Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 57

Thread: Edward Snowden

  1. #1
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491

    Edward Snowden

    I'm not sure why the NSA thread got recycled - after all, it affects all of us, globally.
    Is MTBR trying to sweep it under the rug too? NAH!

    Anyways, here's the latest from the NSA Whistle-blower (or 'leaker' if you are MSM), Edward Snowden:
    Statement from Edward Snowden in Moscow

    "One week ago I left Hong Kong after it became clear that my freedom and safety were under threat for revealing the truth. My continued liberty has been owed to the efforts of friends new and old, family, and others who I have never met and probably never will. I trusted them with my life and they returned that trust with a faith in me for which I will always be thankful.

    On Thursday, President Obama declared before the world that he would not permit any diplomatic "wheeling and dealing" over my case. Yet now it is being reported that after promising not to do so, the President ordered his Vice President to pressure the leaders of nations from which I have requested protection to deny my asylum petitions.

    This kind of deception from a world leader is not justice, and neither is the extralegal penalty of exile. These are the old, bad tools of political aggression. Their purpose is to frighten, not me, but those who would come after me.

    For decades the United States of America has been one of the strongest defenders of the human right to seek asylum. Sadly, this right, laid out and voted for by the U.S. in Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is now being rejected by the current government of my country. The Obama administration has now adopted the strategy of using citizenship as a weapon. Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum.

    In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake. We are stateless, imprisoned, or powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised — and it should be.

    I am unbowed in my convictions and impressed at the efforts taken by so many.

    Edward Joseph Snowden

    Monday 1st July 2013"
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  2. #2
    gobsmacked Moderator
    Reputation: girlonbike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,481
    Political. Just like this one.

  3. #3
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    it's not politics GOB - this is about people, human rights and entities that want to curb them.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  4. #4
    Bro
    Bro is offline
    Content from my avatar
    Reputation: Bro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,356
    But in the end, it turns to politics. It's just too closely tied to politics for us to talk at any length about Snowden without turning it into a political discussion. I think the OC (at least the regulars here) would be able to keep it tame and insightful, but unfortunately, rules for the entire site is rules for the entire site.

    Now, without expressing my personal opinion of Snowden, I believe that, if he'd done things differently, he could have achieved the same goal without getting himself in so much trouble so quickly. But it's a bit late for that now.
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  5. #5
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by Bro View Post
    But in the end, it turns to politics. It's just too closely tied to politics for us to talk at any length about Snowden without turning it into a political discussion. I think the OC (at least the regulars here) would be able to keep it tame and insightful, but unfortunately, rules for the entire site is rules for the entire site.

    Now, without expressing my personal opinion of Snowden, I believe that, if he'd done things differently, he could have achieved the same goal without getting himself in so much trouble so quickly. But it's a bit late for that now.
    Even when it's inter-country? Does that make it super-political or something?
    New NSA leaks show how US is bugging its European allies | World news | The Guardian
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  6. #6
    Bro
    Bro is offline
    Content from my avatar
    Reputation: Bro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    Even when it's inter-country? Does that make it super-political or something?
    New NSA leaks show how US is bugging its European allies | World news | The Guardian
    Yup. Probably at least mostly because it's the governments that are involved. If it were a private company that was doing this, I would expect the discussion to be very different. Also, let's not forget that this is an international forum.
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  7. #7
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by Bro View Post
    Yup. Probably at least mostly because it's the governments that are involved. If it were a private company that was doing this, I would expect the discussion to be very different. Also, let's not forget that this is an international forum.
    private companies/banks-governments ,,, hard to tell the difference IMO
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  8. #8
    Bro
    Bro is offline
    Content from my avatar
    Reputation: Bro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,356
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    private companies/banks-governments ,,, hard to tell the difference IMO
    There we go with the politics part.

    (And though I agree with you ) The difference is in the public perception. Snowden's case was first widely reported as data collection by the government, so that's what people will believe. First impressions do wonders.
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fishbucket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,259
    If he didn't do anything wrong.... why is he running?
    Hey Miraculous... Go Raiders ! .
    -Dad

  10. #10
    AZ
    AZ is offline
    banned
    Reputation: AZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    19,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    If he didn't do anything wrong.... why is he running?


    To Russia of all places. Bring him back to the U.S., have a trial.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Awshucks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    632
    After the articles I read it didn't seem as though Russia was intended to be his final destination. People who ask why he ran to Honk Kong, and then Russia (with the intentions to go to Cuba) and then Ecuador are forgetting the modern nature of seeking asylum. Where was he to go, Britain, Australia, Canada? But then again we are speaking about individualistic action here so know one knows his intentions except him. That's why I am less concerning myself with Snowden and have more concerned myself with the actual content of his leaks and what will be done about it.

  12. #12
    High Desert MTBer
    Reputation: rockerc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,850
    I really do not know enough about what actually happened with these 'leaks', or what circumstances led to Snowden's flight, and unfortunately, now that obfuscation and bending of the truth have no doubt happened, mixed in with a healthy dose of 'opinion' giving, I probably never will.
    Send RandomGuyOnABike to fetch him back... actually, just the thought that RGOAB might come after him will get him on the first plane back...
    It's all Here. Now.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fishbucket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,259
    I forgot to add... . Come back and fight like a man. don't throw out a ***** slap then run.
    He's no better than a terrorist... hit and run

    .like a poosy
    Hey Miraculous... Go Raiders ! .
    -Dad

  14. #14
    thread crapper
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    754
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishbucket View Post
    I forgot to add... . Come back and fight like a man. don't throw out a ***** slap then run.
    He's no better than a terrorist... hit and run

    .like a poosy
    I respectfully disagree. Yeah, he ran, but he knows that the deck is stacked against him. If you don't mind being watched constantly, that's fine. He just wants to make sure you're aware that you are being watched and listened to all the time. I appreciate him making it known. He knew his actions would require him to run, and gave up his "life" to do it. He'll never be able to just chill out on a beach again without a gnawing feeling that he could be snatched up or just out right killed.

  15. #15
    banned
    Reputation: random walk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,666
    The backpedaling by Ecuador is funny.

  16. #16
    banned
    Reputation: random walk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,666
    And most, if not all of the countries allegedly bugged by the U.S. would be hypocritical in their complaints. Not unjustified, but hypocritical.

  17. #17
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    Political. Just like this one.
    Pedal faster

  18. #18
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bro View Post
    But in the end, it turns to politics. It's just too closely tied to politics for us to talk at any length about Snowden without turning it into a political discussion. I think the OC (at least the regulars here) would be able to keep it tame and insightful, but unfortunately, rules for the entire site is rules for the entire site.

    Now, without expressing my personal opinion of Snowden, I believe that, if he'd done things differently, he could have achieved the same goal without getting himself in so much trouble so quickly. But it's a bit late for that now.
    Even when it's inter-country? Does that make it super-political or something?
    New NSA leaks show how US is bugging its European allies | World news | The Guardian
    Absolutely it's political.

    Besides,
    A MOD has already stated it is political.

    But, being as it's still around ... I guess it's time to voice an opinion on the subject.

  19. #19
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    Quote Originally Posted by scottap2003 View Post
    I respectfully disagree. Yeah, he ran, but he knows that the deck is stacked against him. If you don't mind being watched constantly, that's fine. He just wants to make sure you're aware that you are being watched and listened to all the time. I appreciate him making it known. He knew his actions would require him to run, and gave up his "life" to do it. He'll never be able to just chill out on a beach again without a gnawing feeling that he could be snatched up or just out right killed.
    If you don't realize that you're constantly being watched, you're not paying attention.

    Enemy Of The State
    That is his unofficial title, and IMO, the political factions that control from within government, will either get him, or make him disappear.

    He embarrassed our government, by reminding the public of what they knew about, but chose to forget.

    This same government has admitted to committing acts of espionage, and called other nations hypocrites, if they do not look behind their own curtains, first.

    The sad thing is ... Some people want blood, because what should be known by all, required a reminder.

  20. #20
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,596
    You cant take a job at the NSA, make a living from them and the country, then turn around and feed information to who ever he pleases, the guy is no different to a terrorist and should be treated as such.
    Now he is running to other countries and they will provide him with asylum to hand over more information, in the old days guys like this would have been shot.

    Of course every country is running survailence, and they absolutly need to be doing that, the worlds a dangerous place, its not a kids playground.

    I recon the guy should be locked up for a very long time.

    He was in a trusted position and he broke the trust, i say charge him as a terrorist and lock him up.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  21. #21
    AZ
    AZ is offline
    banned
    Reputation: AZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    19,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    You cant take a job at the NSA, make a living from them and the country, then turn around and feed information to who ever he pleases, the guy is no different to a terrorist and should be treated as such.
    Now he is running to other countries and they will provide him with asylum to hand over more information, in the old days guys like this would have been shot.

    Of course every country is running survailence, and they absolutly need to be doing that, the worlds a dangerous place, its not a kids playground.


    I recon the guy should be locked up for a very long time.

    He was in a trusted position and he broke the trust, i say charge him as a terrorist and lock him up.




    Hey! Did ya hear about the Aussie wearing the yellow jersey in Le Tour?

  22. #22
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty $anchez View Post
    Hey! Did ya hear about the Aussie wearing the yellow jersey in Le Tour?
    GO SIMON GERRINS WWWOOOOOOOO WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    only the 6th aussie to ever pull on the yellow.

    Won the stage yesterday and our aussie team won the time trial today, one very proud aussie here AZ
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  23. #23
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    726
    My 2 cents?
    Dude doesn't even exist.
    This is just a distraction to keep you refocused away from what is important. Nothing he "leaked" was new information, hell I have known about this for at least 20 years, and ANYTHING reported by the MSM is not to be trusted.

  24. #24
    gobsmacked Moderator
    Reputation: girlonbike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,481
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    our aussie team won the time trial today, one very proud aussie here AZ
    Way to go, spoiler. Sucked the fun right out of watching it for me tonight.







    you still suck though.

  25. #25
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,939
    Agreed,

    With the current administration, and crew, you must watch the sleight of hand, constantly... diversion is a useful tactic in the accomplishment of their hidden agenda. Transparent my ass.

  26. #26
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    Quote Originally Posted by musikron View Post
    My 2 cents?
    Dude doesn't even exist.
    This is just a distraction to keep you refocused away from what is important. Nothing he "leaked" was new information, hell I have known about this for at least 20 years, and ANYTHING reported by the MSM is not to be trusted.
    Fast & Furious, Benghazi, Alternative Energy, Obamacare, IRS, AP. and now a NSA scandal.

    OOPS !
    I almost forgot the scream about Global Warming that is currently being regurgitated.

    Quite the MSM distraction record ... They've been pretty busy helping shape public focus.

    The worst joke played on the public in a long time.

    But,
    Survivor started ... They can relax for a bit.

  27. #27
    gobsmacked Moderator
    Reputation: girlonbike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,481
    Bam. And here comes the politics.

  28. #28
    thread crapper
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    754
    It doesn't matter what we want or think, they're going to do what's in the best interest of their pocketbooks. Several politicians on both sides have been quoted as saying things along the lines of "they don't know what they want. We're going to do this anyway." They're all ticks that suck at the soul of all of us.

  29. #29
    check your six
    Reputation: sodak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,181
    I was all for Snowden when he just "leaked" the info to the American public. Informing unknowing Americans that their gov't is monitoring, spying, listening, and violating their rights is not a bad thing. However, once he ran to other countries and kept "leaking" to them, that's where I draw the line. As of now, he is an Enemy of the State and should be delt with accordingly. pop... he gone.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  30. #30
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    Bam. And here comes the politics.
    And still it exists

  31. #31
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    Quote Originally Posted by sodak View Post
    I was all for Snowden when he just "leaked" the info to the American public. Informing unknowing Americans that their gov't is monitoring, spying, listening, and violating their rights is not a bad thing. However, once he ran to other countries and kept "leaking" to them, that's where I draw the line. As of now, he is an Enemy of the State and should be delt with accordingly. pop... he gone.
    What would you do, if the government claimed you were what they've claimed Snowden is ?

    Stay here (GITMO), and be locked up forever without a trial.

    Those who think they truly live in the land of the free are fooling their-selves.

    G. Carlin said it best ... "They own you ... They got you by the balls."

  32. #32
    gobsmacked Moderator
    Reputation: girlonbike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,481
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    And still it exists
    Is that a challenge? Really?

  33. #33
    check your six
    Reputation: sodak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,181
    Ohh I agree bikeabuser. He was doomed once he opened his mouth. He could have ran BUT kept his mouth shut. Either way is a bad deal all around. I commend him for airing out the bad but I also appose him airing it out to foreign governments.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  34. #34
    thread crapper
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    754
    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    Is that a challenge? Really?
    The gauntlet has been thrown down. He's challenging your authority. He doesn't respect you. He thinks you're just a girl on a bike.

  35. #35
    banned
    Reputation: random walk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,666
    RandomGirlOnABike?

  36. #36
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    Quote Originally Posted by sodak View Post
    Ohh I agree bikeabuser. He was doomed once he opened his mouth. He could have ran BUT kept his mouth shut. Either way is a bad deal all around. I commend him for airing out the bad but I also appose him airing it out to foreign governments.
    Foreign government are not stupid.
    At best, he publicly confirmed what they secretly knew.

  37. #37
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    What's the difference between Snowden and a politician ? ... Pay-grade & immunity !

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smilinsteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8,605
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    And still it exists


    Politics in this matter may exist indeed, but bringing up global warming, Obama, Benghazi, the IRS and a few other things all in one sentence has to be one of the biggest troll posts ever. And inappropriate. And a sure way to get this thread closed.

    People obviously want to have a reasonable discussion about this without people like you trying to escalate it into another political sh*tstorm.

  39. #39
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    Snowden’s mission, ideals have been subsumed by international politics

    They say that idealists make for the best activists, but they do not always make for the sagest navigators of international politics. Edward Snowden’s ideals, which he said led him to reveal the U.S.’s secret surveillance programs, have landed him in the middle of some of the world’s most powerful actors. The 30-year-old and his mission appear to have been subsumed by forces much larger than himself, a world that turned out to be driven less by forces of good or evil than by the hard-nosed politics of international affairs.

    SNIP
    A good read, and hard to really argue with the points being made.

  40. #40
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    Politics in this matter may exist indeed, but bringing up global warming, Obama, Benghazi, the IRS and a few other things all in one sentence has to be one of the biggest troll posts ever. And inappropriate. And a sure way to get this thread closed.

    People obviously want to have a reasonable discussion about this without people like you trying to escalate it into another political sh*tstorm.
    That's our government for you ... Don't like it, don't discuss our government on MTBR
    Anything involving our government IS POLITICAL ... You can't get away from it.

    And for the record ... I wasn't the first to label it for what it is.
    But I'll voice my opinion's as long as the thread exists ... Because it's not trolling ... It's reality.

  41. #41
    High Desert MTBer
    Reputation: rockerc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,850
    Quote Originally Posted by random walk View Post
    RandomGirlOnABike?
    RandomGirlOnABike for Pres!

    Political enough?!?
    It's all Here. Now.

  42. #42
    thread crapper
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    754
    Nah, she needs to head up the NSA.

  43. #43
    High Desert MTBer
    Reputation: rockerc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,850
    Speeches write themselves for RandomGirlOnABike...
    It's all Here. Now.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    11,814
    Land of the Free?????

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smilinsteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8,605
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    That's our government for you ... Don't like it, don't discuss our government on MTBR
    Anything involving our government IS POLITICAL ... You can't get away from it.

    And for the record ... I wasn't the first to label it for what it is.
    But I'll voice my opinion's as long as the thread exists ... Because it's not trolling ... It's reality.
    I kind of figured you would justify your trolling instead of just getting the message to stick to the topic. All those other things you brought up were off topic no matter what kind of weak attempt you make to link them. And wrecking the thread for other people, just because you feel like it, is kind of selfish don't you think?

  46. #46
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    I kind of figured you would justify your trolling instead of just getting the message to stick to the topic. All those other things you brought up were off topic no matter what kind of weak attempt you make to link them. And wrecking the thread for other people, just because you feel like it, is kind of selfish don't you think?
    Who does the NSA work for ?

    And if you go back and look ... Those things you mentioned are all in reference to distractions (see the post above it).
    Who created the distractions to draw attention away from each successive incident ?

    So many questions.

  47. #47
    check your six
    Reputation: sodak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,181
    Quote Originally Posted by bikeabuser View Post
    Foreign government are not stupid.
    At best, he publicly confirmed what they secretly knew.
    True.... good point.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    332
    The gov't made repeated denials of conducting "listening" in the way that we now know they have been - literally collecting as many bits of data as is currently feasible, a brute force method. Every bit of communication - this was not made public nor do I think people should "assume" your gov't is doing this to you. I do not think we are any less secure because of this leak, and is certainly cause for public discussion. It's one thing for your gov't to propose, discuss, and enact in PUBLIC, it's another to do so behind closed doors without direct knowledge and consent.

    Anyway - not mtbing - let's go RIDE!

  49. #49
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    Quote Originally Posted by sodak View Post
    True.... good point.
    Strange thing is ... It's still a cold war, game.
    The names have changed, but the tactics are the same.

    No government trusts another, and each is trying to seek advantage (screw over) over an opponent, on many levels.

  50. #50
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,033
    The two-party system is a myth hiding behind a veil of deceit.

    A distraction, if you will.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. St. Edward State Park is not Duthie
    By TFitz in forum Washington
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: 06-10-2012, 02:25 PM
  2. J. Edward Mack Scout Reservation
    By LititzDude in forum Pennsylvania
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-18-2011, 10:59 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •