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Thread: Seriously?

  1. #51
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    Forget global warming, you guys have bigger issues going on there. That snow is blue for gods sake!!!

    Whatever floats your bike, dude

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6roller View Post
    My apologies for writing what sounded like a rave as a reaction to "Beachride"'s inclusion of global warming into this thread about a late winter storm in Alaska.

    I had hoped to present a countering view. Please do not think that I am so egocentric or uninformed to think that cooling in my locale is the only event in sight.

    I had hoped that some persons might take the first 5 minutes of that documentary and consider the possibility of conspiracy.

    It seems a discussion devoid of name calling is unlikely. It seems that others' minds are set already. It seems that others' are unwilling to allow the holder of a countering view some modicum of intelligence or common sense.

    I will bow out of this dialogue.
    There is a conspiracy....to sow doubt about GW. There are very powerful interests who do not want to see us move away from fossil fuels.

    For there to be a pro GW conspiracy it must a big one that involves 97% of all the world's climate scientists and all of it's science organizations and literally thousands of scientists and all of their data of which there is a huge amount from various sources and of various types. It's just not credible.

    But simple common sense tells one that if an important greenhouse gas like CO2 goes by up 40% then temps will also. It is actually a pretty simple logical thing.
    Last edited by beachride; 05-21-2013 at 07:25 PM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    Is anyone here old enough to remember in school when they told us that pollution in the atmosphere was causing it to cool and we were going to have another ice age. How about the hole in the ozone. Then global warming, now its climate change. All from the same people that live by the publish or perish standard. Man has known that the world is a changing place from the dawn of time. Yes the human race has had an effect on the earth and we should do as much as we can to protect it. But we still need to live here and boy do I like to burn that fossil fuel to heat my house, to go places in a very short time and to make all though thing that make my life easier. I am a consumer of goods as we all are.

    It is a common misconception that a coming ice age was predicted back in the seventies. The reality is that the majority of studies predicted warming, however the popular press published the theory of coming cooling the most thus it is what folks remember.

    The ozone layer is a good example of a problem seen by the world, laws passed and now the ozone layer has stopped getting worse and is starting to recover.



    Sorry to all if I come on too strong. This is a special issue of concern for me. My college education is in environmental science though I don't work in science now. I cannot let stand misstatements about it or let politics define it.

  4. #54
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    Unfortunately I don't think climate change is irrelevant to fatbiking - snow, ice, and freezing temps are important. Around here (VT) everyone from the the ski areas to snowmobile dealers to maple sugarers are concerned. While this is a global issue, the data from your backyard may be most informative - check whats going on locally.

    We have a couple lakes with 40 years of freeze-up and ice out data, and the trend is for freeze up to be about 4 days later/decade, ice-out in spring to be about 3 days earlier per decade. So about 7 days less of frozen conditions every decade for the last 4. A month less of winter in less than my lifetime seems pretty significant.

    For anyone that wants the data, see http://www.anr.state.vt.us/anr/clima...ngeVTBetts.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
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  6. #56
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    OK Seriously...

    IF global warming IS a fact, there has to be an upside. Why is it presented as a doom and gloom thing? We HAVE to SAVE the planet...or...we are ALL going to DIE!

    Please establish which is first...a rise in temps or a rise in CO2 giving rise to temps.
    When the weather turns warmer in the spring, plant life increases, which increases...CO2production. Plants need CO2 and from them Oxygen is released.

    Warmer temps increase the amount of water vapor in the air, producing rain. Which in turn increases plant growth in the more arid regions...and so it goes until there is a reset point reached. Back and forth until an self sustaining point is reached?

    Lets not forget that furnace up there in the sky. Turn that thermostat up or down just a notch, I submit can and will bring about a larger change than man could by trying.

    Another thing, IF we are the cause, and if in a warming trend we are being told to cut back upon CO2 production...So when it turns...and we ARE looking at an ice age...then what? Get out the diesel, gasoline, remove all the solar panels, and the wind farms?

    Yeah...and if you don't...the government will tax you into compliance...all for your own good...you understand.

    IF man has this type of control over the climate, how come we (they) can't get the forecast right more often? Oh yeah, my crops need rain and Joe over in the next state needs less, can they fix us up?

    As things now stand, I fail to see any reasonable reason as to why I should care.

    With the exception of those who seek to enrich themselves at my expense over this drummed up issue.

    There...now I feel better!

  7. #57
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    Re: Seriously?

    I guess the one upside to these climate threads, is that they expose the dullards and dummies for all to see, when you otherwise wouldn't know.

  8. #58
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    Sand Rat - you should care: Food prices will change (for the worse). We have to breathe the stuff we put into crowded city air (this is a current problem, not a projected one).

    It doesn't really matter, though. Millions of years from now, the sun will die and swallow up our planet. Unless we become a space faring species, who gives a crap?

    I'm playing devil's advocate with that last question. For me, it is about being a good tenant. We are only renters, after all.

    HEY LET'S TALK ABOUT BIKES AND BIKE RIDING AND WHEELS AND PONIES HOLY SH!T WOULDN'T IT BE COOL TO HAVE A PONY
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by beachride View Post
    It is a common misconception that a coming ice age was predicted back in the seventies. The reality is that the majority of studies predicted warming, however the popular press published the theory of coming cooling the most thus it is what folks remember....
    I distinctly remember being taught that in our science classes. But that was in the 60s in Scotland, so it was easy to believe in a coming ice age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    ...HEY ... HOLY SH!T WOULDN'T IT BE COOL TO HAVE A PONY
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  10. #60
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    Don't take me wrong Drew, here in the wonderful Willamette Valley of Oregon, the Indians have a name for it...the valley of death, and I reside at the south end, if you get my drift. I was railing against what I see as nothing more than hype, not to diminish our God given duty to be a good steward. Therein is the bait on the hook.

    What is lacking is balance. Balance in the quest for the truth and in education. Without the former the latter are indoctrinating, not educating.

    And I also remember the fears/hype over the coming ice age, same thing, a play on emotion. Somebody raises an honest question, and those who see $$$ to be had fan the unstableness of the Chicken Little's. With the ensuing racket the public becomes alarmed...over what, no one is quite sure. They just want the racket to stop so they can go about their lives in peace.

    With all the methane on this thread...anybody got a match?

  11. #61
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    ^ And now we got Gawd in the fatty forum.
    mods move or burn this please

  12. #62
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    Why do people insist on teaching the incorrect side of the story too? If 97% of scientists agree that there not only IS global warming, but that it's man made, then there is no other side of the story to teach.

  13. #63
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    Come on folks we are past Global Warming Itís now Climate Change! We need a new stream of Gov. funding, if we donít we will have a lot of people look for jobs, Thatís bad I guess

  14. #64
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    See that old fellow in sackcloth and covered in ashes?

    That's me doing penance. Truly sorry I mentioned the meteorological phenomenon which must not be named.

    Can we now divert our energies to pouring scorn onto Walgoose owners/nonowners*. Please?




    *You get to pick your own victim.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by E6roller View Post
    Sure!!!!!!!! ice on the lakes longer than ever! not a question about it here!!! Global warming??

    Sea Level's rising 20 feet in the next 100 years???? Not possible, yet the anthropomorphic-apologist, global weirding crowd continue to state this.

    I live in an area (SouthCenctral Alaska) that is glaciated more than most of the earth. I fly airplanes and am unable to believe that all of this ice I see added to the earths waters, along with Greenland's ice, Iceland's ice, and Antarctica's ice, Russia and Canada's ice........ could raise waters even inches, yet the global warming advocates state we should fear 20 feet of rise worldwide. Look at a Globe, look at the ice, THINK! Their postulations DO NOT Make SENSE.
    This comment made me wonder. The area of the oceans is enormous compared to the land and the area of land covered by ice is just a small fraction. So I did some math.

    Greenland ice sheet is 2400x1100 km and about 2km deep. The more exact estimates are 1,710,000 square kilometres and 2,850,000 cubic kilometres of ice.
    The worlds oceans have an area of about 361 million km≤.
    So if the entire Greenland ice sheet were to melt that 2.8 million km^3 would be divided among the 361 million km^2 area of the ocean for about 7.7 m deep

    And the Antarctic ice sheet is bigger
    And that does not account for any glaciers in Alaska, Canada, Asia, etc.

    So it seems it is possible mathematically.

    Craig

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volsung View Post
    Why do people insist on teaching the incorrect side of the story too? If 97% of scientists agree that there not only IS global warming, but that it's man made, then there is no other side of the story to teach.
    That's what always irks me. There is one side, the facts, and that is that the earth is getting hotter because of human activities. There is no dispute about that, and thus no "other side". Saying that you have to present "the other side", or else it is "unbalanced", is like saying that you must present the theory of the flying spaghetti monster as an equal theory of evolution. It is just bananas and it has no basis in facts and reality.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innota View Post
    That's what always irks me. There is one side, the facts, and that is that the earth is getting hotter because of human activities. There is no dispute about that, and thus no "other side". Saying that you have to present "the other side", or else it is "unbalanced", is like saying that you must present the theory of the flying spaghetti monster as an equal theory of evolution. It is just bananas and it has no basis in facts and reality.

    Yup. It's called false equivalency. But I suspect you know that.


  18. #68
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    Re: Seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by Innota View Post
    That's what always irks me. There is one side, the facts, and that is that the earth is getting hotter because of human activities. There is no dispute about that, and thus no "other side". Saying that you have to present "the other side", or else it is "unbalanced", is like saying that you must present the theory of the flying spaghetti monster as an equal theory of evolution. It is just bananas and it has no basis in facts and reality.
    We live in a post fact society. The truth no longer matters. It's all about who shouts the loudest and longest.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike View Post
    See that old fellow in sackcloth and covered in ashes?

    That's me doing penance. Truly sorry I mentioned the meteorological phenomenon which must not be named.
    not to worry guy. Not your fault or the OP at all.

    sryanak probably hates this post more than the weather that got him down in the first place
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volsung View Post
    Why do people insist on teaching the incorrect side of the story too? If 97% of scientists agree that there not only IS global warming, but that it's man made, then there is no other side of the story to teach.
    Then the argument goes to "well, those scientists are involved in a conspiracy so they can keep their funding money!". Cute, but then we can not trust any science? Seriously? This is what people think? As someone who has conducted experiments and analyzed data, this is hugely offensive. I even got a grant to conduct research (and it almost covered the taxes on my clases!), but the whole academic community is full of checks and balances to ensure the science isn't biased or fabricated. So that automatically means anyone who has ever conducted science was just trying to cheat some system? People that live with these kind of belief systems are just flipping crazy.
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  21. #71
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    Ya right sound like the fox watching the hen house not a thing to worry about

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by exp18 View Post
    Ya right sound like the fox watching the hen house not a thing to worry about
    You can't trust anyone. You'll have to shoot anyone you see.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  23. #73
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    Good job! Thanks for posting Sryanak

    Quote Originally Posted by MiniTrail View Post
    not to worry guy. Not your fault or the OP at all.

    sryanak probably hates this post more than the weather that got him down in the first place
    By Sryanak's own words, this thread was started for fun. I just don't think he understood how others could/would interrupt his aim.

    He has a sense of humor, so perhaps he has been splitting his gut with laughter?

    At any rate, I have. Enjoyed this thread more than any I can remember. Seems to me, others have also.

    So thanks Sryanak!

  24. #74
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    One example of the checks and balances in science; the geological science organizations were some of the last to accept the science due to their relationship to petroleum and coal. If they could find some reasonable way to deny it they would. But even they now agree, along with every other science organization in the world.

    The problem is no-one knows about this stuff because it's simply not talked about in the lame-stream media/TV. There are reasons for that. It's not surprising that there is so much confusion about it.

    Most folks think the science is far more unsure than it really is. The experts are sure but the average person is not, nor do they think the experts are sure.


    BTW sryanak, Thank you for your sacrifice Snow melted yet? How 'bout that weather? Nevermind (it used to be a safe way to start a conversation )
    Last edited by beachride; 05-22-2013 at 10:50 PM.

  25. #75
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    The "conspiracy" bit, baffles me.

    On one side, you have a group (big oil) making money, hand over fist, with the status quo.

    If you move to the other side, you'll have a group (currently "the greenies"), making money, hand over fist, by selling new technologies.

    So it's not about money being made or not. Big oil could wise up and start being the "green energy" providers, and I don't think any of us would blink and eye, or care.

    What baffles me is, why is it bad to be concerned about the one and only planet that we all have to live on? Seems the changes towards "greener" technologies still allow profits to be made, and allow for our world to be passed down to our great grandchildren, in a condition that they can use for sustaining life, and that we'd more or less recognize.

    At the same time, we'd save money by not needing to use as much energy, extracting energy. That money could be put to other uses, like education, recreation, whatever.

    What in that, is a "conspiracy", and who's "getting screwed" by it?

    Funny how all the deniers oppose more efficient, cleaner technology. I always wonder why they don't keep their windows open all the time at home, be it hot, or cold. Might as well let the heat, or A/C you paid for flow outside, since you so detest the conservation of resources......

    And since the denier group seems to be springing from the right end of the political spectrum, did they all forget they are conservatives? Start conserving already!

    As for the OP? I dunno, Fatbikers as a group, for the most part, love some good snow, so the fact that our snow delivery is getting wonky, seems this is a good thread. Kept polite, this topic needs discussion, if only so the folks who want it to stay the way it is currently, can explain to those of us baffled by such a mindset, why they think the way they do.
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