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  1. #1
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    Just got my Phil

    Sorry guys. Nothing to see here.
    Last edited by suba; 05-14-2011 at 07:47 PM.

  2. #2
    will rant for food
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    Now there is a utilitarian machine.

  3. #3
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    Sorry guys no comment
    Last edited by suba; 05-14-2011 at 07:32 PM.

  4. #4
    will rant for food
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    Oh yes. I meant it fully as a compliment. That bike has "everything" without looking awkward. Even the cable routing is thought out.

  5. #5
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    woah, get you some. i am so switching to them bars not that i have a shoulder injury.
    2013 mongoose Fat bike
    2012 Moonlander.

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  6. #6
    Lighten up.
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    Great lookin' setup, Suba.

  7. #7
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    Nice looking Pug,
    plan it...build it....ride it...love it....
    http://coastkid.blogspot.com/

  8. #8
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    NIce

    Yea, I echo the comments of all the others here. Phil Wood defines quality for sure. I just got in a wheel set made up with his hubs and they are beautiful.

  9. #9
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    Sorry guys, no comment
    Last edited by suba; 05-14-2011 at 07:31 PM.

  10. #10
    Full Tilt Boogie
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    Got me one of them in blue with the rear to match. Seriously nice stuff.

    If I may make a suggestion, throw some Rolling Darryls on there if you're light on stuff. That much lighter rims make a shocking difference in how the bike would ride.

    Love the bike in every way.
    I sell bikes here. Check out the Blog here. Facebook.

  11. #11
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    The Sapim Strong spokes are my favorite by far, when lightest weight isn't the biggest factor.

    Nice bike! I still have fat bike envy, I am working on getting one in my stable soon enough.
    owner, Holmes Bikes

  12. #12
    Saluki68
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    Nice setup. What are the bars on your bike?

  13. #13
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    Jones Ti Loop bars. Great bars! I have the AL ones on my Fatback and am hooked on the riding position. I am switching my commuter/tourer over to loops as soon as the Ti ones are available again and I even dug up some On One Mary bars for my 3 speed to get a similar hand position on that bike. Cool steup suba...and understated quality is always a good thing!

  14. #14
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    Love those brakes!! Gustav M??

  15. #15
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    Sorry guys, no comment
    Last edited by suba; 05-14-2011 at 07:34 PM.

  16. #16
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    If bikes were intergalactic battleships, this is what they'd look like. Does that make sense? Doesn't matter: you have one amazing machine, sir

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba
    Thanks guys for you're comments. Drew...I understood what you meant. That was a nice compliment, and very observant of you to notice my cable routing I didn't post my pictures to show off, but to demonstrate fatbikes ( Pugsley in my case ) respond very well to upgrades. I feel upgrading your hub/wheel/ BB can have the most profound effect on ride quality over almost anything else. I see some who spend money on bling, yet omit what I feel really counts ( It all counts of course ) We all have different and unique approaches about how to build our bikes. This forum gives us a chance to share that

    Surly makes a good hub for the money, so anyone riding them don't feel slighted. I never did, but there are other components out there that I feel will greatly enhance you're riding time. A good wheel set and BB is paramount imho to that end.

    Everyone have a great day...
    I would agree with your basic premise that upgrading wheels is one of the best ways to have a profound effect on ride quality but upgrading the hub from the Surly to the Phil really should not make much difference in ride quality. No doubt the Phils spin nice, I still have a set I got in 1975 that spin smooth, but that is something you feel while holding the spinning wheel not while riding. If you had gone to a lighter or wider rim you could certainly feel that but just changing from a good hub to a really good hub?
    You might feel going from a way out of true to true rim but that can be fixed unless the rim is totally bent.

    Very cool execution on the whole bike though, ride it and smile all the while.

  18. #18
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    Sorry guys no comment
    Last edited by suba; 05-14-2011 at 07:32 PM.

  19. #19
    How much does it weigh?
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    I'll have to agree with sryanak.

    Not sure how a cartridge bearing hub to a cartridge bearing hub is going to have any measurable affect on the ride quality.

    Even going from a really heavy basic Shimano hub to a King front hub, you just can't feel the difference.. it's all psychological. You won't notice even 150 grams removed from the front hub of a bike that heavy. You must be super human.

    Swaying away from that, the Phil's are great hubs, I worked on a bike recently that a guy left out in the yard for a few years, and the nice polished aluminum finish on the Phil hub he had in the back was completely corroded and the bearings were seized

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba
    Thanks for your opinion. Are you saying going from a Surly front hub to a Phil shouldn't make that much difference in ride quality ? Are you serious ? Do you have anything empirical to support that ? In my opinion a Surly front hub is a good hub for the money. Phil is the gold standard. Sure, a great lace job on a Surly will beat a bad one on a Phil every time, but I'm talking a master lacing a Phil....imo it just doesn't get any better than that.

    There is far less friction with my Phil. It's ultra smoooth. The hub makes the Surly look like something that belongs on a wagon, not a fatbike. No slam to anyone riding Surly. I rode them for a few years and never had a problem, but Phil is entirely in every aspect in a different class. Way worth the money imo. They're high flange. They're bombproof. They're pretty, and they're affordable. Slam dunk for Phil....they're seriously good stuff.

    Thanx for the good comments on my Pugs, and best luck in you're riding adventures
    I am totally not saying they are not worth the money. I can never argue against upgrading bikes to nicer components and the Phils are wonderfully made, will last forever, have smooth bearings, look fantastic, etc....What I am saying is that you are kidding yourself if you think you can feel the difference in rolling resistance while riding a fatbike especially. Front hub bearing resistance is a tiny fraction of the total resistance on your bike. I'm very sure that there is empirical data to support the percentage of rolling resistance that hub bearings contribute to total resistance and compares some hub types as well. I also base it on experience riding all types of bikes and hubs for way longer than I like to think about. As I said earlier I have had and ridden a set of Phil hubs since the mid '70's.

  21. #21
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    Sorry guys no comment
    Last edited by suba; 05-14-2011 at 07:32 PM.

  22. #22
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    Sorry guys. I'm out. Everyone have a good day.
    Last edited by suba; 05-14-2011 at 07:45 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sryanak
    I am totally not saying they are not worth the money. I can never argue against upgrading bikes to nicer components and the Phils are wonderfully made, will last forever, have smooth bearings, look fantastic, etc....What I am saying is that you are kidding yourself if you think you can feel the difference in rolling resistance while riding a fatbike especially. Front hub bearing resistance is a tiny fraction of the total resistance on your bike. I'm very sure that there is empirical data to support the percentage of rolling resistance that hub bearings contribute to total resistance and compares some hub types as well. I also base it on experience riding all types of bikes and hubs for way longer than I like to think about. As I said earlier I have had and ridden a set of Phil hubs since the mid '70's.
    I have to agree. Hub friction is a very small part of the equation, not noticeable in the ride of a bike unless the hub is poorly maintained (ie. binding up, dragging due to lack of lube, ect). There are a lot of other reasons to buy a Phil, perhaps the biggest ones being that they are USA made and that they are extremely long-lived. But, the smoother running bearings are very low on the list, in terms of utility.
    Stating an opinion or fact is not the same as passive aggression. Getting upset when someone disagrees with a statement you make is closer to passive aggression than anything else that has been posted here.

  24. #24
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    Come on girls, this is the Fat Bikes section, where attitudes never prevail.
    QUOTE from MTBR.COM: You have given Brewtality too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

  25. #25
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    Where did suba go? I did like looking at his bike!!

  26. #26
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    He couldn't deal with the internet evidently.
    owner, Holmes Bikes

  27. #27
    will rant for food
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    WTF? It was a cool bike. Odd.

  28. #28
    How much does it weigh?
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    Us internet Pirates made him walk the plank?

  29. #29
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    Suba just sent me a PM:

    Quote Originally Posted by suba
    Subject: Hey partner

    I didn't ask for your opinion. Next time keep your opinion to yourself
    I never would have bothered to post if I had known he was going to take such offense.

  30. #30
    How much does it weigh?
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    Me either.

    I'm pretty sure some people cry when they post on the trials forum I'm on and then get flamed. Especially Unicyclists.

  31. #31
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    I don't like seeing flaming or nasty stuff on a forum.

    The worst are the fixie forums IMO - which is why I don't bother looking at them even though I have been riding fixed or singlespeed for a long time.

    Generally this forum has been noted for its generosity of spirit, and I hope to see it continue that way.

    I thought suba's bike was very neat, and even the critical bits were in posts where the bike and his build was being praised, so I am surprised at his reaction. Maybe there are other factors in his life making him ultrasensitive, but I'd like to see him put his bike back up here, but hopefully he'll get used to the concept that posting something on an internet forum is inviting comment and opinion.

    For what it's worth I partly agree with his statement about the free running hub. As sryanack points out it is a very minor resistance and hardly quantifiable, but I think it shows up in the first few revolutions from stop in the feel of the bike. I have noticed a similar thing when taking off with my Sturmey-Archer drum brake hubs which are exceptionally free-running. It's a feel thing really rather than a performance issue.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velobike
    ... hopefully he'll get used to the concept that posting something on an internet forum is inviting comment and opinion...


    People that can't handle comments and opinions are encouraged to start a blog so they can forgo the mental anguish of being "judged" on forums.
    owner, Holmes Bikes

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdundee
    Where did suba go? I did like looking at his bike!!
    ...pics removed by request.
    Last edited by jncarpenter; 05-17-2011 at 07:27 AM.


  34. #34
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    Sweet Bike! Is that a Rohloff Speedhub on the back? Suba, pm me if your still out there. I would like to hear more about your internal geared hub.


    Steve

  35. #35
    will rant for food
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    FarNorth, yep, the shifter mech at the hub gives it away as a Rohloff.

  36. #36
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    gosh darn, I want one of those Rohlies.

  37. #37
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    Another PM from Suba- apparently, I've touched a nerve. Also, I'm apparently a scumbag and a coward. I'll include the entire PM here in the interest of fairness.
    Oh well, you can't please everyone, particularly when the internet is involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by suba
    Re: Hey partner

    Hey Andy....you're a scumbag. I'll be watching for you to make a thread. Sorry if what I post to trash your thread doesn't fit with your game plan. btw, only a coward would post a PM on someone's thread. You know what I mean PARTNER

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon
    MTBR is a public forum. If you post something up, you have to be prepared to accept whatever other users choose to post, unless it violates the rules of MTBR. Sorry if that doesn't fit in with your game plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by suba
    I didn't ask for your opinion. Next time keep your opinion to yourself

  38. #38
    Lighten up.
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    This was about a frickin' hub, suba. A hub. If a simple difference of opinion about an inanimate object gets your panties that twisted up, I'd hate to see how you respond to a legitimate life crisis.

    Take a long ride on that cool bike you built. Enjoy some time away from the Interwebz and whatever else ails ya.

  39. #39
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    Sorry guys. I had a super bad day the other day, and wasn't in a mood to debate. I'm still not. I'm also a pretty private person. Maybe my time as a Marine in Vietnam made me that way. I dunno. I decided it was best to pull my pictures. Plenty of other cool bikes to look at around here. I pm'd jn asking him to please remove my pictures. This thread should be over. My fault I know, and I'll live with it, so let's all move on. btw, Andy you've made an enemy for life

    Steve, yes it's a Rohloff. I highly recommend one. PM with any questions. Mango...it's been raining here for several weeks. Not much time to ride lately. That certainly adds to it.

    All of you guys have a good day, and sorry about the bad vibes...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba
    Andy you've made an enemy for life
    If expressing my opinion makes me an enemy for life, so be it, though I would say that has more to do with you than with me.
    Last edited by Andy FitzGibbon; 05-17-2011 at 09:25 AM.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba
    Sorry guys. I had a super bad day the other day, and wasn't in a mood to debate. I'm still not. I'm also a pretty private person. Maybe my time as a Marine in Vietnam made me that way. I dunno. I decided it was best to pull my pictures. Plenty of other cool bikes to look at around here. I pm'd jn asking him to please remove my pictures. This thread should be over. My fault I know, and I'll live with it, so let's all move on. btw, Andy you've made an enemy for life

    Steve, yes it's a Rohloff. I highly recommend one. PM with any questions. Mango...it's been raining here for several weeks. Not much time to ride lately. That certainly adds to it.

    All of you guys have a good day, and sorry about the bad vibes...
    Damn dude, I’m going to miss seeing the pictures of your kickass Rohloff’d fatbike.
    QUOTE from MTBR.COM: You have given Brewtality too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

  42. #42
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    Leo, Maybe I'll take some pics on a ride if it ever stops raining and post some. I'm just not feeling it right now. You know what I mean With all the cool fatbikes I've seen around here, I had no idea some of you guys would be so stoked about mine. Even after the sheat hit the fan, you guys are still a great bunch. Man, the fatbike forum really is where it's at

    I do owe an apology to sryanak. I did agree with you to a point. There are few absolutes in life. Some people are more sensitive than others to minor variations in performance. For a variety of reasons my new wheel outperformed my old one, and Phil is part of that enhanced performance. I was just trying to tell others that fatbikes can perform on an amazing level if you care to go there. My Phil bb and front hub along with my Rohloff work synergistically. In fact imho every component of my bike works synergistically. The whole truly is greater than the sum of the parts. My goal was to achieve Zen, and believe I found it.

    jn, you're a good man. Thank you. I would have done the same for you. Andy, although the way this thread turned out is entirely my fault, some things that you said didn't sit right with me. I pm'd you to take it private. No need concerning the group when it apparently was between you and myself. I wanted to see what you were made of so I pushed a few buttons. I was never really mad, just trying to see the man behind the keyboard. btw, I would have never posted your pm's for the group to read. To me PM means pm....not pm then post it. No honor in that imo.

    So hopefully we can all move on from here. Sorry to everyone about all of this. I'm looking forward to seeing more fatbikes, and hearing about more adventures. Everyone have a good day.

  43. #43
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    Sometimes the internet can just be tough, and it is certainly hard to judge tone of voice!

    I am in the party that loved your bike. I hope to have one like it one day.
    owner, Holmes Bikes

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba
    ...Man, the fatbike forum really is where it's at...
    OK, so let's start again.

    Pics of your bike would be a good way to do a fresh start.
    As little bike as possible, as silent as possible.
    Latitude: 57º36' Highlands, Scotland

  45. #45
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    Right on suba, As James Brown says " get on the good foot"

    Cheers,
    Steve

  46. #46
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    GOOD!

    If we liken this forum to a pinic or a big pot luck, where the ideas/opinions expressed are the food, then there are some great cooks!

    As with every such event, not everyone's potato salad can be expected to rate on the taste buds the same.

    Suba, you have your Phil, glad to see that you intend to stick around for your...fill.

    We take care of our own on this forum.

  47. #47
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    Tough crown here tonight I'm thinking it might be best to let this thread pass into history, then start over. Besides, I don't have the pics I posted anymore. I'm only weeks away from getting my frame bag from Eric Parsons ( Revelate ) Then my bike will be complete, with pics promised to all............and it will be glorious

    Sound ok ? See you then.....and everyone ( I mean everyone ) have a great night.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba
    Andy, although the way this thread turned out is entirely my fault, some things that you said didn't sit right with me. I pm'd you to take it private. No need concerning the group when it apparently was between you and myself. I wanted to see what you were made of so I pushed a few buttons. I was never really mad, just trying to see the man behind the keyboard. btw, I would have never posted your pm's for the group to read. To me PM means pm....not pm then post it. No honor in that imo.
    I understand. However, ordering me to keep my opinions to myself, calling me a scumbag, and accusing me of being a coward were not the most constructive ways to "see the man behind the keyboard". Perhaps if you had explained your intentions in your first PM, instead of just ordering me to stop posting, we could have had a more intelligent dialogue.
    If you didn't want me to post your PMs here, you should have mentioned that first thing. You can't expect everyone else on the internet to automatically hold to your own code of honor regarding PMs. I was not aware that you felt the problem was specifically between you and myself- I was under the impression that you were pissed off at everyone who had posted opinions you didn't like.
    I posted your PMs so that other members could "see what you were made of", which was apparently the sort of stuff that flies off the handle at the slightest disagreement and feels justified in hurling insults at someone they haven't even met. That may not be accurate, but it's the impression you gave, and it's all we have to go on.
    I am sorry that whatever it was I said didn't sit right with you, but as I mentioned in one of my PMs everyone on this forum is entitled to post their opinion. You have, in other threads, demonstrated this by aggressively defending your own opinions. In light of that, I am surprised that you would not extend that right to other members.
    Anyway, I will drop this, and I don't bear you any ill will.

  49. #49
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    Not wishing to revive this thread, but damn it Andy you just have to get the last dig in don't you. I think what you've said tells more about yourself than about me. Saying if I didn't want you to post my pm's I should have mentioned it first thing is the lamest statement I've ever heard. Clearly you have a hard on for me because of things I've said in other threads, and this was your chance for a confrontation. I tend to dislike whiners, complainers, passive aggressive, and people who think they know more about what's in my head than I do. I don't know who made you the internet police, but please * please * I'm asking you not to post on any of my future threads. Simple request.

    Clearly your posts are meant for an audience. If they were meant just for me, you would have sent them pm. I went private with you, but you turned it into a public spectacle to feed your ego. No worries. I'm a tough guy. I've faced a lot more than you in my life. You can count on that.

    Anything else that you need to convey please pm me. That's my request. Have a good day, and take care.



    Quote Originally Posted by Andy FitzGibbon
    I understand. However, ordering me to keep my opinions to myself, calling me a scumbag, and accusing me of being a coward were not the most constructive ways to "see the man behind the keyboard". Perhaps if you had explained your intentions in your first PM, instead of just ordering me to stop posting, we could have had a more intelligent dialogue.
    If you didn't want me to post your PMs here, you should have mentioned that first thing. You can't expect everyone else on the internet to automatically hold to your own code of honor regarding PMs. I was not aware that you felt the problem was specifically between you and myself- I was under the impression that you were pissed off at everyone who had posted opinions you didn't like.
    I posted your PMs so that other members could "see what you were made of", which was apparently the sort of stuff that flies off the handle at the slightest disagreement and feels justified in hurling insults at someone they haven't even met. That may not be accurate, but it's the impression you gave, and it's all we have to go on.
    I am sorry that whatever it was I said didn't sit right with you, but as I mentioned in one of my PMs everyone on this forum is entitled to post their opinion. You have, in other threads, demonstrated this by aggressively defending your own opinions. In light of that, I am surprised that you would not extend that right to other members.
    Anyway, I will drop this, and I don't bear you any ill will.

  50. #50
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    ok sorry, I never saw the rest of this thread when I checked it out the first time. I am closing it now.

    And for the record it is very poor form to post any PM in the forum. PM stands for Personal or Private Message and hence should stay that way. I usually delete PM's from forums when they are posted but I am going to send this whole thread to the recycling bin.

    Usually you guys are my easy forum to tend, let's try to keep it that way 'mkay?
    Try this: HTFU

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