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  1. #1
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    Broken 9357 frame in bike/frame discussion

    Link: MOTOBECANE 9357 : Broken Frame

    The OP reports a catastrophic frame failure while he was JRA on a car path(whatever a car path is). Reportedly bought the bike from bikesdirect in FLA 6 or so months ago.

    He seems to have a major problem with the strength/longevity of the frame. Looks like he took a saw to the top tube. Entertaining reading, IMO. He says he used to race BMX races for cash back in the day, and his riding style "trances" the locals, so he's pretty credible in my book.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by grnxb
    Link: MOTOBECANE 9357 : Broken Frame

    The OP reports a catastrophic frame failure while he was JRA on a car path(whatever a car path is). Reportedly bought the bike from bikesdirect in FLA 6 or so months ago.

    He seems to have a major problem with the strength/longevity of the frame. Looks like he took a saw to the top tube. Entertaining reading, IMO. He says he used to race BMX races for cash back in the day, and his riding style "trances" the locals, so he's pretty credible in my book.
    You're a terrible reporter.

    Besides, Just who do you think YOU are? A bit pretentious it would seem. You quote me here as if you know exactly what happened, as if I was telling tales that I "Illegedely" purchased the bike in Florida (not FLA) 6 months or so, as if you actually had your facts straight.

    I never raced BMX for cash, in fact, I never ever said so. I bought the bike LESS than 6 months ago, not that you should care. As for the saw remark, from the photos, it's almost impossible to determine what happened even though I mentioned quite clearly what happened - I'm sure you didn't read that far though. "Catastrophic" describes something of a disaster or a horrible tragedy, like a string of tornados erasing a half a state killing more than 20 people in the middle of the night - not quite the same as someone getting thrown over the handlebars gaining a shoulder and back injury.

    Now you have made yourself a liar, Story-Teller, and Tatle-Tale, with your display of that thick and pretentious ego in a single post, you embarrass the human race. Well done. Of course, with a name like GRNXB, I suppose you aren't afraid of destroying your character online, since your next screename could be GROXB, which sounds cooler.

    I really hope, for the sake of the human race, that you're not seriously like this in person, otherwise we're doomed.

    ----

    to the rest of all these MOTOBECANE people in this forum (okay..), go ahead and read up, not only does this fool offer the most read-worthy replies and information, it really is funny. The only reason the thread isn't here, is because I didn't bother to look further than I did.
    Last edited by ZaqHydN; 02-08-2008 at 08:31 AM.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    You're a terrible reporter.

    Besides, Just who do you think YOU are? A bit pretentious it would seem. You quote me here as if you know exactly what happened, as if I was telling tales that I "Illegedely" purchased the bike in Florida (not FLA) 6 months or so, as if you actually had your facts straight.

    I never raced BMX for cash, in fact, I never ever said so. I bought the bike LESS than 6 months ago, not that you should care. As for the saw remark, from the photos, it's almost impossible to determine what happened even though I mentioned quite clearly what happened - I'm sure you didn't read that far though. "Catastrophic" describes something of a disaster or a horrible tragedy, like a string of tornados erasing a half a state killing more than 20 people in the middle of the night - not quite the same as someone getting thrown over the handlebars gaining a shoulder and back injury.

    Now you have made yourself a liar, Story-Teller, and Tatle-Tale, with your display of that thick and pretentious ego in a single post, you embarrass the human race. Well done. Of course, with a name like GRNXB, I suppose you aren't afraid of destroying your character online, since your next screename could be GROXB, which sounds cooler.

    I really hope, for the sake of the human race, that you're not seriously like this in person, otherwise we're doomed.

    ----

    to the rest of all these MOTOBECANE people in this forum (okay..), go ahead and read up, not only does this fool offer the most read-worthy replies and information, it really is funny. The only reason the thread isn't here, is because I didn't bother to look further than I did.
    You're funny. I refer directly to your posts in the bike and frame forum, virtually quoting you (but yet I'm a liar). Alright.

    Back to the facts: You stated: "I raced with a group that would compete for CHC (cash)..." My fault, I assumed that you also raced for cash. In any event, my reference to that as a way of having credibility was meant to be a joke. Stand on a step ladder and you might get it.

    Also, in my book, 6 months or so ago could also equal "less than 6 months". Honestly, giving or taking a month isn't much of a stretch.

    As far as coming up with a definition for catastrophic...sorry, I thought that a major failure (riding along a car path and having the frame break apart would qualify in my opinion) would be catastrophic.

    Also, when referring to other's uses of words, can you try to at least spell correctly. Illegedly is not allegedly.


    Lastly, I'm sorry you overlooked my suggestion that you post your problem in this forum (you might notice post # 3). I guess you must really want your problem resolved as you've put some much quality time into getting satisfaction. Did your seeing eye dog rip the mouse from your hands and click on this forum? (<------serious sarcasm right here folks)

    Thanks for playing along.

    P.S. Again, so I know exactly, how does your riding style trance the locals.? Sounds XC friendly. (sarcasm again)

  4. #4
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    When I catch Knat's, I feed them to my fish.

    >splat<
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  5. #5
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    Splat.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  6. #6
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    I’m going to say something that’s out of my department as I don’t work for Motobecane, so it’s not really my place…

    All this fighting and going back and forth out of pride or a strong belief in what we feel is right. IMO is doing more damage then good… Every time someone jumps on a individual right or wrong is giving Motobecane, a black eye and giving that individual more desirer to continue in their pursuit.

    I shouldn’t talk as I’ve jump to the defense of the brand more times then I could count… Did I ever make a difference probably not because this stuff seems never ending. It seems as BD needs to work on their customer services department. Because, by the time the frustrated customer post something here they are already in a frenzy.

    It is getting too personal and that’s not the way it should be… Someone should be able to complain about their troubles ( However, I should be done in a fashion that shows undeniable truth) and a rep from BD should come and take care of the situation… Done! With no drama. “If it is legitimate complaint“. If that process can’t be completed then the cycle will never end.

    If the cycle never ends… Then who knows. I believe in the potential of the brand… It could be something so much more. They just need to resolved some CS issues.

    Good Luck!
    Last edited by Moto Rider; 02-08-2008 at 09:39 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moto Rider
    Iím going to say something thatís out of my department as I donít work for Motobecane, so itís not really my placeÖ

    ...

    If the cycle never endsÖ Then who knows. I believe in the potential of the brandÖ It could be something so much more. They just need to resolved some CS issues.

    Good Luck!

    Well put Moto Rider, thank you.

    You seem like the type of person I could understand here. Nice to make the acquantince.

    I'm certianly not innocent to the bickering, however, I'll never let it go on and on - I've since added the knats to my ignore list once I finger them as chumps. I hope for greater intelligence and science when it comes to stuff like this.

    I've said, I support the brand, and still do - and agree the CS end needs to be managed.

    I'm just waiting to ride still, 11 days later and still no ride. I know how long it takes to build the bike, I used to work there for cryin out loud, I guess my issue isn't high on their priority list - again, CS is key to making happy customers. I'll be paying them a visit tomorow, perhaps to lend a hand in building my bike, since it would seem necessessary. haha.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  8. #8
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    So what happened? You mention you are getting another bike built, are you paying for it? I take it that since no other photos of the frame are forthcoming, and you are a photographer, you are no longer in posession of said frame? Just wondering. I also have a Fly. I have ridden it off road without a problem.
    -Scott

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rallymerkur
    So what happened? You mention you are getting another bike built, are you paying for it? I take it that since no other photos of the frame are forthcoming, and you are a photographer, you are no longer in posession of said frame? Just wondering. I also have a Fly. I have ridden it off road without a problem.

    Ello.

    The owner of the company is going to look at the frame and decide what he wants to do about it. The new frame (Fantom) just arrived there 2 days ago, I should be riding my new frame next week if the shop owner dosen't get lazy about it, although it's now been ther for three days.

    I do say, the FLY is a sweet ride, and I've heard so many good things about it. I just perfer not to take the chance on this one in fear of it happening 40 miles out.

    I should get the frame back if I'm going to have to pay for the replacement, but if he replaces it under warranty, it is likely I won't get the frame to mount on my wall. Should I get it back. there will be photos in that case.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  10. #10
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    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  11. #11
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    LOL... one of the posters in the main thread about this went to the troll's myspace, found this pic...


    And id'ed the area in question as a haven for dirt jumping as he's from the same area. So...dirt jumping an XC race bike is "just riding along a pathway" now is it?
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  12. #12
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    There is frequently a difference between heat and light; and between opinion and fact. I have read this thread with some interest and I think it is time for the bright light of the truth. So I will qualify suitability anything below that is not a known fact; everything else is know to me for certain.
     Zack [the OP] is an EX employee
     Zack is an EX or current BMX rider
     Zack does stunts on bikes
     Zack has ask me to come watch him do stunts so I would see how good he was at ‘landing’
     My employees have told me that [1] Zack has been ask to stop doing stunts in our store [2] Zack was advised that a FLY is not designed for stunts or hucking & [3] Zack has bragged about his jumping & trick ability
     An unrelated customer has reported that he saw Zack with the FLY at a dirt jumping track.
     The FLY 9357 Zack returned to us had multiple crash marks on both pedals, both sides of the bars, both sides of the saddle, and on the rear der.
     ALL BIKES are designed with a specific use in mind
     FLYs are designed as cross country & adventure racing bikes. The FLY 9357 and FLY Team are the lightest XC bikes sold in the USA at under $5000 [until the FLY TEAM Ti comes out]
     I have seen 7 FLYs with broken frames out of thousands of FLYs sold. All had been used for jumping or hucking. It is not hard to break an ultra light frame by use beyond it’s intended purpose.
     Moto FANTOM models are designed for all-mountain riding. Out of thousands of Fantoms sold I have never seen a broken one. [even though these bikes are often jumped, used for stunts, and even things more extreme]
     Kinesis makes the FLY and FANTOM frames. Kinesis is the largest high grade frame maker in the world. Kinesis would gladly give us a replacement frame if we ever have a defect.
     NO expert in the bicycle industry I know would call Zack’s frame a defect. In fact, most would laugh openly at such a claim.
     Even though Zack’s frame was not defect by any evaluation method in our industry; I offered him a new Fantom hardtail frame for free. He declined this and demanded a Full Suspension frame for free.
     I agreed to waive {as we always do} the labor which is not covered by warranty and sell Zack a new Full Suspension frame with Rock Shox rear shock at $200. This is about the value of the rear shock alone. Zack got a Fantom DS completely rebuilt from his Fly for $200.
     In conclusion; I think we did more than any other bicycle company would for the customer under similar circumstances. I would act exactly the same weather Zack was an ex-employee or not; weather he was a forum member or not.

    There are other facts concerning Zack’s behavior that make this case even stranger; however posting those details would not really help most readers understand what happened here. And judging from the responses to the OP – I think most understood the situation even before my post.
    Last edited by bikesdirect; 02-13-2008 at 01:55 PM.

  13. #13
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    wow...

  14. #14
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    Smile just a FYI

    I have a 2005 ( i think) fly pro. I weight 170 and have taken it down some 1/2 and occasional 3 foot drops/jumps and never had an issue. the bike is not meant for jumping, but can take some abuse.
    [SIZE=1]<IBEX ASTA EXPERT X9><Motobecane Fly Pro><[/SIZE][SIZE=1]HOOK EM' HORNS[/SIZE][SIZE=1]><Go Cardinals!><Scotty Doesn't Know>[/SIZE]

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    LOL... one of the posters in the main thread about this went to the troll's myspace, found this pic...

    And id'ed the area in question as a haven for dirt jumping as he's from the same area. So...dirt jumping an XC race bike is "just riding along a pathway" now is it?
    Ah, yet another knat.

    The photo, if you examine it, does not show anything looking remotely like a tree, jerky chicken, overpass, or even a jump. It does, however show a bike in two peices and the skidmark left in soft dirt made when I grabbed the bars to hold on for life (har), and the vehicle path.

    Whatever you say, I'm sure you were there and saw the whole thing, and maybe so did this annonymous other person.

    Congratulations for being the second person (ever) to make my ignore list. Knat.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  16. #16
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    Final disposition

    1.  Zack [the OP] is an EX employee
    2.  Zack is an EX or current BMX rider
    3.  Zack does stunts on bikes
    4.  Zack has ask me to come watch him do stunts so I would see how good he was at ‘landing’
    5.  My employees have told me that [1] Zack has been ask to stop doing stunts in our store [2] Zack was advised that a FLY is not designed for stunts or hucking & [3] Zack has bragged about his jumping & trick ability
    6.  An unrelated customer has reported that he saw Zack with the FLY at a dirt jumping track.
    7.  The FLY 9357 Zack returned to us had multiple crash marks on both pedals, both sides of the bars, both sides of the saddle, and on the rear der.
    8.  ALL BIKES are designed with a specific use in mind
    9.  FLYs are designed as cross country & adventure racing bikes. The FLY 9357 and FLY Team are the lightest XC bikes sold in the USA at under $5000 [until the FLY TEAM Ti comes out]
    10.  I have seen 7 FLYs with broken frames out of thousands of FLYs sold. All had been used for jumping or hucking. It is not hard to break an ultra light frame by use beyond it’s intended purpose.
    11.  Moto FANTOM models are designed for all-mountain riding. Out of thousands of Fantoms sold I have never seen a broken one. [even though these bikes are often jumped, used for stunts, and even things more extreme]
    12.  Kinesis makes the FLY and FANTOM frames. Kinesis is the largest high grade frame maker in the world. Kinesis would gladly give us a replacement frame if we ever have a defect.
    13.  NO expert in the bicycle industry I know would call Zack’s frame a defect. In fact, most would laugh openly at such a claim.
    14.  Even though Zack’s frame was not defect by any evaluation method in our industry; I offered him a new Fantom hardtail frame for free. He declined this and demanded a Full Suspension frame for free.
    15.  I agreed to waive {as we always do} the labor which is not covered by warranty and sell Zack a new Full Suspension frame with Rock Shox rear shock at $200. This is about the value of the rear shock alone. Zack got a Fantom DS completely rebuilt from his Fly for $200.
    16.  In conclusion; I think we did more than any other bicycle company would for the customer under similar circumstances. I would act exactly the same weather Zack was an ex-employee or not; weather he was a forum member or not.
    Here's my reply to this long winded one:

    1. True

    2. EX

    3. False, a wheelie or bunny hop is not a stunt, they're basic riding manuvers.

    4. False, partially. a. I offered to alleiviate your concern of "Wheelie Dammage" by showing you HOW I ride one. b. The FLY is designed for XC RACING, is it not reasonable to assume it can handle racing conditions? c. Incomplete. My past abilities, whenever I refer to how I used to jump, it is almost always followed up with something much like, "that was when I used to race" or "that was a while ago". I haven't jumped anything larger than a curb in the last 3 years.

    5. False. Your "Unrelated Customer" likely has never ridden with me unless he's a she, in which case, the picnic rides were nice, OR, they knew me when I had my Gary Fisher (3 years ago) and I used to ride that pretty hard, very ridgid frame, OR, this person is just outright lying, again, it's been 3 years and I only 'jump' curbs eh. I like to meet this person.

    6. False. Crash Marks on the pedals, derailur, and seat?! You mean the potential marks that come from lying the bike down on the sidewalk from time to time? No kickstand bravo. You show me someone that rides their bike for real with no scuffs on those parts and we'll compare milage ridden.

    7. True - duh.

    8. PLUG. again, does the photo indicate anything "Adventuristic" and was I racing? No, so I should have been okay.

    9. ? Hucking? What is that anyway? Does that mean riding on a trail? If so, then I'm totally at fault. 7 broken frames eh, that's 7 potential deaths if you think about it.

    10. The Fantom I now have is quite possibily the most responsive and controllable frame I've yet ridden since my Auburn CR back in 89'. It has the reflexes of a knat, I love it. I can actually feel my spokes, almost ALL the power from the pedal goes to the sproket and hits the ground, and the front end flex is minimal, almost not worth measuring. I think my next upgrade will be a set of *****in wheels that have a more solid feel.

    11. Perhaps. However, my college friends would love to proove it - although I'm sure it would be ridiculous to ask for the frame so I could send it to them. They're professors that teach at a university, one is a mechanical engineer & physisist and the other is a scientist & chemist. They thought the idea of using it as a class experiement was a really great. I'm an audio engineer, in which case, I can certify that the bike is extremely quiet.

    12. a. "by any evaluation in our industry" is a plausable deniable - in otherwords, were is examined by the engineers at NASA or Lockheed Martin, they might find something the bicycle guys don't care to measure to. b. True. I've had some accumulating back pain since the incident that has convinced me to let go of hard-tail frames, possibly for good. c. False. I didn't demand, in fact, I mentioned to you on the phone, that I was telling you what I "wanted" and also wanted to come to a resonable solution, which we did do as mentioned in No. 13.

    13. True. $200 was a very resonable "Upgrade" fee, and most certianly impacted my final disclosure about your customer service.

    14. True, most likely. I never blamed anyone from the company about the break, just a certian person within your company that aparently thinks he knows me better than he actually does, that's okay - I don't care, I did a bunch of great things to improve the workshop's workflow while I was there, none of which I was asked to do, heck, I had to INSIST on making a parts drawer (paid for and built by me) because someone can't put anything away, and to this day it rocks. I was also the one responsible for re-organizing the way the bikes are stored and where the repairs are now, versus the carnival method that was used before. I also gave the bike shop my favorite portable speakers, not even asking for them back when I left because I thought of it as a necessessary improvement. Oh, I also initiated and christened the second-workbench, which moved from where the rack was to the side since I left, still, if you want something done right, do it your self, right? What else, ah, almost everytime I'm there, customers cling to me for info on bikes, and often the C-man (you know) has asked me if I wouldn't mind "covering" for him while he loaded up a bike for a previous customer, all of which I did because I do, in fact, like the product, and I don't, in fact, blame the company for the broken frame - heck, we all know NASA has had a few incalculable errors in it's past that they could not have imagined happening. God bless them all.

    I did more for that bike shop in the few months I worked there, and even a few months after, than any employee (and possibly ex employee) before me has done for it, because I believe in a good product, and an honest warranty, and solid customer service.

    The name is Zaq, it's my nickname I've had for over 12 years, just like the name on this thread (cept for the HydN, my pre-USA family name) - Given the opportunity, you would come to know that: I'm a nice guy; I believe in doing the right thing; giving credit where and to whom it belongs; I protect my rights and the rights of others when needed; I won't lie for anyone; I'm objective and constructive; and I also hold no grudges against you or the other guy (some of the children in this forum, however, define a perfect example of why God gave us the "ignore list").

    Furthermore, I enjoy riding with others that aren't addicted to nicotine or alcohol, and in a few months should be riding trails again (the shoulder), and looking forward to actually getting time to ride, my work schedule has kept me on the street for the most.

    Is there anyone from the Swuanee Bicycle Ascociation here or what? I used to be a member of that group (in my Gary Fisher days), a few of those guys and gals would set it straight to those of you that can only imagine. Whatever - i really don't need to justify here, It only counts on dirt, not on paper.

    Anyone that would like to actually get to know me well enough to tell stories from experience, rather than from spectulation, I openly invite conversation. To those that only wish to blast hatered, greed, and delusion, I kindly ask to drop my name from your mailing list. no one likes Junk Mail.

    As for Mike (not Mickey) - Aside from BOTH of our behaviours, I still think we averted any real arguments very well - Like I said to you on the phone, I wasn't attacking you with a lawyer, I was simply doing the very same thing you likely would have done in the case of an injury accident, making sure your back end is covered in case you find out you won't be able to pick up a gallon of milk with your primary arm for the rest of your life because of a bike frame splitting in two under normal riding conditions, and I would recommend the same procedure to anyone. However, if there ever is the unlikely chance of this happening again, my first action won't be to take the bike to the dealer, rather, to call 911, then call my lawyer while I'm still on the ground covered in dirt at the scene. My civility is what kept me from doing so in this case, I assumed that it was obvious, considering what happened and how. So, Mike, with this in mind, i simply ask you this, Which method would you have preferred? (retorical)

    My final disposition on this "case" or thread is:

    1. a resonable solution has been rendered in a reasonable time.

    2. The customer service at the retail end remains "in training" while the customer service of the manufacture was very well handled.

    3. My opinion of Mike is as reasonable business owner with good ethics, however should consider getting to know his "OP" before making claims openly about him as fact (it's called Libel in the legal world).

    4. MOTOBECANE is a great brand to ride, I've always said so, and even with a face full of dirt, still do say so.

    5. The FLY 9357 I would only recommend to lightweight riders (under 150#) and the bike should come with a manual (and legal indemnification of accidental death & dismembermant) that actually discusses it's purpose, design, and potential hazards (my Fly did not come with a manual, C-man tosses them).

    6. It's spelled with a "Z" an "a" and a "q", as in "Zaq"; commonly pronounced as Zack, and is meant to be pronounced as "Jaque" as in Qusto, which my inner circle of friends and family know well.

    7. The Fantom DS frame, even with the rear shock, has the feel of an extension of the mind and body - a nice feeling to have again (it's been over a decade since my Trek 930), I'm sure I will need a set of wheels built to match it's "appropiate use".

    8. I'm thankfully done with this thread (unless I get the frame back to send to my college mates), my initial intention was to inform, because I believe in history, science, and education, then I had to defend myself (i still don't know why - none of these people seem to get it, besides a small handfull), and now it seems to be completely off topic everytime I login to it (It's about the bike people, not me). So to all the lovers of hatered and the knats out there - enjoy, but do so without expecting a response about it from me.

    Mike, Thank you for handling the situation, I only hope that in the future, you get to know the kind of person I am to others.

    To those that get it - Thank you for your reasonable input and questions, you have been promoted with your objectivity and your quest for truth and knowledge.

    Everyone else - I suppose I can only pray for clarity and peace.

    - - - - - ->8 INSERT BIG GROUP HUG HERE 8<- - - - - - -
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

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    zaq...so you say you're an audio engineer....answer this...would you use a neumann u47 to close mic a kick drum with? probably not...for fear of damage to the diaphragm, right? or even overall just bad sound quality... you'd prob use a 421, d112, or a beta 52....maybe an audix d4...my point is there is a correct tool for the job...there is no way that you riding that bike along, doing nothing more than riding, could have caused not one, but TWO tube failures...you obviously were jumping, or hucking, or doing something you shouldn't have been doing ON THAT BIKE...and no matter what you say, you're not going to convince anyone else around here that you were just riding along and the bike failed...and if you were jumping etc, i'd say that's a testament to the build quality of the frame, being that it didn't fail at a welded joint...b/c (as i used to be a weldor) the most likely point of failure for anything that has been welded, is the point at WHICH it is welded (actually just to either side of it, in the head affect zone...) being that the bike failed right in the middle of the tube, it's clear that a huge amount of stress was placed on that frame...also, you said something about your wheels still being straight...well ofcourse they're still straight, b/c when you overshot the landing ramp, you prob landed perfectly straight, with no lateral stresses on the wheel, bottomed out the fork, and broke the frame...wheels are very strong when pulling in direct tension of the spoke...laterally they aren't as strong...especially a racing wheel like those vuelta's....anyway, mike didnt' have to be so nice, and c-man (i know the guy personally) DOES know what he's talking about, and i guarantee he saw right through your story just as everyone else does....you keep saying that you're so loyal to the motobecane brand, well why did you go and start up such a sh1t storm on this forum, before mike had even remedied the situation...he didn't HAVE to be so nice...and honestly, i hope he never does business with you again after all the crap you've spouted off here...i know i wouldn't.

    and would you PLEASE tell me EXACTLY where this vehicle path is? i used to live in jacksonville, up till about a month ago, and that pic looks exactly like beach and peach, where everyone goes to dirt jump...people also so take their 4wd trucks back there too, which is where that tire track going up the hill i can guarantee is coming from....how bout you get on google maps, and send me some coordinates....

  18. #18
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    Unless you would like to let my college friends examine the frame, button ur lips.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    There is frequently a difference between heat and light; and between opinion and fact. I have read this thread with some interest and I think it is time for the bright light of the truth. So I will qualify suitability anything below that is not a known fact; everything else is know to me for certain.

     The FLY 9357 Zack returned to us had multiple crash marks on both pedals, both sides of the bars, both sides of the saddle, and on the rear der.
    Based on the fact that you are willing to tell stories about something that can later be proved with photos (like the frame) of the parts in question

    I thought about how Mikey made me look like a liar to the world, when in fact, I don't lie, which one would come to appreciate about me if they chose to get to know me. Now you have people calling me names and believing that my character is dishonest.

    Perhaps you, and the rest think I'm just some kid trying to pull one over on the big guy? As a business owner, it's a write-off for you, what's your problem? and for those of you that are keen enough to believe a guy that has everything to gain from stomping my reputation and hiding the real proof so he looks like he's being the saviour and I'm the wolf - duh you, I'd wait a few more ice-cream seasons before comming back on that.

    Mike, your over-dramatization of the bikes condition makes simply makes YOU the one telling tales , because I have all those "Crash-Marked" parts in my posession, and I am, in fact a photographer - and I do, in fact have the stones to photograph every inch of the bike simply to proove your tales are sour, and your motives questionable. You brought out the claims, now I'm bringing you the check.

    With that said, here are professional quality images of the so-called "Crash-Marked" parts he mentioned, along with a few other common parts that, in my 25 years of riding experience have damaged before by abusing and crashing. It's possible I've crashed more times in just my BMX days before I was even 18, than you have changed tires on a bicycle.

    Not my best "Forensic" work, but I'll let all you experienced riders out there that have been through a few bikes to know what parts get wreked by stunt riding and crashing. You make the call - I think they look rather "new" and well kept, dunno, what do your peadls, derailurs, seats, bar-ends, wheels and axle bolts look like?



    I want you all to know, I REALLY tried to photograph the worst of the so called dammage. - but it was difficult to find any at all indicating even a single crash or any abuse.

    To all you riders out there that think I'm full of it, ask him for detailed photos of the frame damage (the paintjob was still immaculate, like new), and to let me submit the frame for a scientific analysis from real engineers and scientists, along with a classroom full of well educated students trying to earn an 'A'.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  19. #19
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    Truth hurts, punk.

    You can close this thread now. I'm done flexing my truth.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  20. #20
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    that has to be one of the most annoying posts to read....EVER.....try to cut down on the use of bold and oversized font from now on....thanks. and i didn't quite understand the "truth hurts punk" part....could you elaborate?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by snobrder5
    zaq...so you say you're an audio engineer....answer this...would you use a neumann u47 to close mic a kick drum with? probably not...for fear of damage to the diaphragm, right? or even overall just bad sound quality... you'd prob use a 421, d112, or a beta 52....maybe an audix d4...my point is there is a correct tool for the job...there is no way that you riding that bike along, doing nothing more than riding, could have caused not one, but TWO tube failures...you obviously were jumping, or hucking, or doing something you shouldn't have been doing ON THAT BIKE...and no matter what you say, you're not going to convince anyone else around here that you were just riding along and the bike failed...and if you were jumping etc, i'd say that's a testament to the build quality of the frame, being that it didn't fail at a welded joint...b/c (as i used to be a weldor) the most likely point of failure for anything that has been welded, is the point at WHICH it is welded (actually just to either side of it, in the head affect zone...) being that the bike failed right in the middle of the tube, it's clear that a huge amount of stress was placed on that frame...also, you said something about your wheels still being straight...well ofcourse they're still straight, b/c when you overshot the landing ramp, you prob landed perfectly straight, with no lateral stresses on the wheel, bottomed out the fork, and broke the frame...wheels are very strong when pulling in direct tension of the spoke...laterally they aren't as strong...especially a racing wheel like those vuelta's....anyway, mike didnt' have to be so nice, and c-man (i know the guy personally) DOES know what he's talking about, and i guarantee he saw right through your story just as everyone else does....you keep saying that you're so loyal to the motobecane brand, well why did you go and start up such a sh1t storm on this forum, before mike had even remedied the situation...he didn't HAVE to be so nice...and honestly, i hope he never does business with you again after all the crap you've spouted off here...i know i wouldn't.

    and would you PLEASE tell me EXACTLY where this vehicle path is? i used to live in jacksonville, up till about a month ago, and that pic looks exactly like beach and peach, where everyone goes to dirt jump...people also so take their 4wd trucks back there too, which is where that tire track going up the hill i can guarantee is coming from....how bout you get on google maps, and send me some coordinates....
    oo, you know what a microphone is, even a diaphram. I'm impressed dude. really. So you like the comfy studio gigs eh, based on your choices. I prefer the million watt concert gigs myself (not anymore - too many single-serving 'friends' and there's no real purpose in life touring). I've been a concert engineer for over 12 years, working with bands like the Goo Goo Dolls, Third Eye Blind, and about a hundered other bands worth mentioning more than a microphone. I've used a Studer Vista 7 in a recording session for an orchestra involving over 90 channels of sudio mixed down to a 24 channel surround sound experiment. You would blow your wad if you heard it - DBX likely won't release the recording for another 5 years. (FLEX FLEX) oo, look at the mounds.

    The Beach & Peach? you're way off eh. This isn't even a bike trail dude, it rides around a new retention pond and is harmless unless you try to kill yourself on a FLY

    Since you're obviously on Mikey's side here, you can stuff your bags full of the same garbage he fills his with. I though good of him up until he lied to the public in a feble attempt to make me look like i'm full os BS. Fact is, he has everything to loose from telling the truth, so being the nice guy was the right thing to do - Libel, on the otherhand I did not expect from him.

    When he called me after I wrote to, who I thought was, the manufacture, and was actually him, his attitude was very coarse, and aggressive. I have a strict policy about arguing on the phone, I don't. So, i interrupted him, and corrected his previous preceptions about what his employEE spake of, and laid it out flat - I'm asking for a a replacement, not demanding - and the lawyer is to cover a possible shoulder tear, not to attack him in any way. After that, the call went back to nice, like I said, I am nice - but you guys don't even seem to care, should I believe what anyone says about you, regardless of wether or not they know you, or should I read into who you are.

    I think I've read well, I've worked with 12bangers like you for years, they're annoying and don't even know what the CGL is for. Products are easy - putting together thousands of concerts, on time, the first time, every time, not so easy.

    Knat.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by snobrder5
    that has to be one of the most annoying posts to read....EVER.....try to cut down on the use of bold and oversized font from now on....thanks. and i didn't quite understand the "truth hurts punk" part....could you elaborate?
    sure, you're a knat.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  23. #23
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    i'll agree with you about there not being a future in touring....i've done live audio since i was about 16...so that's about 10 years now...ran foh for ratdog at a regional show down at the pompano beach ampitheatre, did monitors for audio adrenaline on a midas h3000, but most of my gigs were smaller regional stuff, and fulltiming with the orlando philharmonic orchestra, doing all their outdoor gigs...done a few with ground stacked vertec's, multiple meyer delay lines, running 50+ mics on a 32ch midas verona and a&h submixers...anyone can do rock and roll...making a symphony sound REAL and ACCURATE is harder....

  24. #24
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    I don't know why I care but...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    ...Not my best "Forensic" work, but I'll let all you experienced riders out there that have been through a few bikes to know what parts get wreked by stunt riding and crashing. You make the call - I think they look rather "new" and well kept, dunno, what do your peadls, derailurs, seats, bar-ends, wheels and axle bolts look like?
    Not my best forensic work but the bike you showed in the post in Bike and frame forum differs from the one you are posting here.



    dark frame in this post white broken bike. That indicates a time frame difference between photosets.

    you will find a lot more credulity from people here if you tell the whole story in your post. It is easy to post pictures from a bike and claim the parts are clean but when they were taken who knows and from what bike? Your posting photos that are large and from a different bike is no different than posting photos from the Motobecane website to prove a point.
    Try this: HTFU

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    I thought about how Mikey made me look like a liar to the world, when in fact, I don't lie, which one would come to appreciate about me if they chose to get to know me. Now you have people calling me names and believing that my character is dishonest.
    Look, you simply keep fighting the good fight. Don't let anyone here try to bring you down.

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