basketball which I was really worried about. I play pretty hard and I wasn't sure how my shoulder would hold up because the shoulder moves alot and has some sudden jolts quite often. There are times when a quick jolt will be uncomfortable (not painful) but no lingering pain, just moderate soreness.

    So to answer your question (simply from my experience), the soreness hasn't gone away yet (I'm seeing it subside through time) but the functionality is all there and there is no pain. I just stretch it out and it feels much better. I did get a massage in summer and it was AWESOME! Just play it safe and don't push it too hard, let it heal.

  5. #105
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    Damn... here I am .... 4 months nealry later and I can say it is sore everyday still... not as bad... I got range of motion .. but if I raise my hand straight up... I can do it.. but it hurts. I dont know if I should do it a lot and hopefully the pain will go away? I am sick of the sore ness.. cant wait...
    I can mountain bike.. mainly road bike.... its sore but works

  6. #106
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    i got hit by a car one week ago today and landed directly on the shoulder. i didn't see a doctor because i hate going, it's bad for our companies worker's comp rates, and i knew they would try to make me stay off of it. and i'd rather work if i can. just in the last day or two the swelling in my shoulder went down enough that i could really clearly follow the clavicle and make sure it wasn't broken, but i figured it wasn't because i've had very little pain the whole way through. but i finally with internet research was able to self-diagnose as a level 2 or 3, probably 3 AC separation. i wish i'd known earlier, so i could have taped it for support during that vital first week of healing. i'll still tape it from now on. here are some pictures of the injury, one week after occurence.

    http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...y/DSC00198.jpg
    http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...y/DSC00197.jpg
    http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...y/DSC00196.jpg
    http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...y/DSC00199.jpg

    but the truth is... the shoulder locked up after about 20 minutes to where i couldn't lift the arm near shoulder length. by one or two days after, i could lift the arm above shoulder height again. of course with pain, but i could do it. the most painful things i've done is pulled up on the handlebars (no curb hops for me this week) and lifted something kind of heavy into the bed of a tall pickup (lifting up was fine, setting it back down in the truck a foot away from the body was what hurt). the second most painful thing i do is to swing my bike chain lock around behind me to catch it with the other hand. it's hard to switch hands with this habit, but switching helps enough to make it worth it. other than those things, i've used it pretty regularly already. so, i don't think i would consider surgery or even consultation because i've worked 9 hour days as a messenger, sometimes with up to 40lbs in the bag weighing on the shoulder, beginning about 30 minutes after the accident and through this whole week.

    SO. with that long bit out, here is my final question though - after the injury does heal, what will a trauma incident to the same area do later? is there increased risk, or is there maybe decreased risk because significant scar tissue has formed and the joint isn't even there to break anymore?

    p.s. the last picture is to show where my bag rests for work.

  7. #107
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    Im not a doctor.. your bone sticks up more than mine. In fact I cand figure out why my bone doesnt stick up as much as others... but I have a little bigger neck muscle so mabe I cant see it sticking up so much because its hidden? I wrapped mine up for like 5 days really hard and kept it immobile.. I couldnt even hardly walk for 4 days the pain was so intents. i kept my forarm bent parralel to my body .. I needed help just goin to the bathroom for 3 days + and taking a shower by myself was almost impossible for a week. I try not to think of myself as a *****, but all I had was some mild muscle relaxers and liike ibubufferin . I sear I thought It would never heal... but 5 months later I am 90-95% back to normal. Some advised the operation, some advised it would be cool to heal normally. Id say go natural. But I had this butterflycolarbone brace thing I wore and wrapped my body up forcing teh bone down for a week-2 weeks. Maybe thats why it is not proturudign now? I wouldnt **** with anything or try to be macho about it it will only keep it from healing and stuff. But I am serious to say I had no ****ing choice.. it was very painful.

    Good luck,

  8. #108
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    that's what is so wierd to me... the bone protrudes up as far as the model/textbook cases i find on medical sites... enough to definitely hint at a level3 separation. but the pain just hasn't been there for me. certain motions cause me to say "ooo" and retract from the movement quick, but nothing constant and nothing unbearable. so i do believe in trusting your body and its signals, and if it really really needed me to lay off it'd tell me so. but my mind simply thinks that i need to let it rest. so i might trade with a coworker biking for driving (he drives usually but would like to get a little time in the sun on the bike), maybe a week or so.

  9. #109
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    Dinsmore, congratulations, your the new owner of a AC seperation. Even though you are starting to regain strength and mobility, you should still get an x-ray to see if it's a grade 2 or 3 seperation.If it's a 3 then all ligaments are torn and you can't really do any more damage, but if it's a grade 2, then another hit to that shoulder could result in an increase in severity which might require surgery.I'm not a doctor, but to me your seperation looks like a grade 2.I injured mine about six months ago (grade 3)and it looks like a golf ball growing out the top of my shoulder and I have alot of upper body mass.You look pretty thin and with the injury being pretty new doesn't look to severe. Good luck brother.

  10. #110
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    thank you for the warning about protecting if it's level 2. for as much info on the injury as there is on the internet, i found nothing at all about the risks of repeat incidents.

    and, yeah, based on the low pain level, only a half day or so of limited range of motion, and the not so bad bump, it's probably level 2 as you say.

    do you think med students do free x-ray clinics like they do for some other procedures? ha.

  11. #111
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    Yeah I dont know how its not painful for you. The **** really really hurt for me. Ratherit hurts or not, be easy on it for the long run. SStrange it doesnt hurt.

  12. #112
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    dinsmore, the real danger to a repeat incident is that you don't know for certain what grade seperation you have. A grade 3, is that all ligaments are torn, a grade 2, to my understanding is not all ligaments are torn.There are 2 group of ligaments that stabilize the AC joint.

  13. #113
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    Well I went OTB yesterday when I hit a root sticking up. I went to Not So Urgent Care last night. After 4 hours they said AC seperation. Now I need to go to an orthopedic Dr. tomorrow. I'll let you know what they say!

  14. #114
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    The AC joint seems a little over rated. I had a grade 3 sep 8 years ago. I ended up having the bone cut and AC repinned that year, so I wouldn't have the bone looking like it would burst through the skin at any moment. I never had any pain. I had some clicking and mashing of the bone through the muscle when doing shoulder presses or rows. I no longer do chin ups.

    I'm happy I had the bone cut and the AC repaired. I brought my shoulder almost all the way back up to normal position. It was limited some my range of movement a little. My shoulder would get pretty sore if I was doing rowing and press type motions. It looked pretty funky to have my shoulder an inch lower on my left side with a protrusion popping up through my shirts. I have paid for a lot of insurance over the years. I'm glad I used it.

    Be glad it was not a rotator cuff injury. Those don't have happy endings near as often.

  15. #115
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    To respond to my last post, I went to the Dr. yesterday. He said it is a minor AC separation. That's good!

    Honestly from me not being able to move it Saturday evening, Sunday all day, it felt like 75% better on monday. Today is feels a little worse than yesterday, but still much better than sat/sunday. I plan on going back to work on monday.

    Mike

  16. #116
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    LuckySomer - how soon after the injury did you have the Weaver-Dunn?

    I did my AC 11 years ago. Level 4, pretty nasty, snowboarding. Hit a quarter wrong, came down on the shoulder. I popped all the ligaments. Had surgery 3 days after the accident but not really sure what was done. I live in Japan and back then my Japanese wasn't good. I know I had a large pin in my shoulder that was removed a month after surgery.

    Anyhow, the surgery did nothing apart from taking me out for 3-4 months. As soon as the pinned was removed I felt the clavicle ping like it was on a spring. I can put a finger between the clavicle and shoulder blade. I can't do heavy weight training as the shoulder gets too sore. I'd love to put some muscle on the shoulder so the clavicle is not so pronounced but it just doesn't seem possible.

    I'm now thinking about corrective surgery as I'm just sick of being deformed. The Weaver-Dunn procedure looks promising but I think finding a willing ortho doc here will be hard plus it is going to be pricey

    I also do a lot of Aikido (I train every day) and some of the throws and locks twist up the shoulder. Sometimes I am simply incapacitated with pain. I'm 37 now and have a lot of active life ahead of and i really feel like the shoulder is holding me back. So I have the jutting out collar bone and nice scar plus vary degrees of pain, soreness and aching. I'd rather do what I do and take the pain though than not do it. But if I could get it fixed by corrective surgery that would be awesome.

    Anyone heard of having this procedure done years after the event? I can also feel the onset of arthritis and heard this procedure can also help with that.

    Oh, also, that "bump" you all got....well, be prepared for it to get BIGGER. Especially if you're active. Weight training definitely widened the gap by a good few millimetres and I'm sure Aikido has added more. Basically after 11 years and surgery the clavicle is 50% higher off the shoulder than it was after that fateful quarter pipe jump.

  17. #117
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    Update:
    I am now 3 years and a few months out from my crash and my surgery using modified weaver dunn, (read my previous post and follow up post). Crash was on 12/26/06 and surgery on 12/28/06 for third degree separation.

    My shoulder feels strong and my range of motion is nearly 100%. I can do most all the things I could do before, I choose not to do bench presses as I just don't think they are as functional as push ups. I am happy with the surgery and would not do anything different. My pin is still in, never had it removed.

    Hope this helps any of you who are wondering what to do and good luck to you! If you have any questions feel free to PM me.
    The Trick to carrying on is not to get carried away

  18. #118
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    update on mine

    Snowboard crash causing separation: 12-5-2009
    Today 5-5-2010

    The last month my shoulder has been getting worse in terms of pain.

    Activity is pretty normal with the effected shoulder. Good range of motion. bump is bouncy and moves around when arm is moved. I am able to work out, but for every hour of working out, there is 3+ days of pain afterwards. Can't be out for multiple hours at a time, Example: denver auto show, after 2 hours of walking around pain was unbearable and had to go home. Normally starts out as a dull ache and escalates the longer I'm on my feet.

    I am actually needing some input of those who have had surgery. I am planning on seeing an orthopedic. I hear surgery puts you out for 6 months. Is there supposed to be pain with conservative healing? will there be this pain after surgery?

    Thanks for any input

  19. #119
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    Post-op surgery was the most paid I've ever felt in my entire life. Way much more pain than the actual separation and more painful than being run over by a car and fracturing my skull as a child. I was shaking with pain for about 12 hours. Excrutiating.

  20. #120
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    I had a 3D+ separation (R) in 1998 and had it repaired. It took about 6 months to heal and get back on the bike. It was a drag but well worth it. My surgeon was able to get to 99% rotation and now I can throw a fastball better with my kids. Go figure. My left shoulder has been bruised a few times (just recently) but seemed to escape any serious injury. The right side has a little bump to match my normaly bumpy shoulders.

  21. #121
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    Ask for a nerve blocker and you will feel no pain until it wears off (12 hours). I am 3 months out from surgery. Still sore but have 90+% range of motion. Really glad I choose surgury, had a grade 4 separation. Clavical was just under the skin.

  22. #122
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    Just separated my shoulder last Wed. going down a chute on mt bike (done it before). Messed up on line and and next thing you know.... Have no insurance cus just got new job so 2 more months to go and hope they keep me. Should have rode conservatively cus could have been worse and no insurance.

    From reading forums and researching web, I have a type 2 separation. Can't lay down on left side. Bump on shoulder is not too noticable. ROM improved from last week. The thing that bothers me is how my injured shoulder is not as wide as the normal one anymore. Looks like it dipped down at the edge so to speak. When I wear T-shirt the sleeve on the injured shoulder appears longer than the sleeve on the normal shoulder.

    I know the bump will stay forever but mine is not that noticable, but will the shoulder ever look broad again or will it always be a 1/2 to an inch lower than normal?

    Also, Do ligaments ever replace themself or once damaged its gone forever? Do the ligaments get replaced by new bone if ligament cant heal itself? What is the disadvantge if support is with other bone vs ligaments.
    A spotless bike is a bored bike.

  23. #123
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    Grade 1, 2, and 3 separation are generally treated without surgery. Once the ligament is torn it stays that way unless surgically repaired. What ever your posture is now will stay that way. A separated shoulder can lead to other problems in the future. Just depends on how severe it is.

    http://www.aafp.org/afp/980215ap/980215a.html

    These are the types of exercises you need to strengthen your Rotator Cuff.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonoran_Flyer
    Grade 1, 2, and 3 separation are generally treated without surgery. Once the ligament is torn it stays that way unless surgically repaired. What ever your posture is now will stay that way. A separated shoulder can lead to other problems in the future. Just depends on how severe it is.

    http://www.aafp.org/afp/980215ap/980215a.html

    These are the types of exercises you need to strengthen your Rotator Cuff.
    Thanks. I'll probably wait one more week before I do that. Right now I'm just focusing on shoulder shrugs, raising arm up and down with the natural wait of my arm.

    Just curious when you say problems in the future, do you mean things like arthritis? Can I choose to do surgery later so that ligaments are fixed. I read somewhere that surgery would have to be done with 3 days for ligaments to be fixed.

    When I become permanent at my job and get insurance I will see an ortho just so I can get a better understanding of long term effects.
    A spotless bike is a bored bike.

  25. #125
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    If its grade 1 or 2 probably no or minimal complications. Grade 3 or higher would be of concern. It is just the shoulder is out of its natural position and is using different muscles to support it. This can lead to Rotator Cuff issues 10 to 15 years later. In my case the clavical was just under the skin(punched thru muscle), which can lead to Necrosis (death of skin or infection).

  26. #126
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    I'm 2 weeks into a grade 2 separation that I suffered in the most ridiculous OTB scenario ever.

    Usually I bounce back very quickly but this is different. The recovery process is much slower and I now believe my physio when he says "6 weeks" at least.

    Trying my best not to lose fitness.

    To all the other AC joint injury sufferers out there:

    "GET WELL SOON & CHIN UP"

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by jathanas
    Trying my best not to lose fitness.
    Thats for sure. I'll continue running treadmill and stationary cycling for the mean time once I feel my arm is a tad better. Right now I'm still too paranoid to be swaying my arm that much from jogging/running or putting wait down on the handle bars of the stationary cycle.

    I'll begin the third week after injury. For now I will continue working my ROM at home with the natural wait of my arm.

    Also hope I can eventually lay down on my left side.Some people say that they still can't lay down on their injured side after months after injury.
    A spotless bike is a bored bike.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacing08
    Thats for sure. I'll continue running treadmill and stationary cycling for the mean time once I feel my arm is a tad better. Right now I'm still too paranoid to be swaying my arm that much from jogging/running or putting wait down on the handle bars of the stationary cycle.

    I'll begin the third week after injury. For now I will continue working my ROM at home with the natural wait of my arm.

    Also hope I can eventually lay down on my left side.Some people say that they still can't lay down on their injured side after months after injury.
    Been 9 months for me, still can't sleep on my left side. But I can pull a tee shirt over my head using my left arm!
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  29. #129
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    The recovery was going great. 5 weeks from my grade 2 separation I was on the roadie without discomfort...

    On my third ride back I got collected by a car. Diagnosis: Grade 2 AC Separation - Same shoulder. Back to step 1.

    Son of a b#(ch.

  30. #130
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    Glad I found this thread. I am amazed at how many people there are with this type of injury. I suffered a Grade 4 separation a few weeks ago. The first ortho I went to said to just leave it alone and deal with it until scar tissue helped to stabilize the joint. A few days later, I got a second opinion from an ortho who specializes in shoulders and it seems there is a newer procedure out there that must be done within 2 weeks of the injury. It's similar to Weaver-Dunn, but they use metal buttons on top and bottom and very strong sutures to pull the bones back ino place. The ligaments are butted together and reattach and heal, which takes a long time because ligaments are nonvascular. You can be in a sling up to three months and then 9 months of PT. It was put to me that since I was very active to do the surgery, otherwise, just let it scar up. It's been two weeks since the surgery and the joint seems to be quieting down. Coughing and sneezing does not cause much movement anymore and I have confidence that it will heal up completely in time.

    Just wanted to let everyone know that there is another option out there for higher grade separations.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by cannonman
    Glad I found this thread. I am amazed at how many people there are with this type of injury. I suffered a Grade 4 separation a few weeks ago. The first ortho I went to said to just leave it alone and deal with it until scar tissue helped to stabilize the joint. A few days later, I got a second opinion from an ortho who specializes in shoulders and it seems there is a newer procedure out there that must be done within 2 weeks of the injury. It's similar to Weaver-Dunn, but they use metal buttons on top and bottom and very strong sutures to pull the bones back ino place. The ligaments are butted together and reattach and heal, which takes a long time because ligaments are nonvascular. You can be in a sling up to three months and then 9 months of PT. It was put to me that since I was very active to do the surgery, otherwise, just let it scar up. It's been two weeks since the surgery and the joint seems to be quieting down. Coughing and sneezing does not cause much movement anymore and I have confidence that it will heal up completely in time.

    Just wanted to let everyone know that there is another option out there for higher grade separations.
    Get well soon mate.

    I'd also have considered surgery if I had suffered a grade 4 AC separation. Luckily, mine wasn't so bad, even the second time around.

    All the literature I've read states that for grade 3 and above you'd be looking at a 12 week recovery period. Chin up!

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlizard720
    Snowboard crash causing separation: 12-5-2009
    Today 5-5-2010

    The last month my shoulder has been getting worse in terms of pain.

    Activity is pretty normal with the effected shoulder. Good range of motion. bump is bouncy and moves around when arm is moved. I am able to work out, but for every hour of working out, there is 3+ days of pain afterwards. Can't be out for multiple hours at a time, Example: denver auto show, after 2 hours of walking around pain was unbearable and had to go home. Normally starts out as a dull ache and escalates the longer I'm on my feet.

    I am actually needing some input of those who have had surgery. I am planning on seeing an orthopedic. I hear surgery puts you out for 6 months. Is there supposed to be pain with conservative healing? will there be this pain after surgery?

    Thanks for any input
    Hey, I was in the same boat as you with the throbbing pain that comes up the longer you are up so I thought I would respond. I dealt with healing a Grade III AC Sep for about 3 months without any intervention and then between 3 and 6 months my pain started getting worse and worse to the point of being unbearable just as yours has. I was sure that I was in need of surgery. Finally went back to the Ortho doc and he suggested first to try some physical therapy before moving to surgery. Within one week of starting PT with an actual Physical Therapist the unbearable pain like you are having went totally away and has not been a problem since. Thank god for physical therapy!

  33. #133
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    well I had a grade 3/4 about 10 years ago now. The bump is still there. I have a muscular/lean frame and I still cant get the shoulder built up 100% around it. I have full mobility and maybe a little less strength in left shoulder vs. right. It will always be noticable. I have just learned to love it! It makes for a great story!! You will get past it!

  34. #134
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    Update after 3.5 months:

    The pain never really when away. Dr. worried about rotator cuff tear. He called for a MRI, but for some reason I could not handle it so they did an arthrogram this morning. Rotator cuff is good! He said the scans showed an ac separation. But knew that from the beginning. The weird thing is that the separation is bigger now than it was before. My sister works in the imaging office and said it is 1.5cm apart, which is more than last time.

    I have to go back to my Dr. on Friday. I will ask him if it is a level 2 or 3 and why it got bigger. I think it is only a level 2 because I can't really move it around.

    It's been over 12 weeks. I wonder why I still have pain raising my arm or doing some over head work. Painting and sweeping with a push broom forget about it!

    Biking doesn't bother it, which is great.

  35. #135
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    I guess I get to be a member of team pointy shoulder too. IO went OTB yesterday and sustained a pretty obvious left shoulder separation as verified later on my xrays. Sucks with arm in sling everything is awkward, and as an auto mechanic I am off work for a good while.
    Worst part? I only got to ride on my new Magura Thor fork once, and it was working sooo good! Now I have to stare forlornly at it for awhile....

  36. #136
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    Update 5 weeks after my 2nd degree AC separation. I can crank out 25 push-ups and 7 chin-ups (close grip). The shoulder does not feel normal yet, the physio suggests that's still months away.

    Riding again which is good. Enjoying it too, more importantly.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by jathanas
    Update 5 weeks after my 2nd degree AC separation. I can crank out 25 push-ups and 7 chin-ups (close grip). The shoulder does not feel normal yet, the physio suggests that's still months away.

    Riding again which is good. Enjoying it too, more importantly.
    Can you use the affected arm to help put on a tee shirt? How about using that arm to shampoo your head in the shower? These were benchmarks I used. Ten months after my crash I can finally sleep for awhile on my affected shoulder. Woo hoo!
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    Can you use the affected arm to help put on a tee shirt? How about using that arm to shampoo your head in the shower? These were benchmarks I used. Ten months after my crash I can finally sleep for awhile on my affected shoulder. Woo hoo!
    As of last week, I can answer YES to both your questions

    You don't know how valuable your right arm is in all hygiene & grooming activity until you must do without... Shave, toilet, shower, dressing up etc

    Still can't sleep on that side though, it still doesn't feel 100%

  39. #139
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    Hi guys - joined the club last monday in an OTB incident I can't remember most of!, saw consultant last night who confirmed grade 3 separation.

    Recommended waiting 2 weeks to see if it was recovering before deciding on surgical route or not, but said that it was too early to start physio in the meantime which didn't sound right to me.

    When did you start physio in your recovery phases?

    Mark

    Ac Separation (shoulder Separation)-xray.jpg
    Last edited by marko1480; 08-10-2010 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Added x-ray

  40. #140
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    I would get a second opinion. Find a doctor would specializes in Sport Medicine and shoulders. From what I know surgery is most successful when done within a couple of weeks of injury.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by marko1480
    Hi guys - joined the club last monday in an OTB incident I can't remember most of!, saw consultant last night who confirmed grade 3 separation.

    Recommended waiting 2 weeks to see if it was recovering before deciding on surgical route or not, but said that it was too early to start physio in the meantime which didn't sound right to me.

    When did you start physio in your recovery phases?

    Mark
    Your physio is right. The first 2 weeks of the injury are the inflammation & repair phase. It is important to rest your shoulder, and reduce inflammation during this time (ibuprofen during the first week).

    Usually a physio will recommend a sling or shoulder brace to keep the shoulder still during this period.

    The ultrasound, TENS, and exercises can start later.

  42. #142
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    Well I'm 8 weeks in to healing a type 2 AC seperation in my left shoulder, but the ortho wouldn't address it until the right arm radial head compression fracture healed. So I start PT today for 4-6 weeks 2 time a week. What I want to know is how has the after healing riding been? I currently ride full rigid.
    if you don't feel like riding, that's usually when you need it most

  43. #143
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    I'm 2 months out from a grade 3 AC separation. The doc (his specialty is shoulders) said he normally wouldn't operate but since I do sports 6-7 days per week, he wants to use a cadaver tendon to tie the clavicle and scapula together. I'll get a 2nd opinion in 9 days.

    On the weight machines my pulling (back) strength is about 70%, my pressing strength is only 15%-25% of my uninjured side. The wild card is that I'm 60 which means I should heal more slowly than a young person.

    Most of the posters above seem to recommend against surgery but without shoulder stability, I can't see my strength increasing much at all, especially since I've been lifting weights for 46 years and could do 1 arm chin ups until the injury.

    For the benefit of those injured in the future, I'll update my story when changes occurr..

  44. #144
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    Here is the xray from the day I went OTB on 4-3-10

    Ac Separation (shoulder Separation)-shoulder4-3-10small.jpg

    Here is it 3 months later. See how much further the separation is. I wonder why?
    Ac Separation (shoulder Separation)-shoulder7-12-10small.jpg

  45. #145
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    I'm seeing 2 different orthopedic surgeons next week about my grade 3 AC tear. Feel free to send me questions that you have about grade 3 AC tears. I'll add your questions to my list of questions and then report back on the forum with the doctors answers. My appts are Sept 15 and Sept 17.

    The first doc wants to use a cadaver tendon. I'm going to ask if there isn't a stronger synthetic material available. It will be my first appointment with the 2nd doc.

  46. #146
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    Since this keeps getting bumped up.....I'm a week or so away from two years out on my cat 3/4.

    I did not have surgery, partially because my job frowns on retained hardware/spare parts. But also because after 3-4 second opinions it felt like the Ortho Doc's really just wanted to do an uncommon surgery. Thing is that none of the surgeries actually repairs the ligaments. All going under the knife was trade the odd bump for a scar, and bring the two parts close together so you can have an operation later in life when the joint is terribly arthritic.

    I'm not a Doc, and far be it from me to imply they would rather do 20K worth of surgery rather than just send you home with a sling and a scrip for some narcotics...................

    That said my shoulder is stronger than it was prior. I only notice the separation when I sleep too long on that side or when doing things like wide grip pull ups.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  47. #147
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    G-reg

    You are correct about the ligaments. On a grade 3 the ligaments are completely torn and are useless. The surgical procedure my doc suggests uses a cadaver tendon to tie the clavicle and scapula together. Prior to the grade 3 AC tear, 2 ligaments secured the clavicle to the scapula.

    My doc was opposed to surgery the day after the injury. I was the one who wanted the surgery, not him. Because of the number of sports I do (wakeboard, kiteboard, jui jitsu, surf) he said I was not the usual case and that the surgery would help me.

    My injured side lifts approx. 20% as much as the uninjured side on pressing motions and lifts 70% on pulling motions. The injured area muscles haven't gotten weaker. The muscles are still strong but are not able to exhibit strength now that the bones are no longer tied together to stabilize the shoulder. Any pressing movement, even 10lbs is very herky jerky.

    I haven't made my final decision but surgery seems like the best choice for me.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Head
    G-reg

    ..... cadaver tendon to tie the clavicle and scapula together........
    Note that there is a big difference between tie and repair. The surgery won't really gain you the stability back. Surgery or not it is muscles compensating and the scar tissue that encapsulates the blown up ligaments that eventually brings back stability.

    Also think about the forces that popped those ligaments in the first place. Would the surgically repaired shoulder take that hit?

    The one ortho I saw described it like this: "I don't know how religious a man you are so I don't want to offend you.....But the AC joint is more from the swinging from trees section of evolution."

    Just make sure you are getting something beneficial from going under the knife.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  49. #149
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    G-reg thanks for the reply.
    I am 64 days out with no shoulder stability. If I forego surgery, what type of time range do you think before I notice some shoulder stability?

    Does the scar tissue form on each torn ligament to reattach them together and reestablish the connection of scapula to clavicle? I'm lifting every day and I haven't noticed any muscle compensation yet as movements are herky jerky. I'm seeing a 2nd doctor next week. Hopefully I'll be armed with intelligent questions from what I've learned from you and others on the forum. My first doc didn't say much. Thanks again.

  50. #150
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    At two months I was still pretty unstable, no pain anymore but I had to be careful. If I recall correctly one of the surgeries can actually kinda repair one of the ligaments IF done within 24hrs of the injury. Otherwise those three ligaments are toast. The scarring encapsulates the ends of the clavicle and scapula-nubbin, the ligaments doing nothing anymore. Muscles will eventually compensate, as if the clavicle was never there.

    At two months if you are able to work out enough to determine that you are still herky-jerky....you're probably doing pretty well. Give it some more time, maybe get on a dedicated PT program.

    Good luck with the second opinion, make sure to say "this guy on the internet said" as much as possible.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

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