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  1. #201
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    Sooo.... Does anyone else let loose beans when they ride over rocks? Oh... Whoops! I thought this was Passion.
    Ragley Blue Pig

  2. #202
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    Putting things into perspective, what would have happened if you switched roles? Let's say you were leading, and your GF washes out in the turn. You being the faster rider, are ahead and turn around to find the father of the kid coming hot into the turn. Let's say he tries bunnyhopping your gf, and clears it or doesn't clear it, regardless, wouldn't that have been pissed off and wanting to beat some ass anyways? I mean who dares compromise the safety of your loved one, right? In which case, isn't that pretty much the same reaction the dad has when he sees someone doing that to his kid?

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by wbmason55 View Post
    The shift key is used for capitalizing letters. The enter key is used to create paragraphs.
    There is also an excellent button up to the right, labeled "Log Out".

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by axe View Post
    there is also an excellent button up to the right, labeled "log out".
    lol.

  5. #205
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    If she fell in the turn like that I'd have said watch out and come forward a few feet and get to the side. If she couldn't get up, I'd be there in a split second because I'd be under the assumption that she was pretty hurt. Would I just let her lay there? No. Would I blame the guy who runs into her in a blind turn I just took, no. Well unless he acted like an ******* after the fact, which I didn't do, the father did. So, with the shoe on the other foot, no. I saw no excuse to be that far away from a child that small.

  6. #206
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    bunny hopping is a valuable skill for getting over people-sized obstacles.... obviously, children are easier to get over than adults, as evidenced by this awesome video. I think the OP is lucky the kid didnt get up and throw his bike at him.

    <object width='500' height='333'><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true' /><param name='allowScriptAccess' value='always' /><param name='movie' value='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/159119/l/' /><embed src='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/159119/l/' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='500' height='333' allowFullScreen='true' allowScriptAccess='always'></embed></object><p><a href='http://www.pinkbike.com/video/159119/'>fender bender freakout!!!</a> on <a href='http://www.pinkbike.com'>Pinkbike</a></p>

  7. #207
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    I can see myself laughing and riding off in that video. What a load of shiit
    Ragley Blue Pig

  8. #208
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    There was no child, and no bunny hop.

    What a load of ****ing bollocks.

  9. #209
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    I wonder if the OP wears a full face and armor like the wizbangs in the vid, cuz they're so sending it... (love that vid)
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tubbsy View Post
    There was no child, and no bunny hop.

    What a load of ****ing bollocks.
    You think so? It seems legit. He's hinging his whole (see what I did there?) argument for his ass hattery on the fact that the father was a whole 20' away from the kid and that if the father had been closer, he wouldn't have had to bunny hop the kid. Pretty adamant on this.
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  11. #211
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    I am of the opinion that any self respecting father, if witness to such an act of stupidity would have covered the twenty feet in such a timely manner and administered an ass whooping of epic proportions never witnessed before.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    I am of the opinion that any self respecting father, if witness to such an act of stupidity would have covered the twenty feet in such a timely manner and administered an ass whooping of epic proportions never witnessed before.
    Ha,ha .....
    Alright so I have skimmed by this thread numerous times in the last 5 day's without opening it. Apparently the title didn't appeal to me enough to peak my interest. Looks like missed another flame on flame off of a thread.
    Really! you actually bunny hopped the kid and kept right on riding, as the father screamed at you. You should of at least stopped and talked it out with the dude. Hey it was mostly his fault for placing his kid in harms way. But even so a gesture of stopping and making sure he was alright and then explaining how dangerous trails are with blind corners and young kids.
    This action may have helped in keeping one more person from turning sour towards our sport.
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 07-21-2012 at 09:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  13. #213
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    cool starry bra

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP0323 View Post
    COOL STORY BRO
    for next time

    Last edited by J:; 07-21-2012 at 11:14 AM.

  14. #214
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    Running over kids is not cool...
    Hopping over them is.

    Pulling off a tailwhip while jumping them is even better.
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  15. #215
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    ou2mame, judging from some of your posts I donít think you quite have the meaning of empathy right. Empathy refers to the ability to realize and understand how another person is feeling, even if that person doesnít say anything to you. Imagine for a moment that you where the childís father and you just witnessed somebody ďbarreling down the trailĒ around a blind turn, unable to stop, but instead bunnyhopped your child. Most people would agree that would be a horrific sight, even with a successfully executed bunnyhop. Wouldnít you have a mixture of emotions that would include fear, anger, and astonishment among others in a situation like that?

    If it were me who happened to be in your situation and bunnyhopped a kid lying in the trail I would have been totally freaked out and incredibly apologetic. Even if I had bunnyhopped the kid, that is just an unacceptably close call. Your cavalier attitude towards a situation that could have turned out much, much worse is difficult for me as well as others to comprehend. You seem to be completely oblivious as to the gravity of this situation and how the father must have been feeling.

    At the end of the day itís everybodyís responsibility to ride in control. I like to ride fast and aggressive - both uphill and down. However when circumstances dictate, such as coming to a blind corner I slow down a bit, apply a little braking action to control my speed. You should never assume that a blind corner is clear, even if you never see people there because one of these days there could be somebody there, just like what you witnessed.

    Thankfully you didnít hit the child this time but if you have to rely on a bunnyhop to miss somebody or something lying in the trail, then youíre going way too fast.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwbikur View Post
    oblivious as to the gravity of this situation
    actually i dont think the op understands gravity in general.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE, View Post
    Hey it was mostly his fault for placing his kid in harms way.

    No, it was not. Irresponsible morons are at fault, not a father taking his son outdoors.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    No, it was not. Irresponsible morons are at fault, not a father taking his son outdoors.
    Hey I agree the irresponsible morons bombing down a blind cornered single track are 1/2 the problem. But the other 1/2 of the problem is a father who is clueless enough to put his 5 year old (not much bigger than a toddler) in harms way. Letting the kid fall in the middle of a blind corner well traveled single track. Without going up trail to warn others. The father is at much fault as the morans bombing with no reguard for others. I am all for a father getting the kid out to enjoy the outdoors but also be a responsible parent and control the kid.
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 07-22-2012 at 12:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  19. #219
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    funny how the kid has now shrunk to a toddler.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    funny how the kid has now shrunk to a toddler.
    Ha,ha good call... Fixed it for ya.
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  21. #221
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    That video is priceless!!! that chick is a f*@king retard.... She slams on her brakes and then takes a MINOR fall wearing full star wars storm trooper battle gear and she acts like she's been shot...

    Whoever called laughing and riding off i agree....

    As for bunny hoping over kids, bad move, don't do it again and move on.
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  22. #222
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    How do we know if the kid had just fallen down and the dad had just noticed him and was turning around to help? When I road with my kids I was at least 20í in front of them. I was more worried about the riders coming at us not the ones coming up from behind.

    Some of you are assuming that just because the kid is laying on the ground and only 5 years old that he canít ride and the dad should be holding his hand.
    Hereís a photo of a friend of mine when he was 5 and Iíll bet his dad rode more than 20í in front of him.

    Any way Iím just saying, some kids at 5 years old are very good riders (I see them on our trails all the time) and some like my friend could probably bunny hop over the OP.

    <a href="http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/chuckspartz/?action=view&amp;current=Screenshot2012-07-22at123914PM.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/chuckspartz/Screenshot2012-07-22at123914PM.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
    Last edited by Rock dude; 07-22-2012 at 01:10 PM.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock dude View Post
    How do we know if the kid had just fallen down and the dad had just noticed him and was turning around to help? When I road with my kids I was at least 20í in front of them. I was more worried about the riders coming at us not the ones coming up from behind.

    Some of you are assuming that just because the kid is laying on the ground and only 5 years old that he canít ride and the dad should be holding his hand.
    Hereís a photo of a friend of mine when he was 5 and Iíll bet his dad rode more than 20í in front of him.

    Any way Iím just saying, some kids at 5 years old are very good riders (I see them on our trails all the time) and some like my friend could probably bunny hop over the OP.

    <a href="http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/chuckspartz/?action=view&amp;current=Screenshot2012-07-22at123914PM.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb68/chuckspartz/Screenshot2012-07-22at123914PM.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
    Who said anything about the kid being a bad rider. The kid was down we know nothing of his riding skills. If the kid was a good rider he would have known enough to pick his ass up and move off the trail. If he was a beginner rider his dad should know enough to stay close enough to him in case of a wipe out. He could then get him off the trail. I know first hand of young kids being good riders. I have two nieces and a nephew who grew up in a MTB race family. They are all accomplished riders. And all were riding clipless pedals at age 6 which amazed the hell out of me. The oldest girl who is seventeen now has numerous BMX trophies from 5-9 years old. At age 7 she was competing against the boys in her age group. Hey some kids can rock it. It all depends on what they are exposed to from an early age.
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  24. #224
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    For those that do not bike while carrying a slide rule or struggle with algebra, at 10 MPH, you cover 14.7 feet per second. So, if the dad was 20 feet away, we are talking about a little over a second (1.4 seconds for those that need a little more precision) to cover 20 feet. At 5 MPH, we are still under 3 seconds. Considering the dad was riding in front with a little gap (5-10 feet or 1 - 2 bike lengths at a minimum), where exactly would you expect to see him if an accident occurred? 20 feet up the trail would be really a minimum distance.

    Take away point 1: If the kid crashed and the dad was 20 feet away when he was stopped, we are honestly talking about 1-3 seconds of riding to cover this distance.

    Take away point 2: If the kid had crashed and the dad rode for 1-3 seconds to stop when the bunny hop bandit barreled into the scene, I would cut the kids some slack for still being in the trail. I know that I don't spring up instantly and I know that I have to get up quickly. A 5 year old doesn't understand this at all. Again, we might only have been talking about 3 seconds. Even if we are talking about 10 - 30 seconds, there could be a bit of shock and adjustment to the situation.

    Take away point 3: Accidents happen. Sometimes there is collateral damage (ever see the Tour de France?), so ride under control.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    For those that do not bike while carrying a slide rule or struggle with algebra, at 10 MPH, you cover 14.7 feet per second. So, if the dad was 20 feet away, we are talking about a little over a second (1.4 seconds for those that need a little more precision) to cover 20 feet. At 5 MPH, we are still under 3 seconds. Considering the dad was riding in front with a little gap (5-10 feet or 1 - 2 bike lengths at a minimum), where exactly would you expect to see him if an accident occurred? 20 feet up the trail would be really a minimum distance.

    Take away point 1: If the kid crashed and the dad was 20 feet away when he was stopped, we are honestly talking about 1-3 seconds of riding to cover this distance.

    Take away point 2: If the kid had crashed and the dad rode for 1-3 seconds to stop when the bunny hop bandit barreled into the scene, I would cut the kids some slack for still being in the trail. I know that I don't spring up instantly and I know that I have to get up quickly. A 5 year old doesn't understand this at all. Again, we might only have been talking about 3 seconds. Even if we are talking about 10 - 30 seconds, there could be a bit of shock and adjustment to the situation.

    Take away point 3: Accidents happen. Sometimes there is collateral damage (ever see the Tour de France?), so ride under control.
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  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    For those that do not bike while carrying a slide rule or struggle with algebra, at 10 MPH, you cover 14.7 feet per second. So, if the dad was 20 feet away, we are talking about a little over a second (1.4 seconds for those that need a little more precision) to cover 20 feet. At 5 MPH, we are still under 3 seconds. Considering the dad was riding in front with a little gap (5-10 feet or 1 - 2 bike lengths at a minimum), where exactly would you expect to see him if an accident occurred? 20 feet up the trail would be really a minimum distance.

    Take away point 1: If the kid crashed and the dad was 20 feet away when he was stopped, we are honestly talking about 1-3 seconds of riding to cover this distance.

    Take away point 2: If the kid had crashed and the dad rode for 1-3 seconds to stop when the bunny hop bandit barreled into the scene, I would cut the kids some slack for still being in the trail. I know that I don't spring up instantly and I know that I have to get up quickly. A 5 year old doesn't understand this at all. Again, we might only have been talking about 3 seconds. Even if we are talking about 10 - 30 seconds, there could be a bit of shock and adjustment to the situation.

    Take away point 3: Accidents happen. Sometimes there is collateral damage (ever see the Tour de France?), so ride under control.

    Completely irrelevant numbers. If there is any obstacle on the trail, no matter how and when it appeared there, one should be able to stop after noticing it. If you can't stop or can't notice, you must ride slower, until you can. End of story.

  27. #227
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    these were seriously like 13" wheels. the kid was very young, and shouldn't have been on that trail, obviously, because of its steep decline, and roots and whatnot, shown by the fact that he was on the ground. if the father really wanted to take him down that trail, he should have been behind him. its like he had just taken the training wheels off and went oh hey this is a good idea....well, it wasn't.

  28. #228
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    You do the math.
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 07-23-2012 at 11:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  29. #229
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    Ok you jumped him, good that's cool, at least you didn't run into him. But to brag about riding out of your ability to the point where you're not safe around others just makes you look foolish, not to mention what you do to the reputation of your fellow mtbers. Whether you think, or they really are too young has nothing to do with it. FYI, there's no age or size limit on trails, and it's not up to you to decide who's ready for what trails. As a matter of fact he's probably lucky he was so small other wise you may not have cleared him.
    Unfortuately some people have to learn the hard way, or be taught a lesson. Whether it's learning to stay off the trail on blind spots, or traveling too fast around them. He was a little kid, what's your excuse? Seems that you didn't learn anything other than some skills on how to win a retard contest on the interwebz, since just about everyone here agrees and is asking you to be more respectful of others safety, yet you continue. It's ok to be wrong as long as you realize it. Just means that now you have a better understanding.
    A fool makes the same mistakes over and over. A smart person learns from their own mistakes. But a genius learns from others. Where do you fit in to that?
    Last edited by theMeat; 07-23-2012 at 07:31 AM.
    Round and round we go

  30. #230
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    i'm having a hard time understanding what i did wrong. it was more of a freak accident, caused by the negligence of a parent. do you slow down while going downhill on every turn? i could see over the shrubs on that turn and saw the father further ahead. i planned on clearing the turn, then slowing down. i was also spending a few milliseconds trying to calculate how fast he was going, so i knew how quickly i had to stop once around the turn. this is all while going through the turn, so this is all happening in a very short period of time. i look down, see the kid, jump, and slow down and look behind to make sure i cleared him. at the same time the father's standing on his bike off the seat yelling at me, like i've just done something wrong.

    again, i can understand how this guy is angry at me, but it was HIS negligence that caused the incident. if your kid is that small, make sure he's in front of you so that a rider that does come up won't run into him, they'll run into you... you're the father, bigger, badder, angrier, braver, etc... thats your job. you don't however, let your kid lay on the ground in a turn. this wouldn't have happened if the father was more interested in his son and less interested in his own riding. he was far enough away to be of no use if something happened, esp like what happened. if you want me to say that i'm sorry, that i did something wrong, sure... tell me exactly what it was. i was going too fast downhill... on a trail. a one way trail. while observing ahead of me. who the hell prepares to see a child laying on the ground around a bend. do you ride your brakes downhill? if i was going slower, i wouldn't have had the speed to clear him, but i probably would have hit him. if i ditched into the woods, the bike would have come out and hit him because the trail is sided on both sides with very dense shrub.

    i'm not learning to ride slow. so that lesson's out the window. you people want to bash me and act like i'm out there looking for trouble, thats your thing say whatever you want. i haven't insulted anybody, i'm not bashing anybody's character... but i find it funny that the majority of people who think they're right about a situation that they weren't involved in have to make assumptions about me and my character to prove it.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    i'm having a hard time understanding what i did wrong. it was more of a freak accident, caused by the negligence of a parent. do you slow down while going downhill on every turn? i could see over the shrubs on that turn and saw the father further ahead. i planned on clearing the turn, then slowing down. i was also spending a few milliseconds trying to calculate how fast he was going, so i knew how quickly i had to stop once around the turn. this is all while going through the turn, so this is all happening in a very short period of time. i look down, see the kid, jump, and slow down and look behind to make sure i cleared him. at the same time the father's standing on his bike off the seat yelling at me, like i've just done something wrong.

    again, i can understand how this guy is angry at me, but it was HIS negligence that caused the incident. if your kid is that small, make sure he's in front of you so that a rider that does come up won't run into him, they'll run into you... you're the father, bigger, badder, angrier, braver, etc... thats your job. you don't however, let your kid lay on the ground in a turn. this wouldn't have happened if the father was more interested in his son and less interested in his own riding. he was far enough away to be of no use if something happened, esp like what happened. if you want me to say that i'm sorry, that i did something wrong, sure... tell me exactly what it was. i was going too fast downhill... on a trail. a one way trail. while observing ahead of me. who the hell prepares to see a child laying on the ground around a bend. do you ride your brakes downhill? if i was going slower, i wouldn't have had the speed to clear him, but i probably would have hit him. if i ditched into the woods, the bike would have come out and hit him because the trail is sided on both sides with very dense shrub.

    i'm not learning to ride slow. so that lesson's out the window. you people want to bash me and act like i'm out there looking for trouble, thats your thing say whatever you want. i haven't insulted anybody, i'm not bashing anybody's character... but i find it funny that the majority of people who think they're right about a situation that they weren't involved in have to make assumptions about me and my character to prove it.



    I think that there is alot of "jumping to conclusions on alot of our parts.I also think this all could have been avoided had you been carrying a Slide Rule in your Camelbak. I know for me after reading this thread a Slide Rule is a definate addition to my Camelbak.

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpinDirt View Post
    I think that there is alot of "jumping to conclusions on alot of our parts.I also think this all could have been avoided had you been carrying a Slide Rule in your Camelbak. I know for me after reading this thread a Slide Rule is a definate addition to my Camelbak.
    i actually have an app that does measurements for me. i'm always on the trail, calculating trail measurements before even attempting. first i do a run through nice and slow, taking notes of every turn, and every possible point that a child could be fallen at.. sometimes i even bring my friends kid and just drag him behind the bike in a trailer, not strapped in of course...and when he falls out, i put a bow on a nearby tree to mark a place where an unbuckled child may fall out of a trailer.. because you never know.

  33. #233
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    Well you know, I've ridden with all sorts of kids on the road and single track. When I am alone with them, I'm in front to be in a position to guide them and control the speed. Being in front also protects me since little squirts can be unpredictable. It is also unnerving to have someone sucking wheel on a trail. When there are two or more adults, we will run a sweeper.

    Accidents do happen. The father did nothing wrong. He signaled to you that a rider was down--age and size are irrelevant. What did you do wrong? You should have slowed with his verbal warning. You should have slowed to the point to ask if they needed help after barreling through the scene. Should the bunny hop been unavoidable, you should have stopped to apologize and say you felt that was the only option. Asking if they need help only takes a second.

    Enough has been said already and I'm moving on now so that I can pack my slide rule for my next ride.
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  34. #234
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    I would have ran the kid over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AC/BC View Post
    I would have run the kid over.
    fixed

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    i actually have an app that does measurements for me. i'm always on the trail, calculating trail measurements before even attempting. first i do a run through nice and slow, taking notes of every turn, and every possible point that a child could be fallen at sometimes i even bring my friends kid and just drag him behind the bike in a trailer, not strapped in of course...and when he falls out, i put a bow on a nearby tree to mark a place where an unbuckled child may fall out of a trailer.. because you never know.
    No you just go fast enough to not be able to stop if you see a kid on the ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    i'm having a hard time understanding what i did wrong. it was more of a freak accident, caused by the negligence of a parent.
    Lets see what you did wrong.

    You were riding too fast.

    You are very lucky that you did not cause serious injury to another person.

    Child or not.

    If you can't ride in control, don't ride.

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    again, i can understand how this guy is angry at me, but it was HIS negligence that caused the incident.
    You clearly believe in your point of view, which is fine, I suppose -- it is common for people to blame others for their minor infractions, while the person's own behavior is the principal cause of the harm. There are many ways to analyze any case.

    But let's put it this way. Say you were going fast, in a rush to find your GF, admittedly not paying full attention to the trail, couldn't stop when you saw the kid down, and harmed the kid. Say the kid sued you in a court of law under negligence theory. I'd take the kid's case to a jury any day of the week. You may think you were right, but I'd wager a jury wouldn't agree with you.
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  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    these were seriously like 13" wheels. the kid was very young, and shouldn't have been on that trail, obviously, because of its steep decline, and roots and whatnot, shown by the fact that he was on the ground. if the father really wanted to take him down that trail, he should have been behind him. its like he had just taken the training wheels off and went oh hey this is a good idea....well, it wasn't.
    Look just change the kid to an adult with a broken leg.....and you were going to fast so you had to jump him....

    The issue is totally that you were riding too fast and out of control.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    For those that do not bike while carrying a slide rule or struggle with algebra, at 10 MPH, you cover 14.7 feet per second. So, if the dad was 20 feet away, we are talking about a little over a second (1.4 seconds for those that need a little more precision) to cover 20 feet. At 5 MPH, we are still under 3 seconds. Considering the dad was riding in front with a little gap (5-10 feet or 1 - 2 bike lengths at a minimum), where exactly would you expect to see him if an accident occurred? 20 feet up the trail would be really a minimum distance.

    Take away point 1: If the kid crashed and the dad was 20 feet away when he was stopped, we are honestly talking about 1-3 seconds of riding to cover this distance.

    Take away point 2: If the kid had crashed and the dad rode for 1-3 seconds to stop when the bunny hop bandit barreled into the scene, I would cut the kids some slack for still being in the trail. I know that I don't spring up instantly and I know that I have to get up quickly. A 5 year old doesn't understand this at all. Again, we might only have been talking about 3 seconds. Even if we are talking about 10 - 30 seconds, there could be a bit of shock and adjustment to the situation.

    Take away point 3: Accidents happen. Sometimes there is collateral damage (ever see the Tour de France?), so ride under control.
    So let me get this straight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  41. #241
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    After spending some time with this thread, I sympathize with the OP. If he was going slow enough that he could perform a 6 inch (or so) bunny hop over the leg of a kid (or something like that) he probably was going slow enough for the terrain. Or, as slow as most riders I know would be going. This is why I yell and scream and make monkey noises every time I go around a blind corner so this way any rider coming the other way knows I'm there.

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhasdrums View Post
    This is why I yell and scream and make monkey noises every time I go around a blind corner so this way any rider coming the other way knows I'm there.
    My trick on a blind corner on one of my trails is to whistle like I'm calling my dog. I figure that's more likely to slow an oncoming rider down (based on threads I've read here I figure he has to slow down to get his pepper spray, gun, and kicking shoes ready).
    Warning: may contain sarcasm and/or crap made up in an attempt to feel important.

  43. #243
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    Regardless of whether you were right or wrong, I think hopping over a kid shows great control. How many people can easily hop over a log at speed? I ride with some very skilled folks that still let the rear of the bike take some impact when approaching logs. Completely clearing a kid shows great control. Yes, you may have been going a bit fast, but it is mountain biking. I assume the trail is multiuse so everybody (fathers and sons included) should be prepared for others on the trail.
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  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott View Post
    Look just change the kid to an adult with a broken leg.....and you were going to fast so you had to jump him....

    The issue is totally that you were riding too fast and out of control.
    Precisely. The point isn't whether or not the kid should have been there because it could have been any obstacle, be it another person or something else. It's every rider's responsibility to ride in control.

  45. #245
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    i was born in 81 so bmx was pretty much inevitable for me in the 90s. but i switched to mountain biking about 10 years ago. i can control a bike, i've been on one for 25 years. i don't think it has anything to do with my speed, because i wasn't going extremely fast. the father didn't signal anything to me. didn't wave his arms, nothing. he wasn't even looking at me i saw the back of his helmet. as soon as i saw him i prepared to slow down after the turn. i wasn't going to slow down in the turn. maybe i'm wrong.. maybe i should just ride with the expectation that children will me laying around the trail in various places hidden like easter eggs. but i'd really like to know this father's thought process bringing a kid with 13" wheels to a trail like that. he had another son with a 16" wheel bike as well, but that son was in front of him. i made sure i didn't hurt the kid, but the father was yelling and screaming so i wasn't going to stick around and ask if he needed help. i didn't want to instigate a situation between me and an irate person, in front of their children. my philosophy is, i'm not going to offer people help when they are threatening bodily harm. maybe i'm a ****** bag, but that's just my thing. if you want to be a dick, you don't deserve my help. but if you guys with your children and big muscles who will beat me up if you lay your children around the trail do go out with your kids and your kids do fall, just drag them to the side or something, or throw their bike around the turn before it comes up so people know something's going on. don't just stand there like an idiot acting all surprised that there's other people in this world.

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhasdrums View Post
    This is why I use high volume tires. I roll over kids without even feeling a bump.
    OMG Great!

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    Let it die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    i was born in 81 so bmx was pretty much inevitable for me in the 90sSo what. but i switched to mountain biking about 10 years ago. i can control a bike,Not if you are riding too fast i've been on one for 25 years. i don't think it has anything to do with my speed, because i wasn't going extremely fastBS then you should have stopped. the father didn't signal anything to me[COLOR="red"]So what/COLOR]. didn't wave his arms, nothing. he wasn't even looking at me i saw the back of his helmet. as soon as i saw him i prepared to slow down after the turn. i wasn't going to slow down in the turn. maybe i'm wrong.. maybe i should just ride with the expectation that children will me laying around the trail in various places hidden like easter eggs.Bingo or perhaps any person down on a trail for any reason but i'd really like to know this father's thought process bringing a kid with 13" wheels to a trail like that. he had another son with a 16" wheel bike as well, but that son was in front of him. i made sure i didn't hurt the kid, but the father was yelling and screaming so i wasn't going to stick around and ask if he needed help. i didn't want to instigate a situation between me and an irate person, in front of their children. my philosophy is, i'm not going to offer people help when they are threatening bodily harm. maybe i'm a ****** bag, but that's just my thing. if you want to be a dick, you don't deserve my help. but if you guys with your children and big muscles who will beat me up if you lay your children around the trail do go out with your kids and your kids do fall, just drag them to the side or something, or throw their bike around the turn before it comes up so people know something's going on. don't just stand there like an idiot acting all surprised that there's other people in this world.
    Your fault for not riding in control Totally.

    If you want to ride out of control you need to have a closed course with people checking i out all the way down...

    Otherwise RIDE in CONTROL so that you can stop in an emergency.

    You were going way too fast.

  49. #249
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    Yea going to fast for the situation, everyone need to whistle or bell chime around blind corners if you're not going to ride them slow. I love to ride the trails fast esp the corners, but I still follow safety thinking.

  50. #250
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    what still cracks me up is the op tries to come off all badass and gnarly saying he was hauling down a tough technical trail yet a little kid on a bike with tiny wheels was going up that same trail. and he was a ways in so obviously he was hacking it ok. so i pose the question to you op, superhuman 5 year old or do you just suck?

  51. #251
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    OP is this the bike you jumped the kid with? I found it in another thread you posted in.

    Hes probably terrified of the color blue now!

    Also!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails lol.. i jumped over a kid today-imag1674.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    LOL, someone do something with this gif.



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  53. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    what still cracks me up is the op tries to come off all badass and gnarly saying he was hauling down a tough technical trail yet a little kid on a bike with tiny wheels was going up that same trail. and he was a ways in so obviously he was hacking it ok. so i pose the question to you op, superhuman 5 year old or do you just suck?
    probably neither... i think there's a 3rd option there, but you're too dense to comprehend it. i'll spell it out for you. the kids didn't belong there. i mean, we can go with insulting me, or assuming that there are superhuman children who fall down a lot, but i'm gonna stick with the, they shouldn't have been there attitude. and i mean shouldn't not because they're kids, but because they are falling and laying around on the trails. to me thats dangerous.

  54. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    probably neither... i think there's a 3rd option there, but you're too dense to comprehend it. i'll spell it out for you. the kids didn't belong there.
    Shut up, you idiot. It is not for irresponsible asshats on Mountain Dew like youself to decide where kids do or do not belong. Kids belong. Out of control idiots do not.

  55. #255
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    mountain dew? lol.. i don't drink soda. anyways, if there's 1 adult for 2 children, and the 1 adult can't control the 2 children, then he either needs one less child, or one more adult, or they all need to be in a place where he can watch over both of them at the same time. roots half the size of this kids 13" wheels, definitely belongs there....... no wonder he was laying on the ground, unsupervised.

  56. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    probably neither... i think there's a 3rd option there, but you're too dense to comprehend it. i'll spell it out for you. the kids didn't belong there. i mean, we can go with insulting me, or assuming that there are superhuman children who fall down a lot, but i'm gonna stick with the, they shouldn't have been there attitude. and i mean shouldn't not because they're kids, but because they are falling and laying around on the trails. to me thats dangerous.
    no, there really is not. either the kid was doing it or he wasnt. we know from you he was which leaves us with two possible results, it was a beginner trail you were going way too fast on or the kid is a mini mark weir. i think the first option is more likely.

    and what gives you the right to decide where people can and cant be?

  57. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    no, there really is not. either the kid was doing it or he wasnt. we know from you he was which leaves us with two possible results, it was a beginner trail you were going way too fast on or the kid is a mini mark weir. i think the first option is more likely.

    and what gives you the right to decide where people can and cant be?
    again, we know from me that all i know about the kid was that he was laying on the ground. was he "doing it"? how the hell should i know. all i know is that he was on the ground. we can insult me all day, i honestly don't care, but i will keep repeating myself. he was on the ground. "we" have no proof that he was doing anything, except falling. because that is all that "we" know.

  58. #258
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    5 year olds dont fall and get back up and fall again etc. they get fustrated and quit. you said yourself you were in the woods pretty deep so any semi logical person would say that kid was having pretty good success navagating those trails.

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    Hmmm...so like by your logic, the kid would just stay in the trails forever if they couldn't handle it, because if they are incapable of riding, they won't be there. So either they somehow magically leave the trail when they can't handle it, or....wait. no, they must somehow get out. Hmmmm.... How do they get out though. Do they ride? Walk? Fall? Who knows. I don't think that they stay there forever, and I don't believe in magic, so.....I don't get your point.

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    Plus, you're saying the kid was good at navigating the trails, because he was on the ground. As much as I enjoy stretched reasoning, that's just awesomely stupid.

  61. #261
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    you said you were heading out to find your girlfriend, the kid was in the opposing direction so obviously he was going deeper into the woods. even you should get that.

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    no, i didn't. i said that i went to find my gf, and took a trail to come up from behind her, which would put me going the right direction.

  63. #263
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    in your original post you said she got left behind but now you are trying to claim she was in front of you?

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    god you're blind. read the whole thread. if you don't want to, don't make assumptions. but don't tell me what i said, when you're just too lazy to read it. i went down the wrong way at first, didn't see her, took another trail to come back from behind her. if you're too lazy to read, don't bother to comment.

  65. #265
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    i read it, its just hard to follow because you keep switching up your story. having a hard time keeping your lies straight?

  66. #266
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    lies? the only thing i keep doing is adding more details because people keep making assumptions to further their points, which doesn't make any sense to me. if there's something that you don't understand about it, and your entire opinion is relying on the one thing that you don't understand, ask me. i'll totally tell you how it happened, or what piece of detail i'm leaving out.

    obviously you won't understand unless you were there, but nowhere have i said anything that wasn't true. i have only expanded on the details to help people gain some form of perspective. if you can't comprehend that, and you can't follow the details that i've provided in a fairly articulate way (minus the first post obviously because i was drunk), then there's nothing that i can do. we can't communicate any further. i do have an english degree, so i feel as though i can definitely present the details to a decent degree of proficiency.

  67. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    same story i was just drunk when i posted this thread. i have to keep saying what happened because everybody keeps putting words in my mouth, and every time i try to explain a little more clearly because it seems as though any detail that i leave out turns into an entire bashing point for me, so i'm just leaving every detail covered. take from it what you will... i still don't think i did anything wrong. i was going downhill on a technical trail, and had no idea i'd ever find a child laying in a turn. imagine you're riding down a trail you've been riding for years, a trail that you do probably 3 maybe 4x a week, and one day you go around a turn and there's a child just laying in the turn. do you blame yourself? what do you in that half a second, maybe 1 second... do you attempt to stop and skid into him? do you ride yourself into a tree head first, and still probably crush him after bouncing off? or do you attempt to jump over him. i mean, if you people think i should have skid into him, maybe i'll consider that next time.

    as for it being an easy trail, or me going too fast... its not easy, and i was going fast. everybody who's bashing me, you ride slow? how slow? 7mph? 4mph? all the time, you ride your brakes downhill? why do you even have a mountain bike at that point, you might as well get a hybrid if you're going to ride that slow.

    i was doing what we all do.... riding. i was mainly angry at the father, because like i said previously, he was way too far away from his kid to be concerned that his kid was laying on his back in a turn on a downhill trail, and he didn't seem to be making any attempt to correct this. like i said before... again, if it were my kid, i'd have pulled him further to the straight path after the turn in case somebody came down. its a tight trail, maybe 3' wide, no room to go around anybody, esp in that section. but whatever.. you're right. i'm an ******* because i was probably going too fast, and i should just ride my brakes down hills from now on. i'll have to get some more brake pads though.

    oh, and i wasn't showing off for my gf because i was going through the trail again to meet her from behind so she wasn't anywhere near me at that point. this trail was the quickest shot to get back to where she was.
    here's one point where i mention meeting her from behind, but i'm honestly not interested in finding another place where i mentioned it. but if you read, which you obviously haven't, you'd have read that.

  68. #268
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    trying to be tough on the internet is not for beginners. some people just cant make it.

  69. #269
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    So I guess you're bowing out of the conversation lol

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    So I guess you're bowing out of the conversation lol
    There is no conversation. We have tried to explain to you how hopelessly wrong you are, but most apparently it is not getting through.

  71. #271
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    Wooo! glad I didn't pass this up.It definately gave me some chuckles. Thanks folks.

    OP you should have posted this instead:

    So there I was heading to my favorite slice of downhill heaven when a shod horse slips in front of me on the asphalt bike path. I had just enough time to bunny hop my recumbent over the horse. While in the air I tailwhipped the rider to show him my disapproval for having to dodge the road apples. Besides it would give me additional Rep Power on MTBR for doing so. Now before you fire up the BBQ I realize there are holes in this story big enough to ride a Fat Tired Tandem through. Oh and I was drunk too.


    Yeah that should just about cover it.
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  72. #272
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    11 pages?!?! This thing is turning into Threadzilla. We need to start taking bets on when it gets closed or fades off the front page. Moderators aren't allowed to bet since they could obviously rig the whole thing (I bet the Moderators have their own pool going anyway).

    I'm gonna guess it'll go 16 pages...but it's tough...right when you think it's dying down someone could get offended and crank it all back up again. Then again if someone gets too upset and starts posting all kinds of heinous debauchery and foul-mouthedness the Mods might shut it down for that. It's a tougher call than I thought it would be due to the sheer array of variables that might affect the outcome...from who-woke-up-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-bed, to who's-the-guy-who-can't-let-it-go, etc.

    I guess 16 pages. Anyone else want in? The winner gets eternal bragging rights for being the "the guy who guessed how long that 'I jumped over a kid today' thread lasted". Or perhaps being known as the guy who guessed when Threadzilla would die. I dunno...but 16 pages is my guess...and i promise not to try to influence the outcome.

  73. #273
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    Originally Posted by ou2mame in the how Bike thieves should be punished thread:
    i had a guy steal my bike once.. i ran after him and grabbed the back wheel as hard as i could... he went right over the handlebars. then i kicked him in the face and stole his hat. i've had every bike i've owned stolen besides my current one, but it doesn't leave my sight.



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  74. #274
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    no why, is that in reference to something? we used to do that to each other in florida when i was a kid, still works as of 5 or so years ago.

  75. #275
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    muddytire, I will not take that bet. I did once and the Daily Spinzone thread at the ATV Connection still stands today with10,025 pages and 400,996 posts.
    With my goldfish shorts swimming around my toes.

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    no why, is that in reference to something? we used to do that to each other in florida when i was a kid, still works as of 5 or so years ago.
    Google Gecko45 and you'll understand, it's great reading if you have time.

    Seems like a dang good way to loose fingers. I'm kind of attached to mine.
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  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddytire View Post
    11 pages?!?! This thing is turning into Threadzilla. We need to start taking bets on when it gets closed or fades off the front page. Moderators aren't allowed to bet since they could obviously rig the whole thing (I bet the Moderators have their own pool going anyway).

    I'm gonna guess it'll go 16 pages...but it's tough...right when you think it's dying down someone could get offended and crank it all back up again. Then again if someone gets too upset and starts posting all kinds of heinous debauchery and foul-mouthedness the Mods might shut it down for that. It's a tougher call than I thought it would be due to the sheer array of variables that might affect the outcome...from who-woke-up-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-bed, to who's-the-guy-who-can't-let-it-go, etc.

    I guess 16 pages. Anyone else want in? The winner gets eternal bragging rights for being the "the guy who guessed how long that 'I jumped over a kid today' thread lasted". Or perhaps being known as the guy who guessed when Threadzilla would die. I dunno...but 16 pages is my guess...and i promise not to try to influence the outcome.
    This thread was destined to happen. Perhaps it almost didn't so skynet sent that child back from the future to that exact spot in the trail, laying on his friggin back like a turtle.

    I think we owe it to ourselves to keep it alive.

    Back to the OP (if you have any sense of objectivity left)

    Nobody is mad at you for avoiding an accident. Get over that point of view, that is not what this is about.

    Some here think you were being reckless/careless/whatever.

    Others think you are bragging (and exaggerating) about a really lame story.

    Just sit back, take your story and replace the words "jumped over" with "ran into". Because lets face it, no matter how many ways you want to argue it, you were lucky it turned out the way it did (with you being the only one loling).

    And this spin about how if you would have tried to avoid him, the bike may have bounced back and hit him anyway..... ummmm, yeah, good luck with that theory.
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Six Pack View Post
    Some here think you were being reckless/careless/whatever.

    Others think you are bragging (and exaggerating) about a really lame story.
    By this time in the thread I am thinking he is a full grown imbecile.

    I wonder who repped him back into green? Train wreck gawking aficionados?

  79. #279
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    probably the same dude who negged me.

    and btw op, i went for a bike ride. i do that sometimes.

  80. #280
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    The story of the event has been a little hard to follow. Fortunately, I was able to hack into the trail camera to discover an original filming of the event. This should help everyone make sense of what happened. As you can see from the footage, the OP has some mad bunny hop skills. Clearly, he is under control and it is time to move on.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  81. #281
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    oh man, i tried to give you rep but i guess i need to spread some around. simply epic.

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    The story of the event has been a little hard to follow. Fortunately, I was able to hack into the trail camera to discover an original filming of the event. This should help everyone make sense of what happened. As you can see from the footage, the OP has some mad bunny hop skills. Clearly, he is under control and it is time to move on.
    that totally happened

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    The story of the event has been a little hard to follow. Fortunately, I was able to hack into the trail camera to discover an original filming of the event. This should help everyone make sense of what happened. As you can see from the footage, the OP has some mad bunny hop skills. Clearly, he is under control and it is time to move on.

    That kid isn't even wearing a helmet!!! Where's that sorry excuse for a father?!?!

    Awesome gif, BTW.

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyyall View Post
    The story of the event has been a little hard to follow. Fortunately, I was able to hack into the trail camera to discover an original filming of the event. This should help everyone make sense of what happened. As you can see from the footage, the OP has some mad bunny hop skills. Clearly, he is under control and it is time to move on.
    Thank you for clarifying. I was wondering if the OP made up some story because the real hopping was something the little kid was doing with the lost girl friend.

  85. #285
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    Couldn't find ouiouiuoii vid.... this will have to do

    ...

  86. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by marpilli View Post
    That kid isn't even wearing a helmet!!! Where's that sorry excuse for a father?!?!
    He is at the lawyer's office where he is doing some paper work. If we want to talk to helmet safety, look what happened to the 5 year old riding the 13 inch wheels here:
    Avoiding Bike Injuries & Legal Liability at Intersections: Right of Way at Unmarked Intersections - Missouri Injury Law Blog

    (link is here just to quote the source...I don't want the lawyers chasing me down! I did mop up the blood pool for MTBR)

  87. #287
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    2010 Giant Yukon FX
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  88. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    lies? the only thing i keep doing is adding more details because people keep making assumptions to further their points, which doesn't make any sense to me. if there's something that you don't understand about it, and your entire opinion is relying on the one thing that you don't understand, ask me. i'll totally tell you how it happened, or what piece of detail i'm leaving out.

    obviously you won't understand unless you were there, but nowhere have i said anything that wasn't true. i have only expanded on the details to help people gain some form of perspective. if you can't comprehend that, and you can't follow the details that i've provided in a fairly articulate way (minus the first post obviously because i was drunk), then there's nothing that i can do. we can't communicate any further. i do have an english degree, so i feel as though i can definitely present the details to a decent degree of proficiency.
    Really?

  89. #289
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    LOL @ your negative ding note "Right back at ya...... BRO". CrowSD.

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Really? Oh, and if I would have even considered wasting my time to guide my mouse over to the left to "Neg Rep You" I would have signed.
    Too funny!




    Quote Originally Posted by CrowSD View Post
    Agreed.

    If I red dot someone I will sign it.

    So who is the "ball-less sac of shiite" that dinged me without signing??

  90. #290
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    Okay, granted I'm rather new to the MTB scene, but in all the videos I've seen, riders are barreling madly down technical trails with insane wild switchbacks. Isn't this the point of having these trails? Now, I can understand a parent wanting to introduce thier child to a sport that they enjoy, but it also occures to me, that if you are going to take a 5 year old on these technical trails, that some sort of safety measures might be taken. For instance, another rider trailing behind warning riders that there was a child ahead, or take the child on trails that are designed for thier age group. After all, you wouldn't make a child a linebacker on an NFL team.


    Roy

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    you're new, and rational. thats awesome

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDelver View Post
    Okay, granted I'm rather new to the MTB scene, but in all the videos I've seen, riders are barreling madly down technical trails with insane wild switchbacks. Isn't this the point of having these trails?
    There is one rule - do not ride faster than you can see. If you are not following that, you will not be on the MTB scene for too long before requiring medical care - or injuring some innocent child.

    Everybody has a right to be on the trail, children, pets, logs and rocks, hacking kitties and rabbits with pancakes on their head. You MUST be able to stop in time. No ifs, or buts, or questions.

    Shifting blame to the family in this sorry story is utterly asinine.

    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    you're new, and rational. thats awesome
    Whether he is your sock puppet or not, he is just as wrong as you are.

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    By this time in the thread I am thinking he is a full grown imbecile.

    I wonder who repped him back into green? Train wreck gawking aficionados?
    It was me. From another thread. Certainly not this one. This one is a clown act from post #1. I have given a few positive reps, no negative reps so far. The OP deserves his deserts from the title of this thread alone.

  94. #294
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    i love how people on here are so willing to admit that they have never entered a turn at a pace faster than a crawl.

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    Axe

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    There is one rule - do not ride faster than you can see. If you are not following that, you will not be on the MTB scene for too long before requiring medical care - or injuring some innocent child.

    Shifting blame to the family in this sorry story is utterly asinine.
    Axe,
    Accidents happen, even in not so extreme biking. Didn't a gold medalist recently get seriously injured during the "Tour de France"? With all the loose gravel, rocks, roots, I can't imagine anyone stopping on a dime if they are doing anything more than 3MPH on a down hill.

    Ultimately, it is the parents who are responcible for thier childs safety, wether its what they are doing on the internet, seeing on TV, or the friends they hang around. Face it, parents today rarely consider the safety of thier child. How many have been backed over by thier own parents? Left in a running car to die of heat exposer or get kidnapped?

    Personally, I would have stopped and helped the child get to safety, apologized, then suggested that the parent follow behind the child to act as rear gaurd.

    As a vet who has made split second decisions in combat, this rider did the only thing he thought he could, and the fact that the child was NOT injured says alot about his skill as a rider. Woulda, shoulda, coulda, whatifs aside, the bottom line is the child is safe.


    Roy

  96. #296
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    Hucking Kitty owned that stupid kid.

  97. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by ou2mame View Post
    i love how people on here are so willing to admit that they have never entered a turn at a pace faster than a crawl.
    You really do not get the difference between speed and line of sight? Really?

  98. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDelver View Post
    Axe,
    Accidents happen, even in not so extreme biking. Didn't a gold medalist recently get seriously injured during the "Tour de France"? With all the loose gravel, rocks, roots, I can't imagine anyone stopping on a dime if they are doing anything more than 3MPH on a down hill.
    If you see further then a dime, you do not need to stop on a dime. If you do not see further then a dime, you better be able to stop.

    Whatever speed is necessary not to run into somebody on the trail - that's what you should be going. It could be 2mph, it could be 50mph.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadDelver View Post
    Ultimately, it is the parents who are responcible for thier childs safety, wether its what they are doing on the internet, seeing on TV, or the friends they hang around. Face it, parents today rarely consider the safety of thier child. How many have been backed over by thier own parents? Left in a running car to die of heat exposer or get kidnapped?
    Taking your child on a trail is responsible parenting. It is not normal to expect out of control idiots barreling down it, unless it is a resort. And even at a DH resorts people see where they are going.


    Quote Originally Posted by MadDelver View Post
    Woulda, shoulda, coulda, whatifs aside, the bottom line is the child is safe.
    By that logic one must keep their children at home, feeding cookies to them. Bollocks.

    Taking a child to a trail is safe and responsible. The fact that the OP nearly injured a child is 110% his fault, not a shade of doubt about it.

  99. #299
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    Logic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    .

    By that logic one must keep their children at home, feeding cookies to them. Bollocks.
    I do not understand how you came to that conclusion. Taking a child out to particpate in a healthy sport is a good idea, if you had read my entire post, you would know that I was not trying to discourage that. Keeping them home and feeding them cookies, on the other hand, would be rather unhealthy for the child if over done.


    Roy

    PS~What do the little green and red rep things mean?

  100. #300
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    Wow, 4 posts and already into the drama.
    Round and round we go

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