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Thread: Seriously?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post

    On another topic, related to big oil, since we seem to like a good conspiracy and all, why are we being sold on energy independence, particularly the whole fracking bit, when the vast bulk of the energy produced, is being sold overseas?

    Isn't that "ours", as in, for us? I know, it can't be stored well, it leaks out of containment systems over time.

    My suggestion? Slow down extraction, to a rate that is slightly greater than consumption. Nice, sustained profits over a longer time frame, and we can really enjoy the "hundred plus years" of energy. As it is, sounds like we're getting snowed by a patriotic spin game, and the oil companies are making even yet still more $$$.
    I believe it's mostly a matter of how the wholesale oil market works. It all gets fed into the giant established commodity trading market, and goes wherever. I guess it's better that we sell more than we buy, so we COULD be independent if the supplies from overseas get disrupted due to a war or something.

    The fracking thing is a big speed bump to alternative energy development. It will take something like the pain of ridiculously high-priced gas to get us off our ass and do some R&D.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    Yes we all can tell your intelligence oozes from every word i cannot wait for your next post i am sure i will all be in awe
    exp18, I'm sorry that I singled you out and I didn't mean to offend you. I will try to be less perspicacious.
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianb View Post
    One point that needs to be brought up/clarified:
    when examining past temperature and CO2 fluctuations, it is always the temperature that increases first, then increased CO2 follows. Historically, CO2 is not the driver, increases in CO2 are the result of warming.
    I personally believe that in my life science will show that the effect of CO2 is minimal to compared to the the effect of the nearest star, which we don't completely understand at the moment.

    ok, carry on. If I lived by the snow I'd have a fat bike...
    Well, I'm pretty sure that the climatologists have thought about that and 97% of them still believe that most if not all the recent warming over the last forty years is due to higher CO2 levels. That extra CO2 is from man. Isotope analysis proves this because fossil fuel based CO2 has a different isotope ratio than natural biospheric CO2.

    But that is correct. In the past orbital variations caused slight gradual increases in temperatures due to increased solar. The increase in temps resulted in CO2 being outgassed from the oceans. This increase in CO2 levels then resulted in even more warming. Were it not for this accentuation of temperatures by the outgassed CO2, the historic temperature swings would not be nearly as large.

    That being said, there has never been a period in the past when 9 billion tons per year of CO2 was being released into the air, like there is today. Thus comparisons to the past come up short. The release of CO2 today into the air has an immediate effect on temps due to it's greenhouse effect.



  4. #104
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    No problem Crashtest and others you are right I should of did a better job and reading through it before I posted it. But I can take the heat with a smile.
    Now to the important things I am going for a bike ride.

  5. #105
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    Meanwhile in Australia.... one month nearly gone in our Winter.

    Perfect riding weather anyone ?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Seriously?-winter.jpg  

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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Dayum. The WalMoose will prove out to be good for Fat biking in general. That is if their riders survive.
    I got a WalMoose secret.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    My suggestion? Slow down extraction, to a rate that is slightly greater than consumption. Nice, sustained profits over a longer time frame, and we can really enjoy the "hundred plus years" of energy. As it is, sounds like we're getting snowed by a patriotic spin game, and the oil companies are making even yet still more $$$.
    Being as this thread is still here,
    Yea, you nailed it, on the getting screwed aspect.

    FWIW,
    How much oil does the United States consume per year?

    The United States consumed a total of 6.87 billion barrels (18.83 million barrels per day) in 2011 and 7.0 billion barrels (19.18 million barrels per day) of refined petroleum products and biofuels in 2010. For both years, this was about 22% of total world petroleum consumption.
    How much oil does the United States consume per year? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
    There are 144 refineries, of which 134 are operating, and their combined daily output is 17,322,178 barrels.
    U.S. Number and Capacity of Petroleum Refineries

    How much of the oil produced in the United States is consumed in the United States?

    EIA cannot determine exactly the amount of crude oil produced in the United States (U.S.) that is consumed, as refined products, in the U.S.

    However, the majority of the crude oil produced in the U.S. is refined in U.S. refineries. The U.S. also produces other liquids that are used in the refining process that are added or blended with the refined products. In December 2012, the U.S. produced about 7.03 million barrels of crude oil per day and imported about 7.58 million barrels per day.

    EIA is not able to track how much domestically produced crude oil and other liquids are exported in the form of refined products. The small quantity of crude oil produced in the U.S. that is exported, nearly all to Canada, may actually be returned to the U.S. as refined products.

    The U.S. became a (slight) net exporter (exported more than we imported) of refined petroleum products in 2008. Refined petroleum products produced in the U.S. from both domestic and imported crude oil are exported to other countries. The volume of net exports of refined products in December 2012 was equivalent to about 8.5% of the total volume of U.S. petroleum consumption in December 2012.
    How much of the oil produced in the United States is consumed in the United States? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
    So I guess it really comes down to which EIA report you want to look at while being screwed

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    I believe it's mostly a matter of how the wholesale oil market works. It all gets fed into the giant established commodity trading market, and goes wherever. I guess it's better that we sell more than we buy, so we COULD be independent if the supplies from overseas get disrupted due to a war or something.

    The fracking thing is a big speed bump to alternative energy development. It will take something like the pain of ridiculously high-priced gas to get us off our ass and do some R&D.
    The only real problem is that we use more than we produce.
    If the import tap were to stop, we'd be screwed.

  9. #109
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    Global Scam

    I think global warming is a Global Scam. Just to scare people.. Why? 'cause few make money with fear. Just like scaring people that their going to die of high cholesterol and make them eat pills they really don't need. The pills are what really is going to kill you if you really don't need them.

    Some selfish b*stards have made a fine system to make money without really earning it. (by earning I mean they haven't done anything constructive that people or nature would benefit)

    This in the otherhand could be coming: The next big freeze could last 250 years: Experts say Sun's activity wanes every 200 years - and the next 'cooling period' is due by 2040 | Mail Online

    Im not saying climate change is a fraud. It is a normal cycle of life on earth.

    But looks like your going to need your fatty anyway..

  10. #110
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    Meanwhile, here in the north of Scotland we are all releasing as much CO2 and methane as we can in the hope of some global warming.

    Then we might get to see what this "summer" season is that all the southerners seem to enjoy.

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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Meanwhile, here in the north of Scotland we are all releasing as much CO2 and methane as we can in the hope of some global warming.

    Then we might get to see what this "summer" season is that all the southerners seem to enjoy.

    Funny

    Was speaking to my Brother in Norn Iron last night and he said they were having shocking weather for nearly June... so just the way I remember it.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Meanwhile, here in the north of Scotland we are all releasing as much CO2 and methane as we can in the hope of some global warming.

    Then we might get to see what this "summer" season is that all the southerners seem to enjoy.

    global warming might cause english refuges to swarm up to your mountains. it's something to consider.

  13. #113
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    Yeah, just got some friends from Qld over. They thought they'd come for the summer. Poor sods are now wearing all my extreme weather gear and still shivering even though it's a balmy 5C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Volsung View Post
    global warming might cause english refuges to swarm up to your mountains. it's something to consider.
    You're forgetting our specially trained attack midges. They'd quickly swarm back...
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  14. #114
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    This thread should have ended right here. Basically sums it up:

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Shut up, everyone. There is plenty of information out there should you be interested. You're not going to convince angry, science denying codgers of anything over an internet forum. If thousands of scientists, studies, and papers aren't going to convince them, you're not going to either.

    Just take it to the off topic section, will ya.
    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    Both sides have had their say so you can bin this now mods

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    This thread should have ended right here. Basically sums it up:
    I dunno, both sides seem to be having a polite discussion. We may not change minds, but if it can be done without resorting to insults and personal attacks? I see no reason why it can't continue.

    That being said? Seems to me, the most aggressive opinion sharing being done here, is by the folks who want the thread to go away. Curious......

    Onto other interesting topics, it's recently come to my attention that bedding down with the denier camp, is a whole, separate group of science resisters.

    I can't make this up people.

    Meteor doubters. Yes, they believe that meteors are a manufactured concept, designed to make us spend dollars on research, planning, tracking, awareness, etc.
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  16. #116
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    The stuff my family and friends are posting on facebook says it all.
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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I dunno, both sides seem to be having a polite discussion. We may not change minds, but if it can be done without resorting to insults and personal attacks? I see no reason why it can't continue.

    That being said? Seems to me, the most aggressive opinion sharing being done here, is by the folks who want the thread to go away. Curious......

    Onto other interesting topics, it's recently come to my attention that bedding down with the denier camp, is a whole, separate group of science resisters.

    I can't make this up people.

    Meteor doubters. Yes, they believe that meteors are a manufactured concept, designed to make us spend dollars on research, planning, tracking, awareness, etc.
    Curious that people don't come to the Fat Bikes forum to read the same global warming arguments over and over again? It's great that everyone is being so civil and all but this thread really should be in the off-topic forum since it no longer pertains to Fat Bikes or biking at all really.
    If you gorge yourself into morbid obesity, you can skip everyone else in line at Disney World.

  18. #118
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    Halleluiah, They're not wrong, not right, right now

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by KK89 View Post
    I think global warming is a Global Scam. Just to scare people.. Why? 'cause few make money with fear. Just like scaring people that their going to die of high cholesterol and make them eat pills they really don't need. The pills are what really is going to kill you if you really don't need them.

    Some selfish b*stards have made a fine system to make money without really earning it. (by earning I mean they haven't done anything constructive that people or nature would benefit)

    This in the otherhand could be coming: The next big freeze could last 250 years: Experts say Sun's activity wanes every 200 years - and the next 'cooling period' is due by 2040 | Mail Online

    Im not saying climate change is a fraud. It is a normal cycle of life on earth.

    But looks like your going to need your fatty anyway..
    So I'm curious which of the following two facts that you dispute? 1) Mankind has caused the CO2 levels to increase by 40%. or 2) CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

    Because if one accepts those two facts as true, logic says the atmosphere should warm. There's no need to look any further at conspiracies or hoax's that involve virtually the entire world's science community.

  20. #120
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    I really don't think that humans can possibly cause any major damage to nature. Nature is stronger. Climate can warm or get colder.. it never stays the same. But I just don't think people are causing it. It happens 'cause nature go by it's own cycle. We simply can not do anything else but adapt. (Fatbikes)

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by KK89 View Post
    I really don't think that humans can possibly cause any major damage to nature. Nature is stronger. Climate can warm or get colder.. it never stays the same. But I just don't think people are causing it. It happens 'cause nature go by it's own cycle. We simply can not do anything else but adapt. (Fatbikes)

    Wow! And all those species of animals that we humans caused to go extinct? Must of been nature that did it.
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by KK89 View Post
    I really don't think that humans can possibly cause any major damage to nature. Nature is stronger. Climate can warm or get colder.. it never stays the same. But I just don't think people are causing it. It happens 'cause nature go by it's own cycle. We simply can not do anything else but adapt. (Fatbikes)
    Not trying to make your brain explode, but humans are part of nature. We're sort of like a virus that's infected the earth.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    That being said? Seems to me, the most aggressive opinion sharing being done here, is by the folks who want the thread to go away. Curious......
    sorry to derail the derailment of this thread/forum

    I'll try to behave
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  24. #124
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    Advocates that global warming is mostly or solely man-made (I don't advocate any particular source for global warming if it exists, which it apparently does): Why does NASA keep the original source document data confidential? The only known reason is to spin, steer, and pre-determine the cause.
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  25. #125
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    Which document?

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