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  1. #1
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    NSA Wiretapping and more...

    Are we ready to start giving some credibility to some 'conspiracy theorists'?

    It really sucks when some people are trying to blow a whistle - and that whistle is dismissed.

    I, myself, have been dismissed to many conspiracies - one one topic was about Fusion Centers.
    Many thought nothing of it mostly - 'yeah, so what', 'huh?', 'get more foil'.


    As I'm sure you know now, the gov't of the US has been illegally (they say it's legal, the Constitution says it's not) scooping data transmissions - cell phone, facebook, yahoo, etc

    When will anyone start to give a fcuk to what 'nutjobs' are warning about??
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  2. #2
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    here's an eye-opening post on what may be building in US
    via reddit

    quote=617191 6 hours ago*

    I live in a country generally assumed to be a dictatorship. One of the Arab spring countries. I have lived through curfews and have seen the outcomes of the sort of surveillance now being revealed in the US. People here talking about curfews aren't realizing what that actually FEELS like. It isn't about having to go inside, and the practicality of that. It's about creating the feeling that everyone, everything is watching. A few points:

    1) the purpose of this surveillance from the governments point of view is to control enemies of the state. Not terrorists. People who are coalescing around ideas that would destabilize the status quo. These could be religious ideas. These could be groups like anon who are too good with tech for the governments liking. It makes it very easy to know who these people are. It also makes it very simple to control these people.

    Lets say you are a college student and you get in with some people who want to stop farming practices that hurt animals. So you make a plan and go to protest these practices. You get there, and wow, the protest is huge. You never expected this, you were just goofing off. Well now everyone who was there is suspect. Even though you technically had the right to protest, you're now considered a dangerous person.

    With this tech in place, the government doesn't have to put you in jail. They can do something more sinister. They can just email you a sexy picture you took with a girlfriend. Or they can email you a note saying that they can prove your dad is cheating on his taxes. Or they can threaten to get your dad fired. All you have to do, the email says, is help them catch your friends in the group. You have to report back every week, or you dad might lose his job. So you do. You turn in your friends and even though they try to keep meetings off grid, you're reporting on them to protect your dad.

    2) Let's say number one goes on. The country is a weird place now. Really weird. Pretty soon, a movement springs up like occupy, except its bigger this time. People are really serious, and they are saying they want a government without this power. I guess people are realizing that it is a serious deal. You see on the news that tear gas was fired. Your friend calls you, frantic. They're shooting people. Oh my god. you never signed up for this. You say, **** it. My dad might lose his job but I won't be responsible for anyone dying. That's going too far. You refuse to report anymore. You just stop going to meetings. You stay at home, and try not to watch the news. Three days later, police come to your door and arrest you. They confiscate your computer and phones, and they beat you up a bit. No one can help you so they all just sit quietly. They know if they say anything they're next. This happened in the country I live in. It is not a joke.

    3) Its hard to say how long you were in there. What you saw was horrible. Most of the time, you only heard screams. People begging to be killed. Noises you've never heard before. You, you were lucky. You got kicked every day when they threw your moldy food at you, but no one shocked you. No one used sexual violence on you, at least that you remember. There were some times they gave you pills, and you can't say for sure what happened then. To be honest, sometimes the pills were the best part of your day, because at least then you didn't feel anything. You have scars on you from the way you were treated. You learn in prison that torture is now common. But everyone who uploads videos or pictures of this torture is labeled a leaker. Its considered a threat to national security. Pretty soon, a cut you got on your leg is looking really bad. You think it's infected. There were no doctors in prison, and it was so overcrowded, who knows what got in the cut. You go to the doctor, but he refuses to see you. He knows if he does the government can see the records that he treated you. Even you calling his office prompts a visit from the local police.

    You decide to go home and see your parents. Maybe they can help. This leg is getting really bad. You get to their house. They aren't home. You can't reach them no matter how hard you try. A neighbor pulls you aside, and he quickly tells you they were arrested three weeks ago and haven't been seen since. You vaguely remember mentioning to them on the phone you were going to that protest. Even your little brother isn't there.

    4) Is this even really happening? You look at the news. Sports scores. Celebrity news. It's like nothing is wrong. What the hell is going on? A stranger smirks at you reading the paper. You lose it. You shout at him "**** you dude what are you laughing at can't you see I've got a ****ing wound on my leg?"

    "Sorry," he says. "I just didn't know anyone read the news anymore." There haven't been any real journalists for months. They're all in jail.

    Everyone walking around is scared. They can't talk to anyone else because they don't know who is reporting for the government. Hell, at one time YOU were reporting for the government. Maybe they just want their kid to get through school. Maybe they want to keep their job. Maybe they're sick and want to be able to visit the doctor. It's always a simple reason. Good people always do bad things for simple reasons.

    You want to protest. You want your family back. You need help for your leg. This is way beyond anything you ever wanted. It started because you just wanted to see fair treatment in farms. Now you're basically considered a terrorist, and everyone around you might be reporting on you. You definitely can't use a phone or email. You can't get a job. You can't even trust people face to face anymore. On every corner, there are people with guns. They are as scared as you are. They just don't want to lose their jobs. They don't want to be labeled as traitors.

    This all happened in the country where I live.

    You want to know why revolutions happen? Because little by little by little things get worse and worse. But this thing that is happening now is big. This is the key ingredient. This allows them to know everything they need to know to accomplish the above. The fact that they are doing it is proof that they are the sort of people who might use it in the way I described. In the country I live in, they also claimed it was for the safety of the people. Same in Soviet Russia. Same in East Germany. In fact, that is always the excuse that is used to surveil everyone. But it has never ONCE proven to be the reality.

    Maybe Obama won't do it. Maybe the next guy won't, or the one after him. Maybe this story isn't about you. Maybe it happens 10 or 20 years from now, when a big war is happening, or after another big attack. Maybe it's about your daughter or your son. We just don't know yet. But what we do know is that right now, in this moment we have a choice. Are we okay with this, or not? Do we want this power to exist, or not?

    You know for me, the reason I'm upset is that I grew up in school saying the pledge of allegiance. I was taught that the United States meant "liberty and justice for all." You get older, you learn that in this country we define that phrase based on the constitution. That's what tells us what liberty is and what justice is. Well, the government just violated that ideal. So if they aren't standing for liberty and justice anymore, what are they standing for? Safety?

    Ask yourself a question. In the story I told above, does anyone sound safe?

    I didn't make anything up. These things happened to people I know. We used to think it couldn't happen in America. But guess what? It's starting to happen.

    I actually get really upset when people say "I don't have anything to hide. Let them read everything." People saying that have no idea what they are bringing down on their own heads. They are naive, and we need to listen to people in other countries who are clearly telling us that this is a horrible horrible sign and it is time to stand up and say no.
    /quote
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  3. #3
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    here's a timeline from EFF, though (of course) it is far more extensive than this simple graph

    https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  4. #4
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    All I want to say is the first person to turn this into a Bush vs. Obama thing or a Left vs. Right thing is a rotten egged d-bag.

    Oh, and Highdell, there's been a number of conspiracy theories coming through the OC. Some are crazy, some not so much. This one, not so much. But I'm pretty sure everybody in here knew, or at least was pretty sure, the government was watching in on us. The only thing that baffles me is why the American public doesn't/didn't/don't care. Are we that afraid of terrorists?

  5. #5
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    NSA Wiretapping and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    The only thing that baffles me is why the American public doesn't/didn't/don't care. Are we that afraid of terrorists?
    We have been taught to be that afraid of terrorists. After 9-11 the government told us that terrorists were behind every shadow.

    And I still don't think the American populace really cares. There is no big uproar except in the media and a few libertarians.


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  6. #6
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    ^^^ And with the Patriot (hahah wtf) Act - We are ALL, potential terrorists - and therefore subject to prosecution outside of Due Process.

    Have too much food? Terrorist
    I shlt you not non-believers - look it up.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    We have been taught to be that afraid of terrorists. After 9-11 the government told us that terrorists were behind every shadow.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    True dat. But the American people also trained politicians to believe that attacks on their watch would be equated to guilt by association/malice/malfeasance. Whatever one might believe about attempts to control, one can't dismiss that these politicians ore more afraid of an attack on their watch than anything else.
    Last edited by Slow Danger; 06-07-2013 at 11:25 PM.

  8. #8
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    mad as hell
    <iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/orHaVIJ581s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  9. #9
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    ^^ Good vid
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  10. #10
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    The web is awash with articles like the following, which covers ground of our first few posts here:

    America the passive - Salon.com

    Strangely, one guy I admire a great deal, David Simon, writer/creator of the HBO television series The Wire, doesn't think wiretapping is such a big deal. If you've seen the television series, it's about tapping phones to get info. on drug dealers. Simon claims that the government is so buried in work, like the cops on the tv show, that there's little or no chance that they even look at a small fraction of the phone/online interaction that actually includes illegal activity. I think he's wrong, but interested folks should read about it:

    David Simon: NSA intercepts with PRISM and other programs not a big deal.
    Last edited by Slow Danger; 06-08-2013 at 11:43 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    While I have been historically a republican-libertarian and a Christian, here is a video by a liberal leaning atheist which sums it up well:

    Warning NSFW, unless you work for yourself:

    Impeach Obama - YouTube
    One has to assume posting this particular video link, out of all the potential links floating about the net, is an attempt at humor. And it is pretty funny. The link should be called "Trekkie in a batman t-shirt rants about freedom".

  12. #12
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    There's no easy answers. Is privacy more important than safety? Is the constitution still relevant in modern times? Is our constitutional republic still working as it should? Woking at all? Working for who?
    A few things seem clear to me
    -with more and more people competing over the same resources it doesn't end well
    -our form of government that was/is supposed to serve us is at a tipping point
    -it must/will get worse before people band together once again, in an attempt to make a change for the better.
    If anyone thinks surveillance by OUR government of the general public started after or because of 9/11, or that this latest nsa bs isn't just the tip of the iceberg, or if a system that's designed to feed itself isn't doing just that, I would question your sanity.
    The fact is that big money and power has controlled the world since there was money and power. We, America, started a revolution and a new government to escape control and greed, and here we are again.

    Oh, and it's not "wiretapping", it's metadata, yeah right.
    Last edited by theMeat; 06-08-2013 at 05:33 AM.
    Round and round we go

  13. #13
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    Nothing new here, our gubmint has trampled our civil liberties for generations. I just find highly implausible that all these abuses that are being brought to light lately are localized anomalies that the administration has no knowledge of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Nothing new here, our gubmint has trampled our civil liberties for generations. I just find highly implausible that all these abuses that are being brought to light lately are localized anomalies that the administration has no knowledge of.
    It does seem to be by design.



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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    ^^^ And with the Patriot (hahah wtf) Act - We are ALL, potential terrorists - and therefore subject to prosecution outside of Due Process.

    The Patriot Act was/is a bit different. The Patriot Act focused on communication from the states to overseas areas of concern to combat terrorism. This however is much different. This is targeting US civilians for anything they feel they want to find out. It's a bit scary and unerving if you ask me.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  16. #16
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    Bottom Line: Liberties within Media & their Media informants versus Government function -- Bank on it. Much too easy to assume the easy-read version.
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  17. #17
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    The Patriot Act is a farse, the name alone should tell you that. If that's what we do know about it's troubling to think of what we don't.
    Just a few short years ago if you brought up Project Echelon you were dismissed as a foil wearing freak.
    Round and round we go

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    The Patriot Act is a farse, the name alone should tell you that. If that's what we do know about it's troubling to think of what we don't.
    Just a few short years ago if you brought up Project Echelon you were dismissed as a foil wearing freak.
    Having had to search the Internet to learn of ECHELON, these are all part of the infrastructure of Internet Society security. Not much more than an enormous Voting Computer looking for a lever that's been pulled.
    Going and introducing the concept into conversation is a non-issue; anyone who would would certainly display some type of dissatisfaction with their immediate surroundings, clue-in to a lack of attention upon something or being in a conditioned-state.

    For example look at Highdelll over here...
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


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    Oh god! I opened this link!!!! are they watching me now too!!??

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

    Its ok, our own government was founded with the understanding that we are allowed to legally alter or abolish it.

    Go ahead, ill watch.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    Having had to search the Internet to learn of ECHELON, these are all part of the infrastructure of Internet Society security. Not much more than an enormous Voting Computer looking for a lever that's been pulled.
    Going and introducing the concept into conversation is a non-issue; anyone who would would certainly display some type of dissatisfaction with their immediate surroundings, clue-in to a lack of attention upon something or being in a conditioned-state.

    For example look at Highdelll over here...
    My point was only that a few years ago that it was dismissed as conspiracy theory. Most people would quote the constitution and/or be convinced that their gov wouldn't do such a thing, especially in secret. Now it's a matter of fact to the point were it's considered no big deal, "not much more than" a what?
    Like frogs slowly warming upon the stove.
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRingGrinder View Post
    Go ahead, ill watch.
    I was kind of hoping for a bit more active participation, as change is effected.

    The problem is, it has been altered ... See my previous
    IMHO, it's become a Limited Republic in name only.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRingGrinder View Post
    Oh god! I opened this link!!!! are they watching me now too!!??

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

    Its ok, our own government was founded with the understanding that we are allowed to legally alter or abolish it.

    Go ahead, ill watch.



    Within the next year there will be people demonstrating in the streets. The reports of the last couple of weeks are but the tip of the iceberg, much more to come.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    My point was only that a few years ago that it was dismissed as conspiracy theory. Most people would quote the constitution and/or be convinced that their gov wouldn't do such a thing, especially in secret. Now it's a matter of fact to the point were it's considered no big deal, "not much more than" a what?
    Like frogs slowly warming upon the stove.
    Oh, I had gotten your grasp - it is just the sheer elementary of how this has come to be a topic these past few days. The News Media. There is so much compartmentalization they do and choose to do that it is impossible not to be surprised the FBI or NSA has been doing estimates. In fact the very Constitutional Rights afforded to each of us and all of us also maintain the ever-churning Media Machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    I was kind of hoping for a bit more active participation, as change is effected.
    Politicians are corrupt. Federal laws are mires of red tape requiring years of law school to navigate. Funding of political campaigns by big money companies ensure the stupid rich remain stupid rich. Hell, i read that the united states spends more than double what the drug lords make in our "war on drugs". With the world standard of currency going away from the american dollar, our practice of printing more money to pay our debts will no longer work. There is a lota jacked stuff going on and YES, its going to get worse. I do not have my head buried in the ground oblivious to the corruption and blind stupidity of the way our government is being run.

    But...

    My family and i are alive and well. I do not fear for my loved one's lives on a daily basis. We do not need to check in with each other to make sure we made it through another day.

    The very fact that this thread exists proves that we still hold on to liberty. Conservative and liberal news media exists. Conspiracy theories are published daily and the authors are not hauled off to prison. I can give voice to government criticism in a public place with out fearing for my loved one's safety.

    I can drink, fvck, surf, and ride my bike. I can watch movies, read books, and go to sporting events. Sure my life would be better if i was filthy rich, but overall i am happy and cant think of any where else in the world i would rather live.

    When my life liberty and pursuit of happiness are being affected, i will raise my voice. As the government crosses that line more and more people will raise their voices. Change will come eventually, but like the serenity prayer preaches... In the meantime i will accept the things i can not change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Time to get busy then!
    When.

    Key word.

  26. #26
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    Therein lies the lack of motivation. Until something or things personally effect enough people drastically enough, nothing will get done. IME there's far more that'r reactionary, too few who are visionary for it to go down any other way.
    Round and round we go

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    Name:  300px-Twinki_the_kid.jpg
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Size:  12.2 KB

    Twinkie had to learn the Lasso.

    Key Word.

    The.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


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    LOL


    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Haint again.

  29. #29
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    Good watch/listen
    <iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/B71_u0JVtyM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  30. #30
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    Not possible, there is no bilderberg. That's conspiracy talk.
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Within the next year there will be people demonstrating in the streets. The reports of the last couple of weeks are but the tip of the iceberg, much more to come.
    It's about time people woke up to reality.

    Turn it up

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigringgrinder View Post
    politicians are corrupt. Federal laws are mires of red tape requiring years of law school to navigate. Funding of political campaigns by big money companies ensure the stupid rich remain stupid rich. Hell, i read that the united states spends more than double what the drug lords make in our "war on drugs". With the world standard of currency going away from the american dollar, our practice of printing more money to pay our debts will no longer work. There is a lota jacked stuff going on and yes, its going to get worse. I do not have my head buried in the ground oblivious to the corruption and blind stupidity of the way our government is being run.

    But...

    My family and i are alive and well. I do not fear for my loved one's lives on a daily basis. We do not need to check in with each other to make sure we made it through another day.

    The very fact that this thread exists proves that we still hold on to liberty. Conservative and liberal news media exists. Conspiracy theories are published daily and the authors are not hauled off to prison. I can give voice to government criticism in a public place with out fearing for my loved one's safety.

    I can drink, fvck, surf, and ride my bike. I can watch movies, read books, and go to sporting events. Sure my life would be better if i was filthy rich, but overall i am happy and cant think of any where else in the world i would rather live.

    When my life liberty and pursuit of happiness are being affected, i will raise my voice. As the government crosses that line more and more people will raise their voices. Change will come eventually, but like the serenity prayer preaches... In the meantime i will accept the things i can not change.
    i will not comply !



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    Thread meet toilet. Toilet, this is thread.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    Are we ready to start giving some credibility to some 'conspiracy theorists'?

    It really sucks when some people are trying to blow a whistle - and that whistle is dismissed.

    I, myself, have been dismissed to many conspiracies - one one topic was about Fusion Centers.
    Many thought nothing of it mostly - 'yeah, so what', 'huh?', 'get more foil'.


    As I'm sure you know now, the gov't of the US has been illegally (they say it's legal, the Constitution says it's not) scooping data transmissions - cell phone, facebook, yahoo, etc

    When will anyone start to give a fcuk to what 'nutjobs' are warning about??
    Even since the birth of the internet the spying has been going on, but back then they did not have the capacity to monitor everything due to technological constraints. I'd guess for the last 10 years or so fukking everything has been recorded, monitored, saved, archived, datamined, sorted and whatever more crap they could possibly do with the data. I mean phone/internet everything, all electronic communication.

    I'm not at all surprised. Only now in the last recent years has there been hardware powerful enough to do this, and an easy enough system to tap into, where everything is more or less in plaintext, and where you can setup shop right where the action is. If something is technically possible you can bet your ass some fukker is already doing it, illegal or not. thats the way shit works.

    And now its time for phase 2, analyzing peoples behaviour and sending them to whereever the **** they send people that has different opinoins than the government sanctioned stance. Oh yeah Gulag, thats what its called. Only a matter of time now, and since our elected politicians are in on it I'm guessing it will only escalate. In Gulag no one can hear you scream.
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    What exactly do we all have to hide? Me, nothing, so let them look. Doesn't change my life in any way whatsoever.

    Who exactly can you trust these days? Absolutely nobody!!! There are registered sex offenders living on my street in both directions. The guy living behind me will rob a bank tomorrow and the guy next to him will start a 20K acre forest fire the day after tomorrow. These are not thoughts of paranoia, these are facts. So, let them look. If it stops the next attack, I'm all for it. In fact, join them! You want job security, nothing is as secure as a Gov't job.

    It's a fvcked up world and there's nothing you can do about it... and it's gonna get worse.

    So, deal with it. Get livin' or get dead.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Thread meet toilet. Toilet, this is thread.
    Wanna express this with meaning, or are you afraid to express your true self ?

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    Re: NSA Wiretapping and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    What exactly do we all have to hide? Me, nothing, so let them look. Doesn't change my life in any way whatsoever.
    Here is how one of my friends responded to the "I have nothing to hide" argument.

    " Let's break it down, shall we? That statement is basically a false dichotomy - the same kind of conundrum as "you're either with us or against us." It presents a false choice: you are either guilty of something and therefore have a reason to hide it, or you are not guilty of anything and therefore have no reason to hide anything. It is based on the (false) premise that privacy's sole purpose is to conceal wrongdoing, and it excludes the possibility that someone may be innocent of any wrongdoing buy may still want to conceal their activities. Why? Because something is embarrassing, but not wrong. Something may be deeply personal. Someone may have concerns about their information being used for marketing purposes or stolen. The list goes on and on."

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    ^ Doesn't change anything, does it? We are all still here, living our lives. We all do basically what we want to do, legal or not.

  39. #39
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    skip it

  40. #40
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    Hawg - I respectfully say you're (and many others) notion of "if you have nothing to hide, there should be no problem" is COMPLETELY FCUKED UP and partly why we have arrived at this place.

    The vast populace thinks this way (well, historically has) - not giving a care to their 'helper', the gov't, overstepping.
    Shit as simple as a piss test - I mean, you have nothing to hide - so why do you have a problem interrupting you and letting me watch you pee?
    Oh you have a prob w/ that? - I guess you are a druggie!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  41. #41
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    Delll, the problem is society and the people are society. This country went astray back in the '60s. Too much "freedom", too much thinking that "I should be able to do whatever I want to do". That divided us and shot us off in all different directions. Blame the people, not the Govt. Those same people are who make up the Govt. We are all exactly alike and all exactly different. There is no clear answer to pull us all together because as individuals, we do not want to be together. We cannot agree on everything or anything for that matter. Humanity is the Earth's flaw and it will be corrected eventually.

    That's all I have to say about that.

    Signed,
    Forrest Gump

  42. #42
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    Twinkie the Kid is watching...



    ...a Lasso on the ground.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    ... This country went astray back in the '60s. Too much "freedom"...
    you really believe this?

    [or was it sarcasm that I missed?]
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    you really believe this?

    [or was it sarcasm that I missed?]
    It's a fact

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    It's a fact
    OK -
    you clearly do not know what a "FACT" entails

    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    OK -
    you clearly do not know what a "FACT" entails

    Please don't call me wrong. It's just an opinion. Things bother you far too much. Threads like these are useless. Ease up pal, it doesn't matter that much.

  47. #47
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    ??? again .. FACT does NOT equal OPINION

    I've got noting to ease up on.
    how about you stop saying your opinions are 'Facts', jack!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    Delll, the problem is society and the people are society. This country went astray back in the '60s. Too much "freedom", too much thinking that "I should be able to do whatever I want to do". That divided us and shot us off in all different directions. Blame the people, not the Govt. Those same people are who make up the Govt. We are all exactly alike and all exactly different. There is no clear answer to pull us all together because as individuals, we do not want to be together. We cannot agree on everything or anything for that matter. Humanity is the Earth's flaw and it will be corrected eventually.

    That's all I have to say about that.

    Signed,
    Forrest Gump
    Too much freedom? Too much thinking? Wow. How bout this for a take.
    After ww2, the country was doing great. Economy, housing, jobs and EDUCATION. The war pulled this country together and upward in a big way. Money realized how good war was for economy, and could be even more profitable if that was the goal in the first place. So much so that it's preached and taught till this day. Which is fine and true but let's not pretend that it's because of injustice, peace, or democracy. Fast forward, Vietnam. Went on too long, too many losses, too many smart, educated people realized we were there for too many wrong reasons, and too much freedom of the press.
    The gov knew why we were there, figured out too many people were getting too smart, and learned they had to control this freedom of the press. Sure if people believed in the cause they would rally behind it, and that it could even bolster political careers, but at that time they where too smart and too informed not to realize that it was greed and corruption. Ever since then it's been changing so that doesn't happen again. It didn't stop the military complex from cranking in the $, just all other aspects that get in the way of that. It worked/works so well, that we were led to war by Halliburton, without congressional anything, and people are so stupid and disconnected that it's still going on.
    Money and lobbyists should cause an outrage and have no place in a congressional republic, yet it has become common and excepted. It's no longer for the people by the people.
    Add to that banks and fed reserve make money by lending, do you think they want people to have enough not to have to? The game is already rigged, now it's just a matter of how bad and how long it has to go on before people are willing to sacrifice for a change.
    Round and round we go

  49. #49
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    ^^^
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    theMeat, I completely agree with you. That's exactly how it's gone so far and it's only going to get worse, too.

    One day our planet will run out of natural resources, then money will become worthless. Then you can start making your changes. Until then, we're all just puppets.

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