Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 225
  1. #1
    vmb
    vmb is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    164

    Another pot thread - biking related

    I apologize in advance for another pot thread....

    In all honesty, I have been surprised by the amount of support pot has and especially on this forum (silly me, I thought most bikers shunned smoking anything in order to keep cardio conditioning - shows how much I know).

    For the supporters that say pot is harmless and isn't a big deal:

    >>>A speeding car plowed head-on into a group of cyclists in southern Italy on Sunday morning, killing eight of them, officials said. The driver had been smoking marijuana, police said.

    Link:

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12...est=latestnews

    I hate to be a pessimist, but with the trend in adoption, I just wonder how long until we see similar headlines in the US ?

    I know proponents of this drug will aspouse responsible use, don't smoke and drive, etc. but the reality is 8 cyclist died today because of it's use.

    (full disclosure, I've never tried the stuff, so don't know anything about it).

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,153
    There was a similar accident in Las Vegas last week, a driver ran into 3 cyclist because he was petting his puppy.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by vmb
    I apologize in advance for another pot thread....

    In all honesty, I have been surprised by the amount of support pot has and especially on this forum (silly me, I thought most bikers shunned smoking anything in order to keep cardio conditioning - shows how much I know).

    For the supporters that say pot is harmless and isn't a big deal:

    >>>A speeding car plowed head-on into a group of cyclists in southern Italy on Sunday morning, killing eight of them, officials said. The driver had been smoking marijuana, police said.

    Link:

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12...est=latestnews

    I hate to be a pessimist, but with the trend in adoption, I just wonder how long until we see similar headlines in the US ?

    I know proponents of this drug will aspouse responsible use, don't smoke and drive, etc. but the reality is 8 cyclist died today because of it's use.

    (full disclosure, I've never tried the stuff, so don't know anything about it).
    Using this logic, shouldn't alcohol (or any mind-altering legal substance) be made illegal too then?

    BTW, I don't smoke either...
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,153
    I don't smoke as well. My reply was sarcastic but what I mean by it is that just because the driver had been smoking pot doesn't mean that is why the accident occurred. I have in the past smoked pot and when I did I would drive, trust me it's not like drinking. I love how non smokers can form an opinion that is based on zero experience.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona
    I don't smoke as well. My reply was sarcastic but what I mean by it is that just because the driver had been smoking pot doesn't mean that is why the accident occurred. I have in the past smoked pot and when I did I would drive, trust me it's not like drinking. I love how non smokers can form an opinion that is based on zero experience.
    How ironic is it that your 420th post is one about pot.

    BTW, you're not suggesting that smoking and driving is okay are you?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,371
    Pot really doesn't impair your driving, the SPEEDING is what really killed them. Marijuana does NOT affect you the way alcohol slows your reactions. Usually it makes you more cautious behind the wheel not more reckless.
    agmtb

  7. #7
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5,788
    Quote Originally Posted by abegold
    Pot really doesn't impair your driving, the SPEEDING is what really killed them. Marijuana does NOT affect you the way alcohol slows your reactions. Usually it makes you more cautious behind the wheel not more reckless.


    I call BS on that one.

    I believe everyone will agree, if legal, pot should be regulated as any other mind altering substance ... don't smoke and drive or perform open heart surgery etc...

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    655
    +1 on Phillbo's BS call. I haven't smoked in 20 years or so, but I can readily recall an instance when I was so stoned that I could hardly keep my car on the road. At 25 mph. Driving ability affected?? Now, I do agree that pot affects you way differently than alcohol, and generally in a mellower way, but it still affects your abilities. I personally have no problem with responsible recreational use, nor responsible recreational alcohol use. I also haven't drank in almost 20 years, I was incapable of responsible recreational use.
    The question isn't who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me.

  9. #9
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    80
    I almost crashed rubbing one out once.....but I was also ston ed

  10. #10
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona
    I don't smoke as well. My reply was sarcastic but what I mean by it is that just because the driver had been smoking pot doesn't mean that is why the accident occurred. I have in the past smoked pot and when I did I would drive, trust me it's not like drinking. I love how non smokers can form an opinion that is based on zero experience.
    agree AND it's your 420th post
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  11. #11
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450

    <object width="450" height="370"><param name="movie" value="http://www.liveleak.com/e/fad_1237317814"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.liveleak.com/e/fad_1237317814" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" allowscriptaccess="always" width="450" height="370"></embed></object>
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  12. #12
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5,788
    you guys actually believe that being stoned does not impair your ability to drive in any way ????

  13. #13
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    you guys actually believe that being stoned does not impair your ability to drive in any way ????
    not nearly as much as driving tired and/or distracted
    I would certainly feel safer commuting by bike with "stoners" on the road rather than your typical rush-hour commuter.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    not nearly as much as driving tired and/or distracted
    That's not what Phil asked though, now is it?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  15. #15
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    That's not what Phil asked though, now is it?
    not exactly, but my point is... wait, you mean you can't see my point?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  16. #16
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,127
    Completely reasonable to assume that like anything, increased availability and use will come with increased accidents where pot was involved. While its definitely true that pot is readily accessible now, suggesting you won't have more users with some enhanced legalization strikes me as against common sense.

    However...

    I bet you have more accidents caused by iPhones now than 3 yrs ago. Also probably more accidents involving prescription drugs as those are used more and more, etc etc. Also there are plenty of people who don't drink and drive, we don't condemn alcohol in general because some people misuse - we condemn improper usage, of all these things.

    With regard to this specific incident, before I blame pot as the sole cause, I'd want to know more. Was the guy really stoned, a little stoned, or just have it in his system,? Was he a bad driver? Was he distracted by kids, or pass in a bad place? Running into a pack of riders where pot is the primary cause would be really stoned - Super Extreme DUI (.20) kind of stoned, which is not the typical type of arrest. Correlation in this case does not by itself establish any patterns of causality. So on that point VMB's post initially strikes me as a bit of gut-reaction and oversimplification, which probably explains some of the counter-posts.

    A good study would be one that looks at accident rates involving MJ in states that have some history of medical mj use. apples-to-apples. I don't feel that comparing alcohol availability to pot availability is good comparison in this case, since the 2 drugs affect people differently. Alcohol's first effect is your judgment. Pot, imo, does not affect decision-making the same way at limited levels. YMMV.

    I think VMB's post raises a good and fair question, that advocates of increased legalization should address with facts. Whether or not the OP has tried or not is not relevant - not a single person can honestly say it has no effect. My opinion is that just a little might make you a better driver by easing your attitude and making you more patient, but with some decreases in concentration. That's how it affects me riding or snowboarding, for example. But more than a little and you are a worse driver, overall. IMO.

  17. #17
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation: big0mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,881
    Quote Originally Posted by abegold
    Pot really doesn't impair your driving, the SPEEDING is what really killed them. Marijuana does NOT affect you the way alcohol slows your reactions. Usually it makes you more cautious behind the wheel not more reckless.
    That's a load of ***** right there...

    It doesn't affect you as severely as alcohol, MAYBE. But it certainly affects you the same. I know. I've wondered many times in my youth how the hell I got home 'cause I was so high...

  18. #18
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    ^^^ not as severely but the same
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  19. #19
    dwt
    dwt is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dwt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    you guys actually believe that being stoned does not impair your ability to drive in any way ????
    Sure it impairs your ability to drive.

    But it's fun to do riding. And skiing. Snowboarding. Having sex. Listening to music. Eating. Watching sci fi. Watching/listening to comedy...

    You get the drift: victimless enjoyment.

    But NEVER smoke and play poker. You'll lose your shirt.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  20. #20
    Shift less, Pedal more.
    Reputation: Birdss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    512
    Quote Originally Posted by vmb
    >>>A speeding car plowed head-on into a group of cyclists in southern Italy on Sunday morning, killing eight of them, officials said. The driver had been smoking marijuana, police said.
    This is why I stay on the dirt and off of the road. You will never catch me on a road bike. With all the distraction that people have these days and use while driving, I prefer to press my luck with cactus and trees.

    I'm gonna say it cause this is a mountain bike forum:

    "Silly roadies, streets are for cars"

    I'm not saying that this isn't an unfortunate situation, but if they were on singletrack.....
    I'd rather be hated for what I am, than loved for what I'm not......Dolemite.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    not exactly, but my point is... wait, you mean you can't see my point?
    If your point is "two wrongs don't make a right" then yes, I do.

    Driving impaired is illegal.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  22. #22
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    If your point is "two wrongs don't make a right" then yes, I do.

    Driving impaired is illegal.
    what is your definition of impaired?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,153
    I think it depends on the user. I'm ADD and it actually helps me focus. Yep, I said that and I mean it. Riding, driving, skiing and ****ing on weed is freaking Jedi! Maybe it's different for you but thats how it is for me. So those that believe it impairs abilities I have to ask, How often have you toked while being active? I'm guessing not much or ever even, so how the hell are you skeptics so sure of yourselves?

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    what is your definition of impaired?
    The legal one. If you get into a fatal accident, and it's proven that you are sleep deprived, you will be charged, and likely going to jail.

    Again, you seriously can't be suggesting that smoking and driving is okay? My question has nothing to do with whether I think MJ should or should not be legal (FYI, I believe the former), but whether it's consider mind-altering and can impair one's judgement and motor skills.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,153
    And for the record, I don't smoke any more. I'm a father with a job that drug tests and it's too damn expensive anyways but I will advocate for it.

  26. #26
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    The legal one. If you get into a fatal accident, and it's proven that you are sleep deprived, you will be charged, and likely going to jail.

    Again, you seriously can't be suggesting that smoking and driving is okay? My question has nothing to do with whether I think MJ should or should not be legal (FYI, I believe the former), but whether it's consider mind-altering and can impair one's judgement and motor skills.
    everyone should go to jail because every one has driven with some impairment.

    And yes, I can be seriously suggesting that smoking and driving can be OK

    How about some real world experience...
    I won't judge my own ability because it wouldn't be a third party, but let's take my sister for an example...

    When she's driving without any smoking prior, she does things like accelerating/maintaining speed when there's a red light ahead, tailgating, speeding and making last-minute decisions...

    Conversely, after she's smoked, her moves are more calculated and relaxed, she lifts off the accelerator with a red light ahead, gives plenty of room with the car in front, doesn't speed etc...

    I feel much safer when she is "stoned" driving
    Last edited by highdelll; 12-05-2010 at 05:45 PM.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    89
    Most times too much of a good thing always leads to problems. Moderation is key.

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    everyone should go to jail because every one has driven with some impairment.

    And yes, I can be seriously suggesting that smoking and driving can be OK

    How about some real world experience...
    I won't judge my own ability because it wouldn't be a third party, but let's take my sister for an example...

    When she's driving without any smoking prior, she does things like accelerating/maintaining speed when there's a red light ahead, tailgating, speeding and making last-minute decisions...

    Conversely, after she's smoked, her moves are more calculated and relaxed, she lifts off the accelerator with a red light ahead, gives plenty of room with the car in front, doesn't speed etc...

    I feel much safer when she is "stoned" driving
    Let me put it another way: if somebody gets pulled over and it's determined he/she has legally have smoked pot, said person should not be punished, even though driving under the influence is against the law?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  29. #29
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Let me put it another way: if somebody gets pulled over and it's determined he/she has legally have smoked pot, said person should not be punished, even though driving under the influence is against the law?
    correct...should a person be punished because just because they took a nasal decongestant?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    655
    If an accident occurs, and an individual has been drinking, or smoking pot, or used a nasal decongestant, or took some ibuprofin, how do you prove that you are NOT impaired? Especially if there is a fatality.
    The question isn't who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GR1822's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,089
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    correct...should a person be punished because just because they took a nasal decongestant?
    Yes, if there is enough nasal decongestant taken to alter their mind/reactions.
    No different than blowing a 0.07 (legal) and a 0.08 which will get you a DUI here in AZ.
    A driver can be cited for DUI for oxycodone, percocet etc... MJ is no different.
    I don't know the traffic law exactly, but it goes a little something like this:

    A. It is unlawful for a person to drive or be in actual physical control of a vehicle in this state under any of the following circumstances:
    1. While under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, a vapor releasing substance containing a toxic substance or any combination of liquor, drugs or vapor releasing substances if the person is impaired to the slightest degree.

  32. #32
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    Yes, if there is enough nasal decongestant taken to alter their mind/reactions.
    you should reread how I purposefully worded my sentence.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GR1822's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,089
    Slippery slope argument. If the cop thinks your DUI, you get to go back to the station and give blood. Although I can't imagine there is an over/under for THC in the body to constitute DUI, I'm not going to be the one to have a law named after me because I chose to test the system.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,153
    Texting while driving is much worse then toking.

    Thats all I got and..........

    Haven't we been here already? This all sounds very familiar.

  35. #35
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Absolutely HILARIOUS. You crack me up.



    I mean... if FOX news says the driver had been smoking pot earlier, then yeah... pot is to blame. Every one is dead because of that evil weed marijuana!!! SO EVIL!!! Good thing we have FOX news to keep us intelligent...

    Hilarious.
    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  36. #36
    banned
    Reputation: The Prodigal Son's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    860
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona
    I don't smoke as well. My reply was sarcastic but what I mean by it is that just because the driver had been smoking pot doesn't mean that is why the accident occurred. I have in the past smoked pot and when I did I would drive, trust me it's not like drinking. I love how non smokers can form an opinion that is based on zero experience.

    You smoked pot and drove on a public street and want us to "trust you"?
    Maybe to someone else who likes getting stoned and threatening the lives of innocent people that would make some sort of sense. To me it
    is pure idiocy.

  37. #37
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son

    You smoke pot and drove on a public street and want us to "trust you"?
    Maybe to someone else who likes getting stoned and threatening the lives of innocent people that would make some sort of sense. To me it
    is pure idiocy.
    I take it that you smoke MJ then?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  38. #38
    banned
    Reputation: The Prodigal Son's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    860
    Quote Originally Posted by abegold
    Pot really doesn't impair your driving, the SPEEDING is what really killed them. Marijuana does NOT affect you the way alcohol slows your reactions. Usually it makes you more cautious behind the wheel not more reckless.
    Having met you and having ridden with you and having the experience of you attempting to ruin a perfectly fine ride by getting stoned, I'm not shocked by your uninformed statement. It's what I have been reading for months now on MTBR. Some of the potheads must be spending ten hours a week posting over and over regarding their love affair with getting stoned.

    Marijuana does affect how safely a person is able to drive. Maybe it is pointless trying to explain that to a pot smoker. I just got tired of how our pro-pot smoking mod has let this continue to contaminate a mountain biking forum, and feel the need to stand in opposition to what I have been reading here.

  39. #39
    banned
    Reputation: The Prodigal Son's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    860
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    I take it that you smoke MJ then?
    Why do I get the feeling threads like this are the highlight of your day.

  40. #40
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Having met you and having ridden with you and having the experience of you attempting to ruin a perfectly fine ride by getting stoned, I'm not shocked by your uninformed statement.


    Comedy gold right there. Gold.

    It's what I have been reading for months now on MTBR. Some of the potheads must be spending ten hours a week posting over and over regarding their love affair with getting stoned.

    Marijuana does affect how safely a person is able to drive. Maybe it is pointless trying to explain that to a pot smoker. I just got tired of how our pro-pot smoking mod has let this continue to contaminate a mountain biking forum, and feel the need to stand in opposition to what I have been reading here.
    HAHAHAHHAAA!

    Harry J. Ansliger would be pleased with your Reefer Madness



    Funny funny stuff.

    Thanks.
    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: blue109's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    531
    i smoked pot for a month one night and i wasnt impaired in the least.

  42. #42
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Why do I get the feeling threads like this are the highlight of your day.
    kinda, what's wrong with that?

    You never answered my question, but I'll assume you do smoke
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  43. #43
    banned
    Reputation: The Prodigal Son's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    860
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    everyone should go to jail because every one has driven with some impairment.
    Anyone who drives impaired in a way that violates the law and puts others lives at risk can and should be arrested. Alcohol, drugs, distracted drivers, kill many thousands of people each year. The road between Flagstaff and the Rez is littered with crosses along the roadside, representing the many lives lost because of intoxicated and stoned drivers.

    And yes, I can be seriously suggesting that smoking and driving can be OK
    Then I believe you are seriously uninformed or seriously burned out by drugs.

    How about some real world experience...
    I won't judge my own ability because it wouldn't be a third party, but let's take my sister for an example...

    When she's driving without any smoking prior, she does things like accelerating/maintaining speed when there's a red light ahead, tailgating, speeding and making last-minute decisions...

    Conversely, after she's smoked, her moves are more calculated and relaxed, she lifts off the accelerator with a red light ahead, gives plenty of room with the car in front, doesn't speed etc...

    I feel much safer when she is "stoned" driving

    Your sister is a danger to others and herself, despite her paranoia when stoned that causes her to over-compensate for her normally lousy driving habits. As a former police officer, I made many drunk driving arrests after following drivers who were driving well below the speed limits and stopping short at traffic lights. They are dangerous drivers regardless, because when faced with situations when they need to make quick decisions to avert a personal injury accidents, they hesitate and the result is often the loss of life.



    Is it possible for you to notice the sheer number of posts you have made that are totally unrelated to mountain biking and seem to indicate a pathology, possibly related to drug use?

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: blue109's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    531
    As a former police officer,
    well..theres the problem right there!

  45. #45
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Is it possible for you to notice the sheer number of posts you have made that are totally unrelated to mountain biking and seem to indicate a pathology, possibly related to drug use?
    wow
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,321
    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Having met you and having ridden with you and having the experience of you attempting to ruin a perfectly fine ride by getting stoned, I'm not shocked by your uninformed statement. It's what I have been reading for months now on MTBR. Some of the potheads must be spending ten hours a week posting over and over regarding their love affair with getting stoned.

    Marijuana does affect how safely a person is able to drive. Maybe it is pointless trying to explain that to a pot smoker. I just got tired of how our pro-pot smoking mod has let this continue to contaminate a mountain biking forum, and feel the need to stand in opposition to what I have been reading here.
    What, a stoner with an uninformed statement? Naaaw..... Just read the other thread........

    As suspected, some stoners are more of a hinderance to the legalization to pot than anything.

    But hey, I'm sure if driver had been running hemp oil in his car and had administered some of his medicinal stash to the bikers, they would have come back to life.

    Although I am "pro" pot (as in, I don't care what you do), I have never smoked it, nor would I advocate using it while driving. But hey, can we help it that all the stoners are smarter than the rest of us?

  47. #47
    Cthulhu fhtagn
    Reputation: Mike Gager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    440
    i was surprised at the amount of folks on here that are beer drinkers. seems mountain biking and drinking beer go hand in hand on these forums. i personally feel alcohol is a much more dangerous substance then pot but that doesnt seem to matter to most folks here.
    Specialized HardRock 29er
    Nashbar 29er SS

  48. #48
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by blue109
    well..theres the problem right there!
    You spend the time quoting the guy... without his name, and then you insert your reply in response to the original poster at the end of the thread... And to top it of you finish with a perfectly idiotic, insulting stereotype.

    Nice job.

    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: blue109's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    531
    you take the internet very seriously. good job frosty!

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,153
    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Is it possible for you to notice the sheer number of posts you have made that are totally unrelated to mountain biking and seem to indicate a pathology, possibly related to drug use?
    Police officer? Really? I heard around Flag that you were mall security in Cleveland.

  51. #51
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by blue109
    you take the internet very seriously. good job frosty!
    It has little to do with the internet and more to do with your continued misuse of it.

    But hey... you go ahead and carry on with it. I just thought you might like to actually communicate with the people you are trying to speak to, but if you don't care about that stupid stuff... that is cool. Go ahead and own it.
    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: blue109's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    531
    hey officer frosty...the internet was officially invented for porn and ordering perscription meds from canada, so everyone typing on this bicycle forum is clearly misusing it.

    (unless you have a large monitor with several windows open at once, or you touch your unmentionables while looking at bike pictures)

  53. #53
    banned
    Reputation: The Prodigal Son's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    860
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    Completely reasonable to assume that like anything, increased availability and use will come with increased accidents where pot was involved. While its definitely true that pot is readily accessible now, suggesting you won't have more users with some enhanced legalization strikes me as against common sense.

    Why do people act as though they have no idea what will happen in Arizona with the new law? Did everyone just fail to watch what happened in California? There must be something about the senses of pot smokers that is far less than common, or even adequate.

    However...

    I bet you have more accidents caused by iPhones now than 3 yrs ago. Also probably more accidents involving prescription drugs as those are used more and more, etc etc. Also there are plenty of people who don't drink and drive, we don't condemn alcohol in general because some people misuse - we condemn improper usage, of all these things.

    I think it's time to condemn alcohol in general. Remove all the mind-numbingly idiotic beer commercials from the airwaves. Remove alcohol advertisements from magazines and billboards. Reduce the number of places to purchase it. Reduce the number of liquor licenses and suspend them after one violation of liquor laws. Stop allowing pot smokers to begin all discussions by saying that alcohol is really awful for society and we allow it so we need to have more really awful intoxicants to kill more people and destroy more lives.

    With regard to this specific incident, before I blame pot as the sole cause, I'd want to know more. Was the guy really stoned, a little stoned, or just have it in his system,? Was he a bad driver? Was he distracted by kids, or pass in a bad place? Running into a pack of riders where pot is the primary cause would be really stoned - Super Extreme DUI (.20) kind of stoned, which is not the typical type of arrest. Correlation in this case does not by itself establish any patterns of causality. So on that point VMB's post initially strikes me as a bit of gut-reaction and oversimplification, which probably explains some of the counter-posts.

    It is likely that pot contributed to this accident in some way. Pot smokers generally deny any relationship that pot has to criminal behavior. They instead joke about getting the munchies and being mellow. As a former police officer and prison guard, I can attest to the fact that most people who are incarcerated, especially those who commit violent offenses, were smoking pot and drinking just prior to their crime. It might be as high as 90% of convicts. It was at my prison.

    On the front page of the AZ Daily Sun this past week, here in Flagstaf, was a picture of a 22-year old man who had sexually assaulted an 18-year old student at NAU. Toward the end of the story, you can read the following...

    In addition to the warrant for his arrest, Wilson also has pending domestic violence and marijuana possession charges out of Flagstaff Municipal Court.
    One of the other lead stories of the last week was; Drug Murder Accomplice Gets 5 Years. That story revolved around a few low level pot dealers who had a dispute over some stolen drugs, resulting in a group of three kidnapping the victim and executing him out in the woods.

    Pot smokers will shrug these stories off by saying all crime goes away when drugs are more accessible. In California, we have learned the truth. Their is now more violence around drug dispenseries. Making drugs more accessible does not make them free. Criminals will always prefer free, stolen drugs to ones they have to pay for. Guns and acts of violence are merely a means to and end. People who crave drugs and getting high and escaping their miserable lives, can justify their self-absorbed lifestyle.


    A good study would be one that looks at accident rates involving MJ in states that have some history of medical mj use. apples-to-apples. I don't feel that comparing alcohol availability to pot availability is good comparison in this case, since the 2 drugs affect people differently. Alcohol's first effect is your judgment. Pot, imo, does not affect decision-making the same way at limited levels. YMMV.

    That's what we need, more studies. Maybe funded by George Soros or High Times Magazine. No studies are needed. California has been the proving ground. Pot has proven to affect decision-making. Less than a week ago my best friend, who lives in Sacramento and runs a restaurant downtown, was driving home from work and was struck by someone who ran a red light. The police officer responding said the driver was stoned, driving without a license, driving without insurance, and driving an unregistered truck. The officer had to leave the scene to respond to a barricaded gunman call. My friend called me to ask what to do while waiting. I told him I was shocked the other driver had not left the scene of the accident, despite being warned not to leave before another officer arrived. A moment later he did, in fact, drive away. He may end up in jail. My friend will use his uninsured motorist policy. His rates may increase because of a pot smoking driver. My friend was uninjured. The pot smoking driver never asked if he was injured. A day later my friend contacted the police to gether more information for his insurance company. The officer stated their has been an epidemic of traffic accidents involving pot smokers around the state. He said it was difficult to determine the levels of impairment, other than to judge it based on the accident itself.


    I think VMB's post raises a good and fair question, that advocates of increased legalization should address with facts. Whether or not the OP has tried or not is not relevant - not a single person can honestly say it has no effect. My opinion is that just a little might make you a better driver by easing your attitude and making you more patient, but with some decreases in concentration. That's how it affects me riding or snowboarding, for example. But more than a little and you are a worse driver, overall.

    So, in conclusion, you believe we need to get all drivers to smoke just a wee bit of pot before heading out on the public thoroughfares? And despite stating that not a single person can honestly say that pot has no effect on driving ability, there have already been people here saying just that. So be clear here, you believe they are dishonest in how they view the use of pot. Sadly, like so many other issues, most peoples oipinion is that they don't care one way or the other. Until it effects them personally, and they are victimized, they say live and let live.

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: DJ Giggity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,224
    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Having met you and having ridden with you and having the experience of you attempting to ruin a perfectly fine ride by getting stoned, I'm not shocked by your uninformed statement. It's what I have been reading for months now on MTBR. Some of the potheads must be spending ten hours a week posting over and over regarding their love affair with getting stoned.

    Marijuana does affect how safely a person is able to drive. Maybe it is pointless trying to explain that to a pot smoker. I just got tired of how our pro-pot smoking mod has let this continue to contaminate a mountain biking forum, and feel the need to stand in opposition to what I have been reading here.
    You should consider changing your user name to Buzz Killington. You have got to be the lamest person on this whole site. I am betting you ride alone a lot.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
    - Albert Einstein

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,321
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity
    You should consider changing your user name to Buzz Killington. You have got to be the lamest person on this whole site. I am betting you ride alone a lot.
    Stoner?

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Milos''s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona
    There was a similar accident in Las Vegas last week, a driver ran into 3 cyclist because he was petting his puppy.
    ban puppies

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Milos''s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    147
    If pot wasn't involved I wonder if it would have been picked up by Faux News

    Or if the driver had been drinking alcohol...

    No agenda there.

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation: midget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    391
    Phone use still remains the biggest problem. Talk about impairing your abilities...

    More people drive Impaired via phone than any other substance. Fact.
    i never thought i'd be 43 and living here......i kinda wanted to be a rockstar..." Mark Hendershot

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,153
    Anybody want to come over for some B-Rips? I'm going to get lit and head over to The Outback Steak House for some munchies. I'm driving.

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GR1822's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    2,089
    Quote Originally Posted by midget
    Phone use still remains the biggest problem. Talk about impairing your abilities...

    More people drive Impaired via phone than any other substance. Fact.
    True

  61. #61
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation: big0mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,881
    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Marijuana does affect how safely a person is able to drive. Maybe it is pointless trying to explain that to a pot smoker.
    Ya think?

    Quote Originally Posted by midget
    Being stupid and not knowing how to drive remains the biggest problem.
    FYP. If we had to pass an IQ test and a skills test, a real skills test, there'd be a lot of people taking the bus. The real skills test would be timed.

    A sample question on my REAL test:

    1. You are a dumbass and don't know where you are going. You find yourself approaching an intersection that you need to turn left at but you are in the right lane. Do you:
    a. Turn right and make a U turn when safe to do so and allowed by law so as to not inconvenience all the other motorists on the street.
    b. Continue through the intersection and make a U turn when safe to do so and allowed by law so as to not inconvenience all the other motorists on the street. Then turn right at the intersection.
    c. Stand on your brakes like an ass hole with your blinker on hoping that all three lanes of traffic will stop and let your stupid ass over. It matters not that your are blocking traffic and inconveniencing a string of motorists as they should certainly pay the price for your stupidity.

    Stupid people are the biggest problem. And that problem is exacerbated by the fact that stupid people don't realize how stupid they are and how dangerous they make driving. Nor do they realize how easy it is if you just pay attention. And, since they are stupid, they don't realize that stupid and driving distracted while on the phone is exponentially dangerous.

  62. #62
    Need more cowbell
    Reputation: WhiskersOfDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    936
    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    Stupid people are the biggest problem.

    ....and they vote.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    you should reread how I purposefully worded my sentence.
    I reread it, and I still don't understand your point.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  64. #64
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,939
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona
    Anybody want to come over for some B-Rips? I'm going to get lit and head over to The Outback Steak House for some munchies. I'm driving.

    Clouded judgement.... The Smart Doper goes to Sizzler for Steak and All You Can Eat Popcorn Shrimp when the munchies strike.

    Since riding a bike is considered operating a vehicle in AZ, is riding while stoned considered operating a vehicle while driving or Riding Under the Influence while on public road or trails?

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nsavarirayan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    Having met you and having ridden with you and having the experience of you attempting to ruin a perfectly fine ride by getting stoned, I'm not shocked by your uninformed statement. It's what I have been reading for months now on MTBR. Some of the potheads must be spending ten hours a week posting over and over regarding their love affair with getting stoned.

    Marijuana does affect how safely a person is able to drive. Maybe it is pointless trying to explain that to a pot smoker. I just got tired of how our pro-pot smoking mod has let this continue to contaminate a mountain biking forum, and feel the need to stand in opposition to what I have been reading here.
    Wow what an uniformed post. If you feel these threads contaminate the site why do you bother to post in here with your lame opinions? I repeat the others posts that the bottom line for bad drivers is distractions. People are always on the phone and texting while driving - hell I think thats what needs to made illegal! You are so uptight that you think people are wrecking your ride because they got stoned? The bottom line is that these stories about marijuana causing accidents are extremely mimimal (not even in this country) and very subjective. Not lets move on to the stories that occur daily about drinking and driving, texting while driving, checking out some hot chick on the sidewalk while driving, etc... These are your main headlines which basically makes me have to assume that all the stoned drivers out there are not doing such a bad job.

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,321
    Just because other things might make a driver more or simalarly impaired does not mean pot does not impair.......

    I mean, does pot get people "high" or not?

    As much as I want to put my faith in the stoner brain trust, more reserach is needed.

  67. #67
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,127
    i wonder if he knows he's on my ignore list?

  68. #68
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by blue109
    hey officer frosty...
    Now I'm a cop? Awesome.

    I suggest you put down the sheet of blotter. The half-life on that crap is what will screw you up.

    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  69. #69
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem
    Just because other things might make a driver more or simalarly impaired does not mean pot does not impair.......
    Sure it impairs, but certainly not on the same level for everyone. And MOST certainly not on the level of alcohol.

    I mean, does pot get people "high" or not?
    Cigarettes get you high. If I smoked a cig right now, I would be WAY dizzy AND screwed up... sweating and mouth watering. Sick. Driving? Pffft... not for 10 minutes at least. I might even puke if I smoked a cig. Probably would if I smoked an entire one.

    "High" is meaningless. It is different for everyone and depends on myriad factors.

    As much as I want to put my faith in the stoner brain trust, more reserach is needed.
    You are just of the PC mentality; biased.
    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyStruthers
    Sure it impairs, but certainly not on the same level for everyone. And MOST certainly not on the level of alcohol.



    Cigarettes get you high. If I smoked a cig right now, I would be WAY dizzy AND screwed up... sweating and mouth watering. Sick. Driving? Pffft... not for 10 minutes at least. I might even puke if I smoked a cig. Probably would if I smoked an entire one.

    "High" is meaningless. It is different for everyone and depends on myriad factors.



    You are just of the PC mentality; biased.
    And your point? I'm sure there are plenty who will say they are fine to drive after a couple beers. So, does that mean it's okay to drink and drive? (And I'll be the first to admit that I have driven a car with alcohol in my system. But I would never suggest that we need to abolish or lessen the drunk driving laws just because I personally feel I can drive after having a drink or two. I'm not sure why there are so many on here suggesting it's okay to smoke and drive based on personal experience.)
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  71. #71
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I reread it, and I still don't understand your point.
    I said "just because"
    It spoke to nothing of impairment level
    In other words "should someone be punished for the simple fact that they took a sinus medication?"
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  72. #72
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    And your point? I'm sure there are plenty who will say they are fine to drive after a couple beers. So, does that mean it's okay to drink and drive? (And I'll be the first to admit that I have driven a car with alcohol in my system. But I would never suggest that we need to abolish or lessen the drunk driving laws just because I personally feel I can drive after having a drink or two. I'm not sure why there are so many on here suggesting it's okay to smoke and drive based on personal experience.)
    This is not about driving drunk. It is not even about driving while impaired. The only known fact here is that the guy happened to test positive for weed... something that can happen for weeks after smoking.

    My point is that nothing related to the weed matters here. The cyclists are not dead due to weed. I've ridden that road. It is junk. It is a tiny state style highway where everyone goes 80kph. Passing is dangerous. Biking in groups is even more dangerous. Every single year the biking clubs complain about the hectic mess it is.

    The guy driving was a self-entitled jerk from Morocco. He has many careless driving violations as well as exhibition of speed violations. In fact, his license was suspended at the time of the incident. Suspended. He should not have been on the road. The fact that he probably smoked weed at some point in the prior 30 days to the incident is meaningless. It had nothing to do with it. Nothing at all.

    It is typical of people that are very ignorant to the effects of marijuana to jump on this fox presented bandwagon, but that is all it is: A bandwagon... a fallacy of logical thought. Appealing to the Bandwagon.

    The point and the pity is that these bandwagon followers use the dead to make their ignorant points. They don't care about the dead, all they seem to care about is the weed. Pretty inconsiderate. Pretty self-serving. Pretty trite. Pretty arrogant. Pretty ignorant.
    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  73. #73
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    And your point? I'm sure there are plenty who will say they are fine to drive after a couple beers. So, does that mean it's okay to drink and drive? (And I'll be the first to admit that I have driven a car with alcohol in my system. But I would never suggest that we need to abolish or lessen the drunk driving laws just because I personally feel I can drive after having a drink or two. I'm not sure why there are so many on here suggesting it's okay to smoke and drive based on personal experience.)
    Umm, It's legal to drive after a beer or two (for the average body weight person)
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    I said "just because"
    It spoke to nothing of impairment level
    In other words "should someone be punished for the simple fact that they took a sinus medication?"
    Whoever said somebody should be punished for the simple fact that they took one puff off a marijuana cigarette?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  75. #75
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Whoever said somebody should be punished for the simple fact that they took one puff off a marijuana cigarette?
    umm You did
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Let me put it another way: if somebody gets pulled over and it's determined he/she has legally have smoked pot, said person should not be punished,, even though driving under the influence is against the law?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyStruthers
    This is not about driving drunk. It is not even about driving while impaired. The only known fact here is that the guy happened to test positive for weed... something that can happen for weeks after smoking.

    My point is that nothing related to the weed matters here. The cyclists are not dead due to weed. I've ridden that road. It is junk. It is a tiny state style highway where everyone goes 80kph. Passing is dangerous. Biking in groups is even more dangerous. Every single year the biking clubs complain about the hectic mess it is.

    The guy driving was a self-entitled jerk from Morocco. He has many careless driving violations as well as exhibition of speed violations. In fact, his license was suspended at the time of the incident. Suspended. He should not have been on the road. The fact that he probably smoked weed at some point in the prior 30 days to the incident is meaningless. It had nothing to do with it. Nothing at all.

    It is typical of people that are very ignorant to the effects of marijuana to jump on this fox presented bandwagon, but that is all it is: A bandwagon... a fallacy of logical thought. Appealing to the Bandwagon.

    The point and the pity is that these bandwagon followers use the dead to make their ignorant points. They don't care about the dead, all they seem to care about is the weed. Pretty inconsiderate. Pretty self-serving. Pretty trite. Pretty arrogant. Pretty ignorant.
    I'm pretty sure that 99% of the responses to the OP oppose his initial claim that MJ is to blame, or at least feel the OP is making a very broad claim. It's the bozos who come on here and say that they are actually better drivers when they smoke that have sparked most of this debate.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Umm, It's legal to drive after a beer or two (for the average body weight person)
    Actually, as far as I'm aware you can still be arrested for a DUI (Driving Under the Influence).
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    umm You did
    I did? Go back and reread that.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  79. #79
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    7,939
    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyStruthers
    This is not about driving drunk. It is not even about driving while impaired. The only known fact here is that the guy happened to test positive for weed... something that can happen for weeks after smoking.

    My point is that nothing related to the weed matters here. The cyclists are not dead due to weed. I've ridden that road. It is junk. It is a tiny state style highway where everyone goes 80kph. Passing is dangerous. Biking in groups is even more dangerous. Every single year the biking clubs complain about the hectic mess it is.

    The guy driving was a self-entitled jerk from Morocco. He has many careless driving violations as well as exhibition of speed violations. In fact, his license was suspended at the time of the incident. Suspended. He should not have been on the road. The fact that he probably smoked weed at some point in the prior 30 days to the incident is meaningless. It had nothing to do with it. Nothing at all.

    It is typical of people that are very ignorant to the effects of marijuana to jump on this fox presented bandwagon, but that is all it is: A bandwagon... a fallacy of logical thought. Appealing to the Bandwagon.

    The point and the pity is that these bandwagon followers use the dead to make their ignorant points. They don't care about the dead, all they seem to care about is the weed. Pretty inconsiderate. Pretty self-serving. Pretty trite. Pretty arrogant. Pretty ignorant.

    Yet you feel that CBS, NBC, ABC and the Communist News Network don't fill your head with propaganda either?
    Rose colored glasses for you, I guess? That was quite some spin you threw on the story, posting everything as 'fact' when you witnessed nothing.

  80. #80
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I did? Go back and reread that.
    I have, you were asking 'you don't think they should?' type of question - your position on the question is implied...
    ask anyone else who understands englis how your question reads (along with the posts included before)
    If I'm wrong, that I guess you are in favor of smokin a hit and driving and we are in agreement.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    [QUOTE=highdelllIf I'm wrong, that I guess you are in favor of smokin a hit and driving and we are in agreement.[/QUOTE]
    I'm in favor of personal responsibility. If you feel that you're in 100% control with any sort of imparing element, including sleep deprivation, cough medicine, etc., then fine. But if you get in an accident, and it's determined that said element was a factor in said accident, don't start *****ing and moaning that you did nothing wrong.

    And don't come on here and suggest that it's okay to smoke (or drink or take cold medicine, or whatever). But you can't be 100% certain it's not.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  82. #82
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Actually, as far as I'm aware you can still be arrested for a DUI (Driving Under the Influence).
    Right, If you are failing FST's etc - same with anything else.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Right, If you are failing FST's etc - same with anything else.
    Define "failing FST's." I'd venture to say the grading scale is subjective...
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  84. #84
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,491
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Define "failing FST's." I'd venture to say the grading scale is subjective...
    Yes, agreed, VERY subjective and tough to get a conviction on.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Yes, agreed, VERY subjective and tough to get a conviction on.
    But I assume you have no problem with somebody being arrested for a DUI if they have some kind of impairment in their system?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  86. #86
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Yet you feel that CBS, NBC, ABC and the Communist News Network don't fill your head with propaganda either?

    Rose colored glasses for you, I guess?
    That is a perfect strawman fallacy. People should refer to it when they are trying to decide what NOT to do in a debate.

    I never made an assertion at all about any network other than the one that was presented in the original link. I certainly said nothing about them fitting this "bill" or that "bill". I never said anything about "Communism". I never made an assertion as to how I "feel" about any of them.

    It is not my rose colored glasses you think I am looking through, but yours.



    That was quite some spin you threw on the story, posting everything as 'fact' when you witnessed nothing.
    And that is quite an unsubstantiated assertion you are making about what I may or may not have been "spinning" into fact. If you would like to actually support your assertion with anything substantiative, I would be able to have a retort, but I can't... since you didn't. What specifically have I "spun" into fact? I suggest you read up on the "facts" before you reply.



    I would say "nice job", but it wasn't a nice job at all.
    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  87. #87
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    But I assume you have no problem with somebody being arrested for a DUI if they have some kind of impairment in their system?
    ROFL.. "The system" IS IMPAIRED.

    People crash... they are not perfect. They fail to pay attention and crash and die in a fuel mixed torching flame of death and debris. We put two lanes right next to each other, put cars on them going in opposite directions at high rates of speed...

    PEOPLE are impaired.
    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  88. #88
    Saucy Size
    Reputation: Paul B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,482
    You know what? This isn't even AZ-relevant. Carry on as you wish, but we're moving it to the ReCycle bin.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

  89. #89
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I'm pretty sure that 99% of the responses to the OP oppose his initial claim that MJ is to blame, or at least feel the OP is making a very broad claim. It's the bozos who come on here and say that they are actually better drivers when they smoke that have sparked most of this debate.
    Fine. I can play it your way. I will make the argument that people can drive BETTER when they are stoned. I will go further to make the arguement that people can do MANY things better when they are stoned. I will continue to say that some things simply can't be accomplished UNLESS you are stoned.

    Is this true for everyone? Certainly not. Is it true for some? Most certainly. The problem you have is that you have never experienced it. Because you have not experienced it, it has never happened. Of course, that is ridiculous. "Impairment" is a state of mind. You don't define it for others; only for yourself.

    It isn't even a debate. It is raw fact. It doesn't matter if you agree or not.

    Here are a few facts for you that you will have a hard time with: Water is 10 times more toxic to the human body than marijuana. Water overdoses have killed 100% more people than marijuana overdoses have and that is due to the fact that no one has EVER overdosed from marijuana.

    So put that in your pipe and smoke it. The PC mentality is a failed mentality.
    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  90. #90
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    You know what? This isn't even AZ-relevant. Carry on as you wish, but we're moving it to the ReCycle bin.
    What a shame. Heck, I thought it was relevant to Arizona and every other satate in the union...

    But hey... to each his own I guess.
    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyStruthers
    ROFL.. "The system" IS IMPAIRED.

    People crash... they are not perfect. They fail to pay attention and crash and die in a fuel mixed torching flame of death and debris. We put two lanes right next to each other, put cars on them going in opposite directions at high rates of speed...

    PEOPLE are impaired.
    So, let's throw all laws out the window then, problem solved?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  92. #92
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    So, let's throw all laws out the window then, problem solved?
    I'm sorry, but repetitive strawmen don't make any of them right. Throw out all the laws? Who has sugested that? I certainly didn't? I am pretty sure that NO ONE did.

    Really.. I suggest you refrain from mischaracterizing what others have said by making up what you have wanted them to say, and then knocking it all down. You are arguing with real estate built from cards... knocking down your own houses made of cards. On the other hand, you are NOT knocking down anything I have stated.
    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,206
    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyStruthers
    I'm sorry, but repetitive strawmen don't make any of them right. Throw out all the laws? Who has sugested that? I certainly didn't? I am pretty sure that NO ONE did.

    Really.. I suggest you refrain from mischaracterizing what others have said by making up what you have wanted them to say, and then knocking it all down. You are arguing with real estate built from cards... knocking down your own houses made of cards. On the other hand, you are NOT knocking down anything I have stated.
    So, to paraphrase, your answer to my question is "No"?

    What exactly have you stated other than people get in accidents, stoned or sober? Good point. You win.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,321
    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyStruthers
    Sure it impairs, but certainly not on the same level for everyone. And MOST certainly not on the level of alcohol.



    Cigarettes get you high. If I smoked a cig right now, I would be WAY dizzy AND screwed up... sweating and mouth watering. Sick. Driving? Pffft... not for 10 minutes at least. I might even puke if I smoked a cig. Probably would if I smoked an entire one.

    "High" is meaningless. It is different for everyone and depends on myriad factors.



    You are just of the PC mentality; biased.

    But cigarettes, in general, do not impair driving (unless you put it out in your eyeball or something).

    If cigarettes got you the same kind of "high" as pot, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. You'd be "stoned" off of cigarettes......

    While pot will give a different "high" to everyone (that's pharmacology 101....every drug works like that), alchohol also affects people differently. However, we have a mechanism in place to determine what is legally impaired in terms of alchohol. I'm sure with enough research, we can do the same for pot. So, why are you so afraid of that?

    What is this PC mentality you talk of? What have is said, specifically, that fits into this category. Is this a knee jerk response?

    Remember, I'm for the legalization of pot. I just see some who are "pro-pot" who are actually making it harder for that to ever happen. e.g."Hey, we drive BETTER high!" That'll go over well with the public....

  95. #95
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    You win.
    Yeah, I most certainly do win.

    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,321
    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyStruthers
    Here are a few facts for you that you will have a hard time with: Water is 10 times more toxic to the human body than marijuana. Water overdoses have killed 100% more people than marijuana overdoses have and that is due to the fact that no one has EVER overdosed from marijuana.

    So put that in your pipe and smoke it. The PC mentality is a failed mentality.

    Wait a second. You're dealing with fairly intelligent people here. You're going to have to define a couple of things.

    First. "Water is 10 times more toxic to the human body than marijuana" OK. Yes, you can die from water intoxication by driking too much water. Remember the Wee for a Wii constest? It causes an electrolyte imbalance in your cells (specifically sodium), and you end up with a big ole swelled brain.

    Now, is this 10x factoid based on mass, concetration, what? Since water is always in your body, it's obviously not toxic under those conditions. You can at least cite where you found this data so your fellow citizens can look it up and see if it was a reputable study.

    "Water overdoses have killed 100% more people than marijuana overdoses have and that is due to the fact that no one has EVER overdosed from marijuana. "

    Well 100% more than 0 is still 0. Since we know that water HAS killed by intoxication, there's something wrong with the math.

    This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. People trying to throw our scientific-sounding "facts" without the actual data to back it up.....it sounds like things stoners tell other stoners when they're stoned.

    Besides, what does an overdose have to do with anything? Who brought up an overdose? I thought we were talking about driving.

  97. #97
    velocipede technician
    Reputation: hollister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,853
    Quote Originally Posted by The Prodigal Son
    As a former police officer
    I though you were a former corrections officer before you lost your job, not a cop?
    looking for 20-21" P team

  98. #98
    Newt Guy
    Reputation: FrostyStruthers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    833
    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem
    But cigarettes, in general, do not impair driving (unless you put it out in your eyeball or something).
    You give a non smoker a cig and have him puff away until he is green... when he is puking and spinning, put him behind the wheel. I would not be able to drive. The point is that it is relative. Give a Camel straight wide to a smoker that smokes, and he will be fine. Give it to a fresh cherub 21 year old that has never smoked, and he will not be fine at all.

    If cigarettes got you the same kind of "high" as pot, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. You'd be "stoned" off of cigarettes......
    And they don't give that kind of high. The high is potentially MUCH worse and MUCH more impairing. Again, it is relative.

    While pot will give a different "high" to everyone (that's pharmacology 101....every drug works like that), alcohol also affects people differently. However, we have a mechanism in place to determine what is legally impaired in terms of alcohol. I'm sure with enough research, we can do the same for pot. So, why are you so afraid of that?
    I totally disagree. Alcohol is 1000 times more toxic than marijuana. In fact, marijuana is one of the LEAST toxic substances you can put in your body. Alcohol is a killer of man. It is a poison. It will kill every man no matter what that man is made of if you put enough in that man to over-saturate the blood to a given percentage that it will no longer carry oxygen to the organs and the brain. The toxicity level of alcohol is a known entity even without the pharmacology. Marijuana is a totally different animal. It is NOT toxic to man... at all. You can not overdose on THC. It is a medical impossibility. The research has been done. There is no place to put it. The FDA can't regulate it due to fact that marijuana's toxicity level is outside of FDA requirement.... nominal. They can't legally regulate it.

    And of course I am not "afraid" of anything. Quite the contrary. It is you that is afraid of what you have little to no knowledge about. And of course, that takes us to your next question.

    What is this PC mentality you talk of? What have is said, specifically, that fits into this category. Is this a knee jerk response?
    If you have not seen the PC mentality in regards to marijuana, then you are just a part of it. That is all that really needs to be offered there.

    The entire original article was of the PC mentality. The guy was tested for drugs and it was found that he had "trace" amounts of THC in his blood. This is per the Italian News Agency. It took the PC mentality to say that he was just stoned on marijuana and that is that. Not so much as a mention that he is a habitual offender and his licence has been suspended for reckless driving for almost a year. Little is mentioned about the horrible road. Nothing about the riders not being single file. Just that "marijuana killed all them riders!!! maybe 7 ir 8... we don't even know.. but we know that the driver was high and stoned on the loco weed!!!! Damn stoners gone and kilt them lycrans."

    GIve me a break.



    Remember, I'm for the legalization of pot. I just see some who are "pro-pot" who are actually making it harder for that to ever happen. e.g."Hey, we drive BETTER high!" That'll go over well with the public....
    See? You aren't even being honest about it in the first place. You have ulterior motives. You should have just stated that from the beginning. It would have saved a lot of time. I don't give a crap what the "public" happens to think about. I am not concerned with the PC mentality. I'll leave that to you.

    Yes, steel is most certainly stronger than aluminum EVERY time.
    ~Frosty Struthers

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation: blue109's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    531
    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyStruthers

    I suggest you put down the sheet of blotter. The half-life on that crap is what will screw you up.

    you are not the boss of me officer frosty!!!

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,321
    Quote Originally Posted by FrostyStruthers
    You give a non smoker a cig and have him puff away until he is green... when he is puking and spinning, put him behind the wheel. I would not be able to drive. The point is that it is relative. Give a Camel straight wide to a smoker that smokes, and he will be fine. Give it to a fresh cherub 21 year old that has never smoked, and he will not be fine at all.



    And they don't give that kind of high. The high is potentially MUCH worse and MUCH more impairing. Again, it is relative.



    I totally disagree. Alcohol is 1000 times more toxic than marijuana. In fact, marijuana is one of the LEAST toxic substances you can put in your body. Alcohol is a killer of man. It is a poison. It will kill every man no matter what that man is made of if you put enough in that man to over-saturate the blood to a given percentage that it will no longer carry oxygen to the organs and the brain. The toxicity level of alcohol is a known entity even without the pharmacology. Marijuana is a totally different animal. It is NOT toxic to man... at all. You can not overdose on THC. It is a medical impossibility. The research has been done. There is no place to put it. The FDA can't regulate it due to fact that marijuana's toxicity level is outside of FDA requirement.... nominal. They can't legally regulate it.

    And of course I am not "afraid" of anything. Quite the contrary. It is you that is afraid of what you have little to no knowledge about. And of course, that takes us to your next question.



    If you have not seen the PC mentality in regards to marijuana, then you are just a part of it. That is all that really needs to be offered there.

    The entire original article was of the PC mentality. The guy was tested for drugs and it was found that he had "trace" amounts of THC in his blood. This is per the Italian News Agency. It took the PC mentality to say that he was just stoned on marijuana and that is that. Not so much as a mention that he is a habitual offender and his licence has been suspended for reckless driving for almost a year. Little is mentioned about the horrible road. Nothing about the riders not being single file. Just that "marijuana killed all them riders!!! maybe 7 ir 8... we don't even know.. but we know that the driver was high and stoned on the loco weed!!!! Damn stoners gone and kilt them lycrans."

    GIve me a break.





    See? You aren't even being honest about it in the first place. You have ulterior motives. You should have just stated that from the beginning. It would have saved a lot of time. I don't give a crap what the "public" happens to think about. I am not concerned with the PC mentality. I'll leave that to you.


    What? I have ulterior motives? WTF.......I try to have a serious discussion and you give me some crap about some PC stuff that I have nothing to do with.

    Listen, if you don't care what the public thinks, then you're going to have a harder time getting it legalized. Smart people see this......

    "You should have just stated that from the beginning." Why? Because you determined who I was based on what you THOUGHT my views were on pot. You thought you were dealing with an anti-pot guy, right? Whooops........

    BTW, I've stated it on every pot thread we've had.....I thought most people knew the players by now. Of course the funny thing is, 60% of the people who were arguing about the impairment of pot were also not anti-pot.......

    Sorry you got pulled over today........ http://www.azcentral.com/community/m...eats-abrk.html

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •