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  1. #1
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    NSA Wiretapping and more...

    Are we ready to start giving some credibility to some 'conspiracy theorists'?

    It really sucks when some people are trying to blow a whistle - and that whistle is dismissed.

    I, myself, have been dismissed to many conspiracies - one one topic was about Fusion Centers.
    Many thought nothing of it mostly - 'yeah, so what', 'huh?', 'get more foil'.


    As I'm sure you know now, the gov't of the US has been illegally (they say it's legal, the Constitution says it's not) scooping data transmissions - cell phone, facebook, yahoo, etc

    When will anyone start to give a fcuk to what 'nutjobs' are warning about??
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  2. #2
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    here's an eye-opening post on what may be building in US
    via reddit

    quote=617191 6 hours ago*

    I live in a country generally assumed to be a dictatorship. One of the Arab spring countries. I have lived through curfews and have seen the outcomes of the sort of surveillance now being revealed in the US. People here talking about curfews aren't realizing what that actually FEELS like. It isn't about having to go inside, and the practicality of that. It's about creating the feeling that everyone, everything is watching. A few points:

    1) the purpose of this surveillance from the governments point of view is to control enemies of the state. Not terrorists. People who are coalescing around ideas that would destabilize the status quo. These could be religious ideas. These could be groups like anon who are too good with tech for the governments liking. It makes it very easy to know who these people are. It also makes it very simple to control these people.

    Lets say you are a college student and you get in with some people who want to stop farming practices that hurt animals. So you make a plan and go to protest these practices. You get there, and wow, the protest is huge. You never expected this, you were just goofing off. Well now everyone who was there is suspect. Even though you technically had the right to protest, you're now considered a dangerous person.

    With this tech in place, the government doesn't have to put you in jail. They can do something more sinister. They can just email you a sexy picture you took with a girlfriend. Or they can email you a note saying that they can prove your dad is cheating on his taxes. Or they can threaten to get your dad fired. All you have to do, the email says, is help them catch your friends in the group. You have to report back every week, or you dad might lose his job. So you do. You turn in your friends and even though they try to keep meetings off grid, you're reporting on them to protect your dad.

    2) Let's say number one goes on. The country is a weird place now. Really weird. Pretty soon, a movement springs up like occupy, except its bigger this time. People are really serious, and they are saying they want a government without this power. I guess people are realizing that it is a serious deal. You see on the news that tear gas was fired. Your friend calls you, frantic. They're shooting people. Oh my god. you never signed up for this. You say, **** it. My dad might lose his job but I won't be responsible for anyone dying. That's going too far. You refuse to report anymore. You just stop going to meetings. You stay at home, and try not to watch the news. Three days later, police come to your door and arrest you. They confiscate your computer and phones, and they beat you up a bit. No one can help you so they all just sit quietly. They know if they say anything they're next. This happened in the country I live in. It is not a joke.

    3) Its hard to say how long you were in there. What you saw was horrible. Most of the time, you only heard screams. People begging to be killed. Noises you've never heard before. You, you were lucky. You got kicked every day when they threw your moldy food at you, but no one shocked you. No one used sexual violence on you, at least that you remember. There were some times they gave you pills, and you can't say for sure what happened then. To be honest, sometimes the pills were the best part of your day, because at least then you didn't feel anything. You have scars on you from the way you were treated. You learn in prison that torture is now common. But everyone who uploads videos or pictures of this torture is labeled a leaker. Its considered a threat to national security. Pretty soon, a cut you got on your leg is looking really bad. You think it's infected. There were no doctors in prison, and it was so overcrowded, who knows what got in the cut. You go to the doctor, but he refuses to see you. He knows if he does the government can see the records that he treated you. Even you calling his office prompts a visit from the local police.

    You decide to go home and see your parents. Maybe they can help. This leg is getting really bad. You get to their house. They aren't home. You can't reach them no matter how hard you try. A neighbor pulls you aside, and he quickly tells you they were arrested three weeks ago and haven't been seen since. You vaguely remember mentioning to them on the phone you were going to that protest. Even your little brother isn't there.

    4) Is this even really happening? You look at the news. Sports scores. Celebrity news. It's like nothing is wrong. What the hell is going on? A stranger smirks at you reading the paper. You lose it. You shout at him "**** you dude what are you laughing at can't you see I've got a ****ing wound on my leg?"

    "Sorry," he says. "I just didn't know anyone read the news anymore." There haven't been any real journalists for months. They're all in jail.

    Everyone walking around is scared. They can't talk to anyone else because they don't know who is reporting for the government. Hell, at one time YOU were reporting for the government. Maybe they just want their kid to get through school. Maybe they want to keep their job. Maybe they're sick and want to be able to visit the doctor. It's always a simple reason. Good people always do bad things for simple reasons.

    You want to protest. You want your family back. You need help for your leg. This is way beyond anything you ever wanted. It started because you just wanted to see fair treatment in farms. Now you're basically considered a terrorist, and everyone around you might be reporting on you. You definitely can't use a phone or email. You can't get a job. You can't even trust people face to face anymore. On every corner, there are people with guns. They are as scared as you are. They just don't want to lose their jobs. They don't want to be labeled as traitors.

    This all happened in the country where I live.

    You want to know why revolutions happen? Because little by little by little things get worse and worse. But this thing that is happening now is big. This is the key ingredient. This allows them to know everything they need to know to accomplish the above. The fact that they are doing it is proof that they are the sort of people who might use it in the way I described. In the country I live in, they also claimed it was for the safety of the people. Same in Soviet Russia. Same in East Germany. In fact, that is always the excuse that is used to surveil everyone. But it has never ONCE proven to be the reality.

    Maybe Obama won't do it. Maybe the next guy won't, or the one after him. Maybe this story isn't about you. Maybe it happens 10 or 20 years from now, when a big war is happening, or after another big attack. Maybe it's about your daughter or your son. We just don't know yet. But what we do know is that right now, in this moment we have a choice. Are we okay with this, or not? Do we want this power to exist, or not?

    You know for me, the reason I'm upset is that I grew up in school saying the pledge of allegiance. I was taught that the United States meant "liberty and justice for all." You get older, you learn that in this country we define that phrase based on the constitution. That's what tells us what liberty is and what justice is. Well, the government just violated that ideal. So if they aren't standing for liberty and justice anymore, what are they standing for? Safety?

    Ask yourself a question. In the story I told above, does anyone sound safe?

    I didn't make anything up. These things happened to people I know. We used to think it couldn't happen in America. But guess what? It's starting to happen.

    I actually get really upset when people say "I don't have anything to hide. Let them read everything." People saying that have no idea what they are bringing down on their own heads. They are naive, and we need to listen to people in other countries who are clearly telling us that this is a horrible horrible sign and it is time to stand up and say no.
    /quote
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  3. #3
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    here's a timeline from EFF, though (of course) it is far more extensive than this simple graph

    https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  4. #4
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    All I want to say is the first person to turn this into a Bush vs. Obama thing or a Left vs. Right thing is a rotten egged d-bag.

    Oh, and Highdell, there's been a number of conspiracy theories coming through the OC. Some are crazy, some not so much. This one, not so much. But I'm pretty sure everybody in here knew, or at least was pretty sure, the government was watching in on us. The only thing that baffles me is why the American public doesn't/didn't/don't care. Are we that afraid of terrorists?

  5. #5
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    NSA Wiretapping and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    The only thing that baffles me is why the American public doesn't/didn't/don't care. Are we that afraid of terrorists?
    We have been taught to be that afraid of terrorists. After 9-11 the government told us that terrorists were behind every shadow.

    And I still don't think the American populace really cares. There is no big uproar except in the media and a few libertarians.


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  6. #6
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    ^^^ And with the Patriot (hahah wtf) Act - We are ALL, potential terrorists - and therefore subject to prosecution outside of Due Process.

    Have too much food? Terrorist
    I shlt you not non-believers - look it up.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    We have been taught to be that afraid of terrorists. After 9-11 the government told us that terrorists were behind every shadow.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    True dat. But the American people also trained politicians to believe that attacks on their watch would be equated to guilt by association/malice/malfeasance. Whatever one might believe about attempts to control, one can't dismiss that these politicians ore more afraid of an attack on their watch than anything else.
    Last edited by Slow Danger; 06-07-2013 at 11:25 PM.

  8. #8
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    mad as hell
    <iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/orHaVIJ581s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  9. #9
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    ^^ Good vid
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  10. #10
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    The web is awash with articles like the following, which covers ground of our first few posts here:

    America the passive - Salon.com

    Strangely, one guy I admire a great deal, David Simon, writer/creator of the HBO television series The Wire, doesn't think wiretapping is such a big deal. If you've seen the television series, it's about tapping phones to get info. on drug dealers. Simon claims that the government is so buried in work, like the cops on the tv show, that there's little or no chance that they even look at a small fraction of the phone/online interaction that actually includes illegal activity. I think he's wrong, but interested folks should read about it:

    David Simon: NSA intercepts with PRISM and other programs not a big deal.
    Last edited by Slow Danger; 06-08-2013 at 11:43 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    While I have been historically a republican-libertarian and a Christian, here is a video by a liberal leaning atheist which sums it up well:

    Warning NSFW, unless you work for yourself:

    Impeach Obama - YouTube
    One has to assume posting this particular video link, out of all the potential links floating about the net, is an attempt at humor. And it is pretty funny. The link should be called "Trekkie in a batman t-shirt rants about freedom".

  12. #12
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    There's no easy answers. Is privacy more important than safety? Is the constitution still relevant in modern times? Is our constitutional republic still working as it should? Woking at all? Working for who?
    A few things seem clear to me
    -with more and more people competing over the same resources it doesn't end well
    -our form of government that was/is supposed to serve us is at a tipping point
    -it must/will get worse before people band together once again, in an attempt to make a change for the better.
    If anyone thinks surveillance by OUR government of the general public started after or because of 9/11, or that this latest nsa bs isn't just the tip of the iceberg, or if a system that's designed to feed itself isn't doing just that, I would question your sanity.
    The fact is that big money and power has controlled the world since there was money and power. We, America, started a revolution and a new government to escape control and greed, and here we are again.

    Oh, and it's not "wiretapping", it's metadata, yeah right.
    Last edited by theMeat; 06-08-2013 at 05:33 AM.
    Round and round we go

  13. #13
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    Nothing new here, our gubmint has trampled our civil liberties for generations. I just find highly implausible that all these abuses that are being brought to light lately are localized anomalies that the administration has no knowledge of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Nothing new here, our gubmint has trampled our civil liberties for generations. I just find highly implausible that all these abuses that are being brought to light lately are localized anomalies that the administration has no knowledge of.
    It does seem to be by design.



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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    ^^^ And with the Patriot (hahah wtf) Act - We are ALL, potential terrorists - and therefore subject to prosecution outside of Due Process.

    The Patriot Act was/is a bit different. The Patriot Act focused on communication from the states to overseas areas of concern to combat terrorism. This however is much different. This is targeting US civilians for anything they feel they want to find out. It's a bit scary and unerving if you ask me.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  16. #16
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    Bottom Line: Liberties within Media & their Media informants versus Government function -- Bank on it. Much too easy to assume the easy-read version.
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  17. #17
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    The Patriot Act is a farse, the name alone should tell you that. If that's what we do know about it's troubling to think of what we don't.
    Just a few short years ago if you brought up Project Echelon you were dismissed as a foil wearing freak.
    Round and round we go

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    The Patriot Act is a farse, the name alone should tell you that. If that's what we do know about it's troubling to think of what we don't.
    Just a few short years ago if you brought up Project Echelon you were dismissed as a foil wearing freak.
    Having had to search the Internet to learn of ECHELON, these are all part of the infrastructure of Internet Society security. Not much more than an enormous Voting Computer looking for a lever that's been pulled.
    Going and introducing the concept into conversation is a non-issue; anyone who would would certainly display some type of dissatisfaction with their immediate surroundings, clue-in to a lack of attention upon something or being in a conditioned-state.

    For example look at Highdelll over here...
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


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    Oh god! I opened this link!!!! are they watching me now too!!??

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

    Its ok, our own government was founded with the understanding that we are allowed to legally alter or abolish it.

    Go ahead, ill watch.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    Having had to search the Internet to learn of ECHELON, these are all part of the infrastructure of Internet Society security. Not much more than an enormous Voting Computer looking for a lever that's been pulled.
    Going and introducing the concept into conversation is a non-issue; anyone who would would certainly display some type of dissatisfaction with their immediate surroundings, clue-in to a lack of attention upon something or being in a conditioned-state.

    For example look at Highdelll over here...
    My point was only that a few years ago that it was dismissed as conspiracy theory. Most people would quote the constitution and/or be convinced that their gov wouldn't do such a thing, especially in secret. Now it's a matter of fact to the point were it's considered no big deal, "not much more than" a what?
    Like frogs slowly warming upon the stove.
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRingGrinder View Post
    Go ahead, ill watch.
    I was kind of hoping for a bit more active participation, as change is effected.

    The problem is, it has been altered ... See my previous
    IMHO, it's become a Limited Republic in name only.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRingGrinder View Post
    Oh god! I opened this link!!!! are they watching me now too!!??

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. —That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

    Its ok, our own government was founded with the understanding that we are allowed to legally alter or abolish it.

    Go ahead, ill watch.



    Within the next year there will be people demonstrating in the streets. The reports of the last couple of weeks are but the tip of the iceberg, much more to come.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    My point was only that a few years ago that it was dismissed as conspiracy theory. Most people would quote the constitution and/or be convinced that their gov wouldn't do such a thing, especially in secret. Now it's a matter of fact to the point were it's considered no big deal, "not much more than" a what?
    Like frogs slowly warming upon the stove.
    Oh, I had gotten your grasp - it is just the sheer elementary of how this has come to be a topic these past few days. The News Media. There is so much compartmentalization they do and choose to do that it is impossible not to be surprised the FBI or NSA has been doing estimates. In fact the very Constitutional Rights afforded to each of us and all of us also maintain the ever-churning Media Machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    I was kind of hoping for a bit more active participation, as change is effected.
    Politicians are corrupt. Federal laws are mires of red tape requiring years of law school to navigate. Funding of political campaigns by big money companies ensure the stupid rich remain stupid rich. Hell, i read that the united states spends more than double what the drug lords make in our "war on drugs". With the world standard of currency going away from the american dollar, our practice of printing more money to pay our debts will no longer work. There is a lota jacked stuff going on and YES, its going to get worse. I do not have my head buried in the ground oblivious to the corruption and blind stupidity of the way our government is being run.

    But...

    My family and i are alive and well. I do not fear for my loved one's lives on a daily basis. We do not need to check in with each other to make sure we made it through another day.

    The very fact that this thread exists proves that we still hold on to liberty. Conservative and liberal news media exists. Conspiracy theories are published daily and the authors are not hauled off to prison. I can give voice to government criticism in a public place with out fearing for my loved one's safety.

    I can drink, fvck, surf, and ride my bike. I can watch movies, read books, and go to sporting events. Sure my life would be better if i was filthy rich, but overall i am happy and cant think of any where else in the world i would rather live.

    When my life liberty and pursuit of happiness are being affected, i will raise my voice. As the government crosses that line more and more people will raise their voices. Change will come eventually, but like the serenity prayer preaches... In the meantime i will accept the things i can not change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Time to get busy then!
    When.

    Key word.

  26. #26
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    Therein lies the lack of motivation. Until something or things personally effect enough people drastically enough, nothing will get done. IME there's far more that'r reactionary, too few who are visionary for it to go down any other way.
    Round and round we go

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    Name:  300px-Twinki_the_kid.jpg
Views: 224
Size:  12.2 KB

    Twinkie had to learn the Lasso.

    Key Word.

    The.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


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    LOL


    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Haint again.

  29. #29
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    Good watch/listen
    <iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/B71_u0JVtyM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  30. #30
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    Not possible, there is no bilderberg. That's conspiracy talk.
    Round and round we go

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Within the next year there will be people demonstrating in the streets. The reports of the last couple of weeks are but the tip of the iceberg, much more to come.
    It's about time people woke up to reality.

    Turn it up

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigringgrinder View Post
    politicians are corrupt. Federal laws are mires of red tape requiring years of law school to navigate. Funding of political campaigns by big money companies ensure the stupid rich remain stupid rich. Hell, i read that the united states spends more than double what the drug lords make in our "war on drugs". With the world standard of currency going away from the american dollar, our practice of printing more money to pay our debts will no longer work. There is a lota jacked stuff going on and yes, its going to get worse. I do not have my head buried in the ground oblivious to the corruption and blind stupidity of the way our government is being run.

    But...

    My family and i are alive and well. I do not fear for my loved one's lives on a daily basis. We do not need to check in with each other to make sure we made it through another day.

    The very fact that this thread exists proves that we still hold on to liberty. Conservative and liberal news media exists. Conspiracy theories are published daily and the authors are not hauled off to prison. I can give voice to government criticism in a public place with out fearing for my loved one's safety.

    I can drink, fvck, surf, and ride my bike. I can watch movies, read books, and go to sporting events. Sure my life would be better if i was filthy rich, but overall i am happy and cant think of any where else in the world i would rather live.

    When my life liberty and pursuit of happiness are being affected, i will raise my voice. As the government crosses that line more and more people will raise their voices. Change will come eventually, but like the serenity prayer preaches... In the meantime i will accept the things i can not change.
    i will not comply !



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    Thread meet toilet. Toilet, this is thread.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    Are we ready to start giving some credibility to some 'conspiracy theorists'?

    It really sucks when some people are trying to blow a whistle - and that whistle is dismissed.

    I, myself, have been dismissed to many conspiracies - one one topic was about Fusion Centers.
    Many thought nothing of it mostly - 'yeah, so what', 'huh?', 'get more foil'.


    As I'm sure you know now, the gov't of the US has been illegally (they say it's legal, the Constitution says it's not) scooping data transmissions - cell phone, facebook, yahoo, etc

    When will anyone start to give a fcuk to what 'nutjobs' are warning about??
    Even since the birth of the internet the spying has been going on, but back then they did not have the capacity to monitor everything due to technological constraints. I'd guess for the last 10 years or so fukking everything has been recorded, monitored, saved, archived, datamined, sorted and whatever more crap they could possibly do with the data. I mean phone/internet everything, all electronic communication.

    I'm not at all surprised. Only now in the last recent years has there been hardware powerful enough to do this, and an easy enough system to tap into, where everything is more or less in plaintext, and where you can setup shop right where the action is. If something is technically possible you can bet your ass some fukker is already doing it, illegal or not. thats the way shit works.

    And now its time for phase 2, analyzing peoples behaviour and sending them to whereever the **** they send people that has different opinoins than the government sanctioned stance. Oh yeah Gulag, thats what its called. Only a matter of time now, and since our elected politicians are in on it I'm guessing it will only escalate. In Gulag no one can hear you scream.
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    What exactly do we all have to hide? Me, nothing, so let them look. Doesn't change my life in any way whatsoever.

    Who exactly can you trust these days? Absolutely nobody!!! There are registered sex offenders living on my street in both directions. The guy living behind me will rob a bank tomorrow and the guy next to him will start a 20K acre forest fire the day after tomorrow. These are not thoughts of paranoia, these are facts. So, let them look. If it stops the next attack, I'm all for it. In fact, join them! You want job security, nothing is as secure as a Gov't job.

    It's a fvcked up world and there's nothing you can do about it... and it's gonna get worse.

    So, deal with it. Get livin' or get dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    Thread meet toilet. Toilet, this is thread.
    Wanna express this with meaning, or are you afraid to express your true self ?

  37. #37
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    Re: NSA Wiretapping and more...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    What exactly do we all have to hide? Me, nothing, so let them look. Doesn't change my life in any way whatsoever.
    Here is how one of my friends responded to the "I have nothing to hide" argument.

    " Let's break it down, shall we? That statement is basically a false dichotomy - the same kind of conundrum as "you're either with us or against us." It presents a false choice: you are either guilty of something and therefore have a reason to hide it, or you are not guilty of anything and therefore have no reason to hide anything. It is based on the (false) premise that privacy's sole purpose is to conceal wrongdoing, and it excludes the possibility that someone may be innocent of any wrongdoing buy may still want to conceal their activities. Why? Because something is embarrassing, but not wrong. Something may be deeply personal. Someone may have concerns about their information being used for marketing purposes or stolen. The list goes on and on."

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    ^ Doesn't change anything, does it? We are all still here, living our lives. We all do basically what we want to do, legal or not.

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    skip it

  40. #40
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    Hawg - I respectfully say you're (and many others) notion of "if you have nothing to hide, there should be no problem" is COMPLETELY FCUKED UP and partly why we have arrived at this place.

    The vast populace thinks this way (well, historically has) - not giving a care to their 'helper', the gov't, overstepping.
    Shit as simple as a piss test - I mean, you have nothing to hide - so why do you have a problem interrupting you and letting me watch you pee?
    Oh you have a prob w/ that? - I guess you are a druggie!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Delll, the problem is society and the people are society. This country went astray back in the '60s. Too much "freedom", too much thinking that "I should be able to do whatever I want to do". That divided us and shot us off in all different directions. Blame the people, not the Govt. Those same people are who make up the Govt. We are all exactly alike and all exactly different. There is no clear answer to pull us all together because as individuals, we do not want to be together. We cannot agree on everything or anything for that matter. Humanity is the Earth's flaw and it will be corrected eventually.

    That's all I have to say about that.

    Signed,
    Forrest Gump

  42. #42
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    Twinkie the Kid is watching...



    ...a Lasso on the ground.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    ... This country went astray back in the '60s. Too much "freedom"...
    you really believe this?

    [or was it sarcasm that I missed?]
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    you really believe this?

    [or was it sarcasm that I missed?]
    It's a fact

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    It's a fact
    OK -
    you clearly do not know what a "FACT" entails

    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    OK -
    you clearly do not know what a "FACT" entails

    Please don't call me wrong. It's just an opinion. Things bother you far too much. Threads like these are useless. Ease up pal, it doesn't matter that much.

  47. #47
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    ??? again .. FACT does NOT equal OPINION

    I've got noting to ease up on.
    how about you stop saying your opinions are 'Facts', jack!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    Delll, the problem is society and the people are society. This country went astray back in the '60s. Too much "freedom", too much thinking that "I should be able to do whatever I want to do". That divided us and shot us off in all different directions. Blame the people, not the Govt. Those same people are who make up the Govt. We are all exactly alike and all exactly different. There is no clear answer to pull us all together because as individuals, we do not want to be together. We cannot agree on everything or anything for that matter. Humanity is the Earth's flaw and it will be corrected eventually.

    That's all I have to say about that.

    Signed,
    Forrest Gump
    Too much freedom? Too much thinking? Wow. How bout this for a take.
    After ww2, the country was doing great. Economy, housing, jobs and EDUCATION. The war pulled this country together and upward in a big way. Money realized how good war was for economy, and could be even more profitable if that was the goal in the first place. So much so that it's preached and taught till this day. Which is fine and true but let's not pretend that it's because of injustice, peace, or democracy. Fast forward, Vietnam. Went on too long, too many losses, too many smart, educated people realized we were there for too many wrong reasons, and too much freedom of the press.
    The gov knew why we were there, figured out too many people were getting too smart, and learned they had to control this freedom of the press. Sure if people believed in the cause they would rally behind it, and that it could even bolster political careers, but at that time they where too smart and too informed not to realize that it was greed and corruption. Ever since then it's been changing so that doesn't happen again. It didn't stop the military complex from cranking in the $, just all other aspects that get in the way of that. It worked/works so well, that we were led to war by Halliburton, without congressional anything, and people are so stupid and disconnected that it's still going on.
    Money and lobbyists should cause an outrage and have no place in a congressional republic, yet it has become common and excepted. It's no longer for the people by the people.
    Add to that banks and fed reserve make money by lending, do you think they want people to have enough not to have to? The game is already rigged, now it's just a matter of how bad and how long it has to go on before people are willing to sacrifice for a change.
    Round and round we go

  49. #49
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    ^^^
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    theMeat, I completely agree with you. That's exactly how it's gone so far and it's only going to get worse, too.

    One day our planet will run out of natural resources, then money will become worthless. Then you can start making your changes. Until then, we're all just puppets.

  51. #51
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    hawg - I'm not sure what you agree with
    I and theMeat were countering your absurd opinion that we had 'too much freedom' in the 60's
    you disagree with me, but you agree with theMeat who tore your 'blame the people' argument up
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  52. #52
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    we still got space! and the moon to mine...

    Name:  mining_lg.jpg
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    BBC News - What if you could mine the Moon?
    broadcasting from
    "the vinyl basement"

    build trail!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    hawg - I'm not sure what you agree with
    I and theMeat were countering your absurd opinion that we had 'too much freedom' in the 60's
    you disagree with me, but you agree with theMeat who tore your 'blame the people' argument up
    To be perfectly honest, I'm just having fun with this silly thread. It's fun to get you guys all worked up. I'm just sitting back and enjoying the ride, that's what OC is all about, right? This is stress/fatigue therapy for me so thanks!

  54. #54
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    Hawg, I'm pretty sure you just admitted that you're trolling and that's cool and ok because it's the OC. Whatever, you're entitled to your opinion, even thou I do agree with dell that your 60's post is absurd, I'm not picking sides, just my opinion for you to consider.
    Here's some pos rep for you to show I'm far from worked up, and if you really do believe it's not that big a deal, there's no reason to get personal, sarcastic, or have the last word to justify your opinion. It's all good.
    Round and round we go

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    Glad you see it's really all just for fun. Thanks.

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    Complacency ... A form of submission.

    “Experience has shown, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.”
    ― Thomas Jefferson

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Oh wait, the Kardashian's just gained 5 pounds!
    Twinkie the Kid. He's an obnoxious rascal!
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


  58. #58
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    One day, in a perfect world, the new Karkrashian kid will be Pres, and all our problems will be solved!!!
    It's all Here. Now.

  59. #59
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    TheMeat drives home the most rigid view of the USA. Only ROP Politic would attempt and argue w/ this.

    Someone like me still realizes the better outlook which came out of those days, am not about to let any fractured viewpoints or another newfound right of passage snuff things out.

    The current Admin has played a good hand the past couple days by re-establishing ties with the UAE, allowing more language into the real botherations being assessed - N. Korea's blanketing of the South and of Japan, and of course what is Iranian malfeasance within, well, everywhere's else. Iran does seem to avoid upsetting the Marketplace with counterfeit goods, have to respect this in some fashion...
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


  60. #60
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    I am afraid I don't speak Haint!
    It's all Here. Now.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I am afraid I don't speak Haint!
    Use non-speak Highdelll, version 2.5

    Downloaded a Beta whilst his doing the city of Los Angeles.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


  62. #62
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    Nope, sorry! No disrespect intended, as English is obviously not your first language, but I feel like I'm in a Monty Python sketch when I read some of your posts...
    It's all Here. Now.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by theMeat View Post
    Too much freedom? Too much thinking? Wow. How bout this for a take.
    Freedom is Freedom no matter what, there are only different levels of oppression, repression and control.
    It's all Here. Now.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Nope, sorry! No disrespect intended, as English is obviously not your first language, but I feel like I'm in a Monty Python sketch when I read some of your posts...
    Meh. To be honest this thread seems like just a way for Highdelll to continue some kind of manifesto destiny on the Site, I'd kinda hoped to engage some other, related, talking points.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    Meh. To be honest this thread seems like just a way for Highdelll to continue some kind of manifesto destiny on the Site, I'd kinda hoped to engage some other, related, talking points.
    Exactly! That's why I threw a wrench into his gears. I see a pattern developing.

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    There is no such thing as Freedom.

    Just Free Dumb

    The United States of America, and its Constitution, add up to nothing more than State Sanctioned religion designed around a total industrialized society, and Democracy is the creed (oath).

    NSA Wiretapping and more...-wholysheepontheroad.jpg

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    The only thing that baffles me is why the American public doesn't/didn't/don't care. Are we that afraid of terrorists?
    The only thing that baffles me is why the American public doesn't/didn't/don't care. Are we that afraid of terrorists?

    No, not afraid of terrorists at all.
    Just know that in my crazy so called life I am not doing anything that would interest the government in watching me and if I did, I sure as hell would not blog about or be overtly open about it.

    Facts
    1) Yes, I have no doubt the government is illegally watching people.
    2) They can't watch everyone so if you think they are watching you personally than you than you are probably doing something that warrants watching or you probably need that tinfoil hat.
    3) Eventually one day technology will probably get to the point where they will have some super computer that can watch every single person to the point where they know even when you fart.
    4) Knowing about it won't stop it. They lied in the past, they lie now, they will continue to lie even when they are caught.

    This doesn't mean you accept their lies, you just pick your battles instead.
    First and foremost keep your personal life personal.

    15+ years ago I said this country is going to have a revolution and I will not be surprised if this happens in our life time. If there is one thing history has proven time and time again, it does repeat itself and governments always fail.

    BTW, the first thing a government does when it starts getting to that point is it tries to disarm the people. So anyone who thinks that for one moment stricter gun control will make us safer I got news for you. The criminals we need to defend ourselves from are not the criminals on the streets, it is the criminals in Washington DC.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  68. #68
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    June 20th is National Free Your Breasts day, looking forward to many participants.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    June 20th is National Free Your Breasts day, looking forward to many participants.
    Come to Asheville, there will be plenty of participants.

    Problem is they usually not the ones you want to see.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  70. #70
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    All i know is that going by this thread Acid use must be higher than ever......

    Of course the govts moniter certain groups, the have always done and if they didnt people would be complaining when terrorist acts happen and kill innocent people.

    But heres the reality, the govts are stretched to the limits, they dont even have the capabilities to moniter direct threats and home born terrorism, and security.

    Theres no way they have the capabilities to be tracking every tom dick n harry that want to go protest about things.

    You know why people dont take the conspiracy nutters out there serious, because like in post 2 of this thread its totally blown out of proportion and its fear mongering, just the same thing as the conspiracy theorists say the govt does with home security.

    The conspiracy theorists are just as bad and spout just as much garbage n crap as the govts they are talking about, imo its hilarious.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    here's an eye-opening post on what may be building in US
    via reddit

    quote=617191 6 hours ago*

    I live in a country generally assumed to be a dictatorship. One of the Arab spring countries. I have lived through curfews and have seen the outcomes of the sort of surveillance now being revealed in the US. People here talking about curfews aren't realizing what that actually FEELS like. It isn't about having to go inside, and the practicality of that. It's about creating the feeling that everyone, everything is watching. A few points:

    1) the purpose of this surveillance from the governments point of view is to control enemies of the state. Not terrorists. People who are coalescing around ideas that would destabilize the status quo. These could be religious ideas. These could be groups like anon who are too good with tech for the governments liking. It makes it very easy to know who these people are. It also makes it very simple to control these people.

    Lets say you are a college student and you get in with some people who want to stop farming practices that hurt animals. So you make a plan and go to protest these practices. You get there, and wow, the protest is huge. You never expected this, you were just goofing off. Well now everyone who was there is suspect. Even though you technically had the right to protest, you're now considered a dangerous person.

    With this tech in place, the government doesn't have to put you in jail. They can do something more sinister. They can just email you a sexy picture you took with a girlfriend. Or they can email you a note saying that they can prove your dad is cheating on his taxes. Or they can threaten to get your dad fired. All you have to do, the email says, is help them catch your friends in the group. You have to report back every week, or you dad might lose his job. So you do. You turn in your friends and even though they try to keep meetings off grid, you're reporting on them to protect your dad.

    2) Let's say number one goes on. The country is a weird place now. Really weird. Pretty soon, a movement springs up like occupy, except its bigger this time. People are really serious, and they are saying they want a government without this power. I guess people are realizing that it is a serious deal. You see on the news that tear gas was fired. Your friend calls you, frantic. They're shooting people. Oh my god. you never signed up for this. You say, **** it. My dad might lose his job but I won't be responsible for anyone dying. That's going too far. You refuse to report anymore. You just stop going to meetings. You stay at home, and try not to watch the news. Three days later, police come to your door and arrest you. They confiscate your computer and phones, and they beat you up a bit. No one can help you so they all just sit quietly. They know if they say anything they're next. This happened in the country I live in. It is not a joke.

    3) Its hard to say how long you were in there. What you saw was horrible. Most of the time, you only heard screams. People begging to be killed. Noises you've never heard before. You, you were lucky. You got kicked every day when they threw your moldy food at you, but no one shocked you. No one used sexual violence on you, at least that you remember. There were some times they gave you pills, and you can't say for sure what happened then. To be honest, sometimes the pills were the best part of your day, because at least then you didn't feel anything. You have scars on you from the way you were treated. You learn in prison that torture is now common. But everyone who uploads videos or pictures of this torture is labeled a leaker. Its considered a threat to national security. Pretty soon, a cut you got on your leg is looking really bad. You think it's infected. There were no doctors in prison, and it was so overcrowded, who knows what got in the cut. You go to the doctor, but he refuses to see you. He knows if he does the government can see the records that he treated you. Even you calling his office prompts a visit from the local police.

    You decide to go home and see your parents. Maybe they can help. This leg is getting really bad. You get to their house. They aren't home. You can't reach them no matter how hard you try. A neighbor pulls you aside, and he quickly tells you they were arrested three weeks ago and haven't been seen since. You vaguely remember mentioning to them on the phone you were going to that protest. Even your little brother isn't there.

    4) Is this even really happening? You look at the news. Sports scores. Celebrity news. It's like nothing is wrong. What the hell is going on? A stranger smirks at you reading the paper. You lose it. You shout at him "**** you dude what are you laughing at can't you see I've got a ****ing wound on my leg?"

    "Sorry," he says. "I just didn't know anyone read the news anymore." There haven't been any real journalists for months. They're all in jail.

    Everyone walking around is scared. They can't talk to anyone else because they don't know who is reporting for the government. Hell, at one time YOU were reporting for the government. Maybe they just want their kid to get through school. Maybe they want to keep their job. Maybe they're sick and want to be able to visit the doctor. It's always a simple reason. Good people always do bad things for simple reasons.

    You want to protest. You want your family back. You need help for your leg. This is way beyond anything you ever wanted. It started because you just wanted to see fair treatment in farms. Now you're basically considered a terrorist, and everyone around you might be reporting on you. You definitely can't use a phone or email. You can't get a job. You can't even trust people face to face anymore. On every corner, there are people with guns. They are as scared as you are. They just don't want to lose their jobs. They don't want to be labeled as traitors.

    This all happened in the country where I live.

    You want to know why revolutions happen? Because little by little by little things get worse and worse. But this thing that is happening now is big. This is the key ingredient. This allows them to know everything they need to know to accomplish the above. The fact that they are doing it is proof that they are the sort of people who might use it in the way I described. In the country I live in, they also claimed it was for the safety of the people. Same in Soviet Russia. Same in East Germany. In fact, that is always the excuse that is used to surveil everyone. But it has never ONCE proven to be the reality.

    Maybe Obama won't do it. Maybe the next guy won't, or the one after him. Maybe this story isn't about you. Maybe it happens 10 or 20 years from now, when a big war is happening, or after another big attack. Maybe it's about your daughter or your son. We just don't know yet. But what we do know is that right now, in this moment we have a choice. Are we okay with this, or not? Do we want this power to exist, or not?

    You know for me, the reason I'm upset is that I grew up in school saying the pledge of allegiance. I was taught that the United States meant "liberty and justice for all." You get older, you learn that in this country we define that phrase based on the constitution. That's what tells us what liberty is and what justice is. Well, the government just violated that ideal. So if they aren't standing for liberty and justice anymore, what are they standing for? Safety?

    Ask yourself a question. In the story I told above, does anyone sound safe?

    I didn't make anything up. These things happened to people I know. We used to think it couldn't happen in America. But guess what? It's starting to happen.

    I actually get really upset when people say "I don't have anything to hide. Let them read everything." People saying that have no idea what they are bringing down on their own heads. They are naive, and we need to listen to people in other countries who are clearly telling us that this is a horrible horrible sign and it is time to stand up and say no.
    /quote
    This is the biggest load of alarmist crap ive ever read, who wrote this dribble? the funniest bit is where he says '' i didnt make anything up, this all happened to people i know"" bwahahahahaha
    name the source, who what when and where or its pure bullshit.
    Ridiculous articles like this are written for certain groups of people that all share the same quality, a very average IQ's (although they think they have high ones lol) and a tendency to be a conspiracy theorist and a dreamer, the same sort of people that makes trips to Roswell thinking they can spot an alien or spaceship.

    Theres no doubt the govt and certain departments monitor plenty of people, thats a fact nobody can deny and im happy they do but unless the govt has 10 million people working fultime monitoring us all the above sort of alarmism is ridiculous.

    Yes in life plenty of things are a conspiracy, humans will do what they have to do to achieve what they need too, but the thing is conspiracy theorists are so easy for anybody to play with, their way of thinking is so predictable that it makes them very easy targets, and the people they fight against play on this and the govt does too.
    Everybody is a few steps in front of them, they just drip feed them bullshit and they take it hook line and sinker.

    You will never find an easier foe or enemy than a conspiracy theorist, it would be like having a 10 year old kid as your enemy..
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Freedom is Freedom no matter what, there are only different levels of oppression, repression and control.
    No, more of one = less of the other.

    Unless i just can't calculate rockerc.
    Round and round we go

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    There exists only "limitations."

    In other words, they are simply challenges.

    Like someone else said, choose ^them^ wisely.

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    "Maybe Obama won't do it. Maybe the next guy won't, or the one after him. Maybe this story isn't about you. Maybe it happens 10 or 20 years from now, when a big war is happening, or after another big attack. Maybe it's about your daughter or your son. We just don't know yet. But what we do know is that right now, in this moment we have a choice. Are we okay with this, or not? Do we want this power to exist, or not?"

    Exactly. It's like the frogs in the pot of boiling water. Small individual rights being taken away. So small and gradual, that no one notices, even give them away in the name of National Security, and Your Protection. The USA is no longer "FREE." Get used to the idea.

    In Germany they first came for the Communists,

    and I didn't speak up becaise I wasn't a Communist.



    Then they came for the Jews,

    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.



    Then they came for the trade unionists,

    and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.



    Then they came for the Catholics,

    and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.



    Then they came for me --

    and by that time no one was left to speak up.

  75. #75
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    Criminal Probe ... Can You Hear Me Now ?

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    I'm a humanistarianolicant.

    They'll never catch me!

  77. #77
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    LOL, i think they have there hands full with 2.3 BILLION Muslims on the planet, in 20 years there will be 4 billion, have a think about that.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    LOL, i think they have there hands full with 2.3 BILLION Muslims on the planet, in 20 years there will be 4 billion, have a think about that.....
    From a "special" distance we're just cockroaches of varying sizes, shapes and colors.

    Have a think about that...

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by master_bater View Post
    From a "special" distance we're just cockroaches of varying sizes, shapes and colors.

    Have a think about that...
    As long as your happy for a certain group of cockroaches to destroy their own countries, then spread out and bring their dramas and fighting and destruction to the rest of the cockroaches living with freedom and peace.
    Go live in a muslim country and have no freedom other than that of sharia law then come back and tell me we are all the same from a distance...

    Have a think about that...
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    As long as your happy for a certain group of cockroaches to destroy their own countries, then spread out and bring their dramas and fighting and destruction to the rest of the cockroaches living with freedom and peace.
    Go live in a muslim country and have no freedom other than that of sharia law then come back and tell me we are all the same from a distance...

    Have a think about that...
    I've already explained that there is no such thing as freedom...

    It's a "special" distance.

  81. #81
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    A brief bio on me for perspective:
    1968 & Vietnam - My dad is in charge of the air data controllers on 4 out 12 casket C-141s. He roughly counts the bodies as he walks thru the ship. There were more bodies on his 4 planes than the nightly news is reporting. Humm... reporting less than 25% of actual?

    IE: I learned at 10 yrs old to be skeptical of what they are telling us.

    Delll -

    I'm with you bro.

    Guys, his comment about having too much food will put you a terrorist watch list is totally true. I have seen the DHS bulletin sent out to LEAs. Food storage was one of a few warning signs of terrorist activity and IIRC the 'trigger' was only a month or less of food. We've got a couple weeks easy in our kitchen.....

    This is a multifaceted subject...

    One big problems we face is the ability of .Gov to compile and process data. The insurmountable task of sorting and processing the billions of pieces of data daily has become practical. Google is great example. For a very simple example, look at this websites sidebars. I clean my cookies and browser history every day but I still get 'targeted' ads based on the websites I visited prior to coming here. You are being tracked and compiled every time you click anywhere on the net.

    Swipe your credit card at a major retailer, your purchasing data at minimum gets compiled and very very likely sold.

    Data is worth a LOT. When I stated my first business in the early 80's (pre-internet), I bought a book on direct marketing. It was written by a guy that sold things by direct mail like bird houses. He goes on to point out the real money is not in the bird houses but in selling the list of known good 'bird enthuses'. He made 3-4x selling the lists and only sold products as a way to create the lists...

    I live in a neighborhood with a abnormally number of retired LEOs. We got FBI, CIA, and many local level guys. I'm on very good terms with several. The one thing I have learned is that they are always looking for something to be wrong. Always paying attention to the way you act, talk, etc. We have a kooky black helicopter guy too. In a recent neighborhood meeting they (LEOs plus a couple gossips) were taking 2 + 2 and getting 16. "I saw him stumbled walking down the road -> He was really drunk"... Me - Maybe he tripped on a rock.

    Seems harmless right. Well... I get a call from the sheriffs dept shortly after this asking me to confirm rumors that were created during this BS fest. I didn't. At the meeting, I got my self in hot water because I was presenting normal explanations for their data and then supposed FACT. I was even called 'his buddy' a couple of times. The part that bothers me the most is the ability of some LEOs to expand the facts to create the answer they are looking for instead of letting the facts drive the answer.

    ETA - BTW, a day after the sheriffs called me, they sent 3 deputies out to his for friendly questioning. Ya the guy is a kook for thinking the black medivac helicopters are spying on him but send guys to his house?? Can't happen to you?

    Is this what .Gov is going to do with their giant data mining machine?

  82. #82
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    Re: NSA Wiretapping and more...

    They're also collecting your strava speeds

    Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

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    Can I just start selling my future purchases and internet usage right now, so I can cut out the middle man?

    Seems like a good investment. Any takers?

  84. #84
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    Ron Paul 1984 (actually says 1994)
    <iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cAWmKpBeEz0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Now ya did it, pulled out the Paul Card.

    Now nothing you say will be taken seriously.


    All this stuff will be obsolete in less than ten years. Nanotechnology will make privacy a thing of the past.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Haintspeak - poor jokes, English metaphors and mixed-inside. School, wait you're high!
    Fixed that for ya'.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


  87. #87
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    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post

    The conspiracy theorists are just as bad and spout just as much garbage n crap as the govts they are talking about, imo its hilarious.
    Only problem here is this; its not a conspiracy theory, this is conspiracy fukking FACT.

    The NSA Is Building the Country's Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say) | Threat Level | Wired.com

    Utah Data Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  89. #89
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    I just caught an NSA agent hiding in my closet. The son-of-a-***** was finishing up the last Dove bar we had in our freezer. All week long my wife and I were accusing each other of eating all the Dove bars.

  90. #90
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    Oh, she can have the man... Nobody touches my fvckin' Dove Bars!

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    As long as your happy for a certain group of cockroaches to destroy their own countries, then spread out and bring their dramas and fighting and destruction to the rest of the cockroaches living with freedom and peace.
    Go live in a muslim country and have no freedom other than that of sharia law then come back and tell me we are all the same from a distance...

    Have a think about that...
    You're ... Have a think about that...

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Interview with the whistleblower. He doesn't seem nuts, not a conspiracy wacko, and has some good reasons for doing what he did...I agree with him, these things should be up to the people.

    I have a test for constitutionality - what would the founding fathers think about this? I think they'd be on the side of the whistelblower.


    Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations | World news | guardian.co.uk
    Sure, he may not seem "nuts", or a "conspiracy wacko" but what were if any his underlying motivations for this? What is being fed now by the news media and newspapers is scripted and is able to be prepared for to an extent, if this were an act intended to support other Government, Foreign Government.

    I'm pretty sure Intel Analysts are pretty p.o.'d with this guy's feeling he needed attention. For each coming rash, partially-informed statement placing innocent, hardworking American citizens squarely under any web of Intelligence Collection and Dissemination, there is an equal number of - not even fundamentalists - individuals working to upset progress and normalcy within Government. Most - they act alone. Should there be discovery that actions to undermine Government were supported or orchestrated by another Government with intent to be subverse... these NSA apparatus type-things don't appear to be so coarse, do they??

    Whatever Snowden's personal agenda was, this is an enormous distraction. He did no service with his quest for truism, and in fact was probably outted and apprehended by the News Media being fed the 'Big Story', his waiting for and expectation of compensation.

    Maybe score one for the News Media with this breaking story, I say it is more one of these runs scored by an error we see in Baseball in that regard however.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    Are we ready to start giving some credibility to some 'conspiracy theorists'?

    It really sucks when some people are trying to blow a whistle - and that whistle is dismissed.

    I, myself, have been dismissed to many conspiracies - one one topic was about Fusion Centers.
    Many thought nothing of it mostly - 'yeah, so what', 'huh?', 'get more foil'.


    As I'm sure you know now, the gov't of the US has been illegally (they say it's legal, the Constitution says it's not) scooping data transmissions - cell phone, facebook, yahoo, etc

    When will anyone start to give a fcuk to what 'nutjobs' are warning about??
    It started with Nixon and now your Constitution is no longer operative...just a piece of paper that Bush flushed down your toilet.

    At least in Canada we have no rights so there's no need to live the hypocrisy of "democracy and freedom".

    Sadly, the America we knew, loved, and looked up to is just a memory..

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by JM01 View Post
    Sadly, the America we knew, loved, and looked up to is just a memory.
    **** that, I'm here and I have no plans to be anywhere else.
    I like Sand - I don't like Witches


  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haint View Post
    **** that, I'm here and I have no plans to be anywhere else.
    I just did a 20,000km road trip through 25 states, using secondary roads as much as possible...I've learned that America is a very different place from what it was 20 years ago. A very divided country based on religious and political ideology.

    I was almost assaulted by an old guy with a cane for saying that parts of New Mexico reminded me of the geography of Afghanistan where I lived for a while, and found the Afghans to be nicer than many of the bikers I met in Albuquerque. Learned to not share my thoughts about Trayvon Martin in Texas as well...

    Just a long way of saying that freedom of speech is now a myth...then there were those comments about my Lebanese wife. I guess freedom of religion is gone too, unless you're a white Christian.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm01 View Post
    i just did a 20,000km road trip through 25 states, using secondary roads as much as possible...i've learned that the world is a very different place from what it was 20 years ago.


    fify.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    fify.
    Not really, but it proves that the "terrorists" have won their war on America...

    bin Laden's stated goal was to bankrupt America, and he did...plus Americans now live in fear, let their government tap their 'phones, monitor their interweb use, track their financial activity, they fly naked, are asked to spy on their neighbours...and much more.

    Sadly, Americans no longer trust Americans. The first thing I did when I crossed the border was buy a gun at a flea market. Because of the conceal carry laws, the criminals know that cars with Canadian plates are unarmed, so I fixed that. Threw in a dumpster before crossing back into Canada.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by JM01 View Post
    I just did a 20,000km road trip through 25 states, using secondary roads as much as possible...I've learned that America is a very different place from what it was 20 years ago. A very divided country based on religious and political ideology.

    I was almost assaulted by an old guy with a cane for saying that parts of New Mexico reminded me of the geography of Afghanistan where I lived for a while, and found the Afghans to be nicer than many of the bikers I met in Albuquerque. Learned to not share my thoughts about Trayvon Martin in Texas as well...

    Just a long way of saying that freedom of speech is now a myth...then there were those comments about my Lebanese wife. I guess freedom of religion is gone too, unless you're a white Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by JM01 View Post
    Not really, but it proves that the "terrorists" have won their war on America...

    bin Laden's stated goal was to bankrupt America, and he did...plus Americans now live in fear, let their government tap their 'phones, monitor their interweb use, track their financial activity, they fly naked, are asked to spy on their neighbours...and much more.

    Sadly, Americans no longer trust Americans. The first thing I did when I crossed the border was buy a gun at a flea market. Because of the conceal carry laws, the criminals know that cars with Canadian plates are unarmed, so I fixed that. Threw in a dumpster before crossing back into Canada.

    lol, it's the same as it ever was.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by JM01 View Post
    I just did a 20,000km road trip through 25 states, using secondary roads as much as possible...I've learned that America is a very different place from what it was 20 years ago. A very divided country based on religious and political ideology.

    snip..........
    I guess your mom never gave you the memo about not discussing politics and religion with strangers.

    If you are looking for trouble, you WILL find it.

    Bought a gun at a flee market and conceal carried? Humm... Really? The laws vary from state to state. Did you study the laws of each 25 states to see if you were in compliance? Probably committed a felony along the way. Post pictures or it didn't happen...

  100. #100
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    While i agree with some of your views, I'd have to say it's been longer than 20 years for the degradation.
    "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter", and with our countries relationship prior to 9/11 with this man, his family, and other similar groups on many different occasions it raises more question. How bout having Saudi Arabia raking in the $ for their elite super rich while the rest of the folks are starving in the desert having no benefit from their counties, regions, natural resources while they're propped up, made up by the UN government has all the protection they need provided by, you guessed it. Add insult to injury and their Mecca, the center of their religious world is in Saudi Arabia. Shall we discuss Israel?

    But you can't say you were surprised to find a changed America when it's obvious you had your mind made up before you got here since....
    Quote Originally Posted by JM01 View Post
    The first thing I did when I crossed the border was buy a gun at a flea market.
    Not to mention a bit hypocritical to say Americans live in fear.
    Round and round we go

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