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  1. #1
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    Reasons why say NO on a DROPPER SEATPOST

    What are your reasons why you are hesitant to join the band wagon? I am selling my KS post at a very low price to my friend as its already having problems so I am now thinking if I should go back to a fixed post or try the REVERB? Any thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Biking is what I do to get away from the problems not create more. Still waiting for someone to get it right, they're getting closer I think. I've ridden many years without one I can wait another one if I have to.

  3. #3
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    KS had a bad run of seals - out of tolerance. Got mine fixed at the beginning of the year and can't imagine riding without. Used to think like dumbass but now I realize how much time I wasted by waiting - improves my enjoyment of the sport that much!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  4. #4
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    So both of you guys cant live without a dropper post uh?I am trying to decide to settle on a fixed post or spend on a post that does not know when it will explode =)

  5. #5
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    I don't have one.

    Don't wanna take the time to order it
    I can raise and lower my seat while i'm riding with my salsa clamp
    dislike of complexity/too many failures/fear of seat getting stuck down
    ignorance is bliss
    added weight


    I'll probably own one eventually, but now is not the time.
    I like cheap stuff that works great and is very sturdy.

  6. #6
    the giant.
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    when i bought my new frame used the guy included a ks dropper post. love it. so much easier to transition from ups to downs and have room for the "goods."

    granted, i would never buy one new. ide rather raise/lower my seat by hand instead of spending $200+ on a seatpost. but if you can get one for minimal cost, go for it!

  7. #7
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    *sigh* Get a Gravity Dropper and run it for years without issue. No oil. No air spring. Full mechanical function, great support. It's ugly. Get over it.

    If you want pretty, you get issues too. (sounds like life )

    In a couple of years the air and oil droppers will get their issues sorted, but life is to short not to get low and pin that turn/huck that jump/soak up that drop.

    P

  8. #8
    nocturnal oblivion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    *sigh* Get a Gravity Dropper and run it for years without issue. No oil. No air spring. Full mechanical function, great support. It's ugly. Get over it.

    If you want pretty, you get issues too. (sounds like life )

    In a couple of years the air and oil droppers will get their issues sorted, but life is to short not to get low and pin that turn/huck that jump/soak up that drop.

    P
    Exactly. Tried and true design. Takes under a minute to give a regular service when needed. It's not going to win any awards for looks, but my bike isn't entering any fashion contests either.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  9. #9
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    so... is this the 'reasons why say NO on a DROPPER SEATPOST so we can tell you you're wrong and to spend more money on bike knicknacks' thread?

    I vote for a moratorium on posts to that effect.
    I like cheap stuff that works great and is very sturdy.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LGavin View Post
    What are your reasons why you are hesitant to join the band wagon? I am selling my KS post at a very low price to my friend as its already having problems so I am now thinking if I should go back to a fixed post or try the REVERB? Any thoughts?
    I have two KS posts. I put up with the added weight and maintenance. I can't imagine riding without one

  11. #11
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    My KS has a sagging issue and i think even if you have rebuilt it it will happen again and again like every after 4 rides. That's the reason why I am getting rid of it already and might try a REVERB or just a fixed post.

  12. #12
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    I had a GD for a while. Brilliant piece of hardware. I sold it to save over 1/2 lb and regret it like a mofo. I'd give my left nut to get another one.
    I get my boards at Lux-RC.com

  13. #13
    the giant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LGavin View Post
    My KS has a sagging issue and i think even if you have rebuilt it it will happen again and again like every after 4 rides. That's the reason why I am getting rid of it already and might try a REVERB or just a fixed post.
    some of the ks posts are suspension posts as well. the "sag" is the suspension at work. i have the ks i850 and this happens if im not completely on the back of the saddle. it takes getting used to, but i dont mind it on my HT

  14. #14
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    Cost and weight for me. I like taking my time on rides, and most of my rides are all up then all down so i don't change my seatpost height more than two to four times in a ride.

  15. #15
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    For those who say they there's no point in dropping your post during a climb, obviously climb on fire roads or carpet'd singletracks, because I set up my dropper to have the saddle at the most optimal height for pedaling efficiency. But the reality is the most optimal height is entirely too high for techy climbs.

    Question: for those of you who use a dropper, how many times a minute do you think you tweak your saddle height, even during a climb? When I last paid attention, it was at least twice. I have it on my left hand and I'm on it as much as shifting w/ my right hand.
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  16. #16
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    I think they're a great idea, and no doubt improve your ride when they're working and not bothering you with shake/wobble etc, but it seems to me that they're still a generation or two away from being sufficiently reliable that I'd bother getting one.

  17. #17
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    I can't live without mine. I just treat them like any other disposable piece on my bike.... like tires, chains, chain rings, cassettes, brake pads, derailleurs, etc. They're too expensive and they wear out and you have to replace them...... but you gotta have them. What you gonna do?

    I have three (four if you count my old clapped out Maverick Speedball). The only one that hasn't had a problem yet is the KS 950i. I rotate them as they need attention or need replacing. Sure, I wish they were more problem free and lasted longer.... but I'm not going to stop using them.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantR View Post
    Cost and weight for me. I like taking my time on rides, and most of my rides are all up then all down so i don't change my seatpost height more than two to four times in a ride.
    I can understand that

    Seat down is all that really seems to matter.

    P

  19. #19
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    well i cant see the point is having a device to change the seat up and down

    also more to go wrong wouldn't have to worry about seat failing then being too low on the seat to get power

    i suppose it like remote lockout you either love it or hate it

  20. #20
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    the 2012 rockshox reverb I think will be more reliable than any other older dropper seatpost brands.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    *sigh* Get a Gravity Dropper and run it for years without issue. No oil. No air spring. Full mechanical function, great support. It's ugly. Get over it.

    If you want pretty, you get issues too. (sounds like life )

    In a couple of years the air and oil droppers will get their issues sorted, but life is to short not to get low and pin that turn/huck that jump/soak up that drop.

    P
    +1

    Love my GD and have had no issues since I first got it. It was sticking a little so I paid $20 to have the local shop service it and now it works better then when I first got it. Just needed some grease.

  22. #22
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    I want one!.... I think?

    been wanting one and have the money all saved up, but just cant decide

    1)add @ 500+gms (yes, i do visit ww forum often)
    2)add another cable and lever to bar(jealous of single speed simplicity)
    3) possible failure of dropper (least of my concerns really but still factor)
    OR

    1)get lower for tech stuff,climbing and decending
    2)get even lower for the stuff that really scares me
    3) get alittle higher for the steep & smooth ( on most tech trails i have saddle a little lower than the optimal height for climbing efficiently)

    so i just keep waiting,wondering, reading threads like this

    BTW...Aren Timmel won this years TS100 with a dropper post! actually he smashed the coarse! so, i think i am going to get one!
    .......I think...
    .....the end

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    For those who say they there's no point in dropping your post during a climb, obviously climb on fire roads or carpet'd singletracks, because I set up my dropper to have the saddle at the most optimal height for pedaling efficiency. But the reality is the most optimal height is entirely too high for techy climbs.

    Question: for those of you who use a dropper, how many times a minute do you think you tweak your saddle height, even during a climb? When I last paid attention, it was at least twice. I have it on my left hand and I'm on it as much as shifting w/ my right hand.
    I have a KS and totally agree - I waste so much headspace wondering if I should raise or lower constantly. Solid post still has charm a d forces you to focus on what's important - riding your bike.

  24. #24
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    Five seasons on a Classic Gravity Post and still going strong,why anyone would go with any other brand is beyond me,have seen friends break,have mechanical issues on other major brands and now all run the Gravity.

  25. #25
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    When I go geAred, I will run out and buy a GD post. In the meantime, I stand to climb and to descend on my SS, so the need just isn't there for me. I'm sure they are a transformative bauble and all.
    Responds to gravity

  26. #26
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    If the trails you ride most don't involve any steep downhills, you don't need one. If they involve a long climb followed by a long descent, you don't need one. If you enjoy having the seat all up in your junk when descending steep stuff, you don't need one.

    Our trails have many short, steep ups and downs which makes a dropper post useful. I prefer having the seat low when descending on my trail bike (got used to it riding DH) even though I can manage most stuff with the seat up. It's just more fun with it lower. I use my dropper post dozens of times on a typical ride. YMMV.

    I've been using an AMP since 2009 with no issues so far. Too bad Precision Cycling Components seems to have dropped off the map.

  27. #27
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    There are only two reasons not to run a Gravity Dropper. 1 - you cant afford one or 2 - you only ever ride on flat ground. Personally, I think they are the single best upgrade for mountain bikes since the suspension forks and disk brakes and will never again own a mountain bike without one.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhinofly View Post
    There are only two reasons not to run a Gravity Dropper. 1 - you cant afford one or 2 - you only ever ride on flat ground. Personally, I think they are the single best upgrade for mountain bikes since the suspension forks and disk brakes and will never again own a mountain bike without one.
    Bingo!!

    The only mountain bike I will own without one is my pure endurance racing machine as that has to be the lightest bike there, and we don't do that much technical stuff in 100 mile races.

    The Gravity Dropper is a good alternative for those worried about seals and hydraulic stuff. If that thing fails, it will also fail up, rather then down, and they have a great warranty.

    -Tom

  29. #29
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    I want one, but I don't need one, because I don't race, and have coil front and rear because I ride a lot so I have enough weight already. If I hear consistent reports that they last at least for a few years I'll be in.

  30. #30
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    (1) if you have to use credit to buy one
    (2) if you don't ride technical terrain where there's a great benefit in raising and lowering the seat
    (3) if you can't deal with imperfect designs. All of them have issues still, at least over a large population.

    I had a Gravity Dropper and it was okay but finicky and I didn't like the fixed positions. Sold it and bought a KS and love the KS but it does stick some. However, it has been great over several thousand miles of trail riding with an average of about 15-25 seat cycles per hour.

  31. #31
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    I have a Reverb on my bike but hardly ever use it. I do ride a lot of technical climbs and descents, but after 10 years of BMX riding with my saddle high (80's) and 25 years or MTB of riding my saddle high (never ran a QR) it feels very strange to have the seat lower. All of my friends ride them and wonder why I never use it, but I can move around on my bike just fine without it. No problem getting behind the seat during sketchy descent or drops.

    I am trying to remember to use it, but even then I only drop it an inch or so. Not sure it is worth the complexity and weight. I have had it stick down after a fitting was cracked and air got in the system. Other than that the Reverb has been problem free.

  32. #32
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    If they made a 7" drop I'd have one.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by foot hill View Post
    been wanting one and have the money all saved up, but just cant decide

    1)add @ 500+gms (yes, i do visit ww forum often)
    2)add another cable and lever to bar(jealous of single speed simplicity)
    3) possible failure of dropper (least of my concerns really but still factor)
    OR

    1)get lower for tech stuff,climbing and decending
    2)get even lower for the stuff that really scares me
    3) get alittle higher for the steep & smooth ( on most tech trails i have saddle a little lower than the optimal height for climbing efficiently)

    so i just keep waiting,wondering, reading threads like this

    BTW...Aren Timmel won this years TS100 with a dropper post! actually he smashed the coarse! so, i think i am going to get one!
    .......I think...
    Your facts are in order (though the GD Turbo is something like 500g total, not 500g gain over a fixed post). I just got the Turbo and like you have always run my seat at less than optimal for climbing. Now with the full height/1 inch drop/full drop it's a world of difference. I run my seat all the way up, drop it 1 inch for techy climbs, then drop it for going down. It's a blast. Picked up the Turbo with an extra different height inner post for $180 used btw. Figure out what length and drop you want so you can start browsing the classifieds now, it's tough to find the right used one.
    "...like sex with the trail." - Boe

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    If they made a 7" drop I'd have one.
    Must be my newb status and how much seatpost room there is on my Blur LT2 frame, but I actually wouldn't mind going from the 125mm Reverb to a 100mm post. I couldn't imagine requiring a 170-180mm dropper post.

  35. #35
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    I live in Florida, we have no mountains here.

  36. #36
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    I won't build another bike without one, but I ride really rocky and technical trails.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjaguar View Post
    I live in Florida, we have no mountains here.
    This is the biggest reason to get a dropper, IMO. When you live in a place where you slog your way to the top for a couple hrs, then you can drop your rigid post via QR and enjoy the DH for a long freakin' time.

    When you live in a relatively flat place with punchy climbs...you need to raise and lower all the time. The dropper is excellent for this.
    I get my boards at Lux-RC.com

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by L. Ron Hoover View Post
    If the trails you ride most don't involve any steep downhills, you don't need one. If they involve a long climb followed by a long descent, you don't need one. If you enjoy having the seat all up in your junk when descending steep stuff, you don't need one.

    Our trails have many short, steep ups and downs which makes a dropper post useful. I prefer having the seat low when descending on my trail bike (got used to it riding DH) even though I can manage most stuff with the seat up. It's just more fun with it lower. I use my dropper post dozens of times on a typical ride. YMMV.

    I've been using an AMP since 2009 with no issues so far. Too bad Precision Cycling Components seems to have dropped off the map.
    +1

    It's a huge confidence builder in ledgy areas like where I live. It allows you to get a low center of gravity, yet stay centered over the bike, instead of hanging your ass off the back. That way you maintain a MUCH more athletic position in steep, sketchy areas.

    KS makes a great product, but they are not maintenance free...IMHO.

  39. #39
    AFI
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    Want one, but waiting for the Fox D.O.S.S.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by LGavin View Post
    My KS has a sagging issue and i think even if you have rebuilt it it will happen again and again like every after 4 rides. That's the reason why I am getting rid of it already and might try a REVERB or just a fixed post.
    I have one KS that has been flawless with 9 months of use in the PNW muck.

    I've got another one that I just got and it does the "sagging" thing you refer to. I've contacted Rick at KS and he told me to send it in and he'll fix it. I'm literally doing that today.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    When you live in a relatively flat place with punchy climbs...you need to raise and lower all the time. The dropper is excellent for this.
    Oh yeah, we have a punchy climb. I forgot about it.

  42. #42
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    Dropper posts are great for descending as described already but I find them just as important for cornering and pumping terrain. People get all hung up about the cornering improvements of a lower BB with the post out of the way you can lower your COG 4-5. How many people ride a pump track with a seat up their bum? You cant work the contours and nuances of the trail with the saddle at full height. Adjustable posts are as important as disc brakes and suspension forks for me.

    Gravity Dropper brand posts are simple and dependable, Ive tried others and always come back to the original.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    All of my friends ride them and wonder why I never use it, but I can move around on my bike just fine without it. No problem getting behind the seat during sketchy descent or drops.
    I am always amazed when people say things like this. Moving around just fine needs examination. "Moving around just fine" vs. piloting a bike to it's potential are drastically different. I'd say moving around fine is moving very poorly and not fine at all. I can't figure out why there are so many people who limit themselves to such a huge degree. Getting behind the saddle is great example of just how bad it is to ride with a high saddle. What must one do to get behind a saddle? How about to get back on/above/or in-front of the saddle?Do these movements and timings associated with positioning behind a saddle allow the bike to dictate fore/aft riding position? (rhetorical - they don't)

    I'm not saying someone who rides with a high saddle it is a poor rider, I'm saying someone who does it is riding poorly.

    A really good argument for dropper posts is reduce the number of people riding poorly.
    Try riding a pump track with a high saddle.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endomaniac View Post
    Dropper posts are great for descending as described already but I find them just as important for cornering and pumping terrain. People get all hung up about the cornering improvements of a lower BB with the post out of the way you can lower your COG 4-5. How many people ride a pump track with a seat up their bum? You cant work the contours and nuances of the trail with the saddle at full height. Adjustable posts are as important as disc brakes and suspension forks for me.

    Gravity Dropper brand posts are simple and dependable, Ive tried others and always come back to the original.
    Exactly my point! Only more eloquent.


  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endomaniac View Post
    Dropper posts are great for descending as described already but I find them just as important for cornering and pumping terrain. People get all hung up about the cornering improvements of a lower BB with the post out of the way you can lower your COG 4-5. How many people ride a pump track with a seat up their bum? You cant work the contours and nuances of the trail with the saddle at full height. Adjustable posts are as important as disc brakes and suspension forks for me.

    Gravity Dropper brand posts are simple and dependable, Ive tried others and always come back to the original.
    Am I wrong or couldn't you just loosen your seat QR at the pump track then raise it when you leave? How much is an extra 1/2 to 1 lb placed really high on your bike that requires extra maintenance, extra stuff on your handlebar and extra dollars really worth? More than a $20qr and how much more?

    Since the days of the Repack people have been riding their bikes without remotes. Sure there was the hiterite which worked well cost little and weighed nothing but that went away during the era of all things lighter. Now someone has made a better mousetrap and everyone is scrambling to get them.

    All I hear is how they fail, how they wobble, rock back and forth, how it is hard to get the cable to look good on the cage and how expensive they are and what the next model will be that fixes all these problems. Been hearing that since the first Maverick Speedball came out.

    I have a seat post i bought in 1990, I am still using it, it still works. I lower it by hand at the top of super tech rides because I am not racing and can wait 10 seconds that it takes to get off, adjust my bike and then remount. I can raise it at the bottom because again I am not in a race, sometimes i stop and take pictures after lowering my seat of my riding buddies descending the same trail. If the trail requires numerous climbs and descents I can either leave it a little low (which is fine for climbing and descending and the flats, it won't kill you) or leave it where it was and just get behind the saddle which is still a better location to be than crouched because you COG is more behind the bike not just lower at the center and this helps prevent OTB.

    Anyway try a regular post. See if you don't appreciate the lighter bike and the solid interface.
    Try this: HTFU

  46. #46
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    They're great for descending and pumping...sure. What about flat singletrack...leading to a drop...no descending there, but still an excellent thing to have. I wouldn't do a 4' drop w/ a seatpost up ma'butt.


    axolotl: Why in your opinion do your peers need to ride at max potential all the time? The majority of MTB'ers aren't racing. There's no real hurry. Sure...every wannabe out there is trying to ride like Peaty, but is it all that necessary? Nope. Some people would rather to amaze you at their "moving around" instead of adding a boat anchor to an already portly ride.

    You can't figure out why people "limit themselves to such a degree"? It's because people choose to ride how they want. Droppers aren't for everyone. People with SS rigid 29'ers limit themselves to a degree IMO, but they also give themselves advantages that are more highly valued "to them".

    I know that it's trendy to say we are pushing the envelope all the time...lying to ourselves thinking we're badazz. I'll bet there's some dude out there watching someone like you ride and saying..."I'm amazed at how inefficiently he pumps that tranny"...I could feed that pumptrack to him.

    You don't always have to ride 200%. It's fun to go fast, it's fun to go slow. It's fun to have a dropper and boost some structures and slam down some gnar DH trails. It's also fun to have a 28lb 7x7 that can take a pounding of sorts.

    Everybody has their preference...thank God there are so many needs out there that we can have so many choices becoming readily available to us.



    IMO...$250-$300 for a seatpost is just asinine. $1000 for a set of I9's is total rape. $1200 for a fork is retarded. If I had the money...I'd be pimping a bike with all of the above though.


    The only thing that's holding me back from getting another GD is price. I had one, I loved it. I changed regions that really didn't make use of a $250 post. I sold it so I could drop weight. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat though if they weren't so stinking silly expensive.
    I get my boards at Lux-RC.com

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by nord1899 View Post
    ...I actually wouldn't mind going from the 125mm Reverb to a 100mm post.
    Exactly what I did. Got me a 100mm Reverb for my BLTc and moved the 125mm to the Nomad.
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher View Post
    Am I wrong or couldn't you just loosen your seat QR at the pump track then raise it when you leave? How much is an extra 1/2 to 1 lb placed really high on your bike that requires extra maintenance, extra stuff on your handlebar and extra dollars really worth? More than a $20qr and how much more?

    Since the days of the Repack people have been riding their bikes without remotes. Sure there was the hiterite which worked well cost little and weighed nothing but that went away during the era of all things lighter. Now someone has made a better mousetrap and everyone is scrambling to get them.

    All I hear is how they fail, how they wobble, rock back and forth, how it is hard to get the cable to look good on the cage and how expensive they are and what the next model will be that fixes all these problems. Been hearing that since the first Maverick Speedball came out.

    I have a seat post i bought in 1990, I am still using it, it still works. I lower it by hand at the top of super tech rides because I am not racing and can wait 10 seconds that it takes to get off, adjust my bike and then remount. I can raise it at the bottom because again I am not in a race, sometimes i stop and take pictures after lowering my seat of my riding buddies descending the same trail. If the trail requires numerous climbs and descents I can either leave it a little low (which is fine for climbing and descending and the flats, it won't kill you) or leave it where it was and just get behind the saddle which is still a better location to be than crouched because you COG is more behind the bike not just lower at the center and this helps prevent OTB.

    Anyway try a regular post. See if you don't appreciate the lighter bike and the solid interface.
    Been there, done it. Why don't you try a dropper for a better perspective of what we're talking about and see if all those things you named are things you can live w/ because what a dropper can do for your riding enjoyment? If you truly believe in your logic, you should be back on a full rigid...hey no moving parts that require service...ever!
    Naysayers never apologize. Critics go to their grave thinking everyone else is wrong.
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  49. #49
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    The dropper posts get a big "eh" in my book. I had an AMP 4" dropper post and rode it for a season. I ride in the Boston area that has a lot of technical ups and downs. So you don't want the post roadie high and you don't want it Freeride low. So you end up finding the sweet spot and leaving it there for 90% of your riding. I tried popping it up and down every time I went up and down and I found myself going crazy with how often I had to pop the damn' thing. Then it started to run into issues where it would get stuck down or up and that's when I sold it. It was making me crazy while riding and riding should be the opposite of that.

    I could see it being more useful if you lived in a place with longer ups and downs but even when I went out west I didn't find myself wishing for one. When I knew a climb was coming up I raised the post and when we got to the top I dropped it.

    As far as big hits go if I'm familiar with a drop or a sketchy down I can hit them with my post in normal position. If I come to an unfamiliar feature I always stop and eyeball it anyway so no need for a dropper there.

    I see it all the time in our area. Somebody gets a dropper and raves about how awesome it is. A month or 2 later it gets an eh, it's kinda cool. 6 months later it breaks and then you never see that dude with one again.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    They're great for descending and pumping...sure. What about flat singletrack...leading to a drop...no descending there, but still an excellent thing to have. I wouldn't do a 4' drop w/ a seatpost up ma'butt.


    axolotl: Why in your opinion do your peers need to ride at max potential all the time? The majority of MTB'ers aren't racing. There's no real hurry. Sure...every wannabe out there is trying to ride like Peaty, but is it all that necessary? Nope. Some people would rather to amaze you at their "moving around" instead of adding a boat anchor to an already portly ride.
    I see what you are saying. If you have fun pedaling a bike-then by all means pedal away. I think that riding the "fun stuff" with your seat up is like holding onto the bars with one finger. It is conter-productive and very fun diminishing.
    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    You can't figure out why people "limit themselves to such a degree"? It's because people choose to ride how they want. Droppers aren't for everyone. People with SS rigid 29'ers limit themselves to a degree IMO, but they also give themselves advantages that are more highly valued "to them".
    That is true, droppers aren't for everyone. I was talking more about the belief that riding with a high seat is bad. I was not saying everyone needs a dropper

    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    I know that it's trendy to say we are pushing the envelope all the time...lying to ourselves thinking we're badazz. I'll bet there's some dude out there watching someone like you ride and saying..."I'm amazed at how inefficiently he pumps that tranny"...I could feed that pumptrack to him.
    Yes I'm sure that's true, but they won't say "Look how inefficient he is with that saddle crammed up his ass" cause it'l just be me screwing up the tranny, I won't be limiting myself with my gear
    Quote Originally Posted by chelboed View Post
    ...it's fun to go slow....
    No it's not. That's just stupid

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