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  1. #1
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    Broken 9357 frame in bike/frame discussion

    Link: MOTOBECANE 9357 : Broken Frame

    The OP reports a catastrophic frame failure while he was JRA on a car path(whatever a car path is). Reportedly bought the bike from bikesdirect in FLA 6 or so months ago.

    He seems to have a major problem with the strength/longevity of the frame. Looks like he took a saw to the top tube. Entertaining reading, IMO. He says he used to race BMX races for cash back in the day, and his riding style "trances" the locals, so he's pretty credible in my book.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by grnxb
    Link: MOTOBECANE 9357 : Broken Frame

    The OP reports a catastrophic frame failure while he was JRA on a car path(whatever a car path is). Reportedly bought the bike from bikesdirect in FLA 6 or so months ago.

    He seems to have a major problem with the strength/longevity of the frame. Looks like he took a saw to the top tube. Entertaining reading, IMO. He says he used to race BMX races for cash back in the day, and his riding style "trances" the locals, so he's pretty credible in my book.
    You're a terrible reporter.

    Besides, Just who do you think YOU are? A bit pretentious it would seem. You quote me here as if you know exactly what happened, as if I was telling tales that I "Illegedely" purchased the bike in Florida (not FLA) 6 months or so, as if you actually had your facts straight.

    I never raced BMX for cash, in fact, I never ever said so. I bought the bike LESS than 6 months ago, not that you should care. As for the saw remark, from the photos, it's almost impossible to determine what happened even though I mentioned quite clearly what happened - I'm sure you didn't read that far though. "Catastrophic" describes something of a disaster or a horrible tragedy, like a string of tornados erasing a half a state killing more than 20 people in the middle of the night - not quite the same as someone getting thrown over the handlebars gaining a shoulder and back injury.

    Now you have made yourself a liar, Story-Teller, and Tatle-Tale, with your display of that thick and pretentious ego in a single post, you embarrass the human race. Well done. Of course, with a name like GRNXB, I suppose you aren't afraid of destroying your character online, since your next screename could be GROXB, which sounds cooler.

    I really hope, for the sake of the human race, that you're not seriously like this in person, otherwise we're doomed.

    ----

    to the rest of all these MOTOBECANE people in this forum (okay..), go ahead and read up, not only does this fool offer the most read-worthy replies and information, it really is funny. The only reason the thread isn't here, is because I didn't bother to look further than I did.
    Last edited by ZaqHydN; 02-08-2008 at 07:31 AM.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    You're a terrible reporter.

    Besides, Just who do you think YOU are? A bit pretentious it would seem. You quote me here as if you know exactly what happened, as if I was telling tales that I "Illegedely" purchased the bike in Florida (not FLA) 6 months or so, as if you actually had your facts straight.

    I never raced BMX for cash, in fact, I never ever said so. I bought the bike LESS than 6 months ago, not that you should care. As for the saw remark, from the photos, it's almost impossible to determine what happened even though I mentioned quite clearly what happened - I'm sure you didn't read that far though. "Catastrophic" describes something of a disaster or a horrible tragedy, like a string of tornados erasing a half a state killing more than 20 people in the middle of the night - not quite the same as someone getting thrown over the handlebars gaining a shoulder and back injury.

    Now you have made yourself a liar, Story-Teller, and Tatle-Tale, with your display of that thick and pretentious ego in a single post, you embarrass the human race. Well done. Of course, with a name like GRNXB, I suppose you aren't afraid of destroying your character online, since your next screename could be GROXB, which sounds cooler.

    I really hope, for the sake of the human race, that you're not seriously like this in person, otherwise we're doomed.

    ----

    to the rest of all these MOTOBECANE people in this forum (okay..), go ahead and read up, not only does this fool offer the most read-worthy replies and information, it really is funny. The only reason the thread isn't here, is because I didn't bother to look further than I did.
    You're funny. I refer directly to your posts in the bike and frame forum, virtually quoting you (but yet I'm a liar). Alright.

    Back to the facts: You stated: "I raced with a group that would compete for CHC (cash)..." My fault, I assumed that you also raced for cash. In any event, my reference to that as a way of having credibility was meant to be a joke. Stand on a step ladder and you might get it.

    Also, in my book, 6 months or so ago could also equal "less than 6 months". Honestly, giving or taking a month isn't much of a stretch.

    As far as coming up with a definition for catastrophic...sorry, I thought that a major failure (riding along a car path and having the frame break apart would qualify in my opinion) would be catastrophic.

    Also, when referring to other's uses of words, can you try to at least spell correctly. Illegedly is not allegedly.


    Lastly, I'm sorry you overlooked my suggestion that you post your problem in this forum (you might notice post # 3). I guess you must really want your problem resolved as you've put some much quality time into getting satisfaction. Did your seeing eye dog rip the mouse from your hands and click on this forum? (<------serious sarcasm right here folks)

    Thanks for playing along.

    P.S. Again, so I know exactly, how does your riding style trance the locals.? Sounds XC friendly. (sarcasm again)

  4. #4
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    When I catch Knat's, I feed them to my fish.

    >splat<
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  5. #5
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    Splat.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  6. #6
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    I’m going to say something that’s out of my department as I don’t work for Motobecane, so it’s not really my place…

    All this fighting and going back and forth out of pride or a strong belief in what we feel is right. IMO is doing more damage then good… Every time someone jumps on a individual right or wrong is giving Motobecane, a black eye and giving that individual more desirer to continue in their pursuit.

    I shouldn’t talk as I’ve jump to the defense of the brand more times then I could count… Did I ever make a difference probably not because this stuff seems never ending. It seems as BD needs to work on their customer services department. Because, by the time the frustrated customer post something here they are already in a frenzy.

    It is getting too personal and that’s not the way it should be… Someone should be able to complain about their troubles ( However, I should be done in a fashion that shows undeniable truth) and a rep from BD should come and take care of the situation… Done! With no drama. “If it is legitimate complaint“. If that process can’t be completed then the cycle will never end.

    If the cycle never ends… Then who knows. I believe in the potential of the brand… It could be something so much more. They just need to resolved some CS issues.

    Good Luck!
    Last edited by Moto Rider; 02-08-2008 at 08:39 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moto Rider
    Iím going to say something thatís out of my department as I donít work for Motobecane, so itís not really my placeÖ

    ...

    If the cycle never endsÖ Then who knows. I believe in the potential of the brandÖ It could be something so much more. They just need to resolved some CS issues.

    Good Luck!

    Well put Moto Rider, thank you.

    You seem like the type of person I could understand here. Nice to make the acquantince.

    I'm certianly not innocent to the bickering, however, I'll never let it go on and on - I've since added the knats to my ignore list once I finger them as chumps. I hope for greater intelligence and science when it comes to stuff like this.

    I've said, I support the brand, and still do - and agree the CS end needs to be managed.

    I'm just waiting to ride still, 11 days later and still no ride. I know how long it takes to build the bike, I used to work there for cryin out loud, I guess my issue isn't high on their priority list - again, CS is key to making happy customers. I'll be paying them a visit tomorow, perhaps to lend a hand in building my bike, since it would seem necessessary. haha.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  8. #8
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    So what happened? You mention you are getting another bike built, are you paying for it? I take it that since no other photos of the frame are forthcoming, and you are a photographer, you are no longer in posession of said frame? Just wondering. I also have a Fly. I have ridden it off road without a problem.
    -Scott

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rallymerkur
    So what happened? You mention you are getting another bike built, are you paying for it? I take it that since no other photos of the frame are forthcoming, and you are a photographer, you are no longer in posession of said frame? Just wondering. I also have a Fly. I have ridden it off road without a problem.

    Ello.

    The owner of the company is going to look at the frame and decide what he wants to do about it. The new frame (Fantom) just arrived there 2 days ago, I should be riding my new frame next week if the shop owner dosen't get lazy about it, although it's now been ther for three days.

    I do say, the FLY is a sweet ride, and I've heard so many good things about it. I just perfer not to take the chance on this one in fear of it happening 40 miles out.

    I should get the frame back if I'm going to have to pay for the replacement, but if he replaces it under warranty, it is likely I won't get the frame to mount on my wall. Should I get it back. there will be photos in that case.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  10. #10
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    <img src="http://yoda.densan.ca/kmr/pics/troll-web.jpg">
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  11. #11
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    LOL... one of the posters in the main thread about this went to the troll's myspace, found this pic...

    <img src="http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=334422&d=1202920625">
    And id'ed the area in question as a haven for dirt jumping as he's from the same area. So...dirt jumping an XC race bike is "just riding along a pathway" now is it?
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  12. #12
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    There is frequently a difference between heat and light; and between opinion and fact. I have read this thread with some interest and I think it is time for the bright light of the truth. So I will qualify suitability anything below that is not a known fact; everything else is know to me for certain.
     Zack [the OP] is an EX employee
     Zack is an EX or current BMX rider
     Zack does stunts on bikes
     Zack has ask me to come watch him do stunts so I would see how good he was at ‘landing’
     My employees have told me that [1] Zack has been ask to stop doing stunts in our store [2] Zack was advised that a FLY is not designed for stunts or hucking & [3] Zack has bragged about his jumping & trick ability
     An unrelated customer has reported that he saw Zack with the FLY at a dirt jumping track.
     The FLY 9357 Zack returned to us had multiple crash marks on both pedals, both sides of the bars, both sides of the saddle, and on the rear der.
     ALL BIKES are designed with a specific use in mind
     FLYs are designed as cross country & adventure racing bikes. The FLY 9357 and FLY Team are the lightest XC bikes sold in the USA at under $5000 [until the FLY TEAM Ti comes out]
     I have seen 7 FLYs with broken frames out of thousands of FLYs sold. All had been used for jumping or hucking. It is not hard to break an ultra light frame by use beyond it’s intended purpose.
     Moto FANTOM models are designed for all-mountain riding. Out of thousands of Fantoms sold I have never seen a broken one. [even though these bikes are often jumped, used for stunts, and even things more extreme]
     Kinesis makes the FLY and FANTOM frames. Kinesis is the largest high grade frame maker in the world. Kinesis would gladly give us a replacement frame if we ever have a defect.
     NO expert in the bicycle industry I know would call Zack’s frame a defect. In fact, most would laugh openly at such a claim.
     Even though Zack’s frame was not defect by any evaluation method in our industry; I offered him a new Fantom hardtail frame for free. He declined this and demanded a Full Suspension frame for free.
     I agreed to waive {as we always do} the labor which is not covered by warranty and sell Zack a new Full Suspension frame with Rock Shox rear shock at $200. This is about the value of the rear shock alone. Zack got a Fantom DS completely rebuilt from his Fly for $200.
     In conclusion; I think we did more than any other bicycle company would for the customer under similar circumstances. I would act exactly the same weather Zack was an ex-employee or not; weather he was a forum member or not.

    There are other facts concerning Zack’s behavior that make this case even stranger; however posting those details would not really help most readers understand what happened here. And judging from the responses to the OP – I think most understood the situation even before my post.
    Last edited by bikesdirect; 02-13-2008 at 12:55 PM.

  13. #13
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    wow...

  14. #14
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    Smile just a FYI

    I have a 2005 ( i think) fly pro. I weight 170 and have taken it down some 1/2 and occasional 3 foot drops/jumps and never had an issue. the bike is not meant for jumping, but can take some abuse.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    LOL... one of the posters in the main thread about this went to the troll's myspace, found this pic...

    And id'ed the area in question as a haven for dirt jumping as he's from the same area. So...dirt jumping an XC race bike is "just riding along a pathway" now is it?
    Ah, yet another knat.

    The photo, if you examine it, does not show anything looking remotely like a tree, jerky chicken, overpass, or even a jump. It does, however show a bike in two peices and the skidmark left in soft dirt made when I grabbed the bars to hold on for life (har), and the vehicle path.

    Whatever you say, I'm sure you were there and saw the whole thing, and maybe so did this annonymous other person.

    Congratulations for being the second person (ever) to make my ignore list. Knat.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  16. #16
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    Final disposition

    1.  Zack [the OP] is an EX employee
    2.  Zack is an EX or current BMX rider
    3.  Zack does stunts on bikes
    4.  Zack has ask me to come watch him do stunts so I would see how good he was at ‘landing’
    5.  My employees have told me that [1] Zack has been ask to stop doing stunts in our store [2] Zack was advised that a FLY is not designed for stunts or hucking & [3] Zack has bragged about his jumping & trick ability
    6.  An unrelated customer has reported that he saw Zack with the FLY at a dirt jumping track.
    7.  The FLY 9357 Zack returned to us had multiple crash marks on both pedals, both sides of the bars, both sides of the saddle, and on the rear der.
    8.  ALL BIKES are designed with a specific use in mind
    9.  FLYs are designed as cross country & adventure racing bikes. The FLY 9357 and FLY Team are the lightest XC bikes sold in the USA at under $5000 [until the FLY TEAM Ti comes out]
    10.  I have seen 7 FLYs with broken frames out of thousands of FLYs sold. All had been used for jumping or hucking. It is not hard to break an ultra light frame by use beyond it’s intended purpose.
    11.  Moto FANTOM models are designed for all-mountain riding. Out of thousands of Fantoms sold I have never seen a broken one. [even though these bikes are often jumped, used for stunts, and even things more extreme]
    12.  Kinesis makes the FLY and FANTOM frames. Kinesis is the largest high grade frame maker in the world. Kinesis would gladly give us a replacement frame if we ever have a defect.
    13.  NO expert in the bicycle industry I know would call Zack’s frame a defect. In fact, most would laugh openly at such a claim.
    14.  Even though Zack’s frame was not defect by any evaluation method in our industry; I offered him a new Fantom hardtail frame for free. He declined this and demanded a Full Suspension frame for free.
    15.  I agreed to waive {as we always do} the labor which is not covered by warranty and sell Zack a new Full Suspension frame with Rock Shox rear shock at $200. This is about the value of the rear shock alone. Zack got a Fantom DS completely rebuilt from his Fly for $200.
    16.  In conclusion; I think we did more than any other bicycle company would for the customer under similar circumstances. I would act exactly the same weather Zack was an ex-employee or not; weather he was a forum member or not.
    Here's my reply to this long winded one:

    1. True

    2. EX

    3. False, a wheelie or bunny hop is not a stunt, they're basic riding manuvers.

    4. False, partially. a. I offered to alleiviate your concern of "Wheelie Dammage" by showing you HOW I ride one. b. The FLY is designed for XC RACING, is it not reasonable to assume it can handle racing conditions? c. Incomplete. My past abilities, whenever I refer to how I used to jump, it is almost always followed up with something much like, "that was when I used to race" or "that was a while ago". I haven't jumped anything larger than a curb in the last 3 years.

    5. False. Your "Unrelated Customer" likely has never ridden with me unless he's a she, in which case, the picnic rides were nice, OR, they knew me when I had my Gary Fisher (3 years ago) and I used to ride that pretty hard, very ridgid frame, OR, this person is just outright lying, again, it's been 3 years and I only 'jump' curbs eh. I like to meet this person.

    6. False. Crash Marks on the pedals, derailur, and seat?! You mean the potential marks that come from lying the bike down on the sidewalk from time to time? No kickstand bravo. You show me someone that rides their bike for real with no scuffs on those parts and we'll compare milage ridden.

    7. True - duh.

    8. PLUG. again, does the photo indicate anything "Adventuristic" and was I racing? No, so I should have been okay.

    9. ? Hucking? What is that anyway? Does that mean riding on a trail? If so, then I'm totally at fault. 7 broken frames eh, that's 7 potential deaths if you think about it.

    10. The Fantom I now have is quite possibily the most responsive and controllable frame I've yet ridden since my Auburn CR back in 89'. It has the reflexes of a knat, I love it. I can actually feel my spokes, almost ALL the power from the pedal goes to the sproket and hits the ground, and the front end flex is minimal, almost not worth measuring. I think my next upgrade will be a set of *****in wheels that have a more solid feel.

    11. Perhaps. However, my college friends would love to proove it - although I'm sure it would be ridiculous to ask for the frame so I could send it to them. They're professors that teach at a university, one is a mechanical engineer & physisist and the other is a scientist & chemist. They thought the idea of using it as a class experiement was a really great. I'm an audio engineer, in which case, I can certify that the bike is extremely quiet.

    12. a. "by any evaluation in our industry" is a plausable deniable - in otherwords, were is examined by the engineers at NASA or Lockheed Martin, they might find something the bicycle guys don't care to measure to. b. True. I've had some accumulating back pain since the incident that has convinced me to let go of hard-tail frames, possibly for good. c. False. I didn't demand, in fact, I mentioned to you on the phone, that I was telling you what I "wanted" and also wanted to come to a resonable solution, which we did do as mentioned in No. 13.

    13. True. $200 was a very resonable "Upgrade" fee, and most certianly impacted my final disclosure about your customer service.

    14. True, most likely. I never blamed anyone from the company about the break, just a certian person within your company that aparently thinks he knows me better than he actually does, that's okay - I don't care, I did a bunch of great things to improve the workshop's workflow while I was there, none of which I was asked to do, heck, I had to INSIST on making a parts drawer (paid for and built by me) because someone can't put anything away, and to this day it rocks. I was also the one responsible for re-organizing the way the bikes are stored and where the repairs are now, versus the carnival method that was used before. I also gave the bike shop my favorite portable speakers, not even asking for them back when I left because I thought of it as a necessessary improvement. Oh, I also initiated and christened the second-workbench, which moved from where the rack was to the side since I left, still, if you want something done right, do it your self, right? What else, ah, almost everytime I'm there, customers cling to me for info on bikes, and often the C-man (you know) has asked me if I wouldn't mind "covering" for him while he loaded up a bike for a previous customer, all of which I did because I do, in fact, like the product, and I don't, in fact, blame the company for the broken frame - heck, we all know NASA has had a few incalculable errors in it's past that they could not have imagined happening. God bless them all.

    I did more for that bike shop in the few months I worked there, and even a few months after, than any employee (and possibly ex employee) before me has done for it, because I believe in a good product, and an honest warranty, and solid customer service.

    The name is Zaq, it's my nickname I've had for over 12 years, just like the name on this thread (cept for the HydN, my pre-USA family name) - Given the opportunity, you would come to know that: I'm a nice guy; I believe in doing the right thing; giving credit where and to whom it belongs; I protect my rights and the rights of others when needed; I won't lie for anyone; I'm objective and constructive; and I also hold no grudges against you or the other guy (some of the children in this forum, however, define a perfect example of why God gave us the "ignore list").

    Furthermore, I enjoy riding with others that aren't addicted to nicotine or alcohol, and in a few months should be riding trails again (the shoulder), and looking forward to actually getting time to ride, my work schedule has kept me on the street for the most.

    Is there anyone from the Swuanee Bicycle Ascociation here or what? I used to be a member of that group (in my Gary Fisher days), a few of those guys and gals would set it straight to those of you that can only imagine. Whatever - i really don't need to justify here, It only counts on dirt, not on paper.

    Anyone that would like to actually get to know me well enough to tell stories from experience, rather than from spectulation, I openly invite conversation. To those that only wish to blast hatered, greed, and delusion, I kindly ask to drop my name from your mailing list. no one likes Junk Mail.

    As for Mike (not Mickey) - Aside from BOTH of our behaviours, I still think we averted any real arguments very well - Like I said to you on the phone, I wasn't attacking you with a lawyer, I was simply doing the very same thing you likely would have done in the case of an injury accident, making sure your back end is covered in case you find out you won't be able to pick up a gallon of milk with your primary arm for the rest of your life because of a bike frame splitting in two under normal riding conditions, and I would recommend the same procedure to anyone. However, if there ever is the unlikely chance of this happening again, my first action won't be to take the bike to the dealer, rather, to call 911, then call my lawyer while I'm still on the ground covered in dirt at the scene. My civility is what kept me from doing so in this case, I assumed that it was obvious, considering what happened and how. So, Mike, with this in mind, i simply ask you this, Which method would you have preferred? (retorical)

    My final disposition on this "case" or thread is:

    1. a resonable solution has been rendered in a reasonable time.

    2. The customer service at the retail end remains "in training" while the customer service of the manufacture was very well handled.

    3. My opinion of Mike is as reasonable business owner with good ethics, however should consider getting to know his "OP" before making claims openly about him as fact (it's called Libel in the legal world).

    4. MOTOBECANE is a great brand to ride, I've always said so, and even with a face full of dirt, still do say so.

    5. The FLY 9357 I would only recommend to lightweight riders (under 150#) and the bike should come with a manual (and legal indemnification of accidental death & dismembermant) that actually discusses it's purpose, design, and potential hazards (my Fly did not come with a manual, C-man tosses them).

    6. It's spelled with a "Z" an "a" and a "q", as in "Zaq"; commonly pronounced as Zack, and is meant to be pronounced as "Jaque" as in Qusto, which my inner circle of friends and family know well.

    7. The Fantom DS frame, even with the rear shock, has the feel of an extension of the mind and body - a nice feeling to have again (it's been over a decade since my Trek 930), I'm sure I will need a set of wheels built to match it's "appropiate use".

    8. I'm thankfully done with this thread (unless I get the frame back to send to my college mates), my initial intention was to inform, because I believe in history, science, and education, then I had to defend myself (i still don't know why - none of these people seem to get it, besides a small handfull), and now it seems to be completely off topic everytime I login to it (It's about the bike people, not me). So to all the lovers of hatered and the knats out there - enjoy, but do so without expecting a response about it from me.

    Mike, Thank you for handling the situation, I only hope that in the future, you get to know the kind of person I am to others.

    To those that get it - Thank you for your reasonable input and questions, you have been promoted with your objectivity and your quest for truth and knowledge.

    Everyone else - I suppose I can only pray for clarity and peace.

    - - - - - ->8 INSERT BIG GROUP HUG HERE 8<- - - - - - -
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

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    zaq...so you say you're an audio engineer....answer this...would you use a neumann u47 to close mic a kick drum with? probably not...for fear of damage to the diaphragm, right? or even overall just bad sound quality... you'd prob use a 421, d112, or a beta 52....maybe an audix d4...my point is there is a correct tool for the job...there is no way that you riding that bike along, doing nothing more than riding, could have caused not one, but TWO tube failures...you obviously were jumping, or hucking, or doing something you shouldn't have been doing ON THAT BIKE...and no matter what you say, you're not going to convince anyone else around here that you were just riding along and the bike failed...and if you were jumping etc, i'd say that's a testament to the build quality of the frame, being that it didn't fail at a welded joint...b/c (as i used to be a weldor) the most likely point of failure for anything that has been welded, is the point at WHICH it is welded (actually just to either side of it, in the head affect zone...) being that the bike failed right in the middle of the tube, it's clear that a huge amount of stress was placed on that frame...also, you said something about your wheels still being straight...well ofcourse they're still straight, b/c when you overshot the landing ramp, you prob landed perfectly straight, with no lateral stresses on the wheel, bottomed out the fork, and broke the frame...wheels are very strong when pulling in direct tension of the spoke...laterally they aren't as strong...especially a racing wheel like those vuelta's....anyway, mike didnt' have to be so nice, and c-man (i know the guy personally) DOES know what he's talking about, and i guarantee he saw right through your story just as everyone else does....you keep saying that you're so loyal to the motobecane brand, well why did you go and start up such a sh1t storm on this forum, before mike had even remedied the situation...he didn't HAVE to be so nice...and honestly, i hope he never does business with you again after all the crap you've spouted off here...i know i wouldn't.

    and would you PLEASE tell me EXACTLY where this vehicle path is? i used to live in jacksonville, up till about a month ago, and that pic looks exactly like beach and peach, where everyone goes to dirt jump...people also so take their 4wd trucks back there too, which is where that tire track going up the hill i can guarantee is coming from....how bout you get on google maps, and send me some coordinates....

  18. #18
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    Unless you would like to let my college friends examine the frame, button ur lips.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikesdirect
    There is frequently a difference between heat and light; and between opinion and fact. I have read this thread with some interest and I think it is time for the bright light of the truth. So I will qualify suitability anything below that is not a known fact; everything else is know to me for certain.

     The FLY 9357 Zack returned to us had multiple crash marks on both pedals, both sides of the bars, both sides of the saddle, and on the rear der.
    Based on the fact that you are willing to tell stories about something that can later be proved with photos (like the frame) of the parts in question

    I thought about how Mikey made me look like a liar to the world, when in fact, I don't lie, which one would come to appreciate about me if they chose to get to know me. Now you have people calling me names and believing that my character is dishonest.

    Perhaps you, and the rest think I'm just some kid trying to pull one over on the big guy? As a business owner, it's a write-off for you, what's your problem? and for those of you that are keen enough to believe a guy that has everything to gain from stomping my reputation and hiding the real proof so he looks like he's being the saviour and I'm the wolf - duh you, I'd wait a few more ice-cream seasons before comming back on that.

    Mike, your over-dramatization of the bikes condition makes simply makes YOU the one telling tales , because I have all those "Crash-Marked" parts in my posession, and I am, in fact a photographer - and I do, in fact have the stones to photograph every inch of the bike simply to proove your tales are sour, and your motives questionable. You brought out the claims, now I'm bringing you the check.

    With that said, here are professional quality images of the so-called "Crash-Marked" parts he mentioned, along with a few other common parts that, in my 25 years of riding experience have damaged before by abusing and crashing. It's possible I've crashed more times in just my BMX days before I was even 18, than you have changed tires on a bicycle.

    Not my best "Forensic" work, but I'll let all you experienced riders out there that have been through a few bikes to know what parts get wreked by stunt riding and crashing. You make the call - I think they look rather "new" and well kept, dunno, what do your peadls, derailurs, seats, bar-ends, wheels and axle bolts look like?



    I want you all to know, I REALLY tried to photograph the worst of the so called dammage. - but it was difficult to find any at all indicating even a single crash or any abuse.

    To all you riders out there that think I'm full of it, ask him for detailed photos of the frame damage (the paintjob was still immaculate, like new), and to let me submit the frame for a scientific analysis from real engineers and scientists, along with a classroom full of well educated students trying to earn an 'A'.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

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    Truth hurts, punk.

    You can close this thread now. I'm done flexing my truth.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

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    that has to be one of the most annoying posts to read....EVER.....try to cut down on the use of bold and oversized font from now on....thanks. and i didn't quite understand the "truth hurts punk" part....could you elaborate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobrder5
    zaq...so you say you're an audio engineer....answer this...would you use a neumann u47 to close mic a kick drum with? probably not...for fear of damage to the diaphragm, right? or even overall just bad sound quality... you'd prob use a 421, d112, or a beta 52....maybe an audix d4...my point is there is a correct tool for the job...there is no way that you riding that bike along, doing nothing more than riding, could have caused not one, but TWO tube failures...you obviously were jumping, or hucking, or doing something you shouldn't have been doing ON THAT BIKE...and no matter what you say, you're not going to convince anyone else around here that you were just riding along and the bike failed...and if you were jumping etc, i'd say that's a testament to the build quality of the frame, being that it didn't fail at a welded joint...b/c (as i used to be a weldor) the most likely point of failure for anything that has been welded, is the point at WHICH it is welded (actually just to either side of it, in the head affect zone...) being that the bike failed right in the middle of the tube, it's clear that a huge amount of stress was placed on that frame...also, you said something about your wheels still being straight...well ofcourse they're still straight, b/c when you overshot the landing ramp, you prob landed perfectly straight, with no lateral stresses on the wheel, bottomed out the fork, and broke the frame...wheels are very strong when pulling in direct tension of the spoke...laterally they aren't as strong...especially a racing wheel like those vuelta's....anyway, mike didnt' have to be so nice, and c-man (i know the guy personally) DOES know what he's talking about, and i guarantee he saw right through your story just as everyone else does....you keep saying that you're so loyal to the motobecane brand, well why did you go and start up such a sh1t storm on this forum, before mike had even remedied the situation...he didn't HAVE to be so nice...and honestly, i hope he never does business with you again after all the crap you've spouted off here...i know i wouldn't.

    and would you PLEASE tell me EXACTLY where this vehicle path is? i used to live in jacksonville, up till about a month ago, and that pic looks exactly like beach and peach, where everyone goes to dirt jump...people also so take their 4wd trucks back there too, which is where that tire track going up the hill i can guarantee is coming from....how bout you get on google maps, and send me some coordinates....
    oo, you know what a microphone is, even a diaphram. I'm impressed dude. really. So you like the comfy studio gigs eh, based on your choices. I prefer the million watt concert gigs myself (not anymore - too many single-serving 'friends' and there's no real purpose in life touring). I've been a concert engineer for over 12 years, working with bands like the Goo Goo Dolls, Third Eye Blind, and about a hundered other bands worth mentioning more than a microphone. I've used a Studer Vista 7 in a recording session for an orchestra involving over 90 channels of sudio mixed down to a 24 channel surround sound experiment. You would blow your wad if you heard it - DBX likely won't release the recording for another 5 years. (FLEX FLEX) oo, look at the mounds.

    The Beach & Peach? you're way off eh. This isn't even a bike trail dude, it rides around a new retention pond and is harmless unless you try to kill yourself on a FLY

    Since you're obviously on Mikey's side here, you can stuff your bags full of the same garbage he fills his with. I though good of him up until he lied to the public in a feble attempt to make me look like i'm full os BS. Fact is, he has everything to loose from telling the truth, so being the nice guy was the right thing to do - Libel, on the otherhand I did not expect from him.

    When he called me after I wrote to, who I thought was, the manufacture, and was actually him, his attitude was very coarse, and aggressive. I have a strict policy about arguing on the phone, I don't. So, i interrupted him, and corrected his previous preceptions about what his employEE spake of, and laid it out flat - I'm asking for a a replacement, not demanding - and the lawyer is to cover a possible shoulder tear, not to attack him in any way. After that, the call went back to nice, like I said, I am nice - but you guys don't even seem to care, should I believe what anyone says about you, regardless of wether or not they know you, or should I read into who you are.

    I think I've read well, I've worked with 12bangers like you for years, they're annoying and don't even know what the CGL is for. Products are easy - putting together thousands of concerts, on time, the first time, every time, not so easy.

    Knat.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobrder5
    that has to be one of the most annoying posts to read....EVER.....try to cut down on the use of bold and oversized font from now on....thanks. and i didn't quite understand the "truth hurts punk" part....could you elaborate?
    sure, you're a knat.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

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    i'll agree with you about there not being a future in touring....i've done live audio since i was about 16...so that's about 10 years now...ran foh for ratdog at a regional show down at the pompano beach ampitheatre, did monitors for audio adrenaline on a midas h3000, but most of my gigs were smaller regional stuff, and fulltiming with the orlando philharmonic orchestra, doing all their outdoor gigs...done a few with ground stacked vertec's, multiple meyer delay lines, running 50+ mics on a 32ch midas verona and a&h submixers...anyone can do rock and roll...making a symphony sound REAL and ACCURATE is harder....

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    I don't know why I care but...

    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    ...Not my best "Forensic" work, but I'll let all you experienced riders out there that have been through a few bikes to know what parts get wreked by stunt riding and crashing. You make the call - I think they look rather "new" and well kept, dunno, what do your peadls, derailurs, seats, bar-ends, wheels and axle bolts look like?
    Not my best forensic work but the bike you showed in the post in Bike and frame forum differs from the one you are posting here.



    dark frame in this post white broken bike. That indicates a time frame difference between photosets.

    you will find a lot more credulity from people here if you tell the whole story in your post. It is easy to post pictures from a bike and claim the parts are clean but when they were taken who knows and from what bike? Your posting photos that are large and from a different bike is no different than posting photos from the Motobecane website to prove a point.
    Try this: HTFU

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    I thought about how Mikey made me look like a liar to the world, when in fact, I don't lie, which one would come to appreciate about me if they chose to get to know me. Now you have people calling me names and believing that my character is dishonest.
    Look, you simply keep fighting the good fight. Don't let anyone here try to bring you down.

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    Can anyone (OP or bikesdirect) please post a photo of the frame damage? It shouldn't be too hard to do given we've seen both artistic renderings and super-up close shots of related parts.

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    Did anyone else home in on one of the wheels having a weight taped to it to balance it and eliminate wheel-hop?

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobrder5
    i'll agree with you about there not being a future in touring....i've done live audio since i was about 16...so that's about 10 years now...ran foh for ratdog at a regional show down at the pompano beach ampitheatre, did monitors for audio adrenaline on a midas h3000, but most of my gigs were smaller regional stuff, and fulltiming with the orlando philharmonic orchestra, doing all their outdoor gigs...done a few with ground stacked vertec's, multiple meyer delay lines, running 50+ mics on a 32ch midas verona and a&h submixers...anyone can do rock and roll...making a symphony sound REAL and ACCURATE is harder....
    Now that sounds more like an audio guy than, I partially forgive you.

    Your choice to follow the dark side however, oops.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    Not my best forensic work but the bike you showed in the post in Bike and frame forum differs from the one you are posting here.

    dark frame in this post white broken bike. That indicates a time frame difference between photosets.
    Need I be the one to say it? Duh.

    Mike's employEE replaced the FLY frame (white), with the Fantom (black), putting all those crash-marked parts from the FLY onto the new frame, as photographed. All the parts are the same, only the frame was changed to protect the guilty, of course, while we're all habitual liars here, why not just assume that all this is made-up just to mess with your head.

    you will find a lot more credulity from people here if you tell the whole story in your post. It is easy to post pictures from a bike and claim the parts are clean but when they were taken who knows and from what bike? Your posting photos that are large and from a different bike is no different than posting photos from the Motobecane website to prove a point.
    Now you, are insuinuating that I'm dishonest as well, and based on your ability to study the thread, you're not only a gnat, you're apparently not the brightest gnat of the flock. I therefore feed you to the fish.

    Enjoy.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

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    Wheel Balancing - Not a joke, try it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Did anyone else home in on one of the wheels having a weight taped to it to balance it and eliminate wheel-hop?
    keeps the wheel spinning longer. It's an old trick I turned into BMX Plus! back in the late 80's. Makes a big difference if you happen to race, faster the wheel spins the greater the effect. If you happen to do big-airs, you might like how it ceases any mid-air wobble, making the bike feel almost weightless - give it a shot before you poop on the concept.

    Typically, the valve stem, and the extra rubber near that part of the tube is a lot heavier compared to the rest of the wheel. Since it's a circle, and spins at the center, it matters. Myself and clan were the first bunch to apply this to our BMX racing, and it did make a difference in both control and efficiancy. When every second counts, so does every ounce of weight you have to move.

    We also started the whole "Bash-Guard" thing using a second chainwheel on the other side of the crankset fitted with a chain to make wall-plants and other chainwheel bending operations way cooler - 5 months after they published our photos, BULLY bashguard's and framesets hit the market, most of us bought one - I did not. I rode a TNT XL that was stiffer than railroad spike.

    IF you balance your wheelset - You'll notice longer coasting and a slightly smoother ride at speeds over 15 MPH.

    HOW:
    1. Let the wheel spin it's way to the heavy spot
    2. Use a plumb bob to find the opposing side of the rim and mark the sweet spot.
    3. Attach the appropiate weight to the rim if you have Disc Brakes, and to the spokes if you have Rim-Brakes at or near the sweet spot. (usually about the weight of a dime or a spare aluminum Presta-Adapter)

    Attachment should be done with the foresight that you're spinning a weight and it could fly off if your adhesive methods are lame. (I have had great success using layers of SHURETAPE because I know better, and if the tape by some small miracle looses it's grip, it won't break anything)

    You might need to try different weights and alternative placement a couple times before you achieve true freespin.

    Road-Bikers benefit the most from doing this, the difference is much more noticable on the faster machines.

    Only the intelligent should attempt this operation, as it requires attention to weight placement and securing the weight to the wheel could be tricky if you have rim-style brakes. In which case, you can attach the weight to the spokes intelligently.

    By attempting this modification, you indemnify me of any potential injuries and damages that may result from your modification. I would recommend having a professional do it for you if you're a gnat.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    Here's my reply to this long winded one:
    You really do want to get sued don't you?

    3. False, a wheelie or bunny hop is not a stunt, they're basic riding manuvers.
    Bzzzzzt Wrong, but thanks for playing...By the definitions in most EVERY warranty of every bicycle company around, both bunny hops and wheelies count as stunt riding and are grounds for exclusion of warranty coverage.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    keeps the wheel spinning longer. It's an old trick I turned into BMX Plus! back in the late 80's. Makes a big difference if you happen to race, faster the wheel spins the greater the effect. If you happen to do big-airs, you might like how it ceases any mid-air wobble, making the bike feel almost weightless - give it a shot before you poop on the concept.
    You really ARE an idiot, or the staff at BMX Plus were to have even printed such a thing back then. Increasing the rotating mass increases the momentum of the wheel and thus it spins longer. A thicker tube or heavier tire does the same thing. Hell, riding thru some dog poop first achieves that also. There is no "trick" to increasing the mass of the wheel to make it spin longer. Its grade-school physics.

    We also started the whole "Bash-Guard" thing using a second chainwheel on the other side of the crankset fitted with a chain to make wall-plants and other chainwheel bending operations way cooler - 5 months after they published our photos, BULLY bashguard's and framesets hit the market, most of us bought one - I did not. I rode a TNT XL that was stiffer than railroad spike.
    Conveniently ignoring the fact that bash guards and rockrings go back a couple decades before BMX bikes existed.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

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    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    Need I be the one to say it? Duh.
    Actually you do need to be the one to say it. Nowhere in your diatribe did you mention that these were the original parts that were swapped onto a new frame. In fact you mentioned that you were still awaiting your new replacement bike. So how does one know that this is said a newly built up bike and not a previous bike that you owned and swapped the parts from to the now broken bike. I am just saying while you certainly have the right to be riled up you should probably realize that people that come to public forums to vent about a bike break are always guilty until proven innocent. It is not fair but it is true.

    It is also not uncommon for the manufacturer to come aboard and put out what many users will consider the "real facts" ergo it makes the original poster look even more guilty.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    Now you, are insuinuating that I'm dishonest as well, and based on your ability to study the thread, you're not only a gnat, you're apparently not the brightest gnat of the flock. I therefore feed you to the fish.

    Enjoy.
    There is no insinuation at all. I was just pointing out the facts. Like I said it pays in credibility to put all the facts out in the first. Mentioning that that was the new frame with the old parts would have gone a long way to assuage my doubts about it but you left that unsaid so I then had my doubts as to the veracity of your claim. If you want to be seen as an innocent I put it to you that you are the one that needs to put all the information in your rebuttal threads such that persons aren't forced to read every insult laden post that you have written in order to glean the truth that you feel is so obvious. It isn't.
    Try this: HTFU

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    Hope Case closed.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    Nowhere in your diatribe did you mention that these were the original parts that were swapped onto a new frame. In fact you mentioned that you were still awaiting your new replacement bike. So how does one know that There is no insinuation at all. I was just pointing out the facts. Like I said it pays in credibility to put all the facts out in the first. Mentioning that that was the new frame with the old parts would have gone a long way to assuage my doubts about it but you left that unsaid so I then had my doubts as to the veracity of your claim. If you want to be seen as an innocent I put it to you that you are the one that needs to put all the information in your rebuttal threads such that persons aren't forced to read every insult laden post that you have written in order to glean the truth that you feel is so obvious. It isn't.
    For you:
    Mr Bikes Direct himself did all that for me eh.

    For everyone else:
    Assumptions are blind guesses. An educated guess or determination is based on fact.

    Mike has no idea how I ride, all of his 'facts' were based on hearsay from people that work for him or think they're cool because they know him.

    Facts:
    . Photographically proven, there are no signs of abuse, to any of the parts remotely cohesive to crashing, or any types of abnormal riding, regardless of the strict claims stating so, therefore, through reasonable doubt, it is most likely that i did not abuse the bike in any way, and, that the one making the claims is trying to justify the frame being broken with false, and public statements.

    . I've only defended attacks against my statements of fact and determinations, my character and principals, and for the betterment of the topic.

    . I have not done jumps in almost 3 years, therefore the fact is, anyone that states they saw me dirt jumping on this frame is lying. All of which is hearsay anyway.

    . While I was employed at bikes direct, Craig has seen me ride a wheelie in his store to test the bikes front end balance, and has seen me do small bunnyhops to test for abnormal vibrations that would indicate loose or mis-mounted parts.

    . This is apparently the eigth frame that Mike has admitted to havin seen broken, which equals eight potential death's if you imagine different situations - when I did a search on Google, I found nothing and felt it to be important public knowledge in the case of similar situations, much like researching email scam letters.

    . My photographic proof settles that his claims were lies, therefore it is reasonable to determine that he is telling tales, and all his other claims of facts are mere attempts to delude my credibility, also creating the possibility that those 7 other frames were covered with tales to their failures.

    . My obvious and public proclimation that I support the brand, and my willingness to stick with the brand difusses any idea that I might be dishonest in my claim that I believe this was a unique incident.

    . Most people replying to this thread have assumed I'm full of it, now there are photos of the parts proving my statements.

    . If you followed the thread, you would have discovered the replacement information preventing you from being so ... assuming.

    . Your a moderator, you should have the experience to identify people that can straight-talk rather than the swindlers, I ran a BBS for 6 years, I know what it's like.

    . The only reason Mike felt it necessessary to post his "FAQ SHEET" about me and the incident is because it directly affects his wallet, therefore it be reasonable to determine that an honest business owner would not bother making claims against a customer that is actively supporting his brand, yet he bashed my character on paper anyway.

    . Last fact here, it is apparent that only two of you on this system even care about the idea that I MIGHT be telling the truth, reasonably determining that posting this information here is a complete waste of time, and that, since all dishonest people believe everyone is dishonest, it would be reasonable to say that the majority of people calling me names because of my honesty, are not worth listening to in the first place.

    Where does it all end up?

    Who really cares.

    I thought I was doing a good deed by potentially helping out a future issue, that perhaps you might have happen to you one day, and providing detailed information about the progress.

    I've obviously overestimated the purpose of this BBS and it's members. It's saddening to see so many lives so desperate to cause misery among others in a wasted effort to make themselves feel bigger or better than anyone else. It's almost physical violence, and no different from it mentally.

    Bottom line here is simple, the big man came out with tall stories to squash the little guy, little did he know that the little guy has no problem squashing the big guy when it needs to be done.

    Now since you've sided with him, based on your presumprious posts previously made, It's likely one would feel embarrassed, as one reasonably should, however, it is unreasonable to continue to take it out on me since I've apparently made my point, and no further bashing is going to make it any better.

    The more adult and reasonable conclusion and solution would be to think, "Well, he posted strong evidence contrary to Mike's claims of facts - look at those bike parts, obviously this guy hasn't been thrashing about on this bike. Parhaps I should consider the fact that I've made an unreasonable judgement."

    Here are some of the big questions that should help satisfy any question on who's telling tales here:

    I posted my evidence, did Mike post evidence?
    Will your determination be based on the evidence laid before you?
    Are there ANY signs of abuse showing in the evidence, that would, without any reasonable doubt, be cohesive to causing a bike frame to fall apart?
    Is there enough evidence to show reasonable doubt to Mikes claims of fact?
    Do the remaining parts appear to be well kept?
    Is there a single photo of me in existance that shows me stunt riding to any degree, that was taken in the last 15 years?
    Will this unrelated customer be willing to testify before me in person their story?
    Is there a history of customer service related claims similar to this one?
    Did you base your opinion of this case on your personal knowledge and experience of my riding style?

    Case closed I believe.

    Anyone that wishes to DISCUSS the matter properly, I welcome your questions, input, and diagnosis - but on a new thread please.

    Moderator, enjoy closing this thread like you adolesantly locked down the other thread - Pretty Please.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

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    Wow, my ADHD has caused me to not read most of your post, but I ask you to continue fighting the good fight, because if no one else will, you will be remembered as a hero.

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    geesh i'm kinda getting tired of this whole debacle, so here goes...zaq, sorry your fly broke...i'm glad that mike and craig hooked you up with your new ds...hopefully you like it, i haven't had a single problem with mine... (the only advice i can give you is make sure you're giving yourself a sold 1/4" to 3/8" of sag on the 4 or 5" setting...it pedals MUCH better once it settles into its travel)

    you make yourself out to be this huge supporter of motobecane, and that you're not out to get them or anything, but at the same time you got on here and started saying that BD wasn't going to do anything, and that they basically blew you off, etc....personally, i think this whole situation would have gone a little more smoothly, and bridges prob wouldn't have been burned, (especially with the manufacturer of your bike), if you had just waited for a final decision on the part of mike and craig, as to whether or not they were going to replace at their cost, or give you a crash replacement....as for your shoulder, i think that being that you were riding your bike, in dirt, constitutes riding off road, and i think the manual has a disclaimer about safety off road etc...maybe craig should stop throwing the manuals away when he builds the bikes...

    i just have a bad taste in my mouth of this whole situation, because you basically came out swinging, and didnt really give them a chance to remedy the situation...now i dont recall if you said they gave you the option of a crash replacement initially or not, but if they didn't, and it took all of this crap on here to get you one, then shame on them.

    if my comp ds broke, out of the blue, while just riding along, i'd call mike, tell him what happened, and if they offered me a crash replacement for 200 i'd prob take it, b/c that really is a deal when a new frame from bikeisland is 320 plus shipping...if i noticed a crack in a weld, i'd let mike know, submit the frame for review, and if he didnt' give a replacement, i'd prob be upset, but if he offered me a deal on a new frame, i'd prob take it...i mean, lets be honest, i paid 340 for my frame....i like the way it rides....if i buy 2 other frames, for 200 each, i'm still less than the price of a heckler or turner or whatever...and honestly you wont get a $200 crash replacement from either of them...that's one of the big reason i own a moto...cause they're inexpensive...

    man i'm really sorry you and i never got to cross paths in jacksonville..i think we would have got along well, being that we share so many interests (riding, audio, and photography)...good luck

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by snobrder5
    geesh i'm kinda getting tired of this whole debacle, so here goes...zaq, sorry your fly broke...i'm glad that mike and craig hooked you up with your new ds...hopefully you like it, i haven't had a single problem with mine... (the only advice i can give you is make sure you're giving yourself a sold 1/4" to 3/8" of sag on the 4 or 5" setting...it pedals MUCH better once it settles into its travel)

    man i'm really sorry you and i never got to cross paths in jacksonville..i think we would have got along well, being that we share so many interests (riding, audio, and photography)...good luck
    at last, someone that makes sence and has something real to contribute. Thanks for putting the sword away. I did come out swinging, because when I did, was shortly after I got the phone call to pound my lifetime warranty up my woowoo. Not cool - I'm over it, other than his stories, I'm sure mike is a good guy, and under different circumstances, would likely have averted the whole matter in person.

    thanks for tip on the travel, and I just got back from a quickie 5 mile test ride along the powerline trail on the new DS, and it is very nice. It does seem to pedal hunky, but it's response and control are exactly what I like.

    I'm done with Jacksonville, have been since early June. My new disaster area will be in Raleigh NC and the Smokey Mountains. I agree, we likely would have met at Hanna, and formed a team or something, if I rode as much as I wanted to, work took my free time away. I have a feeling I'm gonna get it back with Photography as it seems to have already done so far. I've been here 7 years, built a strong name in modeling photography (www.supermodelme.com/zaqhydn) and am ready to leave this, for lack of a better description, "pit-stop". Now I do family and corporate photography and imaging - a lot of the nicer apartment finder photos are from my lens, about 20% or so, along with a bundle of virtual tours.

    I'll be doing a lot of expeditions and classes in photography in NC, and working with select production companies that offer a greater purpose in life. I'm really looking foward to the experience, and I believe the Lord smited the FLY on purpose to save me from a potential situation 40 miles out in the woods at 1200 ft. knowing that I would have killed myself out there on the XC armed with only a camera, a tripod and an HT.

    I'll be stirring up a good group of riders there to start a riding group that should be really awesome. I know they already have a bunch of adventure groups, which rocks, but none of them are church groups. or F:.M:. groups.

    I officially remove the strike from your record.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  39. #39
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    Hey bikesdirect-

    I want a Fly Ti frame. I'm willing to take a circular saw./hacksaw/sledgehammer to my Fly frame if necessary. Can you cut me the same deal as you did Zaq? I'm willing to pay up to $300 for the Ti frame. I'll post an entire thread pissing and moaning about how my frame didn't stand up to a direct hit from an overpass at 70mph if I have to.

    Do we have a deal?

    P.S. My frame is only 3 months old and I almost got hurt while riding on a sidewalk. The frame, it just blew up or something. Help. I have the phone book out opened to the attorney section.

    p.p.s.- I'll hype the holy hell out of the Fly Ti frame if we can come to some sort of an understanding.

    edit: I have a wife and kids and actually invented the whole "riding with baseball trading cards in spokes" thing back in the day. Also, I'll post a pic of the damage to the frame once I get more proficient at Photoshop.
    Last edited by grnxb; 02-15-2008 at 06:35 PM.

  40. #40
    President, CEO of Earth
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    at last, someone that makes sence and has something real to contribute. Thanks for putting the sword away. I did come out swinging, because when I did, was shortly after I got the phon

    !!!!!!!!!!

    strike from your record.
    Zaq Hyden

    You are a douche bag and a liar.

    Thank you.
    "Newfoundland dogs are good to save children from drowning, but you must have a pond of water handy" - Josh Billings

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobyNobody
    Zaq Hyden

    You are a douche bag and a liar.

    Thank you.
    I'm sorry, did I steal the love of your life or something?

    Thank you for helping me fill the spots on my ignore list with worthy entries.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  42. #42
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    why on earth is this thread still open?

    I asked nicely to close it.

    I guess the moderator wants to see it drag out or something.

    whatever - I don't think I'm going to revisit this thread ever again - contact me elsewhere.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  43. #43
    Doesntplaywellwithmorons!
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    Because we're waiting to see if bikesdirect responds again mainly to correct your facts again.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaqHydN
    why on earth is this thread still open?

    I asked nicely to close it.

    I guess the moderator wants to see it drag out or something.

    whatever - I don't think I'm going to revisit this thread ever again - contact me elsewhere.
    Look zaq, just don't feed the trolls here. There are too many of them, and as I suspect since you mentioned it, they're likely not college educated and jealous of you and your college friends. Don't feed them. You can't lose if you defend yourself with the truth and provide a strong offensive using it.

    I also put some tape on my rim and my morning ride was smoother than before.

  45. #45
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    psssssssss.....


    the sound of a thread going flat.

    Time to go ride.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobyNobody
    Zaq Hyden

    You are a douche bag and a liar.

    Thank you.

  47. #47
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    ok ok -- I've read enough. In multiple threads even. I have ONE thing to say:

    if you are referring to undersized fly-like insects that buzz in your face and annoy the hell out of you (which seems to be your usage of this word):

    IT'S "GNAT" DAMMIT!!!!!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalnjunky
    if you are referring to undersized fly-like insects that buzz in your face and annoy the hell out of you (which seems to be your usage of this word):

    IT'S "GNAT" DAMMIT!!!!!
    It's the one word I enjoy mispelling.
    "if only you try to do - then do you fail because you only tried" ZH01 (3rd PD)

  49. #49
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    can someone please kill this thread... and whos the douche in your avatar next to the lexus...?

  50. #50
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    Final post for me on this topic

    Zaq the reason that people are having a problem with you and this post is that you stated you were making a case against this manufacturer or distributor. When you post this in the manufacturer's forum you probably make those people that come here because they like their product a little ticked.

    Generally the proper thing to do is to call the manufacturer about the problem. Then if they won't work with you, which in all rights they did quite admirably, you shouldn't then go to a public forum and post pictures of the broken bike as a warning.

    I thought I was doing a good deed by potentially helping out a future issue, that perhaps you might have happen to you one day, and providing detailed information about the progress.
    If you have a problem with any business from a safety point of view file a claim with the CPSC (Claim form) they may file a recall and take actions that are needed.

    . Your a moderator, you should have the experience to identify people that can straight-talk rather than the swindlers, I ran a BBS for 6 years, I know what it's like.
    what do you think I am doing?

    Oh and I hope that you can see that your moderator(s) here is/are: any of the supermods, admins, or francis, give 'em a PM tell them that they are adolescent. See how that treats you.

    and your thread that got closed down: have a chat with Allmountain about that one, oh and make sure to mention how juvenile he is too.

    I've obviously overestimated the purpose of this BBS and it's members. It's saddening to see so many lives so desperate to cause misery among others in a wasted effort to make themselves feel bigger or better than anyone else. It's almost physical violence, and no different from it mentally.
    Finally, yes, you may have overestimate the purpose of this Forum. People come here because they love riding their bikes, they don't need a person to warn them of the dangers of riding a certain brand nor are they particularly interested in schadenfreude. The only reason that it seems so to you is that there are few for you, as you mentioned previously, and seemingly many more against you and you don't like to lose, as you also mentioned previously. I am sure that no one would miss you in the least were you to try a different BBS, give pink bike a ring.
    Try this: HTFU

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