Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 46
  1. #1
    Sun Worshiper
    Reputation: oreophilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,368

    Boeing carbon-composite 787 Dreamliner 'could be unsafe'

    [SIZE="4"]Boeing carbon-composite 787 Dreamliner 'could be unsafe' [/SIZE]



    That's why I don't want a carbon fiber frame. Don't like the thought of it igniting, and the poisonous gases it would emit after a crash. Steel bikes all the way.

    BOEING'S new carbon-composite 787 Dreamliner plane may turn out to be unsafe and could lead to more deaths in crashes, according to a report by veteran journalist Dan Rather to be broadcast in the US today.

    The new plane, which is mostly made from brittle carbon compounds rather than flexible aluminum, is more likely to shatter on impact and may emit poisonous chemicals when ignited, Rather will report based on interviews with a former Boeing engineer and various industry experts, according to a transcript of the show.

    "The problem is all the unknowns that are being introduced and then explained away as if there is no problem,'' said Vince Weldon, a former Boeing engineer, in an interview to be broadcast as part of Rather's report.

    Mr Weldon compares a recent crash in a standard aluminum plane where the dented but intact fuselage kept fire at bay and allowed the passengers to leave the plane alive.

    "With a composite airframe, the fuselage would not crumple, it would shatter ... that shattered hole would be there for the fire that's going into the airplane,'' Mr Weldon says in the interview.

    "Instead of everyone getting out, it would be a far less positive result.''

    Mr Weldon says he was fired by Boeing after a 46-year career because of his persistent complaints about the design of the 787.

    He claims he represents the view of others at Boeing who were afraid to speak out.

    Boeing, which did not provide officials for on-camera interviews in Rather's report, said today that Weldon's claims were not valid and the plane would not fly if it was not safe.

    "We've looked at Mr Weldon's claims. We've had technical committees review them. We do an exceptional amount of testing,'' said Lori Gunter, a spokeswoman for Boeing's commercial plane unit.

    "Absolutely, these materials are safe. They are tested, they will be certified.''

    She said the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) must find the 787 to be as crashworthy as aluminum planes, and the plane was doing well in those tests so far. She declined to comment on the circumstances of Mr Weldon's departure from Boeing.

    Boeing's lightweight, fuel-efficient 787, which has become its most successful plane launch ever, is set for its first test flight between mid-November and mid-December after a three month delay due to a shortage of bolts and problems programming the flight control software.

    The first 787 is due to be delivered to Japan's All Nippon Airways in May next year, meaning it will have at most six months of flight tests, much shorter than previous jetliner programs.

    Boeing's rival Airbus, owned by European aerospace company EADS, is also working on a composite fuselage for its new A350 jet, but it is some years behind Boeing in the design and production process.

    In Rather's report, Mr Weldon and other experts also argue that the carbon-composite fuselage would not survive a lightning strike as well as aluminum, would emit toxic fumes when burning, and could easily be damaged without any visible sign.

    Mr Weldon says Boeing is misrepresenting to airlines the ease of maintenance on carbon fuselage planes.

    The report cites experts referring to Airbus planes that had carbon parts with problems that were not easily visible.

    Rather's report also includes aviation experts who see little or no problem with the 787.

    "I'm excited to ride on the 787. I'm excited to fly in composite aircraft,'' says Joseph Rakow, an engineer at consulting company Exponent, in an interview in the report.

    Todd Wissing, a commercial pilot, says he would fly the 787 as long as the composite materials are rigorously tested.

    "We put safety as our top priority,'' says Mr Wissing in the report.

    "We use the 21st century inspection methods with these new materials. Then we have complete confidence that we can get in that airplane with our passengers and go fly because that's what we can do.''

    Boeing 787 Dreamliner 'could be unsafe'


    Last edited by oreophilus; 09-26-2007 at 10:38 AM.
    .

  2. #2
    Who are the brain police?
    Reputation: Locoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    10,019
    Quote Originally Posted by oreophilus
    That's why I don't want a carbon fiber frame. Don't like the thought of it igniting, and the poisonous gases it would emit after a crash. Steel bikes all the way.[/COLOR][/B]
    Yeah, I would so rather inhale burning aluminum rather than burning carbon.
    The Who - Glittering Girl
    Ween - The Grobe
    Yellowman - Strong Me Strong
    all your base are belong to us

  3. #3
    the cool nerd
    Reputation: sportsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,643
    Are they being marketed to Air-Iran at a US-subsidized basement-bargain price?
    "The search for a perfect pint should take lifetime." M.Jackson

    Ride bikes, not goats. Just good advice

  4. #4
    Sun Worshiper
    Reputation: oreophilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,368
    Quote Originally Posted by sportsman
    Are they being marketed to Air-Iran at a US-subsidized basement-bargain price?
    A LUXURY liner to start the depression years. Well, it worked for Duesenberg. Opulently obscene just like the lead in to 1929.

    The Dreamliner is a real Duzy.

    found some potential passengers:
    Last edited by oreophilus; 09-25-2007 at 12:23 PM.
    .

  5. #5
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    20,155
    Quote Originally Posted by oreophilus
    The new plane, which is mostly made from brittle carbon compounds rather than flexible aluminum
    This right here demonstrates a general lack of knowledge about materials and aircraft struture. I doubt DR would sign his name off on the BS in this particular article (maybe not what he's going to report). I have to say, if you don't understand what you're posting oreo, then distain. The gist of what you posted is idiodic at best.

    So composites don't flex, but metals do?

    The wierd thing is that the planes I fly have composite parts and metal parts. I'm screwed.

    In the end, it doesn't matter what boeing thinks or does/doesn't do, it comes down to the FAA certifying the aircraft, and that will be based on testing and performance that is overseen by the FAA.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  6. #6
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    20,155
    Quote Originally Posted by oreophilus
    A LUXURY liner to start the depression years. Well, it worked for Duesenberg. Opulently obscene just like the lead in to 1929.

    The Dreamliner is a real Duzy.
    Hey moron, the dreamliner is not supposed to be luxury, it's supposed to set new standards for economy.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  7. #7
    Crunchatize me Capn'
    Reputation: jabpn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    2,892
    Hey Oreo, your double stuffed full of it on this one. I know from first hand knowledge. This story is also hardly the full story or accurate, not by a long shot.

  8. #8
    Sun Worshiper
    Reputation: oreophilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,368
    Quote Originally Posted by jabpn
    Hey Oreo, your double stuffed full of it on this one. I know from first hand knowledge. This story is also hardly the full story or accurate, not by a long shot.

    When you hear a snap, crackle, pop on your next Dreamliner flight, it ain't gonna be the Rice Krispies®, so you better put your head between your knees and kiss you ass goodbye.
    .

  9. #9
    Sun Worshiper
    Reputation: oreophilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,368
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Hey moron, the dreamliner is not supposed to be luxury, it's supposed to set new standards for economy.
    Listen man, the Boeing 787 is 10 more than the Boeing 777, 20 more than the Boeing 767, 30 more than the Boeing 757, and 40 more than the Boeing 747. It's has a much bigger number. And there can be only 27 more upgrades before the whole Boeing 7X7 numbering scheme has to be scrapped, if they use letters, which they seem to have already shown an inclination to do.

    It's only cheap because most of it was build out of the USA. Boeing, keeping jobs away from America.





    LOOKS REAL BUDGET.

    Last edited by oreophilus; 09-25-2007 at 06:54 PM.
    .

  10. #10
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    20,155
    Quote Originally Posted by oreophilus
    Listen man, the Boeing 787 is 10 more than the Boeing 777, 20 more than the Boeing 767, 30 more than the Boeing 757, and 40 more than the Boeing 747. It's has a much bigger number.
    Ok...so?

    Your "picture" of "luxury" is not a 777 that will be configured for passenger travel.

    How many A380s do you think will have the same cabins as shown intially with the multiple bars and lounges? It's called advertisement, not reality.

    Are you this stupid normally or is this an exceptional day?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  11. #11
    DWF
    DWF is offline
    Non Dual Bliss
    Reputation: DWF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,241
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    ...Oreo...Are you this stupid normally or is this an exceptional day?
    I know the answer to that question.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  12. #12
    banned
    Reputation: Satan on a stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5,724
    Quote Originally Posted by oreophilus
    A LUXURY liner to start the depression years. Well, it worked for Duesenberg. Opulently obscene just like the lead in to 1929.

    The Dreamliner is a real Duzy.

    found some potential passengers:
    This is all true, Duesenberg was obscene, but oh so nice to look at, the depression killed the over the top car.

  13. #13
    Sun Worshiper
    Reputation: oreophilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,368
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Ok...so?

    Your "picture" of "luxury" is not a 777 that will be configured for passenger travel.

    How many A380s do you think will have the same cabins as shown intially with the multiple bars and lounges? It's called advertisement, not reality.

    Are you this stupid normally or is this an exceptional day?

    I knew my rendition of This is Spinal Tap would fly right over your head.

    .

  14. #14
    Sun Worshiper
    Reputation: oreophilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,368
    Quote Originally Posted by Satan on a stick
    This is all true, Duesenberg was obscene, but oh so nice to look at, the depression killed the over the top car.
    But it came with the excesses, like the present day CEO salaries, stock options and golden handshakes that brought about the collapse.

    Who will bring America the New New Deal? Or is compassion a lost emotion, replaced by greed.
    Last edited by oreophilus; 09-25-2007 at 07:29 PM.
    .

  15. #15
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    20,155
    Quote Originally Posted by oreophilus
    I knew my rendition of This is Spinal Tap would fly right over your head.
    Oh no, I got it. It's just that it's simply not funny or entertaining due to your original post and that you believe this kind of crap with no basis in reality or science.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  16. #16
    DWF
    DWF is offline
    Non Dual Bliss
    Reputation: DWF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,241
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Oh no, I got it. It's just that it's simply not funny or entertaining due to your original post and that you believe this kind of crap with no basis in reality or science.
    Yep, you tagged him right. Then he started backpedaling like his feet were on fire and his ass was catching and pulled out the old, "I was pulling a Spinal Tap." What Oreo needs is a double tap. That would do his mental capacity a world of good.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  17. #17
    Sun Worshiper
    Reputation: oreophilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,368
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Oh no, I got it. It's just that it's simply not funny or entertaining due to your original post and that you believe this kind of crap with no basis in reality or science.
    Carbon Fiber has never been known to suddenly break catastrophically.

    There are many MTBers who will not go near CF seatposts, CF handlebars, CF stems, CF cranks, CF frames, CF wheels...

    Many MTBers with carbon fiber experience who will not fly 787s.
    .

  18. #18
    Sun Worshiper
    Reputation: oreophilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,368
    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Yep, you tagged him right. Then he started backpedaling like his feet were on fire and his ass was catching and pulled out the old, "I was pulling a Spinal Tap." What Oreo needs is a double tap. That would do his mental capacity a world of good.
    You are always two steps behind, DimWitFlatulance

    The very same asshole who said once the fabric is cut, that's it.
    .

  19. #19
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    20,155
    Quote Originally Posted by oreophilus
    Carbon Fiber has never been known to suddenly break catastrophically.

    There are many MTBers who will not go near CF seatposts, CF handlebars, CF stems, CF cranks, CF frames, CF wheels...

    Many MTBers with carbon fiber experience who will not fly 787s.
    Ok moron, composite does NOT mean CF, CF is simply one possibility for composite construction. And aluminum alloys have never been known to break either . I'm not even going to get into CF because I know it's so far past your understanding.

    There are just as many idiots as there are people that "won't go near" CF. Better living due to polymers and composites. It doesn't mean they are the answer to everything, but they work for many things and have lots of benefits. Don't other morons always say that aluminum alloys are "brittle" compared to steel? So we should build planes out of steel? Seriously, you simply have no clue here oreo, and you're just posting out of your a$$. Don't even try to save this, you screwed yourself from the beginning and everything you do just digs you deeper.

    You really don't realize how many aircraft have composite structures these days do you? There are thousands of glassairs, lancairs, cirrus, and others to prove that they can work just fine.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  20. #20
    Crunchatize me Capn'
    Reputation: jabpn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    2,892
    Quote Originally Posted by oreophilus
    When you hear a snap, crackle, pop on your next Dreamliner flight, it ain't gonna be the Rice Krispies®, so you better put your head between your knees and kiss you ass goodbye.
    Sure Oreo, sure. Don't be silly enough to try to counter someone who has a direct connection with Boeing.

  21. #21
    DWF
    DWF is offline
    Non Dual Bliss
    Reputation: DWF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    6,241
    Quote Originally Posted by oreophilus
    You are always two steps behind, DimWitFlatulance

    The very same asshole who said once the fabric is cut, that's it.
    Yes, a carbon fiber handlebar that is .040" thick is exactly the same as a composite airframe. That's your problem Gloryhole, you can never see anything between two extremes. It kills me that you're such a moran.
    A man must have enemies and places he is not welcome. In the end we are not only defined by our friends but those against us.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ICanDigIt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    582
    Quote Originally Posted by jabpn
    Sure Oreo, sure. Don't be silly enough to try to counter someone who has a direct connection with Boeing.
    I have a direct connection with Boeing...I've flown on their planes a few times.
    [SIZE=5]
    Shot through the heart
    And you're to blame
    You give love a bad name...
    [/SIZE]

  23. #23
    Sun Worshiper
    Reputation: oreophilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,368
    Quote Originally Posted by DWF
    Yes, a carbon fiber handlebar that is .040" thick is exactly the same as a composite airframe. That's your problem Gloryhole, you can never see anything between two extremes. It kills me that you're such a moran.
    Dim Wit Flatulence

    Failure is not an option in the air.

    The 787 is built with too much of the stuff. A former Boeing Engineer says so. What do I care if an idiot pilot and a tinker disagrees.
    .

  24. #24
    Sun Worshiper
    Reputation: oreophilus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    7,368
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Ok moron, composite does NOT mean CF, CF is simply one possibility for composite construction. And aluminum alloys have never been known to break either . I'm not even going to get into CF because I know it's so far past your understanding.

    There are just as many idiots as there are people that "won't go near" CF. Better living due to polymers and composites. It doesn't mean they are the answer to everything, but they work for many things and have lots of benefits. Don't other morons always say that aluminum alloys are "brittle" compared to steel? So we should build planes out of steel? Seriously, you simply have no clue here oreo, and you're just posting out of your a$$. Don't even try to save this, you screwed yourself from the beginning and everything you do just digs you deeper.

    You really don't realize how many aircraft have composite structures these days do you? There are thousands of glassairs, lancairs, cirrus, and others to prove that they can work just fine.
    Vince Weldon, a former Boeing engineer, says 787s aren't safe. I'll take his knowledge and experience over an idiot pilot's any day of the week.

    I've got an ideal MTB, steel frame, aluminium parts and no carbon fiber, very light, very durable, very performing. So WFT are you on about? I don't need no stinking Carbon Fiber. We are discussing the fact that the 787 was built too cheap and too light with too much CF (and plywood). Needs less fuel, but hazardous to travelers.
    .

  25. #25
    Crunchatize me Capn'
    Reputation: jabpn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    2,892
    Quote Originally Posted by oreophilus
    Vince Weldon, a former Boeing engineer, says 787s aren't safe. I'll take his knowledge and experience over an idiot pilot's any day of the week.
    A former engineer? Ummm.....oh let's just say there are engineers at Boeing and then there are engineers. Let's just also say there's was a very good reason for the firing okay. You should not take the word of a pilot or other over an engineer, per se. When the test reports get released you will understand how unfounded Mr. Weldon's claims are. Oreo, your post and subsequent opinion have no substance.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •