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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntiNSA
    I feel much better wearing a brace... I am on 2.5 weeks and have not ridden yet.. I have this brace that wraps around both shoulders and velcros in the back. First I have my woman wrap the shoulder and diagonal across my chest. I take off the brace at night after work and put it on in the morning. Seems to have helped... I feel much mroe invincible with it on.l I can see the strength slowly returning. I ahve rasied my hand up twice since the accident.. once yesterday and once 5 minutes ago.. Couldnt even think about doing that last week. Id say wear the brace to you have full strength.. I definately dont at 2.5 weeks but am feeling like I would like to try riding the bike for 10 miles or so.... but at the same time in the middle of the day' when it aches I can easily realise its too soon to try to ride. I would hate to ride ten miles and be stranded in pain or roll back the clock on the healing process..
    Wearing your brace is good for awhile (I was in what I'd call a sling) but PT, range of motion is your friend. At some point real soon you need to start working your arm through its normal range of motion so your shoulder doesn't freeze up. Use it or lose it, they say.

    Your injury is much worse than my shoulder was/is so others can give you hints about how soon and what kinds of ROM movements you should be doing. Just don't immobilize your shoulder for too long a period. Forget about riding for now.
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  2. #102
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    Like your wells quote btw... I use that in my class whe teaching debate basics....

    I can raise my hand over my head real slowly... I know this is stupid but.. I am thinking Idont ride my bike with my arms raised

    I am feeling almost confident enough that I am internally debating to ride or not..
    I ride about 80-90 km a day going to classes..
    I knoe I cant do that now... but was thinking 26 km in 13 km splits...

    The thing is half of my route is through peasant villages in China.... I am clearly aware that even in my safety zone I can srew up my body for the rest of my life as what got me hear was going over the bars completely unexpected from an unseen speedbumpp... I mean who the hell would have thought.

    The biggest issue to me riding right now is I am thinking I should buy medical insurence as I have two children and one on the way. I naever thought I would get hurt on a bicycle... but all y iuds depend on me and yeah the streets i china are dangerous but I got taken out by a spedbump on a street with no traffic... Freak accidents I guess can happen. I mean going down ski slopes in Germany or coming down out of the mountains in colorado 50 mph on a bike thats too small doesnt kill me... it is the speed bump going 14 kph...

    SO I guess I am going to have to get insurance.. But my bike is chained to my office desk and it is soooooooooo tempting... I seem to get fatter each day and cant stop drinking beer... I want to ride so bad.

  3. #103
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    Grade 3 separation

    I suffered a grade 3 (left side) in a snowboarding accident in early Dec. 2009. Now Feb. 2010, I have regained motion, and strength seems to be returning. I have returned to the slopes. I still do favor it a little. My biggest concern is my arm gets achy when I'm on my feet for a period of time. Example: if I'm at the mall or shopping for an hour, my arm starts to ache. My arm also gets achy when I wear my brace skiing and snowboarding, but it won't ache if I leave the brace at home (always have a backpack on). Sleep is still uncomfortable on the left side.

    My question is, will the the aching go away with time, or is it here to stay? I also have the "bump" and its hideous. Does the self-consciousness go away with time too?

    Thanks, and sorry for thread jacking.

  4. #104
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    Aches and Pains

    I suffered a 4th degree (the AC and CC were completely torn) back in Spring of 09 and I still have the aches and pains. I am now at a point where I can do just about everything I could do before. The only holdups I have is doing heavy resistance stuff like pullups or pushing heavy weights in the gym. When things get heavy I can feel the ligaments pulling and don't wanna risk hurting it. But I still encounter soreness on a regular basis but never any real pain.

    I do remember how wearing a backpack caused minor aches and soreness early on. This went away a few months ago. I would get tightness in my shoulder on the side of the injury. I would guess that will go away for you. Just stretch it out (I twist my back opposite of the injury and it helps).

    I don't wear my brace often but i did just last month when I went snowboarding and while I never felt pain (I fell a lot I did experience soreness. Currently I mountain bike (absolutely 0 issues and I ride pretty hard), do triathlon (sometimes swimming will cause soreness) and run (13+ miles I feel that side fatigue quicker than the other but just soreness). I don't wear my brace through any of this.

    The last two weeks I've started playing basketball which I was really worried about. I play pretty hard and I wasn't sure how my shoulder would hold up because the shoulder moves alot and has some sudden jolts quite often. There are times when a quick jolt will be uncomfortable (not painful) but no lingering pain, just moderate soreness.

    So to answer your question (simply from my experience), the soreness hasn't gone away yet (I'm seeing it subside through time) but the functionality is all there and there is no pain. I just stretch it out and it feels much better. I did get a massage in summer and it was AWESOME! Just play it safe and don't push it too hard, let it heal.

  5. #105
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    Damn... here I am .... 4 months nealry later and I can say it is sore everyday still... not as bad... I got range of motion .. but if I raise my hand straight up... I can do it.. but it hurts. I dont know if I should do it a lot and hopefully the pain will go away? I am sick of the sore ness.. cant wait...
    I can mountain bike.. mainly road bike.... its sore but works

  6. #106
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    i got hit by a car one week ago today and landed directly on the shoulder. i didn't see a doctor because i hate going, it's bad for our companies worker's comp rates, and i knew they would try to make me stay off of it. and i'd rather work if i can. just in the last day or two the swelling in my shoulder went down enough that i could really clearly follow the clavicle and make sure it wasn't broken, but i figured it wasn't because i've had very little pain the whole way through. but i finally with internet research was able to self-diagnose as a level 2 or 3, probably 3 AC separation. i wish i'd known earlier, so i could have taped it for support during that vital first week of healing. i'll still tape it from now on. here are some pictures of the injury, one week after occurence.

    http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...y/DSC00198.jpg
    http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...y/DSC00197.jpg
    http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...y/DSC00196.jpg
    http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...y/DSC00199.jpg

    but the truth is... the shoulder locked up after about 20 minutes to where i couldn't lift the arm near shoulder length. by one or two days after, i could lift the arm above shoulder height again. of course with pain, but i could do it. the most painful things i've done is pulled up on the handlebars (no curb hops for me this week) and lifted something kind of heavy into the bed of a tall pickup (lifting up was fine, setting it back down in the truck a foot away from the body was what hurt). the second most painful thing i do is to swing my bike chain lock around behind me to catch it with the other hand. it's hard to switch hands with this habit, but switching helps enough to make it worth it. other than those things, i've used it pretty regularly already. so, i don't think i would consider surgery or even consultation because i've worked 9 hour days as a messenger, sometimes with up to 40lbs in the bag weighing on the shoulder, beginning about 30 minutes after the accident and through this whole week.

    SO. with that long bit out, here is my final question though - after the injury does heal, what will a trauma incident to the same area do later? is there increased risk, or is there maybe decreased risk because significant scar tissue has formed and the joint isn't even there to break anymore?

    p.s. the last picture is to show where my bag rests for work.

  7. #107
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    Im not a doctor.. your bone sticks up more than mine. In fact I cand figure out why my bone doesnt stick up as much as others... but I have a little bigger neck muscle so mabe I cant see it sticking up so much because its hidden? I wrapped mine up for like 5 days really hard and kept it immobile.. I couldnt even hardly walk for 4 days the pain was so intents. i kept my forarm bent parralel to my body .. I needed help just goin to the bathroom for 3 days + and taking a shower by myself was almost impossible for a week. I try not to think of myself as a *****, but all I had was some mild muscle relaxers and liike ibubufferin . I sear I thought It would never heal... but 5 months later I am 90-95% back to normal. Some advised the operation, some advised it would be cool to heal normally. Id say go natural. But I had this butterflycolarbone brace thing I wore and wrapped my body up forcing teh bone down for a week-2 weeks. Maybe thats why it is not proturudign now? I wouldnt **** with anything or try to be macho about it it will only keep it from healing and stuff. But I am serious to say I had no ****ing choice.. it was very painful.

    Good luck,

  8. #108
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    that's what is so wierd to me... the bone protrudes up as far as the model/textbook cases i find on medical sites... enough to definitely hint at a level3 separation. but the pain just hasn't been there for me. certain motions cause me to say "ooo" and retract from the movement quick, but nothing constant and nothing unbearable. so i do believe in trusting your body and its signals, and if it really really needed me to lay off it'd tell me so. but my mind simply thinks that i need to let it rest. so i might trade with a coworker biking for driving (he drives usually but would like to get a little time in the sun on the bike), maybe a week or so.

  9. #109
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    Dinsmore, congratulations, your the new owner of a AC seperation. Even though you are starting to regain strength and mobility, you should still get an x-ray to see if it's a grade 2 or 3 seperation.If it's a 3 then all ligaments are torn and you can't really do any more damage, but if it's a grade 2, then another hit to that shoulder could result in an increase in severity which might require surgery.I'm not a doctor, but to me your seperation looks like a grade 2.I injured mine about six months ago (grade 3)and it looks like a golf ball growing out the top of my shoulder and I have alot of upper body mass.You look pretty thin and with the injury being pretty new doesn't look to severe. Good luck brother.

  10. #110
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    thank you for the warning about protecting if it's level 2. for as much info on the injury as there is on the internet, i found nothing at all about the risks of repeat incidents.

    and, yeah, based on the low pain level, only a half day or so of limited range of motion, and the not so bad bump, it's probably level 2 as you say.

    do you think med students do free x-ray clinics like they do for some other procedures? ha.

  11. #111
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    Yeah I dont know how its not painful for you. The **** really really hurt for me. Ratherit hurts or not, be easy on it for the long run. SStrange it doesnt hurt.

  12. #112
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    dinsmore, the real danger to a repeat incident is that you don't know for certain what grade seperation you have. A grade 3, is that all ligaments are torn, a grade 2, to my understanding is not all ligaments are torn.There are 2 group of ligaments that stabilize the AC joint.

  13. #113
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    Well I went OTB yesterday when I hit a root sticking up. I went to Not So Urgent Care last night. After 4 hours they said AC seperation. Now I need to go to an orthopedic Dr. tomorrow. I'll let you know what they say!

  14. #114
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    The AC joint seems a little over rated. I had a grade 3 sep 8 years ago. I ended up having the bone cut and AC repinned that year, so I wouldn't have the bone looking like it would burst through the skin at any moment. I never had any pain. I had some clicking and mashing of the bone through the muscle when doing shoulder presses or rows. I no longer do chin ups.

    I'm happy I had the bone cut and the AC repaired. I brought my shoulder almost all the way back up to normal position. It was limited some my range of movement a little. My shoulder would get pretty sore if I was doing rowing and press type motions. It looked pretty funky to have my shoulder an inch lower on my left side with a protrusion popping up through my shirts. I have paid for a lot of insurance over the years. I'm glad I used it.

    Be glad it was not a rotator cuff injury. Those don't have happy endings near as often.

  15. #115
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    To respond to my last post, I went to the Dr. yesterday. He said it is a minor AC separation. That's good!

    Honestly from me not being able to move it Saturday evening, Sunday all day, it felt like 75% better on monday. Today is feels a little worse than yesterday, but still much better than sat/sunday. I plan on going back to work on monday.

    Mike

  16. #116
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    LuckySomer - how soon after the injury did you have the Weaver-Dunn?

    I did my AC 11 years ago. Level 4, pretty nasty, snowboarding. Hit a quarter wrong, came down on the shoulder. I popped all the ligaments. Had surgery 3 days after the accident but not really sure what was done. I live in Japan and back then my Japanese wasn't good. I know I had a large pin in my shoulder that was removed a month after surgery.

    Anyhow, the surgery did nothing apart from taking me out for 3-4 months. As soon as the pinned was removed I felt the clavicle ping like it was on a spring. I can put a finger between the clavicle and shoulder blade. I can't do heavy weight training as the shoulder gets too sore. I'd love to put some muscle on the shoulder so the clavicle is not so pronounced but it just doesn't seem possible.

    I'm now thinking about corrective surgery as I'm just sick of being deformed. The Weaver-Dunn procedure looks promising but I think finding a willing ortho doc here will be hard plus it is going to be pricey

    I also do a lot of Aikido (I train every day) and some of the throws and locks twist up the shoulder. Sometimes I am simply incapacitated with pain. I'm 37 now and have a lot of active life ahead of and i really feel like the shoulder is holding me back. So I have the jutting out collar bone and nice scar plus vary degrees of pain, soreness and aching. I'd rather do what I do and take the pain though than not do it. But if I could get it fixed by corrective surgery that would be awesome.

    Anyone heard of having this procedure done years after the event? I can also feel the onset of arthritis and heard this procedure can also help with that.

    Oh, also, that "bump" you all got....well, be prepared for it to get BIGGER. Especially if you're active. Weight training definitely widened the gap by a good few millimetres and I'm sure Aikido has added more. Basically after 11 years and surgery the clavicle is 50% higher off the shoulder than it was after that fateful quarter pipe jump.

  17. #117
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    Update:
    I am now 3 years and a few months out from my crash and my surgery using modified weaver dunn, (read my previous post and follow up post). Crash was on 12/26/06 and surgery on 12/28/06 for third degree separation.

    My shoulder feels strong and my range of motion is nearly 100%. I can do most all the things I could do before, I choose not to do bench presses as I just don't think they are as functional as push ups. I am happy with the surgery and would not do anything different. My pin is still in, never had it removed.

    Hope this helps any of you who are wondering what to do and good luck to you! If you have any questions feel free to PM me.
    The Trick to carrying on is not to get carried away

  18. #118
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    update on mine

    Snowboard crash causing separation: 12-5-2009
    Today 5-5-2010

    The last month my shoulder has been getting worse in terms of pain.

    Activity is pretty normal with the effected shoulder. Good range of motion. bump is bouncy and moves around when arm is moved. I am able to work out, but for every hour of working out, there is 3+ days of pain afterwards. Can't be out for multiple hours at a time, Example: denver auto show, after 2 hours of walking around pain was unbearable and had to go home. Normally starts out as a dull ache and escalates the longer I'm on my feet.

    I am actually needing some input of those who have had surgery. I am planning on seeing an orthopedic. I hear surgery puts you out for 6 months. Is there supposed to be pain with conservative healing? will there be this pain after surgery?

    Thanks for any input

  19. #119
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    Post-op surgery was the most paid I've ever felt in my entire life. Way much more pain than the actual separation and more painful than being run over by a car and fracturing my skull as a child. I was shaking with pain for about 12 hours. Excrutiating.

  20. #120
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    I had a 3D+ separation (R) in 1998 and had it repaired. It took about 6 months to heal and get back on the bike. It was a drag but well worth it. My surgeon was able to get to 99% rotation and now I can throw a fastball better with my kids. Go figure. My left shoulder has been bruised a few times (just recently) but seemed to escape any serious injury. The right side has a little bump to match my normaly bumpy shoulders.

  21. #121
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    Ask for a nerve blocker and you will feel no pain until it wears off (12 hours). I am 3 months out from surgery. Still sore but have 90+% range of motion. Really glad I choose surgury, had a grade 4 separation. Clavical was just under the skin.

  22. #122
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    Just separated my shoulder last Wed. going down a chute on mt bike (done it before). Messed up on line and and next thing you know.... Have no insurance cus just got new job so 2 more months to go and hope they keep me. Should have rode conservatively cus could have been worse and no insurance.

    From reading forums and researching web, I have a type 2 separation. Can't lay down on left side. Bump on shoulder is not too noticable. ROM improved from last week. The thing that bothers me is how my injured shoulder is not as wide as the normal one anymore. Looks like it dipped down at the edge so to speak. When I wear T-shirt the sleeve on the injured shoulder appears longer than the sleeve on the normal shoulder.

    I know the bump will stay forever but mine is not that noticable, but will the shoulder ever look broad again or will it always be a 1/2 to an inch lower than normal?

    Also, Do ligaments ever replace themself or once damaged its gone forever? Do the ligaments get replaced by new bone if ligament cant heal itself? What is the disadvantge if support is with other bone vs ligaments.
    A spotless bike is a bored bike.

  23. #123
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    Grade 1, 2, and 3 separation are generally treated without surgery. Once the ligament is torn it stays that way unless surgically repaired. What ever your posture is now will stay that way. A separated shoulder can lead to other problems in the future. Just depends on how severe it is.

    http://www.aafp.org/afp/980215ap/980215a.html

    These are the types of exercises you need to strengthen your Rotator Cuff.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonoran_Flyer
    Grade 1, 2, and 3 separation are generally treated without surgery. Once the ligament is torn it stays that way unless surgically repaired. What ever your posture is now will stay that way. A separated shoulder can lead to other problems in the future. Just depends on how severe it is.

    http://www.aafp.org/afp/980215ap/980215a.html

    These are the types of exercises you need to strengthen your Rotator Cuff.
    Thanks. I'll probably wait one more week before I do that. Right now I'm just focusing on shoulder shrugs, raising arm up and down with the natural wait of my arm.

    Just curious when you say problems in the future, do you mean things like arthritis? Can I choose to do surgery later so that ligaments are fixed. I read somewhere that surgery would have to be done with 3 days for ligaments to be fixed.

    When I become permanent at my job and get insurance I will see an ortho just so I can get a better understanding of long term effects.
    A spotless bike is a bored bike.

  25. #125
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    If its grade 1 or 2 probably no or minimal complications. Grade 3 or higher would be of concern. It is just the shoulder is out of its natural position and is using different muscles to support it. This can lead to Rotator Cuff issues 10 to 15 years later. In my case the clavical was just under the skin(punched thru muscle), which can lead to Necrosis (death of skin or infection).

  26. #126
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    I'm 2 weeks into a grade 2 separation that I suffered in the most ridiculous OTB scenario ever.

    Usually I bounce back very quickly but this is different. The recovery process is much slower and I now believe my physio when he says "6 weeks" at least.

    Trying my best not to lose fitness.

    To all the other AC joint injury sufferers out there:

    "GET WELL SOON & CHIN UP"

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by jathanas
    Trying my best not to lose fitness.
    Thats for sure. I'll continue running treadmill and stationary cycling for the mean time once I feel my arm is a tad better. Right now I'm still too paranoid to be swaying my arm that much from jogging/running or putting wait down on the handle bars of the stationary cycle.

    I'll begin the third week after injury. For now I will continue working my ROM at home with the natural wait of my arm.

    Also hope I can eventually lay down on my left side.Some people say that they still can't lay down on their injured side after months after injury.
    A spotless bike is a bored bike.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacing08
    Thats for sure. I'll continue running treadmill and stationary cycling for the mean time once I feel my arm is a tad better. Right now I'm still too paranoid to be swaying my arm that much from jogging/running or putting wait down on the handle bars of the stationary cycle.

    I'll begin the third week after injury. For now I will continue working my ROM at home with the natural wait of my arm.

    Also hope I can eventually lay down on my left side.Some people say that they still can't lay down on their injured side after months after injury.
    Been 9 months for me, still can't sleep on my left side. But I can pull a tee shirt over my head using my left arm!
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  29. #129
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    The recovery was going great. 5 weeks from my grade 2 separation I was on the roadie without discomfort...

    On my third ride back I got collected by a car. Diagnosis: Grade 2 AC Separation - Same shoulder. Back to step 1.

    Son of a b#(ch.

  30. #130
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    Glad I found this thread. I am amazed at how many people there are with this type of injury. I suffered a Grade 4 separation a few weeks ago. The first ortho I went to said to just leave it alone and deal with it until scar tissue helped to stabilize the joint. A few days later, I got a second opinion from an ortho who specializes in shoulders and it seems there is a newer procedure out there that must be done within 2 weeks of the injury. It's similar to Weaver-Dunn, but they use metal buttons on top and bottom and very strong sutures to pull the bones back ino place. The ligaments are butted together and reattach and heal, which takes a long time because ligaments are nonvascular. You can be in a sling up to three months and then 9 months of PT. It was put to me that since I was very active to do the surgery, otherwise, just let it scar up. It's been two weeks since the surgery and the joint seems to be quieting down. Coughing and sneezing does not cause much movement anymore and I have confidence that it will heal up completely in time.

    Just wanted to let everyone know that there is another option out there for higher grade separations.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by cannonman
    Glad I found this thread. I am amazed at how many people there are with this type of injury. I suffered a Grade 4 separation a few weeks ago. The first ortho I went to said to just leave it alone and deal with it until scar tissue helped to stabilize the joint. A few days later, I got a second opinion from an ortho who specializes in shoulders and it seems there is a newer procedure out there that must be done within 2 weeks of the injury. It's similar to Weaver-Dunn, but they use metal buttons on top and bottom and very strong sutures to pull the bones back ino place. The ligaments are butted together and reattach and heal, which takes a long time because ligaments are nonvascular. You can be in a sling up to three months and then 9 months of PT. It was put to me that since I was very active to do the surgery, otherwise, just let it scar up. It's been two weeks since the surgery and the joint seems to be quieting down. Coughing and sneezing does not cause much movement anymore and I have confidence that it will heal up completely in time.

    Just wanted to let everyone know that there is another option out there for higher grade separations.
    Get well soon mate.

    I'd also have considered surgery if I had suffered a grade 4 AC separation. Luckily, mine wasn't so bad, even the second time around.

    All the literature I've read states that for grade 3 and above you'd be looking at a 12 week recovery period. Chin up!

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistedlizard720
    Snowboard crash causing separation: 12-5-2009
    Today 5-5-2010

    The last month my shoulder has been getting worse in terms of pain.

    Activity is pretty normal with the effected shoulder. Good range of motion. bump is bouncy and moves around when arm is moved. I am able to work out, but for every hour of working out, there is 3+ days of pain afterwards. Can't be out for multiple hours at a time, Example: denver auto show, after 2 hours of walking around pain was unbearable and had to go home. Normally starts out as a dull ache and escalates the longer I'm on my feet.

    I am actually needing some input of those who have had surgery. I am planning on seeing an orthopedic. I hear surgery puts you out for 6 months. Is there supposed to be pain with conservative healing? will there be this pain after surgery?

    Thanks for any input
    Hey, I was in the same boat as you with the throbbing pain that comes up the longer you are up so I thought I would respond. I dealt with healing a Grade III AC Sep for about 3 months without any intervention and then between 3 and 6 months my pain started getting worse and worse to the point of being unbearable just as yours has. I was sure that I was in need of surgery. Finally went back to the Ortho doc and he suggested first to try some physical therapy before moving to surgery. Within one week of starting PT with an actual Physical Therapist the unbearable pain like you are having went totally away and has not been a problem since. Thank god for physical therapy!

  33. #133
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    well I had a grade 3/4 about 10 years ago now. The bump is still there. I have a muscular/lean frame and I still cant get the shoulder built up 100% around it. I have full mobility and maybe a little less strength in left shoulder vs. right. It will always be noticable. I have just learned to love it! It makes for a great story!! You will get past it!

  34. #134
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    Update after 3.5 months:

    The pain never really when away. Dr. worried about rotator cuff tear. He called for a MRI, but for some reason I could not handle it so they did an arthrogram this morning. Rotator cuff is good! He said the scans showed an ac separation. But knew that from the beginning. The weird thing is that the separation is bigger now than it was before. My sister works in the imaging office and said it is 1.5cm apart, which is more than last time.

    I have to go back to my Dr. on Friday. I will ask him if it is a level 2 or 3 and why it got bigger. I think it is only a level 2 because I can't really move it around.

    It's been over 12 weeks. I wonder why I still have pain raising my arm or doing some over head work. Painting and sweeping with a push broom forget about it!

    Biking doesn't bother it, which is great.

  35. #135
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    I guess I get to be a member of team pointy shoulder too. IO went OTB yesterday and sustained a pretty obvious left shoulder separation as verified later on my xrays. Sucks with arm in sling everything is awkward, and as an auto mechanic I am off work for a good while.
    Worst part? I only got to ride on my new Magura Thor fork once, and it was working sooo good! Now I have to stare forlornly at it for awhile....

  36. #136
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    Update 5 weeks after my 2nd degree AC separation. I can crank out 25 push-ups and 7 chin-ups (close grip). The shoulder does not feel normal yet, the physio suggests that's still months away.

    Riding again which is good. Enjoying it too, more importantly.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by jathanas
    Update 5 weeks after my 2nd degree AC separation. I can crank out 25 push-ups and 7 chin-ups (close grip). The shoulder does not feel normal yet, the physio suggests that's still months away.

    Riding again which is good. Enjoying it too, more importantly.
    Can you use the affected arm to help put on a tee shirt? How about using that arm to shampoo your head in the shower? These were benchmarks I used. Ten months after my crash I can finally sleep for awhile on my affected shoulder. Woo hoo!
    So it seems to me to be, this thing that I think I see.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    Can you use the affected arm to help put on a tee shirt? How about using that arm to shampoo your head in the shower? These were benchmarks I used. Ten months after my crash I can finally sleep for awhile on my affected shoulder. Woo hoo!
    As of last week, I can answer YES to both your questions

    You don't know how valuable your right arm is in all hygiene & grooming activity until you must do without... Shave, toilet, shower, dressing up etc

    Still can't sleep on that side though, it still doesn't feel 100%

  39. #139
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    Hi guys - joined the club last monday in an OTB incident I can't remember most of!, saw consultant last night who confirmed grade 3 separation.

    Recommended waiting 2 weeks to see if it was recovering before deciding on surgical route or not, but said that it was too early to start physio in the meantime which didn't sound right to me.

    When did you start physio in your recovery phases?

    Mark

    Ac Separation (shoulder Separation)-xray.jpg
    Last edited by marko1480; 08-10-2010 at 09:14 AM. Reason: Added x-ray

  40. #140
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    I would get a second opinion. Find a doctor would specializes in Sport Medicine and shoulders. From what I know surgery is most successful when done within a couple of weeks of injury.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by marko1480
    Hi guys - joined the club last monday in an OTB incident I can't remember most of!, saw consultant last night who confirmed grade 3 separation.

    Recommended waiting 2 weeks to see if it was recovering before deciding on surgical route or not, but said that it was too early to start physio in the meantime which didn't sound right to me.

    When did you start physio in your recovery phases?

    Mark
    Your physio is right. The first 2 weeks of the injury are the inflammation & repair phase. It is important to rest your shoulder, and reduce inflammation during this time (ibuprofen during the first week).

    Usually a physio will recommend a sling or shoulder brace to keep the shoulder still during this period.

    The ultrasound, TENS, and exercises can start later.

  42. #142
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    Well I'm 8 weeks in to healing a type 2 AC seperation in my left shoulder, but the ortho wouldn't address it until the right arm radial head compression fracture healed. So I start PT today for 4-6 weeks 2 time a week. What I want to know is how has the after healing riding been? I currently ride full rigid.
    if you don't feel like riding, that's usually when you need it most

  43. #143
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    I'm 2 months out from a grade 3 AC separation. The doc (his specialty is shoulders) said he normally wouldn't operate but since I do sports 6-7 days per week, he wants to use a cadaver tendon to tie the clavicle and scapula together. I'll get a 2nd opinion in 9 days.

    On the weight machines my pulling (back) strength is about 70%, my pressing strength is only 15%-25% of my uninjured side. The wild card is that I'm 60 which means I should heal more slowly than a young person.

    Most of the posters above seem to recommend against surgery but without shoulder stability, I can't see my strength increasing much at all, especially since I've been lifting weights for 46 years and could do 1 arm chin ups until the injury.

    For the benefit of those injured in the future, I'll update my story when changes occurr..

  44. #144
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    Here is the xray from the day I went OTB on 4-3-10

    Ac Separation (shoulder Separation)-shoulder4-3-10small.jpg

    Here is it 3 months later. See how much further the separation is. I wonder why?
    Ac Separation (shoulder Separation)-shoulder7-12-10small.jpg

  45. #145
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    I'm seeing 2 different orthopedic surgeons next week about my grade 3 AC tear. Feel free to send me questions that you have about grade 3 AC tears. I'll add your questions to my list of questions and then report back on the forum with the doctors answers. My appts are Sept 15 and Sept 17.

    The first doc wants to use a cadaver tendon. I'm going to ask if there isn't a stronger synthetic material available. It will be my first appointment with the 2nd doc.

  46. #146
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    Since this keeps getting bumped up.....I'm a week or so away from two years out on my cat 3/4.

    I did not have surgery, partially because my job frowns on retained hardware/spare parts. But also because after 3-4 second opinions it felt like the Ortho Doc's really just wanted to do an uncommon surgery. Thing is that none of the surgeries actually repairs the ligaments. All going under the knife was trade the odd bump for a scar, and bring the two parts close together so you can have an operation later in life when the joint is terribly arthritic.

    I'm not a Doc, and far be it from me to imply they would rather do 20K worth of surgery rather than just send you home with a sling and a scrip for some narcotics...................

    That said my shoulder is stronger than it was prior. I only notice the separation when I sleep too long on that side or when doing things like wide grip pull ups.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  47. #147
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    G-reg

    You are correct about the ligaments. On a grade 3 the ligaments are completely torn and are useless. The surgical procedure my doc suggests uses a cadaver tendon to tie the clavicle and scapula together. Prior to the grade 3 AC tear, 2 ligaments secured the clavicle to the scapula.

    My doc was opposed to surgery the day after the injury. I was the one who wanted the surgery, not him. Because of the number of sports I do (wakeboard, kiteboard, jui jitsu, surf) he said I was not the usual case and that the surgery would help me.

    My injured side lifts approx. 20% as much as the uninjured side on pressing motions and lifts 70% on pulling motions. The injured area muscles haven't gotten weaker. The muscles are still strong but are not able to exhibit strength now that the bones are no longer tied together to stabilize the shoulder. Any pressing movement, even 10lbs is very herky jerky.

    I haven't made my final decision but surgery seems like the best choice for me.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Head
    G-reg

    ..... cadaver tendon to tie the clavicle and scapula together........
    Note that there is a big difference between tie and repair. The surgery won't really gain you the stability back. Surgery or not it is muscles compensating and the scar tissue that encapsulates the blown up ligaments that eventually brings back stability.

    Also think about the forces that popped those ligaments in the first place. Would the surgically repaired shoulder take that hit?

    The one ortho I saw described it like this: "I don't know how religious a man you are so I don't want to offend you.....But the AC joint is more from the swinging from trees section of evolution."

    Just make sure you are getting something beneficial from going under the knife.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  49. #149
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    G-reg thanks for the reply.
    I am 64 days out with no shoulder stability. If I forego surgery, what type of time range do you think before I notice some shoulder stability?

    Does the scar tissue form on each torn ligament to reattach them together and reestablish the connection of scapula to clavicle? I'm lifting every day and I haven't noticed any muscle compensation yet as movements are herky jerky. I'm seeing a 2nd doctor next week. Hopefully I'll be armed with intelligent questions from what I've learned from you and others on the forum. My first doc didn't say much. Thanks again.

  50. #150
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    At two months I was still pretty unstable, no pain anymore but I had to be careful. If I recall correctly one of the surgeries can actually kinda repair one of the ligaments IF done within 24hrs of the injury. Otherwise those three ligaments are toast. The scarring encapsulates the ends of the clavicle and scapula-nubbin, the ligaments doing nothing anymore. Muscles will eventually compensate, as if the clavicle was never there.

    At two months if you are able to work out enough to determine that you are still herky-jerky....you're probably doing pretty well. Give it some more time, maybe get on a dedicated PT program.

    Good luck with the second opinion, make sure to say "this guy on the internet said" as much as possible.
    Slowly slipping to retrogrouchyness

  51. #151
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    I separated mine (Grade 3) 6 weeks ago, after 12 days of that pain we all know!! It was feeling better. After a few visits to the hospital. I was offered the Opp by the surgeon and advised of the complications. After much research, and if I'm honest the thought of that lump on my shoulder forever. I decided to go for the operation (Weaver Dunn), Was done 4 weeks ago today. Recovery was going fine until this week at PT, I informed them that i was getting pins and needles in my little finger and my ring finger and that I had shooting pains at my shoulder and neck. I was given some tests and some new exercises to do. I was told I have some sort of nerve damage/ trapped nerve. and that I need to go to the doctors and get some Amitriptyline. I don't like taking painkillers and have taken the minimum (When waking at night) amount throughout the recovery. I checked them out and don't really want to go down this road.


    http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1244885-overview

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?clien...Apm8jAeVz_zJBw

    On returning home I researched and found that the nerve in question is the Ulnar Nerve, (from your shoulder around your elbow to your wrist then fingers) And that I may have ulnar nerve entrapment. I was sure this was a consequence of the Opp. (Bugger) After some more digging I found that this could have happened

    Because the elbow was immobilised for a length of time.

    I was not told this by the surgeon or the PT that visited me after the Opp??
    Can't seem to find any similar experiences, Yet I feel this information should be out there. I am hoping to get an appointment the next few days or next week to discus the matter with the surgeon..

    I would say "be careful of the amount of time you immobilise your elbow wouldn't want this to happen to anybody else.....Ask your doc about it".

    Hopefully if its not degenerative, I can sort this with good PT..... Really Not looking forward to another Opp



    Les T Morris Age 43

  52. #152
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    Got my separation a week ago Saturday....OH WHAT FUN...Pain is a LOT better now and I am 10 days in and not wearing the sling all of the time...doctors said use it as needed...sling was driving me nutz! Feels like a migraine in my shoulder now instead of an elephant sitting on it. The first day it happened...I couldn't even get out of a chair without agonizing pain..getting out of the bed was an adventure as it was on an air mattress in a tent...Grade 3...the bone opposite the collar bone isn't totally under the collar bone...so it isn't a full Grade 3...but I do have the bump and it...HURTS

  53. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by flogger13
    Recovery was going fine until this week at PT, I informed them that i was getting pins and needles in my little finger and my ring finger and that I had shooting pains at my shoulder and neck.
    That's a bummer. Don't feel completely left out though. It seems that my arm falls asleep much fast on the effected arm. I sometimes worry about nerve damage and blood flow. At this point I am 10 months post of the separation, 2 months post PT which made a great difference. At this time I am not getting surgery, but it may be an option in the future if things continue to degrade.

  54. #154
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    lev 4





    just happen, lev 4...doc said no surg and just to tack it ez....really. had mri and e-xray.

  55. #155
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  57. #157
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    2 orthopedic surgeons told me that I had a grade 3 AC tear. I got an MRI.
    Since I had no strength in my arm and couldn't play any sports, I opted for Weaver-Dunn surgery 10 weeks after sustaining the injury. I requested a copy of the surgery report which said that I had a grade 5, not a grade 3. Apparently that wasn't evident to the surgeons by looking at the x-rays and MRI.

    When I see the doctor again (5 weeks after surgery), hopefully he'll tell me to discard the sling and start rehab. The surgery took a lot of energy out of me. I went to the gym 11 days after surgery to lift with my good arm. I wasn't very strong. When I went home I collapsed and slept for 2.5 hours and woke up feeling exhausted. I guess my body has marshalled its resources to heal my shoulder and doesn't have the energy for other physical demands.

  58. #158
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    Did my grade 2 separation in June. Within 6 weeks I was back on the bike. The shoulder was nowhere near 100% but I kept at it, finding satisfaction in the small progress I was making.

    4 months out and I'm much better. I can sleep on it! Pushups and chin-ups are still a little weird. MTBing is fun again and I've nearly regained full confidence on the descents

    Helpful tip: I'm doing kettlebell workouts and they've done wonders for shoulder stabilisation.

  59. #159
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    Type 4

    This is a type III injury with avulsion of the coracoclavicular ligament from the clavicle, with the distal clavicle displaced posteriorly into or through the trapezius. This injury is generally acknowledged to require surgery.

  60. #160
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    lol....I came across this thread while researching if my collar bone is going to permanently stick up. Guess I found out the answer is yes!

    My story: August 2010. Won a work trip to Lake Tahoe, took a close friend of mine. We are staying at the Ritz Carlton in Truckee (North Tahoe) and are looking for something to do. We look up the mountain and see a bunch of dudes going up the lift with bikes.

    We talk to the biking guy and he suggests if we want to take it up a notch, we do downhill. This is after a several red bull and vodkas, so it sounds like a good call. Mind you I've never mountain biked before and had limited BMX experience up until I was 16 (10 years ago).

    I figured things were going to turn out bad since I kept on landing on my front wheel and couldn't fix it. I made it down about halfway before I flipped over my handlebars, not sure what happened since I blacked out.

    I somehow made it down the hill and thought I dislocated my shoulder. Had some really nasty road rash all down my back too. Since it was the first day of the vacation, I chose not to go to the hospital and just party it off. It really sucked.

    Finally got back home, went to the doc. Grade 3 separation, borderline grade 4. I still feel it and need to get back into lifting after a few months off. Oh, and I'm never touching a freaking mountain bike again...lol.

  61. #161
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    I never had any physical therapy, and no fancy doctors or doctors I couild understand in China. Thank god, no bump... but even more so seems pretty useable a year later... believe in your body. Hope you guys are ok too,

  62. #162
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    I was in a sling for 5 weeks after surgery for my grade 5. The doc said to throw away the sling and to rehab. He said I could lift light weights like 5lbs. I used to curl 30lbs dumbbells but now 5lbs is too heavy! I'm using 3lbs until I get stronger. A 1st grader could handle more.

    Normally one has about 30% more strength in the eccentric part of the lift vs the concentric part of the lift. That is, if one could curl 100lbs, one should be able to resist while lowering 130lbs. Oddly, I have noticeably more strength in the concentric part of the lift vs. the eccentric. I can curl 3lbs ok but lowering the dumbbell is very shaky.

  63. #163
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    Everyone is giving updates, so I'll give mine.

    Grade 4 - Opted for the surgery. If done within 2 weeks, the surgeon said that there is a good chance that the ligaments will reattach and heal, just like when you get stitches to push the sides of a laceration together. Mine was done 1 week out from the accident. The procedure was the AC Tightrope. You can see the procedure at http://actightrope.orthoillustrated.com.

    Was in a sling for 3 months to allow the ligaments enough time to heal. I'm two months into therapy, this week being my last. Most of my range of motion has returned. The shoulder feels normal now, just that the muscles are still sore as they are rebuilding strength. As for the bump, everything looks great so far. I've been using Mederma on the scars and it does a great job of reducing them. I honestly don't know why everyone is so up in arms about having a scar anyway. Does everyone here have secret modeling contracts?

  64. #164
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    I have a grade 2 A-C separation, just happened last Saturday in Pisgah (ended a long overdue mountain trip early). Went to ER, got the x rays. Spoken with a couple of Dr. friends, they said take it easy for the first couple of weeks, then use it as I can. Not much of a lump yet, but I hear that will come with the scar tissue.
    The part that really sucks is the thought of dragging that damn trainer out of the attic so I can get some pedal time in.
    Good luck to those in my boat. At least cold weather is almost upon us.
    c

  65. #165
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    funny that this is my first post on mtbr......but i joined the club.........1/31 i took a jump on my bike, front wheel hit the mud on the landing, stuck and sent me flying. luckily for me my right shoulder was kind enough to take the fall for me. went to er and then to ortho next day. unbelievable pain - ortho says stage 3 w/no surgery and 6 weeks to recover (not be completely normal by then but really light activity till then). my wife wants me to have the surgery because she is worried that 30 years from now i won't be able to move my shoulder due to the lack of ligaments. what do i tell her?

    enjoy, jason

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by freemanhoodlum
    funny that this is my first post on mtbr......but i joined the club.........1/31 i took a jump on my bike, front wheel hit the mud on the landing, stuck and sent me flying. luckily for me my right shoulder was kind enough to take the fall for me. went to er and then to ortho next day. unbelievable pain - ortho says stage 3 w/no surgery and 6 weeks to recover (not be completely normal by then but really light activity till then). my wife wants me to have the surgery because she is worried that 30 years from now i won't be able to move my shoulder due to the lack of ligaments. what do i tell her?

    enjoy, jason

    Here is my suggestion. Talk with your ortho again and see what the differences are between surgery now and surgery one year from now or even beyond that. Then make a decision.

    A little input. I saw an ortho two weeks ago and he told me they could have reconstructed the joint within the first 6 weeks (which my ortho 14 months ago failed to mention). Now my only option is the Weaver-Dunn procedure which he explained is more of a patch job. The thing I didn't like was the ortho said surgery may solve my issues completely or just ease the pain a little. It wasn't a firm answer like I was seeking. I am 14 months post injury and if I knew about reconstruction then, I would have had surgery right away.

    I am in a position where I can go either way. I tend to be on a constant rollercoaster. Pain gets worse, I do PT and it bets better. It has really been bugging me lately (again) and plan to start physical therapy (again). I'm going on a short deployment here in a couple weeks. That will give me a good idea if I can hang as is, or need surgery. It really puts a damper on my activities I enjoy.

    I am curious what results everyone else has had long term with their choice, and what kind of pain they have, if any?

    My bump now

    Last edited by twistedlizard720; 02-05-2011 at 10:35 PM.

  67. #167
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    I would go see an Orthopedic Surgeon with a Sports Medicine background.

    My AC was a grade 3/4. The clavicle had penetrated almost thru the skin.

    I had Anatomically correct tight rope procedure.
    It has a long recovery time, but is one of the strongest repairs.

    It will take about 1 year for full recovery.

    I am very happy with the results.

  68. #168
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    I dont know about surgery. I was pretty ****ed up. It was embarrasing and painful. I couldnt **** by my self or even move my arm for like5 days. After the wreck, I had to try to gather my shti so the villigars wouldnt rob me or see my injury as a sign of weakness and rob me.

    I got to the hospital. Seen some poor gu with a broken back. No pain medication , insurance or money. He was in pain. At one point I cried a little ( I should say that at that time I had sleep deprevation, like sleepng 3-4 hours a night for months) shouldnt have been on a 30 krede to work...

    Hells no I didnt want to have an operation on a serious part of my body like that. With all of mankinds so called expertise. I had a serious brace. Kept my arm immobile for about a week. Sometimes would but this horse collar brace on to alleviate the pain. Now, more than a year later... Everything is pretty cool. Sometimes wearing a back pack is not so comforatble as before.. but I cant say for sure.

    I am having thoughts of joining the French foreign Legion. At one point in my life I joinded the US af special forces team, and know that its a good workout. I am wondering if my shoulder could handle the training.

    It sure would be nice to hae a new identity from some country other than the US that would provide social benefits for my children.

  69. #169
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    i thank you guys for the replies...i believe i have an appt w/the ortho in 2 days at which point it will be 2 weeks from the injury. i am progressing pretty well - range of motion coming back but no real strength - except for sleeping which has to be done upright w/pain med. and the achiness! man i went w/out the sling for the most part of yesterday and by the end of the day my entire shoulder was tired and aching. i guess that's just part of the body adapting to no ligaments in the shoulder area?

    thanks for all the info on this thread.

    jason

  70. #170
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    I would advise against operations. MAny sports doctors dont recommend operations, and the specialists I shpwed my exray also recommended healing naturally . I have no bumb. yyou can see my xrays earlier in this thread. The doctors locally in China said I needed them and would never be able to use my arm to reach up. They were wrong.Im good. Save your money. It hurts like hell and will for a while, but youll bounce back.

  71. #171
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    i spoke w/the ortho surgeon's office again today and they advised against surgery as well unless it was absolutely needed. their rationale being that why operate if you can return your shoulder to acceptable levels w/out it. when i asked about 30 - 40 yrs down the road their answer was the same as mine - deal w/that then IF it's a problem

    how long did you guys stay away from other cardio; i.e. running/eliptical/etc

    thanks again,
    jason

  72. #172
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    MAn I dont know how bad yours feels.. Id say like the first 3 days I couldnt move it, It happened on a friday if I remember....For the first day it hurt pretty bad. Ive never broke a bone so I cant compare... on Monday I had to take a day off work as a teacher. I couldnt afford to take off tuesday, it was hell. Had to take the bus instead of my bike. I had this figure 8 collar brace type thing that I wore fora week... and only after when the pain was returning. o had a sling for the first week... but mainly couldnt move my arm. I cant recall how long... read back through these posts. I took it pretty easy for a couple of weeks before getting back into it. Just whatever you do dont push it. I had no therapy, other than life.

  73. #173
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    yeah, mine was probably the worst pain i've ever felt - and i've broken plenty of bones - it nearly made me pass out and throw up several times. the hospital here gave me pain med - i don't know how you made it w/out it! it seems my range of motion is coming back pretty well - i'm actually surprised - but don't wanna screw something up and set myself back! i've had the sling on for the better part of 2 weeks now. heck, i can actually type w/my right hand now (moving the arm around) compared to when it first hapened i couldn't even walk w/out pain for the first 3 days and that was w/pain meds! i guess i'll start slowly here and see how it goes!

    thanks!

  74. #174
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    Yeah I can remember hearing your description. Whatever you do dont push it. I wouldnt try any therapy. When it hurtsm stop moving it. Try to rest it in a position you want it to heal in. Take a lot of some kind of standard pain med... advil like... youll heal. The body is amazing.

  75. #175
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    I got the same advice with my Grade 3 AC separation. In fact I saw three different docs and they all said the same thing - let it go on its own and see how you do. (One of the doctors actually had the same injury on BOTH sides.) Do I like the permanent deformation of my shoulder? Heck no - at times that makes me wish I could have had it fixed. However, almost four years later, it functions at 99% of what it did.

    Took about 3 months of rest/recovery before I got back on the bike. 6 months I was back to 90% of strength/motion. One year later I was at about 98% back to normal. It looks bad, but it works fine.

  76. #176
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    We gave my grade 3 12 weeks of therepy, it didn't heal. Saw the (highly recommended and referred) doctor group yesterday, we're scheduling the surgery today for a couple weeks out. I'm really looking forward to getting this fixed, most painful, annoying, debilitating injury I've ever had.
    c

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by carter1
    We gave my grade 3 12 weeks of therepy, it didn't heal. Saw the (highly recommended and referred) doctor group yesterday, we're scheduling the surgery today for a couple weeks out. I'm really looking forward to getting this fixed, most painful, annoying, debilitating injury I've ever had.
    c
    i hate to hear that. one way or another it will be good to move past this injury. i would have never thought how much a shoulder injury could affect everything you do until this happened! good luck w/the surgery.

  78. #178
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    well, update, i'm a month out of grade 3 separation and did not have surgery. i can do most things normally, w/about 80 - 90% rom, but my strength is slow to recover. i am doing rehab at home w/the "rubber bands" (which work quite well, btw), have begun riding again on easier trails and felt completely comfortable. i ran for the first time yesterday and was pain free. i can't sleep on the side at all and haven't tried. stillhave the nasty bump on the shoulder, but that's ok.

    i can do most exercises w/very little weight and can do push ups from my knees w/out pain. all in all i'd say God is good to me the clunky shoulder is a bit wierd to get used to but i barely notice it now.

    good luck to all in recovery!

    jason

  79. #179
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    Hi all,

    I'm 6 days into my grade 3 separation, and cant get over the amount of contradictory information out there. It's like opinion on every aspect of it is 50/50 (early rest v active PT, surgery or rehab, sling or no sling, healing ligaments vs non-healing). Even doctors don't seem to agree.

    I think there's some myths about AC separation, the biggest being that AC ligaments can't heal.
    This isn't true. They are just like any other ligament. that's not to sat that they will heal well, or completely in all cases, but they don't just snap and that's the end of it. That's why some say the best time to operate is the first 10-14 days following the injury as this is before the healing process is too far underway.

    The operation itself is designed to move the bones closer together in order to heal better, this is why they usually remove screws post-operatively after about 12 weeks because by this time the ligaments have usually knitted back where they are supposed to be.

    info on ligament repair mechanism here

    For those of us electing to go without surgery, I think we can do a few things to put the odds in our favour. I'm not a doctor, and this is the first AC separation I've had, but this will be my approach based on the idea of allowing the ligaments time to heal in alignment.

    immobilize the shoulder for 3 weeks
    use PT tape to support the joint, and pull the clavicle down into position. Use a sling and spend as much time in a position that reduces the bump. avoid standing as much as possible as the weight of the arm increases the gap between the clavicle and acromion. I find when I lie down and push my elbow up, the bump almost disappears. In this position is where I want to heal and where I want to spend as much time as possible.

    start light physio in weeks 4-8
    Keep the arm immobilised as much as possible but also do some exercises that will keep the joint moving. very light movement. Absolutely no movement above shoulder height. Some light riding may be possible. put the arm in sling when not using it, the ligaments are still knitting together.

    Remove sling increase physio and start light off-road riding week 8-12

    build strength 12 weeks +
    after 8-12 weeks the ligaments will be as good as they are going to get and its time to build strength and get out riding again

    Of course, all may not go to plan, ligaments may not heal properly, or I may still have chronic pain, but I think it helps me to have recovery plan and some milestones.

    I'll keep you posted on whether this works or if I got it all wrong.

    -G
    Last edited by g00mba; 03-22-2011 at 04:00 AM.

  80. #180
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    My Story

    So I injured my shoulder in July 2010. I though I dislocated my shoulder when I drove myself to the hospital. They xrayed my shoulder and said that it wasn't dilocated, it was separated (type 3). The er doc put me in a sling and told me to see an ortho for surgery on Monday.

    I went to the first ortho and the first question she asked me was what I did for a living. She then told me that I didn't need my shoulder for my line of work and that I should let it heal on its own. I wanted a second opinion.

    Went to second doc who also asked me what I did for a living. He also said that he doesn;t rec surgery and I should let it heal on its own. i tried to push for surgery but he convinced me to wait 8 weeks to see how it heals. 8 weeks later I went back and still wanted surgery. He sent me to a third doc.

    Third doc also asked me what I do for a living. I replied, "Why does my vocation dictate my course of treatment? I want my shoulder fixed." This doc performed a modified Weaver-Dunn. He used surgical tape and shaved off a little from my collar bone.

    I am 16 weeks post surgery. No bump, big scar (so what), and full range of motion. I am slowly getting my strength back. I'm at about 60% There is still some movement/instability in my shoulder.

    My advice to anyone in this situation....
    DEMAND surgery immediately. I wasted 16 weeks before I got surgery. I believe I would have been so much better off had they gone in and fixed me immediately.

    DEMAND SURGERY. (screw the scar.)

  81. #181
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    good luck with it is all i can say.. got flipped over the bars on my bike back in april 07... landed square on my shoulder (230lbs of me),,,,,,, collar bone was about an inch high out at the arm (humerous/scapula)... by the time i got to the hospital in the back of the bumpy ambulance it had popped about half way back into place... they put ice on it and by the time the doctor seen me it was pretty normal looking.....
    so anyways got a ride home with my ex at the time, it hurt pretty bad and was really hard to get out of the cushy couches we had at the time....
    so i took that week off work and just kept using it how ever much i could (being nice to it)... had to go back to work the following monday and didnt have a choice but to use the arm.... it got better EVERYDAY i used it.... within a couple weeks it was fully movable and only gave me pain every so often...
    the collar bone is still about a 1/2" high now but works fine w/ no pain .... it took about 6 months or so before i stopped haveing twinges of pain at certain postions of my arm...
    good luck with it and do what ever you think is right...
    oh and this is the MOST PAINFUL INJURY IVE EVER HAD !!!! (head truma, broken cheek bone,concusion x 3,wisdom teeth all at once)
    Last edited by qkenuf4u; 03-22-2011 at 08:13 PM.

  82. #182
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    Well, I just joined this club 3-31-2011. My experience seems a bit different here so far. I am 49 and have been abusing my self for some time now. I took a spill on a paved bike path in a city park. I won a class III full AC separation. It hurt bad the first few hours. What struck me was how familiar the pain was. I realized I have been tearing away at these ligaments for some time. The last time I hit them hard was around 14 months ago when I dismounted from an ATV on an ice covered road. No big crash, just landed right on the shoulder. It hurt like hell for a long time, but no visable separation so I just toughed it out like always. When I had this last bout, I must have been down to a very low percentage of ligament left because the pain is subsiding very fast. I crashed on a Thursday night and was back in the mountains riding with a pack and all on Sunday. Would have been Saturday but it was rainy and cold. Back at work hanging commercial cabinets on Monday. Still some pain but way less than last time. X-ray showed a 40mm or so drop of the shoulder but no broken bones. I know we all talk about the "bump" but it really appears that the clavicle is where it is supposed to be and the rest of the shoulder has dropped, because it is no longer supported by the clavicle. I am working out of town so I have not had a chance to consult an Ortho yet, but will soon just to make sure I know all the options.
    Has any body else had the same result of relatively low pain and quick recovery? If I didn't have the obviuos deformation, I wouldn't have thought twice about this. 25 years of racing through the rocky and steep mountains and I get this in a city park

  83. #183
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    [Has any body else had the same result of relatively low pain and quick recovery? If I didn't have the obviuos deformation, I wouldn't have thought twice about this. 25 years of racing through the rocky and steep mountains and I get this in a city park[/QUOTE]

    i didn't have the cool part of your injury, that being little pain in the beginning - because it was awful. but i have had a bad shoulder for many years. but when the pain started going away, it went away in huge chunks. i'm a little over 3 months out of my injury and have been back to complete normal aside from about 5% reduction in r.o.m. for over a month and a half. strength's back, everything. no surgery here, just simple rest, then rehab, a bunch of prayers, and the doc said i was good to go. he said from the word go that if it didn't hurt i could do it and that sounds like where you're at! good luck!

    jason

  84. #184
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    I caused this same exact injury to my left shoulder about 5 years ago as well. I say caused because my dumbass grabbed too much front brake and went head first over the bars at about 20-25 mph. Luckily my reflexes are quick and instead of hitting my head, I rolled quickly to land on my shoulder.

    I will tell you that I never had any surgery and I was back to "normal" within about 3 months. I still to this day have the "bump" where my clavicle sticks up, but I have no pain, ever, and I military press with 80-85 lb. dumbbells to this very day.

    The pain will be with you for quite some time, but it will go away and you WILL get back to feeling great again.

    In fact, I recommend a supplement called "Osteobolin C" or "Osteosport." Both are made by the same company, and as far as I'm concerned it's a miracle supplement for joints, ligaments and tendons. I used to have tendonitis about and tennis elbow to the extreme when I started lifting again about about 2 years ago. I started taking Osteobolin C and could INSTANTLY feel relief day by day. Now, I don't even take it anymore and I have ZERO pain from tendonitus. I'm not a sales rep for them by any means, but I can assure you the product works. The key ingredient in it is called "cissus." You can find a ton out about it.

    Anyhow...that's my rant...

  85. #185
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    I had a Grade 2 (self diagnosed) separation while doing some gravity riding. Digger into a rock garden at about 15mph, landed right on my left shoulder. Immediate pain, weakness, general nausea. Could get even lift my arm above my belly button. Stopped on the way to get a sling, and rested. Day after hurt even worse, for about 2 weeks I could not use my left arm at all. After the initial inflammation went down, I started doing some diagnostics. There are many resources online to research (although I always recommend talking to licensed medical professionals), and I diagnosed with a Grade 2 with subscapularis tear. I could feel the unstable AC joint when pushing on my scapula, and I used the degree of pain to judge how healed the joint was. When I felt it was strong enough to try some light rehab, I immediately worked in some VERY light rotator cuff rehab. This was about 2 months after my initial injury. I could do light riding at this point, just no serious movements or hard pulls on the bars. I was 95% after 4 months. It is now about 6 months later, and except for another real light reinjury of the same joint, my shoulder is 100%. The labral tear on my right shoulder, however, is another story.

    Bottom line, take it easy, get your diet dialed, and your body will do its thing.
    "If you want to do something ordinary people can't, you have to be willing to do what ordinary people won't"

  86. #186
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    The doctor released from me from the sling today! Still a long way to go, but at least I've shed the last of the "bandaging." Doc says the healing has gone well-the past 6 weeks of misery has paid off and I'm ready to start more movement and strengthening over the next 6 weeks.
    Be careful out there.
    c

  87. #187
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    and now......it squeaks, not an exaggeration-it really squeaks when I move the shoulder back and forth. I guess that's better than not being able to move it!
    c

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by carter1
    and now......it squeaks, not an exaggeration-it really squeaks when I move the shoulder back and forth. I guess that's better than not being able to move it!
    c
    Get some White Lithium Grease, put it in a syringe, and inject in sockett! LOL!

    No, seriously look into the Osteobolin C supplement I was talking to...it will work wonders for you.

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by radials
    Get some White Lithium Grease, put it in a syringe, and inject in sockett! LOL!

    No, seriously look into the Osteobolin C supplement I was talking to...it will work wonders for you.

    What does the Osteobolin C supplement do?

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by tracerprix
    What does the Osteobolin C supplement do?
    I don't want to drop any spam on the forums, but if you'll Google "Osteobolin C by Applied Nutriceuticals" you will find their site. In fact, I advocate just about any product they sell. I am a weight lifter amongst other activities (MTB, longboarding, swimming, etc). I used to have tendonitis VERY bad, and now I no longer have it due to, I believe, taking the Osteobolin C for about 3 months.

    Here is an excerpt from their website:

    "Osteobolin-C approaches joint support from a completely unique angle. The primary ingredient in Osteobolin-C is Cissus Quadrangularis, a powerful Ayurvedic herb that has been proven in published laboratory research to promote bone and connective tissue repair.

    The active phytosterols in Osteobolin-C also promotes healthy muscle tissue due to the pronounced anti-catabolic effects of blocking cortisol. Osteobolin-C users experience dramatic reduction in joint pain and increased mobility, along with accelerated recovery time after rigorous training or injury."



    * Aids in the recuperation and regeneration of cartilage, tendons, and joints
    * Suppresses cortisol and promotes nutrient delivery into connective tissue
    * A potent anti-catabolic that speeds recovery and supports lean muscle

  91. #191
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    I'll try it.

  92. #192
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    I'm back!!!

    My buddy that drug me out of the woods and to the hospital turned 40 Saturday and did a 40 mile all surface ride to celebrate. I got permission from my PT to ride 5 easy miles on the road with the group.

    A little sore, nothing a beer couldn't take care of. Unbelievable how your perspective changes after 6 months off of a bike (after 45 year of riding). One of the best rides of my life. It will be a while before I'm off road, but at least its a start.

    c

  93. #193
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    Mine is minor compared to you guys. Washed out on a corner on a road ride mid-February on some sand/salt and landed on my right shoulder. ER said minor separation, didn't give me a grade. Put me in a sling and basically told me it would be fine in a week or two. No bump, 2 1/2 months later there is a small one and it's very tender. Riding normally doesn't hurt, putting the bike on the truck/wall rack hurts a ton. Limited range of motion; I can't take a shirt off normally. Due to being a poor grad student with state funded health insurance, there was a wait to get into another doctor. Have an appointment in a couple weeks.

    Should a separation that the ER doc said was so minor really not feel any better after 10 weeks?

  94. #194
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    @ ICAsh - You should have good to full range of motion and maybe some minor pain when your arm is extended high over your head. I suffered a Grade 2/Grade 3 separation in a race Feb. 13th of this year. Doc said NO sling - need to keep it moving. Started riding week 3. I now have full range of motion with some minor pain at full extension over my head. Some minor clicking/popping that's not painful just annoying. Nice large bump to scare off the kids. Others I have talked to said it takes a long time before pain goes away, but it will for the most part. Everybody is different. Don't worry and keep moving your shoulder and keep riding! Good luck.

  95. #195
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    Grade V-VI ac separation

    Here is my Xray

    No surgery for now per Dr.Karas, the shoulder Guru of Atlanta. In 3 months IF i am not happy w/ the recovery, he then can perform surgery. We'll see. It's only been 3 weeks and i've ridden on the road and trail. I'm going to PT tomorrow.

  96. #196
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    I tried a lot of taping to the shoulder in the early weeks to reduce the joint after reading this thread:
    http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showt...ighlight=joint

    I was really hoping I'd get lucky, but It didn't work for me, but it may be worth a try. I still tape it now after 10 weeks in the vain hope that scar tissue will keep the shoulder down. My bump is very prominent. My x-ray looks like the one above. although my bones seem to overlap more.

    I'm able to do pretty much everything now, but with some pain. Riding a bike is pretty good, but pulling up on the bars or braking hard is painful. I started off-road riding after 5 weeks and each ride feels better than the last. I've not taken a tumble yet, and I'm riding on flats just so to give myself a better chance if I go over.

    I've seen 2 surgeons, The first said leave it and see how it goes. 8 weeks post-injury the second surgeon told me it was a pretty bad separation and that he thought that I'd be back at some point to get it fixed. In the UK the waiting list is 6-12 months.

    The recovery after surgery is much longer than the non-surgery route. My surgeon told me 6 months to a year before it feels normal. 4 weeks in a sling, 4 weeks of no movement above shoulder height, then lots and lots of therapy.

    I think I'll go for it though. I hate the bump and so does the wife. It doesn't make me feel tough or cool. It just makes me feel sick

  97. #197
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    Update. Crashed in mid-February directly on my right shoulder. ER doc said minor separation (didn't give a grade), put me in a sling, and told me it would be better in a couple weeks. I felt like it was a "here's a bandaid, quit being a baby" response, but my insurance sucks so I had a wait to visit a primary care doc. I finally had an appointment yesterday.

    They did a new set of xrays and said it was probably tendonitis, and sent me to physical therapy today. The PT told me that Ortho had looked at both new and old xrays, and since the new ones were at a slightly different angle, they could see a collarbone fracture that you can't see in the original ones. So, no wonder I'm still hurting. It's healing, and small enough that they wouldn't have treated it much differently, but it would have been nice to know, and I probably could have started PT sooner. And the separation is still there.

    My insurance lets me do 60 days of PT as often as they want to see me, so I have 3 appointments in the next 2 weeks and we will assess from there. Got a big dose of anti-inflammatory via iontophoresis (2 more next week), and I'm supposed to take 1200mg of ibuprofen a day, plus ice and some stretching exercises. Luckily riding doesn't bother it, so I'm not off the bike. Focus is getting the inflammation down so I can regain some strength and range of motion. I just want to be able to lift my bike up onto the truck again!

  98. #198
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    Sucks

    ICASH...It sucks that you had to wait that long to start PT. My suggestion is to do the PT religiously.

    Update on my condition....I saw the shoulder surgeon this morning and he cleared me to do whatever i want. I started PT a week after i injured my shoulder. So i did three weeks of PT 2x/week and the improvement on my strenght and ROM is obvious. I'm getting stronger and will continue to do PT at home. Good luck to those in the same boat and do your PT.

  99. #199
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    first single track ride yesterday since my injury last November. Longest my bikes have been out of the woods in a long long time-6 months and 2 weeks. Walked stuff I haven't walked in 35 years of riding in the woods! It's ok though, I rode
    be careful out there.
    c

  100. #200
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    Carter... i hear what you're saying bro. I walked stuff that i was like "really?" but at least we r riding in the wood. Yeah, be careful and be safe.

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