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  1. #26
    R T
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Again, did they file for a patent? Simply copying someone else's designs does in fact equate to theft. You can can call it what you want to but theft of intellectual property is in fact theft. You may choose to argue the letter of the law, but at the very core of it theft is theft and wrong is wrong. The fact that so many people seem to condone this is why we as a whole are winning the race to the bottom, settling for the lowest common denominator.
    Well said. Theft is theft, knock off's are knock off's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    And this is true but when you pay for the name you also pay for a warranty as well as quality control.
    Everyone should read that again. Key words, QUALITY CONTROL. Not to say any manufacturer is perfect but they at least have standards.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    Yep. I'm a broke college student with a passion for cycling. Same reason I goto ebay/pricepoint/jenson/chainreaction/wiggle/performance bike to buy an xtr chain for $30, when the lbs wants $100+.

    You're more than welcome to spend way more than me on stuff. But I'm not gunna join you

    Truth is, if I walked into an lbs and wanted a carbon race hardtail frame...I realistically would have had to shell out well over a grand. Probably closer to 2 grand. I saved alot. I can't wait til it breaks though
    You misinterpreted what he said, you saved money by cutting out the LBS, but thats a whole other thread right there. He meant saving money by buying a Chicago tool (harbor freight) and comparing it to a matco/snap-on tool and going on about how awesome it is and how stupid the rest are.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Again, did they file for a patent? Simply copying someone else's designs does in fact equate to theft. You can can call it what you want to but theft of intellectual property is in fact theft. You may choose to argue the letter of the law, but at the very core of it theft is theft and wrong is wrong. The fact that so many people seem to condone this is why we as a whole are winning the race to the bottom, settling for the lowest common denominator.
    No companies look for any way to make a profit and if they can steal some technology from the other guy they will, fact is in order to get a patent on a preexisting design it only has to be 30 percent different, sounds like alot but merely changing where or how a couple bolts attach now qualifies for said new patent.


    Look if name bands really believed they were losing enough money via underground sales to effect their bottom line they would simply change factories are make noted to the factory if it continues they will stop production with them.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Structure View Post
    So does this mean I can get a carbon Pivot 5.7 knock-off for $400??? Where! Where's the link? What about a carbon Stumpy FSR 29er EVO frame for $500??? Where!

    j/k...
    bikesdirect.com....

    just kidding

  5. #30
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    Never any shortage of people to purchase the cheapest possibble crap and then trumpet what a great deal it was and how anyone that bought anything better is a sucker.
    Conversely, no shortage of freds and barneys who buy the most expensive, most up-to-the-minute, most over hyped, most heavily marketed, and most over priced bling, and look down their noses at folks who can't afford it and buy cheaper equivalents - - oh, and still kick their asses.

    Gotta look at both sides of the bell curve.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  6. #31
    AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Conversely, no shortage of freds and barneys who buy the most expensive, most up-to-the-minute, most over hyped, most heavily marketed, and most over priced bling, and look down their noses at folks who can't afford it and buy cheaper equivalents - - oh, and still kick their asses.

    Gotta look at both sides of the bell curve.

    Barney's? When did the discussion take a turn to surfing?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Conversely, no shortage of freds and barneys who buy the most expensive, most up-to-the-minute, most over hyped, most heavily marketed, and most over priced bling, and look down their noses at folks who can't afford it and buy cheaper equivalents - - oh, and still kick their asses.

    Gotta look at both sides of the bell curve.



    Ahhhhhhhhhh, the old "resort to name calling trick". You win.

  8. #33
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post

    ].
    Well we have a real world example.

    What (non-chinese) company does this frame rip off?
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  9. #34
    AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Well we have a real world example.

    What (non-chinese) company does this frame rip off?




    Your sample size is too small.

  10. #35
    Dropshot Champ!
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    obviously its a sixer a9c


  11. #36
    R T
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Conversely, no shortage of freds and barneys who buy the most expensive, most up-to-the-minute, most over hyped, most heavily marketed, and most over priced bling, and look down their noses at folks who can't afford it and buy cheaper equivalents - - oh, and still kick their asses.

    Gotta look at both sides of the bell curve.
    See this is the response I love. Not everyone that buys the most expensive or nicest bikes out there look down their noses at people. I don't give a damn what you ride as long as you ride. Do you think because I ride a top fuel with xtr I look down at my friend who just bought an aluminum norco with slx? Hell no, he's riding. I guess when he goes to get his road bike with 105 I should tell him to find someone to ride with because I have super record 11 and he's just not in my league. Maybe educate yourself before you go ranting about what other people do and why they do it.

  12. #37
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    dwt... people clearly don't enjoy hearing that they may have overspent. basic logic.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    Ahhhhhhhhhh, the old "resort to name calling trick". You win.
    More like you can dish it out but can't take it . Tit for tat
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    More like you can dish it out but can't take it . Tit for tat


    My, isn't that grown up. You win again.

  15. #40
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    More like you can dish it out but can't take it . Tit for tat
    Take a look at his last 60 posts or so....nothing of value...just criticism of member comments/thoughts...almost as though he does not even ride a bike..

  16. #41
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    Ahhhhhhhhhh, the old "resort to name calling trick". You win.
    Quote Originally Posted by R T View Post
    See this is the response I love. Not everyone that buys the most expensive or nicest bikes out there look down their noses at people. I don't give a damn what you ride as long as you ride. Do you think because I ride a top fuel with xtr I look down at my friend who just bought an aluminum norco with slx? Hell no, he's riding. I guess when he goes to get his road bike with 105 I should tell him to find someone to ride with because I have super record 11 and he's just not in my league. Maybe educate yourself before you go ranting about what other people do and why they do it.
    Well DUH. The point is that not everyone that buys a Chinese bike frame is a thief who laughs at others spending too much money anymore than the converse. Both exist at the extremes of the bell curve though. Maybe read through the thread before making a non sequitur post eh?
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    Take a look at his last 60 posts or so....nothing of value...just criticism of member comments/thoughts...almost as though he does not even ride a bike..



    Say's the Chinese knock off fanboi. Your contribution is stellar.

  18. #43
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    Say's the Chinese knock off fanboi. Your contribution is stellar.
    Floyd is in da house!! What what! Chill pill. Clearly you come to mtbr each day to pick e-fights. Go to a gaming forum instead... Go back and read your posts....seriously.

    We ALL are guilty to some extent, but you sir..you are out of control with negative remarks.

    Good luck with that..

    .03

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    say's the chinese knock off fanboi. Your contribution is stellar.
    qed.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  20. #45
    AZ
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    No disappointment in this one, devolved into the usual poo slinging.

  21. #46
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    Just real quick to touch on a subject earlier. My work comp is being gay so I wont be quoting it. But...it was the comment on an individual building themselves a frame that copies a trek/kona/niner, etc....


    If i have the ability and knowledge to make my own frames and I decide to build my own and make it exactly like a name brand, but for my own usage. There is absolutely nothing wrong for it. In fact I would applaud someone for hand building something most likely built in bulk in a factory in taiwan. Now if I decide to make more and market and sell those bikes? Well, theres the rub. Thats copyright infringement. Its exactly like if I buy a cd, then make a copy to keep in my car so my original copy doesnt get scratched/melted/stolen theres nothing wrong with it. But I cant break out the CD ripper and open up my own music store.


    As for the chinese/taiwanese/japanese/theyalllookalikeanese (<-joke btw, dont get your panties in a bunch) off brand/knock off frames......If you want to purchase those, by all means go ahead. Its the company's issue if they are commiting fraud or copyright infringement. Not yours. However, I personally (this is indeed 100% my own opinion, if you take offense to it I pity you) would not feel comfortable buying one over a big name or known fabricator. In one way or another in life you get what you pay for.

    The biggest reason is I prefer to stimulate and support my local company. Even though my Giant was built in taiwan, it was bought from a locally owned and operated independent bike shop. It was delivered to that bike shop my an american truck driver working for an american operated freight company (unless it was DHL, but meh). So forth and on down the line.
    2010 Giant Yukon FX
    Pure XCR Wheelset/Geax Saguaro Tires/Tubeless
    Bike Weight Lost: 2.48lbs (1124g)

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I said "rough equivalent" and "imitation." Never said "same as" nor do I believe they are. I believe they are an inexpensive product made from carbon fiber in some factory in china that makes a ton of carbon fiber products including bike frames (and kayak paddles). The frames are light and perform just fine. If you think I'm going to get into some poseur b.s. about they way they "feel" you're out of luck. They are bike frames. They work. They haven't broken. They are what they are, and I frankly have no clue if they are "the same as" or "as good as" a brand name. I doubt I'm a decent enough cyclist off-road or on road to notice, anyway. But I do notice my checkbook balance, and it looks a lot heavier than it would otherwise for a "similar" product.
    Then what was the point of your original post citing that article?

    Why didn't you just create a thread that says you like your no-name carbon frame? That you wanted a carbon frame and this was the only option within what you were willing to spend. That it may possibly be a little heavier or not ride exactly like some of the higher-end frames, but you are happy with it. You're kind of saying that now, but your original post and some of your other comments were clearly implying something different.
    Warning: may contain sarcasm and/or crap made up in an attempt to feel important.

  23. #48
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    My, isn't that grown up. You win again.
    Don't start a poo war if you don't want poo on your face.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  24. #49
    AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Don't start a poo war if you don't want poo on your face.


    Uhmmmm, your both acting like kids but I believe you started the poo flinging. Just sayin.

  25. #50
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Your sample size is too small.
    It only takes one to disprove any assertion that they are ALL ripoffs, knock offs, copies, counterfeits, etc.

    If this frame is none of the above, then it is simply a good deal.

    For all who wonder what the point of this thread, this is it. All carbon fiber frames are made in China. They certainly are NOT all equal. But the fact is you can buy one direct for a budget price - and have to feel low down and bad about it. Not all of them are dirty, though many are. Use your head. Caveat Emptor
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

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