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  1. #1
    007
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    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  2. #2
    Afric Pepperbird
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    I'd love to bash Texas here with you, but:

    A) The wingnuts will soon chime in

    B) It'll soon be relegated to the recycle bin.


    It's a lost cause, my friend.

  3. #3
    usually cranky
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    im not a fan of capital punishment but that sounded like a bad dude regardless of his mental fortitude. its not like being mentally handicapped is the sole factor why he had cocain and shot a cop.

  4. #4
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    IBTB.
    For additional discussion, the nuances of:
    1.) Life, w/out the possibility of parole
    2.) Life, in a mental institution
    3.) Death penalty
    4.) Concurrent versus consecutive life-without-parole sentences.
    ...and the band plays:

  5. #5
    007
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    No Texas bashing intended . . . I work in mental health and this is a particularly heated topic in my field at the moment. Bigger than just this case . . . .

    And I agree with notion that he was not a model citizen and I acknowledge the differences vs. the alternative options . . . .
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  6. #6
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    You have to figure that there are differences in mental retardation.

    Mentally retarded subject A rolls his crap into little blls and plays marbles with them. Well he probably needs whatever help we can get him.

    Mentally retarded subject B kills people. Thats too bad. He gets to die. Maybe he should have been rolling his crap into little balls.
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  7. #7
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    The justice system is f'ed up from top to bottom. Death penalty should be in all 50 states and used MUCH more often.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycle151 View Post
    Friggin' coward. Give me a red chiclet instead of debating like a man. You don't deserve your green blocks.

  8. #8
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    Regardless of his mental deficiencies, whatever they may have been, he made a conscious decision to take another human life. He obviously had the ability to operate at a somewhat decent mental level. IQ tests are silly to me. They're not measuring his ability to solve social issues that he obviously had no problems with. He might not be able to read or write very well, but he wasn't retarded. He was operating a business and had friends, and was at least somewhat successful in that. He may not have had book smarts, but he was street smart. We see the book smart with no common sense all the time. Why not lots of street smarts, but not the ability to count your toes?

  9. #9
    tl1
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt farmer View Post
    I'd love to bash Texas here with you, but:

    A) The wingnuts will soon chime in

    B) It'll soon be relegated to the recycle bin.


    It's a lost cause, my friend.
    Most of the wing-nuts are mentally challenged too so they'd never get the finer points of the discussion. Lost cause for sure.

  10. #10
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    doesn't surprise me out of Texas.

    not that I think an IQ test is exactly an appropriate test in this case. sure, the guy isn't very bright. but that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't have a concept of what's right and what's wrong, and really isn't that the gist behind the sort of defense his lawyers used? they're saying that because his IQ is 61, he doesn't know the difference between right and wrong and therefore should not face the death penalty? I don't think that logic follows any better than using a fictional novel to reject that line of thinking.

  11. #11
    tl1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    You have to figure that there are differences in mental retardation.

    Mentally retarded subject A rolls his crap into little blls and plays marbles with them. Well he probably needs whatever help we can get him.

    Mentally retarded subject B kills people. Thats too bad. He gets to die. Maybe he should have been rolling his crap into little balls.
    Which one are you?

  12. #12
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    Hubby worked in a prison for 8 years. You'd never believe the stuff I know and what these people are capable of. Even the guy that rolls his crap into little balls can turn deadly in an instant if you ruin his marble game. A lot of guys use their crap for all kinds of things including snack time. Hosing down these guys and their cells is a huge PITA when they smear it all over. You can't let them sit in it because it's a health hazard.

    A huge problem with the mental illness community is that the government shut down facilities and aid. Most of them don't have access to meds, refuse to take them or can't afford them. Only way they can get these meds is in prison. It's sad that our prisons/jails are basically housing the mentally ill. Once on their meds in prison, these guys are perfectly stable and "normal". They get out, don't get their meds and end up back in due to crimes and start the revolving door system. There are guys that keep committing petty crimes because it keeps them from being homeless and to get their medications.

    The truly mentally insane guys just need to be shot and buried in a mass grave. Why they can walk around in a prison for years on death row makes a mockery of capital punishment and the justice system. Any guy that can kill his girlfriend's baby, boil it and feed it to the dog shouldn't be around years later waiting for his turn.

    On the other hand, my neighbor's daughter has the mentality of an infant even though she's 20. When she was in the hospital, she'd rip out IV's, attack the nurses, and had to be tied to the bed because she'd rock back and forth trying to get out of bed. The hospital had a terrible time with her. Then what do you do if she truly injured the nurses? She may not know right/wrong, but she's still capable of really hurting someone.

  13. #13
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    Bethany, what you describe are a lot of terrible symptoms of an f'd up mental health care system in this country.

    Better care for mentally ill people would prevent a lot of crime.

    Nothing I have read about this suggests that this guy is mentally ill. He is just not all there. Different issues. He needs to be dealt with on different terms than schizophrenic people.

  14. #14
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    I dealt with a lot of mentally ill people during my time as a police officer. Honestly, not a lot you can do for them outside of locking them up. Reason I say that is because many of the ones I dealt with had good families, doctor care, got meds they needed, but because of their illness, once they started feeling better they stopped taking the meds because in their head, they were cured. Of course they went back downhill and the fight was on trying to get them back on meds. It is just an up and down battle with no end to it. Eventually family gives up, or parents get too old to deal with it and siblings wash their hands of the whole problem and now the ill person is on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycle151 View Post
    Friggin' coward. Give me a red chiclet instead of debating like a man. You don't deserve your green blocks.

  15. #15
    U sayin' Bolt ?
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    I think a mentally ill person should receive as much medical assistance as possible. After that though I believe they should be removed from society if they show violent unlawful tendencies.

    As per whether or not exceedingly violent criminals should be killed or incarcerated, I say go with what's least expensive to the taxpayers and the society we are trying to protect.

    Which is more expensive is dependent on situation and is open for debate:
    Does the death penalty cost less than life in prison without parole? - Death Penalty - ProCon.org

    However I am only judge and jury if they enter my sphere...

  16. #16
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    I never understood why people think life in prison with no chance for parole is somehow better than the death penalty. It seems much worse to me.

  17. #17
    Carbon & Ti rule
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    George W ??????

  18. #18
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    Shoot! I read the title and thought that Texans had finally wised-up and rid themselves of Rick Perry.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Most of the wing-nuts are mentally challenged too so they'd never get the finer points of the discussion. Lost cause for sure.
    Sometimes, I'm just like you. I make condescending remarks about others being less intelligent than I am, suggesting they are therefore incapable of understanding the finer points of any discussion I take part in. Does it make you feel as superior as it make me feel when I do it?

    Oh yeah, I'd execute the r-tard. Who's gonna miss him? Or maybe stuff a load of explosives up his bungee and make him a human IED that could be sent to Afghanistan.

  20. #20
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    The guy was selling drugs, blamed an informant for getting caught, got an accomplice, accosted the informant outside of some sort of a business and then shot and killed the informant. If he was sitting in a corner drooling and playing with his poo marbles it would be one thing. This guy had the cognitive skills to sell drugs and plan retribution against the informant. Good riddance!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dm1333 View Post
    The guy was selling drugs, blamed an informant for getting caught, got an accomplice, accosted the informant outside of some sort of a business and then shot and killed the informant. If he was sitting in a corner drooling and playing with his poo marbles it would be one thing. This guy had the cognitive skills to sell drugs and plan retribution against the informant. Good riddance!
    ^^THIS^^
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  22. #22
    tl1
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son View Post
    Sometimes, I'm just like you. I make condescending remarks about others being less intelligent than I am, suggesting they are therefore incapable of understanding the finer points of any discussion I take part in. Does it make you feel as superior as it make me feel when I do it?

    Oh yeah, I'd execute the r-tard. Who's gonna miss him? Or maybe stuff a load of explosives up his bungee and make him a human IED that could be sent to Afghanistan.
    No it doesn't make me feel superior given that I am of average intelligence and see so many of similar abilities shutting down any remnants of critical thinking they once had and presenting themselves to the world as blood thirsty idiots by their own choice: "maybe stuff a load of explosives up his bungee and make him a human IED".

    Really, one would have to be an idiot to be threatened by and choose to make a scapegoat of a retarded person and want to kill them, even if the mentally retarded person was a killer themselves. Locking them away from society to protect us from them will be sufficient for me, I don't need blood too, I'm no Nazi or other form of authoritarian eugenicist like a lot of Americans seem to be these days. It doesn't surprise me that there are so many blood thirsty low-lives around that advocate killing mentally challenged people though. Being a common garden variety human turd is really quite common and it's a lot easier than trying to retain your basic humanity in this insane world.

  23. #23
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    N.m.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by knutso View Post
    As per whether or not exceedingly violent criminals should be killed or incarcerated, I say go with what's least expensive to the taxpayers and the society we are trying to protect.
    I don't think expense should be part of the equation. I think that if a person is deemed so violent that they are sent to prison for life with no chance of parole, then they should be put to death to protect the public. Reason being, as long as they are alive, there's a chance they could get out, whether by escape or clerical over-site. Both have happened. Now you have that exceedingly violent person back out in society. They only argument I see against this would be the possibility of verdict reversal. But at least in cases where it's 110% that the person is guilty, then death should be the sentence. It protects society, correctional staff, and other inmates, not that I really give a sh!t about them.

  25. #25
    tl1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    I don't think expense should be part of the equation. I think that if a person is deemed so violent that they are sent to prison for life with no chance of parole, then they should be put to death to protect the public. Reason being, as long as they are alive, there's a chance they could get out, whether by escape or clerical over-site. Both have happened. Now you have that exceedingly violent person back out in society. They only argument I see against this would be the possibility of verdict reversal. But at least in cases where it's 110% that the person is guilty, then death should be the sentence. It protects society, correctional staff, and other inmates, not that I really give a sh!t about them.
    Nice. We should guard against possible clerical errors and escapes by killing people. That's kind of like scrapping your new car because it may be involved in a terrible collision some day except we're dealing with human beings not machines. If they can't be safely locked up and secured 24/7 with all the prison technology of today maybe we should get some different people involved in designing and running prisons.

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