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  1. #1
    drunken pirate
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    What is going on at Fisherman's?

    Is it now part of North Mills River Trail? No longer a poach?

    There is a brown gate at the entrance at the bridge that looks a lot like a forest service gate, the double red private property blazes have been painted over with gray, and there has been gravel drainage and armoring work done down the entire length of the trail, including the crossings. Sort of looks ready for logging.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by driftwood
    Is it now part of North Mills River Trail? No longer a poach?

    There is a brown gate at the entrance at the bridge that looks a lot like a forest service gate, the double red private property blazes have been painted over with gray, and there has been gravel drainage and armoring work done down the entire length of the trail, including the crossings. Sort of looks ready for logging.
    It was probably due to all the misguided wet weather riding that happens here.

  3. #3
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    Brushy Ridge, the logging project still pending for that area, is not at a stage when any prep work should be happening. If the project moves forward, however, logging will be happening in that vicinity...BUT

    To my knowledge, Fisherman's trail is on private property- the same propety owner who is re-modeling the old lodge last time I was through. Last I knew, (EDITTED inaccurate info) there was some plans to some day develop this tract of land. There was a thread about the proposed plans for the property about 5 years ago, I'll do a search and see if I can find it.

    So, guessing that the work you saw is the result of the actions of the private property owner, not USFS.
    Last edited by Mike Brown; 01-04-2011 at 02:22 PM.

  4. #4
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    Old thread here:North Mills River Development
    As edited above, not Mr. Anthony, that was a false recollection.
    Read the linked Hendersonville Times article for more info. I have no idea or recollection of what the end result of all this was.

    EDIT AGAIN!!

    Did some more research for yinz and myself. The old development plans were pulled. Here's the linky:
    http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/...NEWS/703160350

    Couldn't find anything more specific, but hopefully this is still all true and whoever owns the land, lodge, and Fisherman's trail is doing it the right way...

    mb
    Last edited by Mike Brown; 01-04-2011 at 02:36 PM.

  5. #5
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    http://www.carolinamountain.org/news...ig-creek-lodge

    Looks like it is secured! The CMLC is a great organization doing A LOT around here in terms of conservation and they seem to care about mountain bikers too.

  6. #6
    drunken pirate
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianwilliamse
    http://www.carolinamountain.org/news...ig-creek-lodge

    Looks like it is secured! The CMLC is a great organization doing A LOT around here in terms of conservation and they seem to care about mountain bikers too.
    Thanks for the link, very good news indeed

    It still isn't clear to me who owns the land right now but it should be part of Pisgah NF by FY2012. I always hated poaching that stretch so this is a relief. I'd say we need to make sure it is open for bikes but I'm sure the horse lobby is on it so we'll get it by default!

    I'm still curious about the work I saw on North Mills River trail as well as Yellow Gap and Lower Trace. I'm guessing it was done by CMLC and/or Trout Unlimited to try and stop some of that sediment from getting in the river. Big kudos to them!
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  7. #7
    drunken pirate
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    I talked to a law enforcement officer parked at the bridge yesterday and he said that the gated road is now open to all users. It is CMLC property and they are allowing public access . He said that bikes and horses probably should not be taking the high trail through the field.... I'm going to write the CMLC a letter thanking them
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  8. #8
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    Cool! Does that mean that next time there is a check point at N Mills we get to use it? Or do you think the same people who brought us the nightmare of Bradley Creek this year will put the hurt on again with a small red marker line? By the way, that is a retorical question. Of course it will still be closed the first saturday of may every year.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by driftwood
    I talked to a law enforcement officer parked at the bridge yesterday and he said that the gated road is now open to all users. It is CMLC property and they are allowing public access . He said that bikes and horses probably should not be taking the high trail through the field.... I'm going to write the CMLC a letter thanking them

    In addition to thanking them, join:

    http://www.carolinamountain.org/become_a_member

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman
    In addition to thanking them, join:

    http://www.carolinamountain.org/become_a_member

    Will they let me use a chainsaw?

  11. #11
    drunken pirate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman
    In addition to thanking them, join:

    http://www.carolinamountain.org/become_a_member
    I'm already a member .
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  12. #12
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    Fisherman's / Big Creek Lodge not legal yet apparently ...

    As part of working to get our map updated - I called CMLC to get the official word on the Big Creek Lodge property. They are working on it but it is not done yet. Instead of paraphrasing, I'll quote from the email I got today. Rebekah Robinson is the person I have been speaking with.

    "Attached is the factsheet on Big Creek Lodge that I mentioned. It was written in partnership with Trout Unlimited but I think the information should appeal to all recreational users of the District. The property is still privately owned and riding mountain bikes, hiking, or otherwise crossing the property is trespassing. Big Creek Lodge is currently the number one Forest Service acquisition priority in all of North Carolina, however, the source of federal funding that would allow the Forest Service to purchase the property, the Land and Water Conservation Fund (LWCF) is under severe threat in the current Congress. The House of Representatives just released a proposal that dramatically reduces funding for Forest Service acquisitions along with many other conservation programs. The bill proposes only $12.5 million for the entire Forest Service for the next fiscal year. Anything the mountain biking community can do to support funding to the LWCF and the Big Creek Lodge project would increase the chance that the property will be added to Pisgah sooner rather than later."

    Fact sheet mentioned is attached.

  13. #13
    drunken pirate
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    Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

    There is no question that all the No Trespassing signs were removed from what is known as Fisherman's and the double red blazes on the trees that also indicate No Trespassing were also painted over. Brand new No Trespassing signs are posted all around the Big Creek Lodge on the other side of FR1206. CMLC owns the property now, perhaps they are being kind and not posting no trespassing on the key corridor? The local mtb community should try and help get this key stretch of trail opened up for legal public use. I'm sure our local advocacy group is all over it....
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  14. #14
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    Driftwood- Advocacy Coordinator is an available Board position. Are you still considering involvement?

    The only way your local advocacy group is going to be" all over this" is if some people who are passionate about the issue step up and put in the time and energy. Plain and simple.

    Thanks!
    Mike

  15. #15
    drunken pirate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Brown View Post
    Driftwood- Advocacy Coordinator is an available Board position. Are you still considering involvement?

    The only way your local advocacy group is going to be" all over this" is if some people who are passionate about the issue step up and put in the time and energy. Plain and simple.

    Thanks!
    Mike
    Yeah, Mike, I'm still considering more involvement in PAS. I must say I am extremely skeptical due to the extreme difficulties with communication I have gotten from the group but I'm still considering it and will likely be at the BOD meeting on Monday. Based on what I hear then I'll decide if it is worth pursuing*.... I shouldn't have even mentioned the local advocacy group in my last post but it does seem like this in an issue that would be on their radar... I know you are the current Advocacy Coordinator and my comment was not aimed at you in the least. I know you and know you are one of the most passionate and dedicated mountain bikers I have met. And you have actively participated in the discussion in this very thread and for that I thank you. When I think of what PAS has really accomplished in recent years Richmond Hill tops the list. When I think of PAS members really making a difference you top the list.... I could say much, much more which wouldn't be nearly as pretty so I'll leave it at that and hope that one day soon it is perfectly legal to ride my bike across Fisherman's as I do it all the time and I really hate poaching.


    * I have been asking the simple question of "What more can I do to help?" for many, many months now and have only very recently gotten any answer. Conveniently enough that answer comes with a mass exodus from the BOD.
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  16. #16
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    "Conveniently enough that answer comes with a mass exodus from the BOD."

    Thrice again - there was never a "mass exodus" from the BOD and sub-categories. The positions have always been open for anyone interested in helping out. Some folks have shared various responsibilities and some took them on - totally. Life changes happen and volunteer roles change with them.

    Yeah to new folks wanting to get involved!!!

    JF:That's the bootleg I have been looking for my whole life!

  17. #17
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    Driftwood- Sorry if I came across as digging at you, I agree my post reads that way. Just trying to get more people involved. It wasn't intentional.

    Okay, here come's the rant...

    I have been mis-labeled advocacy coordinator on the website for at least three years. It has been my position by default only. Had I served that role? Yes. But only because nobody else was...and now my job prevents me from filling in gaps- just not enough time anymore- nothing more complicated than that.

    Regarding Richmond Hill: Thanks! In the next two months, people should see the following:
    1) A kiosk at the trail head (this weekend, actually).
    2) At least two trail work days open to the public...will post here with specifics. Just got the Certificate of Insurance to the City today that will allow me to schedule trail work days...
    3) These two work days will lead to a complete 4 mile loop from the parking lot of single track with an inner loop of about 2 miles. Lots of directional options can add up to a 8-10 mile ride (or run for my broken winged self) that is not boring at all.
    4) A map will be available on-line, at LBS's, and at the kiosk. This map will include directional suggestions and...
    5) Colored lines on said map will correspond to colored blazes marking all trails, including a specific 1.5 mile route that will be "beginner friendly."

    Should all be done by mid-August- hopefully sooner. Environmental assessments are completed, the city is on board, an Eagle Scout candidate is building the kiosk- in other words, everything is lined up.

    And then the Hill will be done except for constant ongoing maintenance. It's taken 6 years of work to get it to this point and, really, hundreds of hours of my time doing both trail work and shaking hands with the City and disc golfers-I'm glad I haven't kept track.

    I point out the time commmitment so MAYBE people can understand- these things take time and energy. There is no way around that. If you want to see things happen, you have to committ to it. If you don't, things won't happen.

    Drift-ay, again, this rant is not a dig at you. I personally appreciate the value of your role as an agitator recently. It's definintely helped bring attention to the need for more people with more energy.

    Rant-like post over.

    Peace
    Mike

  18. #18
    drunken pirate
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    It is kind of hard to try and get involved with PAS when the big BOD meeting that has been planned for a month is cancelled at the last minute. But I really got to give it to PAS - they really seem to have the consistency thing down pat!

    Seeing as how my evening was suddenly free I decided to put my time and energy that I was going to use attending the meeting to better use and took my dog for a run up North Mills River trail via Fisherman's. It was a hot day and the 18 river crossings sure felt good!

    At the start I took a minute to snap some pictures of what I've noticed going on at Fisherman's.

    Here is the fence at the Big Creek Lodge with the new No Trespassing signs posted just beyond it:



    Close up of the sign:

    Photobucket

    New gate on the other side of FR1206 that looks identical to most USFS gates in the Pisgah District, what is known as Fisherman's trail starts here:



    Here is where the double red blazes that are commonly used to indicate private property and no trespassing have been painted over with grey paint:



    Here is where No Trespassing signs were posted at the river crossing at the end of the trail. North Mills River and Trace Ridge trails start just on the other side of the river:



    pisgahmap's post is interesting and really seems to indicate that Fisherman's is still No Trespassing but these various bits of evidence seem to suggest that it is now okay to use the trail. I wonder if by "Big Creek Lodge property" the CMLC is referring to the property on the South side of FR1206 where the lodge is and not the entire tract including Fisherman's? Why wouldn't they be posting the whole thing with the new signs? My chat with the LEO is also encouraging but he could have been wrong....

    I'm sure mountain bikers don't care about this sort of thing but I just thought I'd share.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by driftwood View Post
    It is kind of hard to try and get involved with PAS when the big BOD meeting that has been planned for a month is cancelled at the last minute. But I really got to give it to PAS - they really seem to have the consistency thing down pat!

    Seeing as how my evening was suddenly free I decided to put my time and energy that I was going to use attending the meeting to better use and took my dog for a run up North Mills River trail via Fisherman's. It was a hot day and the 18 river crossings sure felt good!

    At the start I took a minute to snap some pictures of what I've noticed going on at Fisherman's.

    Here is the fence at the Big Creek Lodge with the new No Trespassing signs posted just beyond it:



    Close up of the sign:

    Photobucket

    New gate on the other side of FR1206 that looks identical to most USFS gates in the Pisgah District, what is known as Fisherman's trail starts here:



    Here is where the double red blazes that are commonly used to indicate private property and no trespassing have been painted over with grey paint:



    Here is where No Trespassing signs were posted at the river crossing at the end of the trail. North Mills River and Trace Ridge trails start just on the other side of the river:



    pisgahmap's post is interesting and really seems to indicate that Fisherman's is still No Trespassing but these various bits of evidence seem to suggest that it is now okay to use the trail. I wonder if by "Big Creek Lodge property" the CMLC is referring to the property on the South side of FR1206 where the lodge is and not the entire tract including Fisherman's? Why wouldn't they be posting the whole thing with the new signs? My chat with the LEO is also encouraging but he could have been wrong....

    I'm sure mountain bikers don't care about this sort of thing but I just thought I'd share.

    Hey Driftwood,

    Good detective work for sure. I'll call CLMC tomorrow and talk some more with them and point out some of the things you have brought up and point them to the pictures showing the red blazes painted over and new USFS looking gate. Maybe they are talking about the property on the South side of the road.

  20. #20
    drunken pirate
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    Quote Originally Posted by pisgahmap View Post
    Hey Driftwood,

    Good detective work for sure. I'll call CLMC tomorrow and talk some more with them and point out some of the things you have brought up and point them to the pictures showing the red blazes painted over and new USFS looking gate. Maybe they are talking about the property on the South side of the road.
    Sounds good, but if the answer is that it is indeed private property and they really don't want forest users on that corridor maybe just don't report back, okay? And also maybe don't show them the pictures
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  21. #21
    drunken pirate
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    Grey Paint

    I heard from the surveyor responsible for the grey paint:

    The red blazes were put on the trees in error during a retracement survey for the USFS some 15 years ago. The boundary was mistakenly marked along the treeline when it should have been down the center of the river. The gray paint is a standard correction technique.
    The mystery deepens!
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by driftwood View Post
    Sounds good, but if the answer is that it is indeed private property and they really don't want forest users on that corridor maybe just don't report back, okay? And also maybe don't show them the pictures
    ?????

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by driftwood View Post
    Sounds good, but if the answer is that it is indeed private property and they really don't want forest users on that corridor maybe just don't report back, okay? And also maybe don't show them the pictures
    I'm still confused... you said "hope that one day soon it is perfectly legal to ride my bike across Fisherman's as I do it all the time and I really hate poaching. " but you also said
    " they really don't want forest users on that corridor maybe just don't report back, okay? And also maybe don't show them the pictures."

    What was your point in bringing up this in the first place? You say you hate poaching but you are doing it on a regular bases and now you ask for a don't ask don't tell policy? Where you high? or you thought it was something neat too talk about? It seems like you have taken the hypocritical approach.With views like this.......

    You also said.....
    "I have been asking the simple question of "What more can I do to help?" for many, many months now and have only very recently gotten any answer." And I hope that answer is to stop poaching! It ruins our relationship with everyone involved with legal trails

  24. #24
    drunken pirate
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    Yawn Your constant trolling really gets old, motobutane. Are you high are really just this lonely and sad?

    Sometimes ignorance is bliss

    I started this discussion because I would like to know what is going on along that stretch and think it is an important issue for all trail users. The previous owners tried multiple times to develop the property and tried to keep forest users off it. Now thank to CMLC and Trout Unlimited it appears that perhaps we can legally ride our bikes along that corridor.

    Instead of trying to discuss anything with you motobutane I offer the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Whitman
    Do I contradict myself?
    Very well then I contradict myself,
    (I am large, I contain multitudes.)
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by driftwood View Post
    Yawn Your constant trolling really gets old, motobutane. Are you high are really just this lonely and sad?

    Sometimes ignorance is bliss

    I started this discussion because I would like to know what is going on along that stretch and think it is an important issue for all trail users. The previous owners tried multiple times to develop the property and tried to keep forest users off it. Now thank to CMLC and Trout Unlimited it appears that perhaps we can legally ride our bikes along that corridor.

    Instead of trying to discuss anything with you motobutane I offer the following:
    In your case if ignorance is bliss then you must be a very happy person

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