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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by stepitup_onenotch View Post
    At least you have heard of Chomsky. Arguably one of the worlds greatest thinkers but mostly marginalised by mainstream media in the US.
    You mean one of world's most fashionable thinkers. There is a difference, you know. Many things that are fashionable and popular are also incorrect. He's certainly not been marginalized by the American Left and Academia....but I repeat myself.

    Not to say that I disagree with everything the man says, it's just that he draws the wrong conclusions from his perceptions of the world. It's his ingrained world-view. Sort of why the left always proposes some kind of statist solution to every problem...it's sort of in their blood while a free-market, Libertarian guy like me always proposes more individual freedom and responsibility.

    In regard to Wal Mart, I am ambivalent. The people who work there are neither martyrs nor malingerers. Certainly the job they do is not particularly difficult except that it looks like a grind and I wouldn't want to do it. I can't see how it requires any skill beyond a high school diploma and some muscles every now and then and some people are suited to nothing else either from a lack of ambition or abilities or just bad luck. I suspect it's mostly lack of ambition. Wal Mart has no trouble finding employees while the local energy companies are so desperate for welders and pipe fitter, guys who make thirty dollars an hour, that they will train you for the job themselves. There are (or were before we decided to become a welfare/foodstamp/disability society) plenty of opportunities for improvement except that this kind of thing requires effort and sacrifice..

    I know that the ambition of many of Wal Marts employees is to come to the ER to get a sick note for some made-up complaint. They are unpaid sick days mostly so I'm not exactly buying that everybody who works there is desperate for money. It's also a second income in a two-income household for many of there employees so not everybody working there is starving to death.

    I also don't believe Mom and Pop paid any better than Wal Mart. Don't recall that they gave benefits, either. My local bike store is a mom and pop and he probably pays about the same as Wal Mart.

    I also don't believe Wal Mart destroys the local economy. My home town (Ruston, Louisiana) was a sleepy place until they put in a Super Wal Mart. It may have closed down some of the crappy, old-timey stores downtown but Wal Mart has anchored an explosion of businesses everywhere else in town. Hell, we didn't even have a movie theater and now we have two multiplexes.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    1. We do not live in a democracy; we live in a representative republic.
    One could hope. Too bad the constitution is ignored.

    Prepare for more budgeting by ballot. Will help a lot.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by stencil View Post
    I have, actually. I've toured many of these factories. Have you?

    I've yet to see a dead child in a factory in China. In fact, I read as much about abuse in the US as I do in China.
    I have travelled across 5 continents and haved lived many years on 3 different continents. It is probably the main reason why I have such a vehement attitude to companies like Wal Mart.

    Asia can be so sad, bordering the perfectly manicured grounds of a Sheraton resort in Cebu (Philippines) you find absolute abject poverty. A river running through the denim factory district of Shenzhen that is thick and scummy and dead with people living right up against it and the nearby rail road tracks. Just a couple of examples, you have to see these things to believe it.

    If mainstream media were more forthright then perhaps the images that are burned in my memory would be burned in the memories of everyone coast to coast and we would begin to see some change. I doubt if any corporation (or govt) could withstand the pressure from an outraged public, and if these images were broadcast as often as the words fiscal cliff for example then you might have people thinking about it.

    BTW - your quote is just plain naive.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    That brings to mind two time Medal of Honor winner USMC General Smedley Butler's quote about the fruit companies. He was the most decorated Marine of his time and spent his post retirement time lecturing and trying to "trying to educate the soldiers out of the sucker class." I hope the WM supporters enjoy their truly delicious bananas.
    This is still going on today folks. If the US really wants to put an end to terrorism they should stop participating in it.

    For example Obama has flown more than 300 drone missions in Afghan and Pakistan. Killing thousands of people and spawning generations looking for revenge.

    I saw a Harvard prof interviewed on Bloomberg News last night spouting on about how cutbacks are needed from Entitlements to save us from the fiscal cliff and how we can't cutback on Defense because emerging economies are beginning to militarise. Complete rubbish. What this really means is that we have to keep these emerging economies in line, if they don't toe the line and support US corporates then we send in the troops as quoted above.

  5. #155
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    [QUOTE=Ailuropoda;9989237]You mean one of world's most fashionable thinkers. There is a difference, you know. Many things that are fashionable and popular are also incorrect. He's certainly not been marginalized by the American Left and Academia....but I repeat myself.

    Not to say that I disagree with everything the man says, it's just that he draws the wrong conclusions from his perceptions of the world. It's his ingrained world-view. Sort of why the left always proposes some kind of statist solution to every problem...it's sort of in their blood while a free-market, Libertarian guy like me always proposes more individual freedom and responsibility.
    [end quote]

    Chomsky's book Manufacturing Consent should be required reading for all high school students. And he has been marginalized by mainstream media. But his work has been so consistent and so important that many others are begining to fill in the vacuum behind Chomsky. The man is now 84 and has been speaking out since Kennedy invaded Vietnam in 1962.

    Chomsky is probably the most honest man in the entire country.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    F-22 Raptors are awesome.

    Also, how many babies, on average, does Wal-Mart use in each quart of baby oil it sells?
    Lets see, there are 187 F22 raptors in service, the total cost of the raptor program was $67 billion in tax payer dollars. Awesome.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    It's not the case actually but I don't want to derail this thread further than it already is. You can go through my posts and judge for yourself or IM marpilli for examples of the alleged trolling.
    No need to IM me (you can if you want).

    Just check here on any given day: Recent posts by tl1

    P.S. If you think it's what you're saying that bothers people, you're a fool. It's how you're delivering your message (trolling). Start a new thread for your rants and you may even get some respect for your opinions.
    Contact information: http://about.me/marpilli

  8. #158
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    The only part I'm confused about is how Walmart employees are paid poorly....it's not like they get paid less then what the government minimum is. Sooooo who's really to blame?
    WHY ARE YOU YELLING??!1

  9. #159
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    As someone working in marketing, I don't lift a finger for less than $125 an hour - I really hope you Walmart salespeople are as well paid.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    As someone working in marketing, I don't lift a finger for less than $125 an hour - I really hope you Walmart salespeople are as well paid.



    Uhmmmm, now you're just posting like a punk.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    As someone working in marketing, I don't lift a finger for less than $125 an hour - I really hope you Walmart salespeople are as well paid.
    SS Hack.........really......please.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Uhmmmm, now you're just posting like a punk.
    I apologize if it seems that way.

    But even for posters that believe in Walmart's business model and shop there (everyone is entitled to their opinion), the level of support they're offering Walmart should put them on the payroll. I guess I've never found a for profit company that deserves so much free marketing. I could have said the same thing about the Home Brewed Component supporters.

  13. #163
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    This whole thing is silly. From my perspective, the whole thing boils down to a couple of things:

    1. Does the economy exist to serve the people or do the people exist to serve the economy? Think about that and figure out what you really believe the answer should be.

    2. The mission of a corporation is to deliver a return of profit to the owners/shareholders - period. Corporations do not owe the workers anything unless it serves the ability of the corporation to return a profit. It has no ethical responsibility to the workers or the customers unless it serves the ability of the corporation to return a profit.

    When you put these two things together, you get exactly what we have here: a psychotic, narcissistic entity that ONLY does good when it benefits the organism. Those of you falling prey to the fundamental attribution error should remember or learn about the Milgram Experiment or the Stanford Prison Experiment.

    Shame on you for sitting on your high horse and looking down your nose at the "lazy, worthless poor people."

    To those who hail WalMart as a shining example of capitalism and join in on the rhetoric of "socialism doesn't work;" may I remind you that socialism worked for more than 10,000 years in North America until the individualist and capitalist named Columbus arrived and committed genocide on a scale not surpassed to this day.

    If you think you deserve everything you have and the poor dregs of society deserve their situation, please realize, you got lucky. Sure you might work hard, but it's because of your biology and environment that has allowed you to be where you are. Their environment and their biology has dictated where they are.

    I've done jobs from soldier in the US military, to digging ditches and ultimately sales. I made 20 times more money last year than I did digging ditches and never got my hands dirty. The easiest jobs in the world are the ones where you don't get your hands dirty.

    The fact is, intelligence resides on a bell curve. For everyone here with an IQ over 100, there is someone out there with an IQ under 100. For everyone with an emotional intelligence above average, there is someone with one below.

    This notion that everyone just needs to pick themselves up by the bootstraps and make something of themselves is ridiculous. Do you expect someone with an IQ of 80 to go to college? Do you expect someone who was beaten daily by their father to be well adjusted enough to accept authority?

    You are not representative of the rest of the world. Randomly line up 99 people from the world's population behind you and you. Guess what, you are the only one who owns a computer. 40 of them accounts for 5 percent of all wealth; while you and the 19 people right behind you account for 75 percent of all wealth and you will consume 75 percent of available resources each year. 33 of them are literally starving to death and will die from starvation or preventable disease. 40 of them have to travel at least 1km to access to clean water.

    So, next time you complain that your brakes on your $2,000 bicycle squeal, think about the little boy who just died because his mother couldn't produce enough milk for him. This is where WE, as a people, are right now. THIS, is why people are so irate about five people being worth 40 BILLION DOLLARS. THIS is why people are upset about the 700 BILLION DOLLARS spent every year for defense.

    And it is all justified because it keeps the economy strong. You know why we don't cut defense spending? Because, from an economic standpoint, for every dollar spent on defense, it returns $1.20 back into the economy. "Investing" in ANYTHING else yields a negative return.

    So, please, recognize:

    1. We are all humans
    2. The economy and corporations are supposed to exist to serve us, but that is no longer the case.
    3. If you disagree with someone, attack their argument and not them personally. Personal attacks toward each other or other human beings is callous and ignorant.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  14. #164
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    You are not representative of the rest of the world. Randomly line up 99 people from the world's population behind you and you. Guess what, you are the only one who owns a computer. 40 of them accounts for 5 percent of all wealth; while you and the 19 people right behind you account for 75 percent of all wealth and you will consume 75 percent of available resources each year. 33 of them are literally starving to death and will die from starvation or preventable disease. 40 of them have to travel at least 1km to access to clean water.

    Source, please?

  15. #165
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    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  16. #166
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    To those who hail WalMart as a shining example of capitalism and join in on the rhetoric of "socialism doesn't work;" may I remind you that socialism worked for more than 10,000 years in North America until the individualist and capitalist named Columbus arrived and committed genocide on a scale not surpassed to this day.

    The indiginus natives of North America, pre-Columbus, were not Socialist, but governed by tribal hierarchy. Many of which were extremely violent, as they battled other tribes for food and existence, and yes many died of starvation. Is this the course you'd have our society go in the name of the greater good?
    And yes, I am on my way to an ass kickin contest

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrippledOld Guy View Post
    To those who hail WalMart as a shining example of capitalism and join in on the rhetoric of "socialism doesn't work;" may I remind you that socialism worked for more than 10,000 years in North America until the individualist and capitalist named Columbus arrived and committed genocide on a scale not surpassed to this day.

    The indiginus natives of North America, pre-Columbus, were not Socialist, but governed by tribal hierarchy. Many of which were extremely violent, as they battled other tribes for food and existence, and yes many died of starvation. Is this the course you'd have our society go in the name of the greater good?
    Source?
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Source?
    Common sense.

    Socialism failed everywhere. It is a fact. Citing example of a small primitive tribe as an example for a nation of hundreds of millions does not make sense. None of it.

  19. #169
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    I've never thought of Wally World as evil, just really good at what they do and I think in many ways they are a shining example of capitalism, and if that's not a sad reflection of America I don't know what is. We don't have a whole lot of choices where I am and so I do not feel any special kind of guilt when I am there, just the ordinary repugnance. I do like to play a little game when I visit though.

    You know those ASSET PROTECTORS who lurk at the entrance and make you feel like a criminal undergoing investigation when they check your cart? Usually there is a trash can at the end of the checkout line and in full view of the wallyworld cop. I like to stop there and slowly check my receipt and then chuck it in the can. When I am accosted and they demand to check my papers I explain that they needn't bother because I already did I was not over charged. So far there have been some red faces but no one has dug through the bin for the receipt yet, but I'm hoping one day they do. Someday you can blame me when there is a big sign that says "please keep your papers! Receipt demanded at gate!"


    wmac- that was one heck of a post- spot on!

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I've never thought of Wally World as evil, just really good at what they do and I think in many ways they are a shining example of capitalism, and if that's not a sad reflection of America I don't know what is. We don't have a whole lot of choices where I am and so I do not feel any special kind of guilt when I am there, just the ordinary repugnance. I do like to play a little game when I visit though.

    You know those ASSET PROTECTORS who lurk at the entrance and make you feel like a criminal undergoing investigation when they check your cart? Usually there is a trash can at the end of the checkout line and in full view of the wallyworld cop. I like to stop there and slowly check my receipt and then chuck it in the can. When I am accosted and they demand to check my papers I explain that they needn't bother because I already did I was not over charged. So far there have been some red faces but no one has dug through the bin for the receipt yet, but I'm hoping one day they do. Someday you can blame me when there is a big sign that says "please keep your papers! Receipt demanded at gate!"


    wmac- that was one heck of a post- spot on!
    I live in a good neighborhood. I've never seen such Walmart nazis.
    WHY ARE YOU YELLING??!1

  21. #171
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    Curmy: Oh, I didn't know common sense was a valid source. "The world is flat" was common sense at one time too.

    First, socialism and capitalism are political and economic constructs where one, capitalism, presumes competition and monopoly and the other, socialism, as defined by Marx, is an overthrow of capitalism and an elimination of all monopolies. So, yes, in that sense, socialism, as defined by Marx, has been a failure because we still have capitalism and we still have monopolies.

    Socialism, in broader terms, can be viewed as a dearth of a state or monopolies. Which is what we had before the invasion of Columbus.

    CrippledOld Guy: To say, "killing 10 million people in a genocidal rampage was worth it because what we have today is better" is an interesting statement to make.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by stepitup_onenotch View Post
    This is still going on today folks. If the US really wants to put an end to terrorism they should stop participating in it.

    For example Obama has flown more than 300 drone missions in Afghan and Pakistan. Killing thousands of people and spawning generations looking for revenge.

    I saw a Harvard prof interviewed on Bloomberg News last night spouting on about how cutbacks are needed from Entitlements to save us from the fiscal cliff and how we can't cutback on Defense because emerging economies are beginning to militarise. Complete rubbish. What this really means is that we have to keep these emerging economies in line, if they don't toe the line and support US corporates then we send in the troops as quoted above.
    The US govt clearly doesn't want to end terrorism. It's a ready excuse for virtually anything. We ARE the terrorists of the world. Everyone living outside of our borders understands this. I'm not sure why so many of our citizens don't.

    As for budget cuts, I won't even entertain the notion that the right cares about a deficit. It's a convenient excuse for cutting programs they don't like. The worse off the people are, the easier they are to control.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Curmy: Oh, I didn't know common sense was a valid source. "The world is flat" was common sense at one time too.

    First, socialism and capitalism are political and economic constructs where one, capitalism, presumes competition and monopoly and the other, socialism, as defined by Marx, is an overthrow of capitalism and an elimination of all monopolies. So, yes, in that sense, socialism, as defined by Marx, has been a failure because we still have capitalism and we still have monopolies.

    Socialism, in broader terms, can be viewed as a dearth of a state or monopolies. Which is what we had before the invasion of Columbus.

    CrippledOld Guy: To say, "killing 10 million people in a genocidal rampage was worth it because what we have today is better" is an interesting statement to make.
    That's what I said? Really? WOW!
    And yes, I am on my way to an ass kickin contest

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    "Investing" in ANYTHING else yields a negative return.
    Excellent post above. I must take note with this quote, though. It is very hard to get firm numbers, a various studies have demonstrated that funding education (various forms, not always traditional schools) generally has a positive return, both for the individual and their local economy.

    One source: http://www.mcgraw-hillresearchfounda...d-training.pdf

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by fotooutdoors View Post
    Excellent post above. I must take note with this quote, though. It is very hard to get firm numbers, a various studies have demonstrated that funding education (various forms, not always traditional schools) generally has a positive return, both for the individual and their local economy.

    One source: http://www.mcgraw-hillresearchfounda...d-training.pdf
    1. I'm sceptical because that study was funded by a corporation that sells books - very overpriced books.
    2. I'll find the study I'm referencing and post it.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

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