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  1. #101
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    Meanwhile in Australia.... one month nearly gone in our Winter.

    Perfect riding weather anyone ?
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Dayum. The WalMoose will prove out to be good for Fat biking in general. That is if their riders survive.
    I got a WalMoose secret.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    My suggestion? Slow down extraction, to a rate that is slightly greater than consumption. Nice, sustained profits over a longer time frame, and we can really enjoy the "hundred plus years" of energy. As it is, sounds like we're getting snowed by a patriotic spin game, and the oil companies are making even yet still more $$$.
    Being as this thread is still here,
    Yea, you nailed it, on the getting screwed aspect.

    FWIW,
    How much oil does the United States consume per year?

    The United States consumed a total of 6.87 billion barrels (18.83 million barrels per day) in 2011 and 7.0 billion barrels (19.18 million barrels per day) of refined petroleum products and biofuels in 2010. For both years, this was about 22% of total world petroleum consumption.
    How much oil does the United States consume per year? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
    There are 144 refineries, of which 134 are operating, and their combined daily output is 17,322,178 barrels.
    U.S. Number and Capacity of Petroleum Refineries

    How much of the oil produced in the United States is consumed in the United States?

    EIA cannot determine exactly the amount of crude oil produced in the United States (U.S.) that is consumed, as refined products, in the U.S.

    However, the majority of the crude oil produced in the U.S. is refined in U.S. refineries. The U.S. also produces other liquids that are used in the refining process that are added or blended with the refined products. In December 2012, the U.S. produced about 7.03 million barrels of crude oil per day and imported about 7.58 million barrels per day.

    EIA is not able to track how much domestically produced crude oil and other liquids are exported in the form of refined products. The small quantity of crude oil produced in the U.S. that is exported, nearly all to Canada, may actually be returned to the U.S. as refined products.

    The U.S. became a (slight) net exporter (exported more than we imported) of refined petroleum products in 2008. Refined petroleum products produced in the U.S. from both domestic and imported crude oil are exported to other countries. The volume of net exports of refined products in December 2012 was equivalent to about 8.5% of the total volume of U.S. petroleum consumption in December 2012.
    How much of the oil produced in the United States is consumed in the United States? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
    So I guess it really comes down to which EIA report you want to look at while being screwed

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    I believe it's mostly a matter of how the wholesale oil market works. It all gets fed into the giant established commodity trading market, and goes wherever. I guess it's better that we sell more than we buy, so we COULD be independent if the supplies from overseas get disrupted due to a war or something.

    The fracking thing is a big speed bump to alternative energy development. It will take something like the pain of ridiculously high-priced gas to get us off our ass and do some R&D.
    The only real problem is that we use more than we produce.
    If the import tap were to stop, we'd be screwed.

  5. #105
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    Global Scam

    I think global warming is a Global Scam. Just to scare people.. Why? 'cause few make money with fear. Just like scaring people that their going to die of high cholesterol and make them eat pills they really don't need. The pills are what really is going to kill you if you really don't need them.

    Some selfish b*stards have made a fine system to make money without really earning it. (by earning I mean they haven't done anything constructive that people or nature would benefit)

    This in the otherhand could be coming: The next big freeze could last 250 years: Experts say Sun's activity wanes every 200 years - and the next 'cooling period' is due by 2040 | Mail Online

    Im not saying climate change is a fraud. It is a normal cycle of life on earth.

    But looks like your going to need your fatty anyway..

  6. #106
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    Meanwhile, here in the north of Scotland we are all releasing as much CO2 and methane as we can in the hope of some global warming.

    Then we might get to see what this "summer" season is that all the southerners seem to enjoy.

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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Meanwhile, here in the north of Scotland we are all releasing as much CO2 and methane as we can in the hope of some global warming.

    Then we might get to see what this "summer" season is that all the southerners seem to enjoy.

    Funny

    Was speaking to my Brother in Norn Iron last night and he said they were having shocking weather for nearly June... so just the way I remember it.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    Meanwhile, here in the north of Scotland we are all releasing as much CO2 and methane as we can in the hope of some global warming.

    Then we might get to see what this "summer" season is that all the southerners seem to enjoy.

    global warming might cause english refuges to swarm up to your mountains. it's something to consider.

  9. #109
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    Yeah, just got some friends from Qld over. They thought they'd come for the summer. Poor sods are now wearing all my extreme weather gear and still shivering even though it's a balmy 5C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Volsung View Post
    global warming might cause english refuges to swarm up to your mountains. it's something to consider.
    You're forgetting our specially trained attack midges. They'd quickly swarm back...
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  10. #110
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    This thread should have ended right here. Basically sums it up:

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraspontane View Post
    Shut up, everyone. There is plenty of information out there should you be interested. You're not going to convince angry, science denying codgers of anything over an internet forum. If thousands of scientists, studies, and papers aren't going to convince them, you're not going to either.

    Just take it to the off topic section, will ya.
    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    Both sides have had their say so you can bin this now mods

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by duggus View Post
    This thread should have ended right here. Basically sums it up:
    I dunno, both sides seem to be having a polite discussion. We may not change minds, but if it can be done without resorting to insults and personal attacks? I see no reason why it can't continue.

    That being said? Seems to me, the most aggressive opinion sharing being done here, is by the folks who want the thread to go away. Curious......

    Onto other interesting topics, it's recently come to my attention that bedding down with the denier camp, is a whole, separate group of science resisters.

    I can't make this up people.

    Meteor doubters. Yes, they believe that meteors are a manufactured concept, designed to make us spend dollars on research, planning, tracking, awareness, etc.
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  12. #112
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    The stuff my family and friends are posting on facebook says it all.
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    I dunno, both sides seem to be having a polite discussion. We may not change minds, but if it can be done without resorting to insults and personal attacks? I see no reason why it can't continue.

    That being said? Seems to me, the most aggressive opinion sharing being done here, is by the folks who want the thread to go away. Curious......

    Onto other interesting topics, it's recently come to my attention that bedding down with the denier camp, is a whole, separate group of science resisters.

    I can't make this up people.

    Meteor doubters. Yes, they believe that meteors are a manufactured concept, designed to make us spend dollars on research, planning, tracking, awareness, etc.
    Curious that people don't come to the Fat Bikes forum to read the same global warming arguments over and over again? It's great that everyone is being so civil and all but this thread really should be in the off-topic forum since it no longer pertains to Fat Bikes or biking at all really.
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  14. #114
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    Halleluiah, They're not wrong, not right, right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by KK89 View Post
    I think global warming is a Global Scam. Just to scare people.. Why? 'cause few make money with fear. Just like scaring people that their going to die of high cholesterol and make them eat pills they really don't need. The pills are what really is going to kill you if you really don't need them.

    Some selfish b*stards have made a fine system to make money without really earning it. (by earning I mean they haven't done anything constructive that people or nature would benefit)

    This in the otherhand could be coming: The next big freeze could last 250 years: Experts say Sun's activity wanes every 200 years - and the next 'cooling period' is due by 2040 | Mail Online

    Im not saying climate change is a fraud. It is a normal cycle of life on earth.

    But looks like your going to need your fatty anyway..
    So I'm curious which of the following two facts that you dispute? 1) Mankind has caused the CO2 levels to increase by 40%. or 2) CO2 is a greenhouse gas.

    Because if one accepts those two facts as true, logic says the atmosphere should warm. There's no need to look any further at conspiracies or hoax's that involve virtually the entire world's science community.

  16. #116
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    I really don't think that humans can possibly cause any major damage to nature. Nature is stronger. Climate can warm or get colder.. it never stays the same. But I just don't think people are causing it. It happens 'cause nature go by it's own cycle. We simply can not do anything else but adapt. (Fatbikes)

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by KK89 View Post
    I really don't think that humans can possibly cause any major damage to nature. Nature is stronger. Climate can warm or get colder.. it never stays the same. But I just don't think people are causing it. It happens 'cause nature go by it's own cycle. We simply can not do anything else but adapt. (Fatbikes)

    Wow! And all those species of animals that we humans caused to go extinct? Must of been nature that did it.
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by KK89 View Post
    I really don't think that humans can possibly cause any major damage to nature. Nature is stronger. Climate can warm or get colder.. it never stays the same. But I just don't think people are causing it. It happens 'cause nature go by it's own cycle. We simply can not do anything else but adapt. (Fatbikes)
    Not trying to make your brain explode, but humans are part of nature. We're sort of like a virus that's infected the earth.

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    Advocates that global warming is mostly or solely man-made (I don't advocate any particular source for global warming if it exists, which it apparently does): Why does NASA keep the original source document data confidential? The only known reason is to spin, steer, and pre-determine the cause.
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    Which document?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bevalhalla View Post
    Which document?
    Kindly correct if the following is no longer true: NASA keeps confidential the original source data on which all their conclusions are based regarding the cause/source/reasons for so-called "global warming."

    If above is true, there is no good and only bad reasons for said confidentiality of original source data. TPTB often justify such action for reasons of "national security," which I estimate to be 90+% of the time pure unadulterated you know what.

    Normally any scientific conclusion lacking all accumulation of source data is laughed off the stage. It's the opposite of science and is rather considered voodoo.
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    The raw data got processed into several hundred papers. What kind of data would you like? Here's a few thousand Phd's worth of climate data: National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) | The world's largest active archive of weather and climate data producing and supplying data and publications for the world.

  23. #123
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    If the recent warming is due mostly to anthropogenic forces, which seems reasonable given the current data, I don't think nature will be significantly harmed because of it. Mother nature is very strong. We could do a lot of damage, burn all the fossil fuels, even nearly destroy all life with Nuclear war, and I'm pretty sure the planet will recover, and life will continue to exist for a very long time.

    I'm not sure how much we could even hurt the habitability for humans. Even if we were to stop producing CO2 by burning fossil fuels, what we have done already combined with the long term warming that has been happening since the last Ice age will bring about warmer global temperatures for some time. A lot of the greenhouse gas warming is self perpetuating. the warmer it gets, the more water vapor, methane and CO2 will be released, and it will get even warmer. All we can do is try not to speed it up any more than we have. Overall, we all have chosen to continue to burn fossil fuels by living a life full of the luxuries and conveniences that come with doing so. I think mankind will never choose to go back to preindustrial living just to avoid speeding up the warming of the planet. some say that if we don't take more drastic measures to reduce CO2 output, that terrible things will happen, but i think the only solution we have come up with right now is to reduce fuel consumption. Unless you have a lot of money to buy the more expensive carbon free energy, you will suffer some amount of hardship by reducing consumption. Of course we could all get by with less, but those who have less already would suffer the most. How can we tell developing countries not to take advantage of cheap, dirty energy like we have been doing for a couple hundred years. I don't think you will ever have a reduction in CO2 output until we run out of fossil fuels, and even if we do curb it's use, we will probably still end up using all of it eventually, so the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere will eventually reach it's potential. The only way to change this will be to come up with an alternate energy source that is just as cheap or cheaper, or a way to get rid of the carbon from the atmosphere that is reasonable. I don't think there are enough people that concerned about the long term climate to support regulations forced on the whole world, since it would require forcible action(war) to keep developing nations from burning any fossil fuel we decide not to use.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Not trying to make your brain explode, but humans are part of nature. We're sort of like a fatal virus that's infected the earth.
    I fixed it for you.
    Riding Fat and still just as fast as I never was.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashtestdummy View Post
    I fixed it for you.
    Gee, thanks. But I have the feeling that the earth will outlive us. Its "immune system" is bound to kick in at any time.

  26. #126
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    Interesting perspectives are within this thread, and few (globally, not just in this thread) seem to be looking at WHY some within positions of influence offer their bias/argument so openly to the public.

    IMO,
    The argument isn't about the environment, it's about controlling others, and making a profit from the confusion.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Interesting perspectives are within this thread, and few (globally, not just in this thread) seem to be looking at WHY some within positions of influence offer their bias/argument so openly to the public.

    IMO,
    The argument isn't about the environment, it's about controlling others, and making a profit from the confusion.
    Not sure what you're getting at here.
    Who, exactly is trying to control who? And who is making these profits?

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by autodoctor911 View Post
    If the recent warming is due mostly to anthropogenic forces, which seems reasonable given the current data, I don't think nature will be significantly harmed because of it. Mother nature is very strong. We could do a lot of damage, burn all the fossil fuels, even nearly destroy all life with Nuclear war, and I'm pretty sure the planet will recover, and life will continue to exist for a very long time.

    I'm not sure how much we could even hurt the habitability for humans. Even if we were to stop producing CO2 by burning fossil fuels, what we have done already combined with the long term warming that has been happening since the last Ice age will bring about warmer global temperatures for some time. A lot of the greenhouse gas warming is self perpetuating. the warmer it gets, the more water vapor, methane and CO2 will be released, and it will get even warmer. All we can do is try not to speed it up any more than we have. Overall, we all have chosen to continue to burn fossil fuels by living a life full of the luxuries and conveniences that come with doing so. I think mankind will never choose to go back to preindustrial living just to avoid speeding up the warming of the planet. some say that if we don't take more drastic measures to reduce CO2 output, that terrible things will happen, but i think the only solution we have come up with right now is to reduce fuel consumption. Unless you have a lot of money to buy the more expensive carbon free energy, you will suffer some amount of hardship by reducing consumption. Of course we could all get by with less, but those who have less already would suffer the most. How can we tell developing countries not to take advantage of cheap, dirty energy like we have been doing for a couple hundred years. I don't think you will ever have a reduction in CO2 output until we run out of fossil fuels, and even if we do curb it's use, we will probably still end up using all of it eventually, so the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere will eventually reach it's potential. The only way to change this will be to come up with an alternate energy source that is just as cheap or cheaper, or a way to get rid of the carbon from the atmosphere that is reasonable. I don't think there are enough people that concerned about the long term climate to support regulations forced on the whole world, since it would require forcible action(war) to keep developing nations from burning any fossil fuel we decide not to use.
    Why Doc...You and I have the same basic understanding...all without you leading me by the hand! Though I will grant that you have said it better than I.

    Now IF this global warming thing is true...think I will look for lots of wide open land deals in Antarctica. See...global warming CAN have an upside!

    Better yet...get the Rights to sell...make lots of $.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Not sure what you're getting at here.
    Who, exactly is trying to control who? And who is making these profits?
    Start by researching UN Agenda 21, and Sustainable Development ... Those 2 topics will take many weeks to digest, provide you with a wealth of information, and might cause you to develop a similar opinion, as they lead you to a multi-decade plan for implementation, that is already over 50 years in the making.

    FWIW,
    IMO,
    Al Gore arrived late to the party.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Rat View Post
    Better yet...get the Rights to sell...make lots of $.
    This rabbit hole has many paths

  31. #131
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    [QUOTE=bikeabuser;10420244

    FWIW,
    IMO,
    Al Gore arrived late to the party.[/QUOTE]

    Yip... Algore has his carbon credits, just a piece of paper. I'll be offering you honest to goodness L_A_N_D!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ro7939 View Post
    Advocates that global warming is mostly or solely man-made (I don't advocate any particular source for global warming if it exists, which it apparently does): Why does NASA keep the original source document data confidential? The only known reason is to spin, steer, and pre-determine the cause.

    Total nonsense. Did you confirm the story with a reliable source? There are reams of data available at the NASA site and they are holding nothing back. You are repeating a lie fostered by the fossil fuel interests.

    Global ocean heat and salt content

    Regardless, there is a huge breadth of data from many places and sources. They all essentially say the same thing.

    And you may want to look again at the chart I posted above and then come back and tell us you don't know where the warming is coming from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Interesting perspectives are within this thread, and few (globally, not just in this thread) seem to be looking at WHY some within positions of influence offer their bias/argument so openly to the public.

    IMO,
    The argument isn't about the environment, it's about controlling others, and making a profit from the confusion.

    That's correct. That's exactly what the fossil fuel interests through their minions are doing by continuing to deny the science and spreading disinformation. They have one of political parties under their wing and groveling at their feet. They control the party and they profit from the confusion over AGW.

    This idea that the vast green power industry has more control than the puny fossil fuel industry is amusing.

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    If the earth was a bowling ball, a ping pong ball would hold all of it's air. (at sea level pressure).

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    Quote Originally Posted by KK89 View Post
    I really don't think that humans can possibly cause any major damage to nature. Nature is stronger. Climate can warm or get colder.. it never stays the same. But I just don't think people are causing it. It happens 'cause nature go by it's own cycle. We simply can not do anything else but adapt. (Fatbikes)
    We are doing face and double-arm transplants now.

    Have you ever even seen new york city?

    Man>nature.
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  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bevalhalla View Post
    The raw data got processed into several hundred papers. What kind of data would you like? Here's a few thousand Phd's worth of climate data: National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) | The world's largest active archive of weather and climate data producing and supplying data and publications for the world.
    Hey, I use that data all the time at work! I sure hope it's not a conspiracy!
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    Here in Anchorage they have to increase rate to cover the cost of a few wind turbines we have.
    Dude, we don't even pay taxes here. They give us money each year to live here. Bring on the turbines, we're rolling in cash.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Start by researching UN Agenda 21, and Sustainable Development ... Those 2 topics will take many weeks to digest, provide you with a wealth of information, and might cause you to develop a similar opinion, as they lead you to a multi-decade plan for implementation, that is already over 50 years in the making.

    FWIW,
    IMO,
    Al Gore arrived late to the party.
    What's the deal with you Americans and the fear of the UN? The UN is the only form of world democracy we have, but the US has regularly opposed UN treaties that are not in their interest. Take the international treaty against genocide. The US made reservations against that, meaning that the US thinks it should be allowed to perform genocide without repercussions.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmooveP View Post
    Not trying to make your brain explode, but humans are part of nature. We're sort of like a virus that's infected the earth.

    Well that I agree. We are a decease witch will be defeated by nature.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Interesting perspectives are within this thread, and few (globally, not just in this thread) seem to be looking at WHY some within positions of influence offer their bias/argument so openly to the public.

    IMO,
    The argument isn't about the environment, it's about controlling others, and making a profit from the confusion.

    Spot on!

  41. #141
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    I think we should still prefer things that are less harmful to nature, whether we are the cause of GW or not.

    Go to work/school 5km (3.11 M) from your home, by car or bicycle.. you decide.


    Edit:
    All civilizations before us have been whiped out. Why not ours? We are killing ourselves not the planet.


    (Well now it comes down to, what we're talking about?.. Destroying the planet or the humankind?)

  42. #142
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    Pheeewww this thread is aptly named. 146 post in 6 days.... that will be stressing the fatbike forum server.

    It would go well in the Passion forum, there would be a few of the usual earth muffins, non drinkers and gun haters show up... a sh1t fight would occur followed by a whole lot of negging then ensued by it being locked
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  43. #143
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    That they haven't goes to prove the point that this sub forum is the best on MTBR

    Kind of like watching a train wreck though...gota look.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innota View Post
    What's the deal with you Americans and the fear of the UN? The UN is the only form of world democracy we have, but the US has regularly opposed UN treaties that are not in their interest. Take the international treaty against genocide. The US made reservations against that, meaning that the US thinks it should be allowed to perform genocide without repercussions.
    Oh, it's actually really simple ... Us Americans don't live in a Democracy.
    We have a limited Republic.

    As for your genocide example,
    and many other International issues we don't sign into agreement with,
    You have to look at the big picture and relate it back to "Our" system of Government.
    Signing an agreement that might place our troops under an organizations control for enforcement purposes ... We already do to much policing of the planet.
    No need tohave others telling us to play World Cop.
    But nice twist on genocidal reality you present.

    Concerning "fearing" the UN ... It became (IMO) a worthless political leverage arm many decades ago.

    But,
    If you're really in favor of a World Democracy ... I'll never be able to convince you that it is a worthless organization, and that "We" as a nation should have pulled out of that organization, long ago.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by KK89 View Post
    I think we should still prefer things that are less harmful to nature, whether we are the cause of GW or not.

    Go to work/school 5km (3.11 M) from your home, by car or bicycle.. you decide.


    Edit:
    All civilizations before us have been whiped out. Why not ours? We are killing ourselves not the planet.


    (Well now it comes down to, what we're talking about?.. Destroying the planet or the humankind?)
    I completely agree ... And prefer education and choices over National and International forced changes via legislation.

    If we choose wrong, and die because of it, the planet will still exist, after we are gone.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Pheeewww this thread is aptly named. 146 post in 6 days.... that will be stressing the fatbike forum server.

    It would go well in the Passion forum, there would be a few of the usual earth muffins, non drinkers and gun haters show up... a sh1t fight would occur followed by a whole lot of negging then ensued by it being locked
    Quote Originally Posted by Sand Rat View Post
    That they haven't goes to prove the point that this sub forum is the best on MTBR

    Kind of like watching a train wreck though...gota look.


    Couldn't agree more ... A good crowd in this section.

    I still want to ride on snow.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Oh, it's actually really simple ... Us Americans don't live in a Democracy.
    We have a limited Republic.

    As for your genocide example,
    and many other International issues we don't sign into agreement with,
    You have to look at the big picture and relate it back to "Our" system of Government.
    Signing an agreement that might place our troops under an organizations control for enforcement purposes ... We already do to much policing of the planet.
    No need tohave others telling us to play World Cop.
    But nice twist on genocidal reality you present.

    Concerning "fearing" the UN ... It became (IMO) a worthless political leverage arm many decades ago.

    But,
    If you're really in favor of a World Democracy ... I'll never be able to convince you that it is a worthless organization, and that "We" as a nation should have pulled out of that organization, long ago.
    The reason that the UN becomes powerless on a lot of issues is simply that the US doesn't respect any rulings or treaties that doesn't favor them. If a ruling is not in the US interest then the US simply ignores it. This is extremely dangerous for the rest of the world, since other countries are at the mercy of US leadership without having any say in any issues that concern them ,because the US simply ignores the UN if they don't act in their interest.

    The funny part is that opinion polls even show a majority of US citizens being in favor of the United Nations, and the leaderships disaccord with the public opinion is not exactly very democratic.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innota View Post
    The reason that the UN becomes powerless on a lot of issues is simply that the US doesn't respect any rulings or treaties that doesn't favor them. If a ruling is not in the US interest then the US simply ignores it. This is extremely dangerous for the rest of the world, since other countries are at the mercy of US leadership without having any say in any issues that concern them ,because the US simply ignores the UN if they don't act in their interest.

    The funny part is that opinion polls even show a majority of US citizens being in favor of the United Nations, and the leaderships disaccord with the public opinion is not exactly very democratic.
    Funny how that seems to work.
    Why do you think such an organization is powerless without the United States ?

    As for polls,
    They can't be trusted, and many people can't even tell you who there elected officials are ... They don't want to be bothered with such things when they have Survivor, Celebrity Apprentice, and a multitude of other entertainment outlets available to occupy their idle time.

    IMO,
    If more people realized what their government does on it's behalf, they'd be upset with the actions, and polls about UN involvement would be much different.

    Examples:
    Howard Stern Exposes Obama Voters Again! 2012 Edition! - YouTube
    Confusing Question of the Day - Obama, IRS, and Benghazi - YouTube

    Sad examples, and most assuredly (intentionally) skewed, but ... It showing how oblivious many people are to the workings of their government.

    ETA:
    Realize, also,
    That any Treaty the US enters into must be ratified or it hold no weight within the Nations structure of Government.
    Ratification is when the people of the Nation become the power brokers ... Many things that some (other Nations) feel are ignored, are not ignored, they are dismissed because the People would not agree with the core of said Treaty.

    Truth be told, many Nations have signed onto treaties that actually hold no enforcable status, but make (some) people feel good.

  49. #149
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    We should probably get away from politics, or this thread will get closed.

    Then again,
    Most anything that isn't about a bike, can become, or is political.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Funny how that seems to work.
    Why do you think such an organization is powerless without the United States ?

    As for polls,
    They can't be trusted, and many people can't even tell you who there elected officials are ... They don't want to be bothered with such things when they have Survivor, Celebrity Apprentice, and a multitude of other entertainment outlets available to occupy their idle time.

    IMO,
    If more people realized what their government does on it's behalf, they'd be upset with the actions, and polls about UN involvement would be much different.

    Examples:
    Howard Stern Exposes Obama Voters Again! 2012 Edition! - YouTube
    Confusing Question of the Day - Obama, IRS, and Benghazi - YouTube

    Sad examples, and most assuredly (intentionally) skewed, but ... It showing how oblivious many people are to the workings of their government.
    It's obvious why the UN can't do much if the US disagrees. It is because the US is the worlds most powerful nation. BUT this does not mean that it should be that way, or that it is right. Democracy is based on accepting the outcome of majority decisions. You can't abolish democratic decisions just because you don't like their outcome (something the US has been fond of doing).

    And regarding the opinion polls: that people doesn't know any better is hardly an argument that can or should be raised, and frankly sounds like something that 18th century aristocracy would say with regards to democracy. If one takes it that serious polling organizations such as Gallup knows how to do opinion polls, then such polls do reflect public opinion and should hardly be compared with what two-bit radio hosts such as Howard Stern calls "polling".

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