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  1. #1
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    Patriotic Passion

    I just saw the Michael Douglas intro to the super bowl. That tied with the anthem made me realize i always get emotional when I see stories of sacrifices made for our country (or your country if not from the US). Does anyone else get emotional when you hear the anthem or images of your countries history. I know we are a young nation, but we have done so much in 200 years. I am a US history nerd. I don't necessarily know a TON, but I LOVE to watch and read about our history.

    Maybe I'm a softy
    My wife is from Ireland, so she does not share the same feelings for the US as myself. She does love the US, but not the same way I do.

    /superbowl

  2. #2
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    I also love our country and appreciate the sacrifices that so many have made so we can
    enjoy all that we have. I get a feeling of pride and thankfullness every time I see and
    hear a military jet fly over especially when it is a low elevation pass. God bless the USA.

  3. #3
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    i am proud of everyone who has served or is acctivly serving. I love the opportunity that we have here in america and i love the freedom we enjoy but i have always hated the phrase "God bless America" it needs to be changed to "God bless everyone". I dont want to turn this into a turd storm but im wondering what others think.
    count your blessings

  4. #4
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    +1 on all the above (except the god bless everyone comment). If that's the case, why don't we just open our borders to the whole world, while were at it. But I can't help feel that us Americans have gotten a little lost lately and we need to find our way back.

  5. #5
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    Let the **** storm rain down me

    I did not watch the intro or any thing, but I just had to post this because I think that there needs to be some of the other side. First let me say this the I really love the land that we live in. But as far as our policies as a country, we are a pile of ****, and for the most part only making life worse for people in are own country and especially the ones we have invaded and continue to occupy. We do not support democracy in other countries and in fact we do the opposite.

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    after 35 years the Marine Corps Hymn still gets me misty. but we are the few, the proud!!!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn
    +1 on all the above (except the god bless everyone comment). If that's the case, why don't we just open our borders to the whole world, while were at it. But I can't help feel that us Americans have gotten a little lost lately and we need to find our way back.
    are you saying God is American? If i was a non American looking in on the things we do i would not think we are doing them under God. we are becoming a nation of whiney consumers. and as far as immigration goes id say bring in anyone who is willing to work and do the jobs others dont want.
    This will probably come across as me looking unpatriotic but i assure you i am not. I love what America is meant to be. the land of the free is a beautiful thought but we need to work to keep it free( that doesnt always mean fight).
    count your blessings

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn
    +1 on all the above (except the god bless everyone comment). If that's the case, why don't we just open our borders to the whole world, while were at it.
    For one, that is a logical fallacy. You're making a big leap from saying "God bless everyone" to "opening our borders to the whole world."

    Secondly, it is an absolutely un-Christian thing to say. Who are you to exclude the rest of the world from your god's blessings? How un-Christ-like.

    Thirdly, the isolationism you advocate leads nowhere good.

    I'm not trying to be rude, but I really don't agree with what you're saying.

  9. #9
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    As a ret MSgt in the USAF, I'd just like to thank you all for your sincere thoughts.

    Couldn't agree with Wizzer more. If there's a God, and it's at all a rational intelligent being, it hasn't forsaken the rest of the world. Most people in most places are good kind people trying to lead good kind simple lives. Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Swaziland, Tibet, India... Most human beings are good kind people that have all the same qualities we admire in ourselves. ...and as well, have a lot of those same shortcomings that keep us arguing on into the night with our neighbors across the political, religious, social, & economic spectrum. People are people, no matter where you go.

    When they say freedom isn't free, it's not something to be proud of. It shouldn't be an excuse to justify doing whatever the hell we want, but an unfortunate admittance that we indeed do some pretty awful things in the name of our admittedly limited freedom. Once you raise your sights a little, you see how the people in this world sacrifice so that we can have it as nice as we do. 5% of the people don't hold on to 95% of the worlds money by being inherently good and selfless people as their chosen lord decreed.

    If there's a god, may it be blessing everyone, cause reality certainly isn't.
    Ride on, Anthony.

  10. #10
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    I love the USA but please forgive us world on our terrible halftime show. I know everyone expected better, if only my hoover sucked as much.

  11. #11
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    I've become deeply disillusioned with America lately. A few weeks ago my Econ teacher said that Obama had decided a mandatory two years' service to the country for everyone upon their 18th birthday. My first thought wasn't even whether he was telling the truth, it was, "I'm leaving, then."

    Democracy and everything else that America stands for are great things. But they aren't so great when we try to shove all those ideals down the throats of other countries, especially places like Egypt and the rest of the Middle East, where we clearly don't belong and the locals there clearly don't like Western culture. To me that just reeks of hypocrisy.

    Living in America can be a great thing, but right now I am downright ashamed to be an American.
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by erik1245
    I've become deeply disillusioned with America lately. A few weeks ago my Econ teacher said that Obama had decided a mandatory two years' service to the country for everyone upon their 18th birthday. My first thought wasn't even whether he was telling the truth, it was, "I'm leaving, then."

    Democracy and everything else that America stands for are great things. But they aren't so great when we try to shove all those ideals down the throats of other countries, especially places like Egypt and the rest of the Middle East, where we clearly don't belong and the locals there clearly don't like Western culture. To me that just reeks of hypocrisy.

    Living in America can be a great thing, but right now I am downright ashamed to be an American.
    You're not the only one becoming disillusioned.

    What do you mean by "mandatory two years' service to the country?"

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nenbran
    You're not the only one becoming disillusioned.

    What do you mean by "mandatory two years' service to the country?"
    Obviously my teacher was joking, but he said it was something along the lines of serving in the Armed Forces or Americorps, something like that.
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by erik1245
    Obviously my teacher was joking, but he said it was something along the lines of serving in the Armed Forces or Americorps, something like that.
    Ah, ok. I didn't catch the sarcasm.

    Although, mandatory service might just make us a more humble people. Food for thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nenbran
    Ah, ok. I didn't catch the sarcasm.

    Although, mandatory service might just make us a more humble people. Food for thought.
    I was thinking that too, but I'm against it for the sole reason that there's so many troublesome logistics, and bipartisanship prevents our country from ever making any damn decisions within a reasonable timeframe.
    Who pays for living during those two years? The government? Why don't they pay up to China first?
    Do we get a choice for that service? Or is it like the draft, you go there, you go here, and you go there?
    Is it entirely mandatory, or are there valid reasons for not doing it?
    Etc, etc....
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by erik1245
    I was thinking that too, but I'm against it for the sole reason that there's so many troublesome logistics, and bipartisanship prevents our country from ever making any damn decisions within a reasonable timeframe.
    Who pays for living during those two years? The government? Why don't they pay up to China first?
    Do we get a choice for that service? Or is it like the draft, you go there, you go here, and you go there?
    Is it entirely mandatory, or are there valid reasons for not doing it?
    Etc, etc....
    Yeah, you're totally right. I think it's a good idea in theory, but it'd be a nightmare in practice. Governmental inefficiency, along with the immense cost of doing such a thing, would prevent it from ever happening. Plus, we are not a country that is constantly fighting for our very existence, like Israel. Therefore, it's unnecessary to instate mandatory service.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nenbran
    For one, that is a logical fallacy. You're making a big leap from saying "God bless everyone" to "opening our borders to the whole world."

    Secondly, it is an absolutely un-Christian thing to say. Who are you to exclude the rest of the world from your god's blessings? How un-Christ-like.
    .......

    Where did he say anything about being Christian? (whether or not he is in actuality)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    Where did he say anything about being Christian? (whether or not he is in actuality)
    Did he not imply it? I could have misinterpreted his statement, but from where I stand, it seems that he's implying that we ask God (or whatever) to "bless" only us. Then he makes the leap to say that if we as God to "bless" everyone, we may as well open our borders. That leap makes absolutely no logical sense.

    And if he meant it in an Atheistic sense, that illogical leap is still present.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider
    I love the USA but please forgive us world on our terrible halftime show. I know everyone expected better, if only my hoover sucked as much.

    Lucky for us barely anyone outside the US watches American football....

  20. #20
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    Oh yea. Just looked up that particularly horrendous National Anthem on youtube.

    Gotta say, it always seemed strange to force people to do that at beginning of sporting events anyway. Not a big fan of forced nationalism to begin with tho.

    ...but that was a butcher job if there ever was one. From the vocal masturbation to hacking out entire lines, to... nice flyover with the roof closed... yikes.
    Ride on, Anthony.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nenbran
    Did he not imply it? I could have misinterpreted his statement, but from where I stand, it seems that he's implying that we ask God (or whatever) to "bless" only us. Then he makes the leap to say that if we as God to "bless" everyone, we may as well open our borders. That leap makes absolutely no logical sense.

    And if he meant it in an Atheistic sense, that illogical leap is still present.

    I'm pretty sure he meant that asking (whatever)God(means) to "bless everyone" instead of simply blessing America would be a step toward global citizenship and away from nationality.

    Assuming that a belief in "God" means someone is Christian is ignoring the fact that every religion in the world believes in God, they just define it differently than Christians do, like the USA's Deist forefathers did.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    I'm pretty sure he meant that asking (whatever)God(means) to "bless everyone" instead of simply blessing America would be a step toward global citizenship and away from nationality.

    Assuming that a belief in "God" means someone is Christian is ignoring the fact that every religion in the world believes in God, they just define it differently than Christians do, like the USA's Deist forefathers did.
    I concede to both of your points.

    But I don't agree at all with the idea that stepping towards global citizenship is a bad thing. That's just me.

    And yes, I am fully aware that there is more than one religion present in this world. Hence why I left clues like "your God" etc. It's become something of a cultural norm, though, for it to be mainly Christians who use the word God. At least in my experience. Maybe I should get out more. And to say that "every religion in the world believes in God" is to grossly oversimplify other religions.

    So...I half concede to your points. Sue me.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by p.doering
    As a ret MSgt in the USAF, I'd just like to thank you all for your sincere thoughts.

    Couldn't agree with Wizzer more. If there's a God, and it's at all a rational intelligent being, it hasn't forsaken the rest of the world. Most people in most places are good kind people trying to lead good kind simple lives. Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Swaziland, Tibet, India... Most human beings are good kind people that have all the same qualities we admire in ourselves. ...and as well, have a lot of those same shortcomings that keep us arguing on into the night with our neighbors across the political, religious, social, & economic spectrum. People are people, no matter where you go.

    When they say freedom isn't free, it's not something to be proud of. It shouldn't be an excuse to justify doing whatever the hell we want, but an unfortunate admittance that we indeed do some pretty awful things in the name of our admittedly limited freedom. Once you raise your sights a little, you see how the people in this world sacrifice so that we can have it as nice as we do. 5% of the people don't hold on to 95% of the worlds money by being inherently good and selfless people as their chosen lord decreed.

    If there's a god, may it be blessing everyone, cause reality certainly isn't.
    Very well put indeed. Strange that few if any seem to have taken what you have said and replied. That seems to be the case all too often where someone puts something sensible and rational in here and it is mostly ignored. Is this because things like this make people uncomfortable and they would rather shy away?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nenbran
    I concede to both of your points.

    But I don't agree at all with the idea that stepping towards global citizenship is a bad thing. That's just me.

    And yes, I am fully aware that there is more than one religion present in this world. Hence why I left clues like "your God" etc. It's become something of a cultural norm, though, for it to be mainly Christians who use the word God. At least in my experience. Maybe I should get out more. And to say that "every religion in the world believes in God" is to grossly oversimplify other religions.

    So...I half concede to your points. Sue me.

    Hmmmm..... Are you wealthy?


    Every religion in the world does believe in God. It's a fact, not an oversimplification. It's not more an oversimplification than saying Christians believe in God.

    Jews say God(among other terms, most of which Christians use as well)
    Muslims say God(Allah is simply God in Arabic)
    Even polytheists say God when referring to one of theirs.
    I'm betting others do as well.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

    I wasn't(and still am not) trying to start anything, just responding.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    Hmmmm..... Are you wealthy?


    Every religion in the world does believe in God. It's a fact, not an oversimplification. It's not more an oversimplification than saying Christians believe in God.

    Jews say God(among other terms, most of which Christians use as well)
    Muslims say God(Allah is simply God in Arabic)
    Even polytheists say God when referring to one of theirs.
    I'm betting others do as well.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

    I wasn't(and still am not) trying to start anything, just responding.
    Am I wealthy? First, one must define wealth. I would say that I am wealthy enough to live comfortably, yet not wealthy enough to not worry about money. I worry about money all the time. I come from a middle class family. The only way I've been able to get through college while affording a nice bike is by getting and maintaining the grades to get a full ride scholarship. Otherwise, I wouldn't be on this site, as I wouldn't have a bike. Why do you ask?

    I never said that only Christians believe in God. I just said that in my experience, I have found that it is mainly Christians who use the term God. Though I do know Jews who do as well. Sadly, I haven't discussed religion with any Muslims, though that is something I have always desired to do.

    And again, I must disagree that every religion believes in God. Are you saying that there is one God and all religions define that god differently? Or are you saying that each religion has its own god (or gods)? Some context would help. And then you discount Atheists and Agnostics.

    I know you're not trying to start anything. Nor am I. This is simply a debate. No hurt feelings should come out of a debate if both parties have some semblance of maturity. So we're ok here.

  26. #26
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    back to the original topic.

    Yes, I get choked up. I love my country and everything it stands for.

    Are we perfect? No. I would much rather be imperfect than how some countries believe they are perfect.


    Watch this video. I went to school with the guy who lost his leg. I have not seen him in about 13 years or so. I bought my wife's engagement ring and wedding band from his Dad's Jewelry store, that was the last time I saw him. I look forward to the day I see him and can shake his hand and tell him "THANK YOU"


    http://www.cmt.com/videos/joe-nichol...pe-im-in.jhtml
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nenbran
    Am I wealthy? First, one must define wealth. I would say that I am wealthy enough to live comfortably, yet not wealthy enough to not worry about money. I worry about money all the time. I come from a middle class family. The only way I've been able to get through college while affording a nice bike is by getting and maintaining the grades to get a full ride scholarship. Otherwise, I wouldn't be on this site, as I wouldn't have a bike. Why do you ask?
    Because I wanted to know wether it was worth taking your suggestion to sue you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nenbran
    I never said that only Christians believe in God. I just said that in my experience, I have found that it is mainly Christians who use the term God. Though I do know Jews who do as well. Sadly, I haven't discussed religion with any Muslims, though that is something I have always desired to do.

    And again, I must disagree that every religion believes in God. Are you saying that there is one God and all religions define that god differently? Or are you saying that each religion has its own god (or gods)? Some context would help. And then you discount Atheists and Agnostics.

    I know you're not trying to start anything. Nor am I. This is simply a debate. No hurt feelings should come out of a debate if both parties have some semblance of maturity. So we're ok here.

    It's not that they all believe in your definition of God, but they do believe in a god. So, each religion has its own god, and most of them refer to that god(s) as God in their language in normal conversation. It might be the same God at it's core, it might be one of many Gods, or it might be a figment of people's collective imagination. I have no idea.

    A lot of people would argue that Atheism and Agnosticism are not religions. Personally, as a formerly-Atheist Agnostic, I think that Atheists simply refer to their God as science, logic, etc.

    I'll be away from regular computer access till the weekend, so I might not respond.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    Because I wanted to know wether it was worth taking your suggestion to sue you.




    It's not that they all believe in your definition of God, but they do believe in a god. So, each religion has its own god, and most of them refer to that god(s) as God in their language in normal conversation. It might be the same God at it's core, it might be one of many Gods, or it might be a figment of people's collective imagination. I have no idea.

    A lot of people would argue that Atheism and Agnosticism are not religions. Personally, as a formerly-Atheist Agnostic, I think that Atheists simply refer to their God as science, logic, etc.

    I'll be away from regular computer access till the weekend, so I might not respond.
    Ah.

    Ok, your context helps a whole lot. I now understand what you mean. And I agree with you (to a point). I'm fine thinking that each religion has its own god. I don't think there is just one god. So yeah, I agree.

    A lot of people try to make Atheism and Agnosticism out to be not-religious. I think that's wrong. To me, a religion is simply a facet of philosophy. Nothing more. Being an Agnostic (borderline Atheist) myself, I'd have to agree that my "gods" are science, logic, knowledge, etc.

    Have a good week.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean salach
    Every religion in the world does believe in God. It's a fact, not an oversimplification. I
    Taoism

    they do not pray as Christians do; there is no God to hear the prayers or to act upon them. They seek answers to life's problems through inner meditation and outer observation.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TR
    Taoism

  31. #31
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    I'll only add to this dead thread that there are plenty of sects of religions that do not advocate gods, but are more practical ethical systems by which to conduct ones life.

    I have old friends whose religion is secular humanist judaism. Their Rabbi of 30 years was a gay atheist. Temple services range from philosophical debates to community support meetings. No gods necessary.

    But the atheistic-leaning sects, unitarianism under christianity, etc, aren't even scratching the surface, as they're still theistic belief systems. Then there's Deists & Pantheists... Among the more famous, read Einstein, Spinoza, Jefferson, Paine, & Locke, & you'll have some very confused ideas about just what sort of god they were talking about, til you discover the vast differences between the "god" concepts of Theists, Deists, Pantheists, and... (I hate to even say it, but) Atheists (since it's merely a blanket term for anyone left over who doesn't subscribe to one of those).

    And that's just in the US.

    ...and that's just in the West. Multiply and multiply by orders of magnitude.

    Everyone's atheist to the other million or so belief systems that used to be accepted as fact that have fallen out of favor in their familial or geographic location. The Abrahamic faiths are attempting to mellow after being spread at the point of the sword over a couple thousand years, but are no less or more silly than the next guys fuzzy hat. Thomas Jefferson called it when he said it was all misguided sun-worship, and he didn't even have the benefit of all the archaeology tracing it back to Akehnaten like we have now.
    -Marooned in La Jolla.

  32. #32
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    Buddhists. I don't think they believe in a god. Nor, possibly, Scientologists. But Xenu knows what those loons believe in.

  33. #33
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    Don't piss Xenu off, or you may end up in a volcano...

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