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  1. #1
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    Haro Bikes Bringing 650B-Equipped All-Mountain Bikes to On Dirt Demo

    Have you heard the buzz about the “new” 650B mountain bike wheel size? Attending Interbike’s On Dirt Demo in Bootleg Canyon? If you answered ‘yes’ to either of those questions, stop by On Dirt Demo booth # 1002 where Haro Bikes will have a small fleet of Werx Xeon all-mountain bikes equipped with 650B-sized wheels available to demo.

    Measuring 27.5” in diameter, 650B wheels are exactly halfway between a 26” wheel and a 29” wheel. The benefits of a 650B wheel are similar to that of a 29” wheel: greater stability, improved cornering and climbing, and superior obstacle clearance as compared to a traditional 26” wheel. The icing on the cake is a frame designed for a 26” wheel mountain bike can be used with 650B wheels with very few modifications, preserving the integrity of 26” wheel frame geometry.

    Does this mean that Haro is considering abandoning the 29” wheel platform in favor if 650B? “Absolutely not,” says Jill Hamilton, Haro’s MTB/Adult Bike Brand Manager. “29-inch wheels and 26-inch wheels each have their own unique sets of strengths and weaknesses. Having both sizes on the market gives riders a choice. We see 650B wheels as not only being another option for riders, but we also see the need for a “tweener” size between the two”.

    In effort to gather real-world feedback and direction for a future line of 650B bikes, Haro will have 2 sets of Velocity “Blunt” 650B wheels mounted with Pacenti “Neo-Moto” tires for On Dirt Demo attendees to try aboard Werx Xeon all-mountain bikes. Interbike’s On Dirt Demo runs September 24-25 from 9am to 5pm.
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    Last edited by gregg; 09-19-2007 at 05:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Shop *****
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    Hey jill, do you guys plan on doing a demo-tour of the Haro's? I would be killin' to try out some of the new VLS bikes, but I'm in Virginia. Quite a long walk from California
    Quote Originally Posted by <sL4yEr>RuLz
    All good suggestions. What kind of "ass-orderant" would you recommend?

  3. #3
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    We'll be doing a demo tour in 2008, but it will focus on key fat tire festivals and larger events like Sea Otter, Pedro's, Fruita, Crested Butte, etc.

    We've got demo bikes that we can send to dealers. Have your local Haro dealer contact us about our Demo in a Box program.

  4. #4
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    very cool!

  5. #5
    Not an O2 thief.
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    Quote Originally Posted by downhilljill
    Have your local Haro dealer contact us about our Demo in a Box program.
    Will it be like this?

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=BKOiBZpUKW8
    Roll over the weak and bunny hop the dead!

    Blog this...!

    El Paso Puzzler 35 or 50 miler

  6. #6
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    LOL...even though it was the "clean" version, I still laughed by ass off! I love that SNL skit. Thanks for the laugh...It's been several months since I've seen that video!

  7. #7
    willtsmith_nwi
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    Yes, that's all the bicycle industry needs. A stagnant market teamed up with the introduction of yet another standard. I fear that every 650B tire will be made at the expense of a 29er model. Same thing for forks.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    Yes, that's all the bicycle industry needs. A stagnant market teamed up with the introduction of yet another standard. I fear that every 650B tire will be made at the expense of a 29er model. Same thing for forks.
    Only if the people come to prefer the 650b platform.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    Yes, that's all the bicycle industry needs. A stagnant market teamed up with the introduction of yet another standard. I fear that every 650B tire will be made at the expense of a 29er model. Same thing for forks.
    Depends on how you look at it. For us, it's not a standard. It's another option that might suit some rider's tastes.

  10. #10
    viva la v-brakes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    Yes, that's all the bicycle industry needs. A stagnant market teamed up with the introduction of yet another standard. I fear that every 650B tire will be made at the expense of a 29er model. Same thing for forks.
    Not necessarily. I'm not too interested in 29" due to the extra rotating weight, and cause my legs are really short. But I would go for 650B in a heartbeat.
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  11. #11
    willtsmith_nwi
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473
    Not necessarily. I'm not too interested in 29" due to the extra rotating weight, and cause my legs are really short. But I would go for 650B in a heartbeat.
    The "extra rotating weight" in a 29er is virtually insignificant compared to the entire weight of bike+rider. I can spin a HEAVY 29er (seriously, XT/Rhynolites with 14G straight spokes and 2.3" tire) wheel up to 7mph with a single flick of my little pinky finger. The thing doesn't stand a chance against the large muscles in the torso area.

    There is often a "sluggishness" assigned to 29ers. It's not the wheel weight. It's the change in effective gearing due to the larger wheel. You're effectively loosing to cogs off the low side. This IS a problem with 29ers in that production models are typically shipping with 22-32-44 cranks as opposed to pushing for a smaller standard crank.

    As far as short legs goes ... thats not a hinderance. A person with a short torso ... that would be a bigger problem as 29ers tend to ship with longer relatively longer top tubes.

    Why would 650B help you? There is also "extra rotating weight" in such a wheel (though proportionally just as insignificant as that of a 29er). Though odds are you'd only be loosing one low gear instead of two.

  12. #12
    Goin' Down ain't bad!!!
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    Well I'm not trying to start the 29er vs. 26er argument here.....suffice it to say, I rode a niner for a season and went back to my 26er HT. I didn't dig the sluggish steering up front, and sorry, but on a long sustained climb the larger wheel (or reciprocating weight) wears on ya. Yeah, maybe new gearing standards for 29ers would help or maybe a 96er is the way to go, don't know.

    But as to a 650B I get the feeling it is a continued search for a nirvana that may not exist. Yeah you get some of the benefits of a niner with the feel of a 26er but I tend to agree that unless you can really show some benefit over a standard 26er, why bother? To sell more bikes maybe?
    Dug-da-Goat

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  13. #13
    viva la v-brakes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    The "extra rotating weight" in a 29er is virtually insignificant compared to the entire weight of bike+rider.
    For me really the biggest thing is the standover height. I got a custom bike 2 years back and I told them I might be interested in a 29"er. They sent me back a design they had done for someone of similar proportions and it was ridiculous, the TT was almost parallel to the DT. Basically they told me that at my size a 29er would have no advantage over a 26er. Hell, I can't stand over most 26" bikes that have the correct TT length for me (which is one of the reasons I went custom), what hope would I have on a 29"er?

    Sure, I think 29" wheels are great for many people, esp. out west with long uphills and downhills, rough terrain and trails with more gentle corners and so forth. However here in the midwest all of my favorite trails are extremely tight and twisty and my riding style reflects that. 29" tires are not going to do me well here.

    Third thing, there are few DH and freeride type rider who are embracing the 29"er thing. I assume this is mostly due to wheel strength and perhaps acceleration issues. 650B wheels might be able to give some of the big wheel advantages without sacrificing the small wheel strengths.

    I think this is a smart move for Haro, and hopefully for other manufacturers. While I agree it would be a PIA to have three MTB wheel size standands, perhaps 650b could be come 'the one'.
    Last edited by FishMan473; 10-06-2007 at 06:40 PM.
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  14. #14
    mnt bike laws of physics
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    I agree with Jill, it's not about a new standard, it's about choice. So don't be afeared you will loose your precious wheel size.
    There shouldn't be an argument about which size is better as every size has a proper place for its particular application. If you like 29" then go with that. You're better off riding your damn bike that deciding what is best for the rest of us. I'm 6'4" and I love my 26" wheels. I'm not about to go to a big flexy, slower accelerating wheel (and it DOES accelerate slower, take a physics class, larger moment of inertia - i.e. larger resistance to change(read accalerate)) when fast acceleration is part of what makes biking so much fun for me.
    With that said though, I would definitely give the inbetween wheel size a try as you can make a full suspension bike with geometry that makes sense and a standover that is reasonable all in a bike that is still aesthetically pleasing - especially for the taller folks.
    As far as FishMan's comment, I have wondered what the downhill bikes of the future will be drawn to. I have seen DH bikes with 24" rear wheels because of their strength and stiffness. If you see a pro guy shreading the compitition on a 29" wheeled machine, let me know.

  15. #15
    willtsmith_nwi
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    I'm not about to go to a big flexy, slower accelerating wheel (and it DOES accelerate slower, take a physics class, larger moment of inertia - i.e. larger resistance to change(read accalerate)) when fast acceleration is part of what makes biking so much fun for me.
    Yes, and no two 10# dumbells in any given gym weigh the same. Both of our statements are true, but they are both misleading. A little knowledge can be a deceptive thing.

    I would definitely give the inbetween wheel size a try as you can make a full suspension bike with geometry that makes sense and a standover that is reasonable all in a bike that is still aesthetically pleasing
    Yes, but under your theory, won't that make your wheels heavier? You wouldn't want to be accelerating slower now ... would you?
    Last edited by willtsmith_nwi; 10-07-2007 at 02:04 PM.

  16. #16
    mnt bike laws of physics
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    Yes, and no two 10# dumbells in any given gym weigh the same. Both of our statements are true, but they are both misleading. A little knowledge can be a deceptive thing.




    Yes, but under your theory, won't that make your wheels heavier? You wouldn't want to be accelerating slower now ... would you?
    What I am saying is that I would be willing to try a larger wheel size if the bike was not butt ugly because the wheels are soo big they take over the frame, the top tube has to slope down like a girly bike so you can mount it, and the geometry is rediculous.
    IMO 29" wheels are made for non rear suspension bikes, rigids, SS. The whole point of the 27point5(650B) is that it is realistic to design a full suspension bike around a bigger wheel, whereas the 29" wheel size does not make sense in that application. Mant people would agree with me on this and many, I am sure, do not. None of us are wrong. But, people like me can now have an option, whereas before there was none.
    As far as wanting a bike that accelerates fast. There needs to be a middle ground. You can only have a wheel size be so small before it looses its ability to roll over obstacles. And definitely, that is where the 29" wheel size shines. And, you can go so big before you loose strength and acceleration, light weight and the ability to fit the wheel in the bike in a way that is practicle. Only experience will tell each individual what may be optimal for their type of riding/bike.

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