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  1. #1
    vmb
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    Another pot thread - biking related

    I apologize in advance for another pot thread....

    In all honesty, I have been surprised by the amount of support pot has and especially on this forum (silly me, I thought most bikers shunned smoking anything in order to keep cardio conditioning - shows how much I know).

    For the supporters that say pot is harmless and isn't a big deal:

    >>>A speeding car plowed head-on into a group of cyclists in southern Italy on Sunday morning, killing eight of them, officials said. The driver had been smoking marijuana, police said.

    Link:

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12...est=latestnews

    I hate to be a pessimist, but with the trend in adoption, I just wonder how long until we see similar headlines in the US ?

    I know proponents of this drug will aspouse responsible use, don't smoke and drive, etc. but the reality is 8 cyclist died today because of it's use.

    (full disclosure, I've never tried the stuff, so don't know anything about it).

  2. #2
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    There was a similar accident in Las Vegas last week, a driver ran into 3 cyclist because he was petting his puppy.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmb
    I apologize in advance for another pot thread....

    In all honesty, I have been surprised by the amount of support pot has and especially on this forum (silly me, I thought most bikers shunned smoking anything in order to keep cardio conditioning - shows how much I know).

    For the supporters that say pot is harmless and isn't a big deal:

    >>>A speeding car plowed head-on into a group of cyclists in southern Italy on Sunday morning, killing eight of them, officials said. The driver had been smoking marijuana, police said.

    Link:

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12...est=latestnews

    I hate to be a pessimist, but with the trend in adoption, I just wonder how long until we see similar headlines in the US ?

    I know proponents of this drug will aspouse responsible use, don't smoke and drive, etc. but the reality is 8 cyclist died today because of it's use.

    (full disclosure, I've never tried the stuff, so don't know anything about it).
    Using this logic, shouldn't alcohol (or any mind-altering legal substance) be made illegal too then?

    BTW, I don't smoke either...
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    I don't smoke as well. My reply was sarcastic but what I mean by it is that just because the driver had been smoking pot doesn't mean that is why the accident occurred. I have in the past smoked pot and when I did I would drive, trust me it's not like drinking. I love how non smokers can form an opinion that is based on zero experience.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona
    I don't smoke as well. My reply was sarcastic but what I mean by it is that just because the driver had been smoking pot doesn't mean that is why the accident occurred. I have in the past smoked pot and when I did I would drive, trust me it's not like drinking. I love how non smokers can form an opinion that is based on zero experience.
    How ironic is it that your 420th post is one about pot.

    BTW, you're not suggesting that smoking and driving is okay are you?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    Pot really doesn't impair your driving, the SPEEDING is what really killed them. Marijuana does NOT affect you the way alcohol slows your reactions. Usually it makes you more cautious behind the wheel not more reckless.
    agmtb

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by abegold
    Pot really doesn't impair your driving, the SPEEDING is what really killed them. Marijuana does NOT affect you the way alcohol slows your reactions. Usually it makes you more cautious behind the wheel not more reckless.


    I call BS on that one.

    I believe everyone will agree, if legal, pot should be regulated as any other mind altering substance ... don't smoke and drive or perform open heart surgery etc...

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    +1 on Phillbo's BS call. I haven't smoked in 20 years or so, but I can readily recall an instance when I was so stoned that I could hardly keep my car on the road. At 25 mph. Driving ability affected?? Now, I do agree that pot affects you way differently than alcohol, and generally in a mellower way, but it still affects your abilities. I personally have no problem with responsible recreational use, nor responsible recreational alcohol use. I also haven't drank in almost 20 years, I was incapable of responsible recreational use.
    The question isn't who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me.

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    I almost crashed rubbing one out once.....but I was also ston ed

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona
    I don't smoke as well. My reply was sarcastic but what I mean by it is that just because the driver had been smoking pot doesn't mean that is why the accident occurred. I have in the past smoked pot and when I did I would drive, trust me it's not like drinking. I love how non smokers can form an opinion that is based on zero experience.
    agree AND it's your 420th post
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450

    <object width="450" height="370"><param name="movie" value="http://www.liveleak.com/e/fad_1237317814"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.liveleak.com/e/fad_1237317814" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowscriptaccess="always" width="450" height="370"></embed></object>
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  12. #12
    Meatbomb
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    you guys actually believe that being stoned does not impair your ability to drive in any way ????

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    you guys actually believe that being stoned does not impair your ability to drive in any way ????
    not nearly as much as driving tired and/or distracted
    I would certainly feel safer commuting by bike with "stoners" on the road rather than your typical rush-hour commuter.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    not nearly as much as driving tired and/or distracted
    That's not what Phil asked though, now is it?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    That's not what Phil asked though, now is it?
    not exactly, but my point is... wait, you mean you can't see my point?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  16. #16
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    Completely reasonable to assume that like anything, increased availability and use will come with increased accidents where pot was involved. While its definitely true that pot is readily accessible now, suggesting you won't have more users with some enhanced legalization strikes me as against common sense.

    However...

    I bet you have more accidents caused by iPhones now than 3 yrs ago. Also probably more accidents involving prescription drugs as those are used more and more, etc etc. Also there are plenty of people who don't drink and drive, we don't condemn alcohol in general because some people misuse - we condemn improper usage, of all these things.

    With regard to this specific incident, before I blame pot as the sole cause, I'd want to know more. Was the guy really stoned, a little stoned, or just have it in his system,? Was he a bad driver? Was he distracted by kids, or pass in a bad place? Running into a pack of riders where pot is the primary cause would be really stoned - Super Extreme DUI (.20) kind of stoned, which is not the typical type of arrest. Correlation in this case does not by itself establish any patterns of causality. So on that point VMB's post initially strikes me as a bit of gut-reaction and oversimplification, which probably explains some of the counter-posts.

    A good study would be one that looks at accident rates involving MJ in states that have some history of medical mj use. apples-to-apples. I don't feel that comparing alcohol availability to pot availability is good comparison in this case, since the 2 drugs affect people differently. Alcohol's first effect is your judgment. Pot, imo, does not affect decision-making the same way at limited levels. YMMV.

    I think VMB's post raises a good and fair question, that advocates of increased legalization should address with facts. Whether or not the OP has tried or not is not relevant - not a single person can honestly say it has no effect. My opinion is that just a little might make you a better driver by easing your attitude and making you more patient, but with some decreases in concentration. That's how it affects me riding or snowboarding, for example. But more than a little and you are a worse driver, overall. IMO.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by abegold
    Pot really doesn't impair your driving, the SPEEDING is what really killed them. Marijuana does NOT affect you the way alcohol slows your reactions. Usually it makes you more cautious behind the wheel not more reckless.
    That's a load of ***** right there...

    It doesn't affect you as severely as alcohol, MAYBE. But it certainly affects you the same. I know. I've wondered many times in my youth how the hell I got home 'cause I was so high...

  18. #18
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    ^^^ not as severely but the same
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  19. #19
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    you guys actually believe that being stoned does not impair your ability to drive in any way ????
    Sure it impairs your ability to drive.

    But it's fun to do riding. And skiing. Snowboarding. Having sex. Listening to music. Eating. Watching sci fi. Watching/listening to comedy...

    You get the drift: victimless enjoyment.

    But NEVER smoke and play poker. You'll lose your shirt.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmb
    >>>A speeding car plowed head-on into a group of cyclists in southern Italy on Sunday morning, killing eight of them, officials said. The driver had been smoking marijuana, police said.
    This is why I stay on the dirt and off of the road. You will never catch me on a road bike. With all the distraction that people have these days and use while driving, I prefer to press my luck with cactus and trees.

    I'm gonna say it cause this is a mountain bike forum:

    "Silly roadies, streets are for cars"

    I'm not saying that this isn't an unfortunate situation, but if they were on singletrack.....
    I'd rather be hated for what I am, than loved for what I'm not......Dolemite.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    not exactly, but my point is... wait, you mean you can't see my point?
    If your point is "two wrongs don't make a right" then yes, I do.

    Driving impaired is illegal.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    If your point is "two wrongs don't make a right" then yes, I do.

    Driving impaired is illegal.
    what is your definition of impaired?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  23. #23
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    I think it depends on the user. I'm ADD and it actually helps me focus. Yep, I said that and I mean it. Riding, driving, skiing and ****ing on weed is freaking Jedi! Maybe it's different for you but thats how it is for me. So those that believe it impairs abilities I have to ask, How often have you toked while being active? I'm guessing not much or ever even, so how the hell are you skeptics so sure of yourselves?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    what is your definition of impaired?
    The legal one. If you get into a fatal accident, and it's proven that you are sleep deprived, you will be charged, and likely going to jail.

    Again, you seriously can't be suggesting that smoking and driving is okay? My question has nothing to do with whether I think MJ should or should not be legal (FYI, I believe the former), but whether it's consider mind-altering and can impair one's judgement and motor skills.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    And for the record, I don't smoke any more. I'm a father with a job that drug tests and it's too damn expensive anyways but I will advocate for it.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    The legal one. If you get into a fatal accident, and it's proven that you are sleep deprived, you will be charged, and likely going to jail.

    Again, you seriously can't be suggesting that smoking and driving is okay? My question has nothing to do with whether I think MJ should or should not be legal (FYI, I believe the former), but whether it's consider mind-altering and can impair one's judgement and motor skills.
    everyone should go to jail because every one has driven with some impairment.

    And yes, I can be seriously suggesting that smoking and driving can be OK

    How about some real world experience...
    I won't judge my own ability because it wouldn't be a third party, but let's take my sister for an example...

    When she's driving without any smoking prior, she does things like accelerating/maintaining speed when there's a red light ahead, tailgating, speeding and making last-minute decisions...

    Conversely, after she's smoked, her moves are more calculated and relaxed, she lifts off the accelerator with a red light ahead, gives plenty of room with the car in front, doesn't speed etc...

    I feel much safer when she is "stoned" driving
    Last edited by highdelll; 12-05-2010 at 04:45 PM.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Most times too much of a good thing always leads to problems. Moderation is key.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    everyone should go to jail because every one has driven with some impairment.

    And yes, I can be seriously suggesting that smoking and driving can be OK

    How about some real world experience...
    I won't judge my own ability because it wouldn't be a third party, but let's take my sister for an example...

    When she's driving without any smoking prior, she does things like accelerating/maintaining speed when there's a red light ahead, tailgating, speeding and making last-minute decisions...

    Conversely, after she's smoked, her moves are more calculated and relaxed, she lifts off the accelerator with a red light ahead, gives plenty of room with the car in front, doesn't speed etc...

    I feel much safer when she is "stoned" driving
    Let me put it another way: if somebody gets pulled over and it's determined he/she has legally have smoked pot, said person should not be punished, even though driving under the influence is against the law?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Let me put it another way: if somebody gets pulled over and it's determined he/she has legally have smoked pot, said person should not be punished, even though driving under the influence is against the law?
    correct...should a person be punished because just because they took a nasal decongestant?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  30. #30
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    If an accident occurs, and an individual has been drinking, or smoking pot, or used a nasal decongestant, or took some ibuprofin, how do you prove that you are NOT impaired? Especially if there is a fatality.
    The question isn't who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    correct...should a person be punished because just because they took a nasal decongestant?
    Yes, if there is enough nasal decongestant taken to alter their mind/reactions.
    No different than blowing a 0.07 (legal) and a 0.08 which will get you a DUI here in AZ.
    A driver can be cited for DUI for oxycodone, percocet etc... MJ is no different.
    I don't know the traffic law exactly, but it goes a little something like this:

    A. It is unlawful for a person to drive or be in actual physical control of a vehicle in this state under any of the following circumstances:
    1. While under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, a vapor releasing substance containing a toxic substance or any combination of liquor, drugs or vapor releasing substances if the person is impaired to the slightest degree.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    Yes, if there is enough nasal decongestant taken to alter their mind/reactions.
    you should reread how I purposefully worded my sentence.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Slippery slope argument. If the cop thinks your DUI, you get to go back to the station and give blood. Although I can't imagine there is an over/under for THC in the body to constitute DUI, I'm not going to be the one to have a law named after me because I chose to test the system.

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    Texting while driving is much worse then toking.

    Thats all I got and..........

    Haven't we been here already? This all sounds very familiar.

  35. #35
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    Absolutely HILARIOUS. You crack me up.



    I mean... if FOX news says the driver had been smoking pot earlier, then yeah... pot is to blame. Every one is dead because of that evil weed marijuana!!! SO EVIL!!! Good thing we have FOX news to keep us intelligent...

    Hilarious.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona
    I don't smoke as well. My reply was sarcastic but what I mean by it is that just because the driver had been smoking pot doesn't mean that is why the accident occurred. I have in the past smoked pot and when I did I would drive, trust me it's not like drinking. I love how non smokers can form an opinion that is based on zero experience.

    You smoked pot and drove on a public street and want us to "trust you"?
    Maybe to someone else who likes getting stoned and threatening the lives of innocent people that would make some sort of sense. To me it
    is pure idiocy.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son

    You smoke pot and drove on a public street and want us to "trust you"?
    Maybe to someone else who likes getting stoned and threatening the lives of innocent people that would make some sort of sense. To me it
    is pure idiocy.
    I take it that you smoke MJ then?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by abegold
    Pot really doesn't impair your driving, the SPEEDING is what really killed them. Marijuana does NOT affect you the way alcohol slows your reactions. Usually it makes you more cautious behind the wheel not more reckless.
    Having met you and having ridden with you and having the experience of you attempting to ruin a perfectly fine ride by getting stoned, I'm not shocked by your uninformed statement. It's what I have been reading for months now on MTBR. Some of the potheads must be spending ten hours a week posting over and over regarding their love affair with getting stoned.

    Marijuana does affect how safely a person is able to drive. Maybe it is pointless trying to explain that to a pot smoker. I just got tired of how our pro-pot smoking mod has let this continue to contaminate a mountain biking forum, and feel the need to stand in opposition to what I have been reading here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    I take it that you smoke MJ then?
    Why do I get the feeling threads like this are the highlight of your day.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Having met you and having ridden with you and having the experience of you attempting to ruin a perfectly fine ride by getting stoned, I'm not shocked by your uninformed statement.


    Comedy gold right there. Gold.

    It's what I have been reading for months now on MTBR. Some of the potheads must be spending ten hours a week posting over and over regarding their love affair with getting stoned.

    Marijuana does affect how safely a person is able to drive. Maybe it is pointless trying to explain that to a pot smoker. I just got tired of how our pro-pot smoking mod has let this continue to contaminate a mountain biking forum, and feel the need to stand in opposition to what I have been reading here.
    HAHAHAHHAAA!

    Harry J. Ansliger would be pleased with your Reefer Madness



    Funny funny stuff.

    Thanks.
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  41. #41
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    i smoked pot for a month one night and i wasnt impaired in the least.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Why do I get the feeling threads like this are the highlight of your day.
    kinda, what's wrong with that?

    You never answered my question, but I'll assume you do smoke
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    everyone should go to jail because every one has driven with some impairment.
    Anyone who drives impaired in a way that violates the law and puts others lives at risk can and should be arrested. Alcohol, drugs, distracted drivers, kill many thousands of people each year. The road between Flagstaff and the Rez is littered with crosses along the roadside, representing the many lives lost because of intoxicated and stoned drivers.

    And yes, I can be seriously suggesting that smoking and driving can be OK
    Then I believe you are seriously uninformed or seriously burned out by drugs.

    How about some real world experience...
    I won't judge my own ability because it wouldn't be a third party, but let's take my sister for an example...

    When she's driving without any smoking prior, she does things like accelerating/maintaining speed when there's a red light ahead, tailgating, speeding and making last-minute decisions...

    Conversely, after she's smoked, her moves are more calculated and relaxed, she lifts off the accelerator with a red light ahead, gives plenty of room with the car in front, doesn't speed etc...

    I feel much safer when she is "stoned" driving

    Your sister is a danger to others and herself, despite her paranoia when stoned that causes her to over-compensate for her normally lousy driving habits. As a former police officer, I made many drunk driving arrests after following drivers who were driving well below the speed limits and stopping short at traffic lights. They are dangerous drivers regardless, because when faced with situations when they need to make quick decisions to avert a personal injury accidents, they hesitate and the result is often the loss of life.



    Is it possible for you to notice the sheer number of posts you have made that are totally unrelated to mountain biking and seem to indicate a pathology, possibly related to drug use?

  44. #44
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    As a former police officer,
    well..theres the problem right there!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Is it possible for you to notice the sheer number of posts you have made that are totally unrelated to mountain biking and seem to indicate a pathology, possibly related to drug use?
    wow
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Having met you and having ridden with you and having the experience of you attempting to ruin a perfectly fine ride by getting stoned, I'm not shocked by your uninformed statement. It's what I have been reading for months now on MTBR. Some of the potheads must be spending ten hours a week posting over and over regarding their love affair with getting stoned.

    Marijuana does affect how safely a person is able to drive. Maybe it is pointless trying to explain that to a pot smoker. I just got tired of how our pro-pot smoking mod has let this continue to contaminate a mountain biking forum, and feel the need to stand in opposition to what I have been reading here.
    What, a stoner with an uninformed statement? Naaaw..... Just read the other thread........

    As suspected, some stoners are more of a hinderance to the legalization to pot than anything.

    But hey, I'm sure if driver had been running hemp oil in his car and had administered some of his medicinal stash to the bikers, they would have come back to life.

    Although I am "pro" pot (as in, I don't care what you do), I have never smoked it, nor would I advocate using it while driving. But hey, can we help it that all the stoners are smarter than the rest of us?

  47. #47
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    i was surprised at the amount of folks on here that are beer drinkers. seems mountain biking and drinking beer go hand in hand on these forums. i personally feel alcohol is a much more dangerous substance then pot but that doesnt seem to matter to most folks here.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue109
    well..theres the problem right there!
    You spend the time quoting the guy... without his name, and then you insert your reply in response to the original poster at the end of the thread... And to top it of you finish with a perfectly idiotic, insulting stereotype.

    Nice job.

    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  49. #49
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    you take the internet very seriously. good job frosty!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Is it possible for you to notice the sheer number of posts you have made that are totally unrelated to mountain biking and seem to indicate a pathology, possibly related to drug use?
    Police officer? Really? I heard around Flag that you were mall security in Cleveland.

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