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  1. #1
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    Ellsworth article on bikeportland

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    It's amazing how much mountain bike hate comes alive in the comment section of "bike"portland. These are the same people that spent a week complaining about an armored car which occasionally parked in a bike lane. I think there were like 3 articles devoted to that bull. I wish some of these over-entitled cycling advocates would throw a little effort and love our way, but I just don't see it happening.

  3. #3
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    One thing they don't "get"....

    IMO is that getting people on mountain bikes means more people commuting. Almost every person I know who began as a mountain biker now also owns at least one other bike for road riding/commuting (even if just for the occasional trip to buy beer at Plaid Pantry).

    My guess is that the vocal minority on BP.org use FP for hiking and don't want to share. Just because they are commuters on two wheels does not mean that they are on our side or educated on the subject of mountain biking. We need to voice our opinions in friendly, logical terms so that the vocal minority do not steal the show in public forums. The more we do this, the better.
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  4. #4
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    Added my comments. It's just incredible how hateful some of the anti-MTB posters can be at bikeportland. I don't advocate for MTB trails just for my own selfish sake (although I won't deny that motivation), but because our sedentary population (especially kids) needs more outlets for healthy, active outdoor recreation that is low in environmental impact.

    Funny how the arguments in favor of recreation cycling are awfully similar to the arguments in favor of transportation cycling. Yet, despite being constantly hammered by complaints from the bike haters that cyclists are "self-righteous," "whiny" and "entitled," many transportation-cycling proponents turn right around and level the same accusations against us.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

  5. #5
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    Ptd is the gortex brigade city of the northwest .there is no mountain biking near city limits. And ellsworth blows . dude they have.lightning graphics. Wtf? Can any one say LA and GAY SEX. They suck.
    Last edited by freebiker; 10-10-2011 at 08:13 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by free-agent View Post
    IMO is that getting people on mountain bikes means more people commuting. Almost every person I know who began as a mountain biker now also owns at least one other bike for road riding/commuting (even if just for the occasional trip to buy beer at Plaid Pantry).

    My guess is that the vocal minority on BP.org use FP for hiking and don't want to share. Just because they are commuters on two wheels does not mean that they are on our side or educated on the subject of mountain biking. We need to voice our opinions in friendly, logical terms so that the vocal minority do not steal the show in public forums. The more we do this, the better.
    The anti MTB bike rhetoric on this post didn't seem all that bad compared to others I've seen. I still don't get it.

    One a related note, I've always been kind of a rule follower but am pretty fed up with the FP situation. Sometimes I think we ought to shout a collective F-it and just have at it. I still can't comprehend how we have such a huge park in such an active city and yet it remains off limits.

    That OneGhost fellow seems a bit bitter. I was tempted to offer an explanation of how the retail industry works but thought better of it. Best of luck to him in SoCal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by free-agent View Post
    I gave up on BikePortland comments long ago. Be it mount bikes, cars, etc. all the comments seem to end up in a big pile of hate and discontent in nothing flat. Its nothing but trolls and not worth the time and effort to read.

    Reading between the lines on the article, it sounds like Ellsworth isn't selling enough bikes to make in house worth it. The location of the spin off sounds like the old Mountain Cycles factory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    Ptd is the gortex brigade city of the northwest .there is no mountain biking near city limits. And ellsworth blows . dude they have.lightning graphics. Wtf? Can any one say LA and GAY SEX. They suck.
    HAHA! While your post made me laugh ( I agree Tony ellsworth likes gay sex in la while wearing gortex) it's awesome to have high end bikes made in the usa and even better if they are made in PDX. Perhaps giving sappa some competition will bring down prices, increase innovation, and benefit us all

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    Quote Originally Posted by freebiker View Post
    Ptd is the gortex brigade city of the northwest .there is no mountain biking near city limits. And ellsworth blows . dude they have.lightning graphics. Wtf? Can any one say LA and GAY SEX. They suck.
    Speaking of trolls...

    OK, maybe T.E. should refrain from public speaking, but slander like that is pure stupidity.

    I think it is great to see more high end bike manufacturing here in Portland. The fit and finish of Ellsworth bikes are top notch and I would guess this will continue with Zen building the frames. (Same people) I see a future for manufacturing in this country. Costs of labor going up in Asia, fuel prices going up for shipping, improved productivity and lower costs here in the States will lead to a comeback for US manufacturing.
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  10. #10
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    Left my 2cents. Maybe people will feel some guilt or shame that flat, swampy, cyclist-hating cities like New Orleans, Baton Rouge, and Mobile have better mtb trails than PDX. Sad but true.

    On a different note, does anyone have links or any background info on when/where/how FP has responded to mtb trails? I'd love to read up on it.

    *nevermind, found it on NWTA

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by smudge View Post

    One a related note, I've always been kind of a rule follower but am pretty fed up with the FP situation. Sometimes I think we ought to shout a collective F-it and just have at it. I still can't comprehend how we have such a huge park in such an active city and yet it remains off limits.
    Occupy Forest Park?

  12. #12
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    I like it.....

    When do we start?
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  13. #13
    Daniel the Dog
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    Those occupy Portland folks are welcomed to move to Forest Park

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Those occupy Portland folks are welcomed to move to Forest Park
    I concur wholeheartedly!

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    Well, fortunately we do live in a free democracy (for now), so they are also welcome to stay right where they are.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

  16. #16
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    But the street!!

    They are blocking one city block of street!! How dare they break a law during a nonviolent protest!! What are the cars supposed to do? Drive around? The horror!!
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by free-agent View Post
    They are blocking one city block of street!! How dare they break a law during a nonviolent protest!! What are the cars supposed to do? Drive around? The horror!!
    Could be worse, they could block a bike lane!!

  18. #18
    Daniel the Dog
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    At least if they moved to Forest Park and demanded that bike lanes trails were opened they would have a specific message and cause to protest.

  19. #19
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    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by GlowBoy View Post
    Well, fortunately we do live in a free democracy (for now), so they are also welcome to stay right where they are.
    This protest is a prime example of democracy in action Martin Luther King would be so proud he might roll his eyes and then fall asleep.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    At least if they moved to Forest Park and demanded that bike lanes trails were opened they would have a specific message and cause to protest.
    The message and cause seem pretty clear to me. The only people I've seen having a hard time "understanding" the message are those for whom it is inconvenient or uncomfortable.
    "People like GloyBoy are deaf. They are partisan, intellectually lazy & usually very angry." -Jaybo

  21. #21
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    Let me help you.....

    "The Top 1% Are Taking In More off the Nation's Income Than at Any Other Time Since the 1920s. The top 1% own 40% of the Nation's wealth."
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  22. #22
    Daniel the Dog
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    The top 1% pay 38% of the income taxes in this country. The top 10% pay 70%. The bottom 50% pay 2% of the nations income taxes. They pay their share. Most of them have done nothing wrong but chased and acquired the American Dream. How have they become the bad guy?

    Free Agent: How would you redistribute the wealth? If you did redistribute the wealth the wealthy would get it back in short order because they follow principles of good financial principles and wealth acquisition. .

    That said, I do get how young people are frustrated. They should be marching against the government and their policies....lower corporate tax rates and close tax loop holes.

  23. #23
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    Okay

    Quote Originally Posted by GlowBoy View Post
    The message and cause seem pretty clear to me. The only people I've seen having a hard time "understanding" the message are those for whom it is inconvenient or uncomfortable.
    That statements has no facts and really means nothing. It is like saying, "Good people walk their dog." Okay....

  24. #24
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    OK, I will get drawn into this ****ing political argument.....it's about the CEOs of corporations and their boards, investment companies creating schemes to steal the retirement funds from our grandparents, large companies taking tax payer bailouts, mortgage companies signing people up for loans that they cannot afford, etc. CEOS taking golden parachutes of millions as they drive companies into the ground forcing the employees loose their security and retirement. Think about Enron, the dozens of investment firms, mortgage companies, Countrywide Mortgage, GM, Chrysler, on and ****ing on. We, the people of the US, have the right to be ****ing pissed off about the state of the nation. The wealthy are not working for their wealth, they are stealing it, wake up!

    Back on topic, It's great to have the caliber of the Elsworth crew in Portland. Good luck to them.
    Last edited by hydrogeek; 10-12-2011 at 09:36 PM.
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  25. #25
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    Oh BOY you did it now. You opened up the partisan, intellectually lazy and very angry floodgates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    The top 1% pay 38% of the income taxes in this country. The top 10% pay 70%. The bottom 50% pay 2% of the nations income taxes. They pay their share. Most of them have done nothing wrong but chased and acquired the American Dream. How have they become the bad guy?
    That is true, but income taxes are less than half of all federal taxes. When you factor in all federal taxes, Americans on average pay 22.5% of their income in taxes to the federal government, but the top earners only pay 16.6% on average. Getting the wealthy's effective tax burden up to 22.5% would raise a staggering amount of money towards closing the deficit gap ... simply because 6% of their income IS a staggering amount of money.

    As for the bottom 50%, the reason they pay almost no income tax is that they have no income beyond the substinence level needed to survive (and BTW they DO pay a big chunk of their wages in payroll taxes). The Republicans claim that the proposed tax increase on the wealthy would "only" raise $800 billion towards closing the deficit, and lament that almost half of Americans pay no tax at all. OK, so let's talk about how we would raise that kind of cash from the bottom 50% instead. Any idea how high you'd have to raise their income taxes? Answer: doesn't matter. Can't be done. To raise $800 billion from the bottom half, you would have to confiscate 50% of everything they own, because their net worth is just $1.6 trillion. Hmm ... which would be more fair? Taking away half of everything that the poor own, or a meager 6% from people who want for nothing, have benefited immensely from our economic system, and can damn well afford to pay their share to help run it? Maybe your answer to that question is different than mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Free Agent: How would you redistribute the wealth? If you did redistribute the wealth the wealthy would get it back in short order because they follow principles of good financial principles and wealth acquisition.
    I'll answer: progressive taxation would help start the redistribution without being confiscatory, and would prevent the accumulation from reaching the level that it has. The great increase in the concentration of wealth has only been since the rollback of higher brackets' tax rates 30 years ago.

    This concentration of wealth is also one of the biggest reasons our economy can't seem to get itself running again. The poor and middle class SPEND almost all their income, keeping it circulating and stimulating the economy. The rich spend a much smaller share of their income, and with the economy sucking there aren't great investments out there so they are just SITTING on it. With more and more wealth concentrated in fewer, richer hands, not enough wealth is circulating. The American economy is and always has been fueled by consumer demand. Get more money in the pockets of the working people -- the REAL job creators -- and watch it roar back to life!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    That said, I do get how young people are frustrated. They should be marching against the government and their policies....lower corporate tax rates and close tax loop holes.
    Well, that is what they're doing. They just disagree with you about the policies. Except closing the loopholes. Go downtown and I bet you'd get a lot of agreement on that point.
    Last edited by GlowBoy; 10-12-2011 at 11:53 PM. Reason: fixed a typo
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  26. #26
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    Glowboy,

    I do appreciate your thought instead of chippy comments like Hydrogeek, which really mean nothing, but emotionally charged hate. Check this out: http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf It is dated but interesting nonethetheless...by the way, what is up with the hateful attack on gay's in this string?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    The top 1% pay 38% of the income taxes in this country. The top 10% pay 70%. The bottom 50% pay 2% of the nations income taxes. They pay their share. Most of them have done nothing wrong but chased and acquired the American Dream. How have they become the bad guy?

    Free Agent: How would you redistribute the wealth? If you did redistribute the wealth the wealthy would get it back in short order because they follow principles of good financial principles and wealth acquisition. .

    That said, I do get how young people are frustrated. They should be marching against the government and their policies....lower corporate tax rates and close tax loop holes.
    We don't need to redistribute the wealth. We need the wealthy to help pay for infrastructure, to help educate the work force (that they should utilize instead of sourcing overseas), to fund agencies that actually regulate our also corrupt food system that is getting people sick and obese, to not fight wars, to study medicine, to explore space (and time), to fight the over-population that is driving this equation ("Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." -Ed A.), to fund the arts and music (free downloads!), to build mountain bike trails in urban environments (so kids don't get obese), to stop global warming, to build a f***ing hovercraft already . . . the list goes on; the bottom line is: with all this technology, with all of our human capability, what will be the legacy of our times?

    The problem is, where people, individuals, might have a conscious and ability for compassion, a corporation does not. They are like a cancer cell.

    But they don't have to be.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Glowboy,

    I do appreciate your thought instead of chippy comments like Hydrogeek, which really mean nothing, but emotionally charged hate. Check this out: http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr151.pdf It is dated but interesting nonethetheless...by the way, what is up with the hateful attack on gay's in this string?
    After the **** that you spout on this forum, I find your remarks to my post ironic. Many of your posts can be categorized by your hate for Portland, hate for Forest Park, hate for political leaders, hate for school systems and teachers, on and on and on.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydrogeek View Post
    After the **** that you spout on this forum, I find your remarks to my post ironic. Many of your posts can be categorized by your hate for Portland, hate for Forest Park, hate for political leaders, hate for school systems and teachers, on and on and on.
    So,you are not the one responsible for "adjusting" his rep power,etc...
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  30. #30
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    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Muesl View Post
    We don't need to redistribute the wealth. We need the wealthy to help pay for infrastructure, to help educate the work force (that they should utilize instead of sourcing overseas), to fund agencies that actually regulate our also corrupt food system that is getting people sick and obese, to not fight wars, to study medicine, to explore space (and time), to fight the over-population that is driving this equation ("Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell." -Ed A.), to fund the arts and music (free downloads!), to build mountain bike trails in urban environments (so kids don't get obese), to stop global warming, to build a f***ing hovercraft already . . . the list goes on; the bottom line is: with all this technology, with all of our human capability, what will be the legacy of our times?

    The problem is, where people, individuals, might have a conscious and ability for compassion, a corporation does not. They are like a cancer cell.

    But they don't have to be.
    Without corporations this country would be Mexico. How in the world did folks start hating corporations?

    If you want to stop global warming sell your car and ride your bike to work. Oh, and no riding to 3 Corner Rock or the other places you ride. Otherwise, you are nothing more than a pithy hypocrite.

  31. #31
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    Yes, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Without corporations this country would be Mexico. How in the world did folks start hating corporations?

    If you want to stop global warming sell your car and ride your bike to work. Oh, and no riding to 3 Corner Rock or the other places you ride. Otherwise, you are nothing more than a pithy hypocrite.
    I do ride my bike to work. I have ridden my bike to Three Corner Rock and to the top. That's not why I'm a hypocrite. I'm a hypocrite for fathering three children if anything. But I love them and care for them and feed them and hold them accountable for their actions. Which is lot more than we are able to do for most corporations whose lobbying our congress has led to the crafting of legislation that is favorable to the point where some of the wealthiest have no tax liability.

    And then there was this Supreme Court decision.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    .by the way, what is up with the hateful attack on gay's in this string?
    Hey Jaybo,
    you have the same perspective as a rich, white, educated, republican.... we all know this isn't possible so I'll assume you live in your rich, white, educated, republican's parents basement. What about the fact that unregulated corporate greed that leveraged their monetary platform up to some 800%? When this amazing idea collapsed our wonderful government bailed them out to the tune of some 3 trillion of ours and our infinite progenies dollars? Double that with the fact that most corporate monkeys simply took these moneys on as "bonuses" ...after all, the worlds monetary value didn't just simply vanish into thin air! What exactly are you standing behind Gaybo? Reagon's trickle down economics has decimated america's middle class, consolidated wealth back to an oligarchy state, and destabilized the globe you h0m0

  33. #33
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    You don't have to hate corporations to acknowledge that they've gotten too powerful in the political arena. The "look at those hypocritical protestors with their smartphones" rhetoric I hear OVER and OVER again lately is a bunch of strawman BS. Just because you want to rein in Corporations' out-of-control political power doesn't mean you hate them and want them to disappear and it doesn't mean you are a socialist. Heck, I'm mostly opposed to increased socialism (except when it comes to medical insurance), I think corporations produce lots of great products and services, and I think they're an essential part of our economy. I just want them to stop overriding the voices of normal Americans with their truckloads of campaign cash. I want them to stop corrupting our precious democracy.

    Corporations allow accumulated capital to act as a person for purposes of conducting business transactions, as declared in state charters which grant them this and other rights. Even the right to exist is granted by the state, and can be revoked if a Corporation doesn't serve the public interest). Citizens, in contrast, aren't granted our rights -- they exist innately as a product of our existence as human beings. Government merely recognizes OUR rights. Ask any Founder -- oh, and by the way, the Founders were absolutely paranoid about the potential for corporate power to infringe on the people's power. After all, the original Boston Tea Party was a revolt against the British East India Company (a large corporation in which King George was a major shareholder) and the special tax break it was given by the British government's Tax Act. It was a revolt NOT strictly against taxes, but against corporate power corrupting the government.

    And now, while corporations don't have any innate right to free political speech, they've been getting it thanks to an erroneous 1886 Supreme Court "headnote" that has been wrongly propagated down through escalating court decisions. When the protesters speak about "taking back our democracy", this is a big part of what they're talking about.
    Last edited by GlowBoy; 10-13-2011 at 10:14 PM.
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  34. #34
    Daniel the Dog
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    What?

    Quote Originally Posted by big JC View Post
    Hey Jaybo,
    you have the same perspective as a rich, white, educated, republican.... we all know this isn't possible so I'll assume you live in your rich, white, educated, republican's parents basement. What about the fact that unregulated corporate greed that leveraged their monetary platform up to some 800%? When this amazing idea collapsed our wonderful government bailed them out to the tune of some 3 trillion of ours and our infinite progenies dollars? Double that with the fact that most corporate monkeys simply took these moneys on as "bonuses" ...after all, the worlds monetary value didn't just simply vanish into thin air! What exactly are you standing behind Gaybo? Reagon's trickle down economics has decimated america's middle class, consolidated wealth back to an oligarchy state, and destabilized the globe you h0m0
    I am far from a rich person! My wife and I are careful with money but I hardly come from money. I read posts like this and am left speechless. I don't agree with some of Glow Boy's posts but at least he has an articulated point.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo View Post
    Without corporations this country would be Mexico. How in the world did folks start hating corporations?

    If you want to stop global warming sell your car and ride your bike to work. Oh, and no riding to 3 Corner Rock or the other places you ride. Otherwise, you are nothing more than a pithy hypocrite.
    ENRON seperates the US from Mexico?At least Ken Lay got it right.Maybe other likeminded individuals can follow his example.Most of "you" were ready to toe the line until the crime was exposed.How many small companies were destroyed due to the actions of Enron alone.Gee...this month your bill is 7 times as much as the last one.Are you ready to defend Goldman Sachs Jaybo?Are those your type of people.I have zero issue with talented,educated,or even "lucky" people doing extremely well for themselves,but to defend the current corporate shenanigans?BTW,Mexico's problems have far more to do with US than any lack of organized tax dodging conglomerates.Don't drag Three Corner Rock into this.I know Three Corner Rock...and you are no Three Corner Rock!
    -gotta quote General C, "time to ride"
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  36. #36
    Daniel the Dog
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    Poppa#1: pure genius post! I'm left speechless.

  37. #37
    Daniel the Dog
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    Price of tea in China?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Muesl View Post
    I do ride my bike to work. I have ridden my bike to Three Corner Rock and to the top. That's not why I'm a hypocrite. I'm a hypocrite for fathering three children if anything. But I love them and care for them and feed them and hold them accountable for their actions. Which is lot more than we are able to do for most corporations whose lobbying our congress has led to the crafting of legislation that is favorable to the point where some of the wealthiest have no tax liability.

    And then there was this Supreme Court decision.
    You are probably a great guy but talking about Global Warming like it is a corporate problem and then driving to MRT and other places is hypocritical. You are a piece of the problem, assuming there is a problem, which there probably is....

    Corporations are smart and take corporate loop oles because they are trying to make money. Big surprise? The corporate tax rate in the US is some of the worst in the world. An oversimplified solution would be to close the loopholes and lower the corporate tax rates. This would encourage corporations to stay in America.

    The wealthy pay most of the taxes! It isn't even a discussion worth having; check the IRS website.

  38. #38
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    This thread has gone way off topic and is done.
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