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  1. #1
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    Whats the Customer Service problem

    Tried to order some parts today for my bird and got the hand in the face from "Aaron".
    Ive been trying to get parts and find out Enduro bearing info for a few weeks now. Everyone there has been really helpful until today. Called in today to finally order the parts and I get "what bike shop are you with?"
    My $20 worth of small parts is now going to cost $40 and take 4 weeks to come in going through my CRAPPY local dealer

  2. #2
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    The_owl,

    Pivot exists because of our dealers, and our customers like you. We wouldn't be successful without both the support of our dealer, and fans like you of our product.

    We aren't here to sell product to compete with our dealers, nor to complicate the purchasing process. If we sold items they would be sold at MSRP, so your price at the dealer should be the same.

    Sorry for any confusion on this line.
    Daniel Limburg
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  3. #3
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    Whoever I spoke to on Monday was ready to sell me small parts. I just wasn't ready to buy. Politics aside, your dealer change here a few years back was one I can't support. Its frustrating to me to add more churn to a simple bolt and spacer purchase.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Whoever I spoke to on Monday was ready to sell me small parts. I just wasn't ready to buy. Politics aside, your dealer change here a few years back was one I can't support. Its frustrating to me to add more churn to a simple bolt and spacer purchase.
    Support my dealer then. Call up Cycle Progression. Alex is good kinfolk.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  5. #5
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    It says a lot about a company when they are willing to spend 5 minutes getting a customer out on the trail. Rather than seeing it as a hassle and shifting the burden off to someone else.
    Thats why I continually support companies like IBIS and Canfield. Disappointed to say the least.

  6. #6
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    First, I think Pivot has great and over and above customer service... they have always exceeded my expectations along those lines... but...

    in general this is an interesting topic... lots of bike and bike part companies (as well as a myriad of other companies and industries) roll this way... i think in dealing with the average consumer, it's a viable concept... it makes sense from sales (most folks don't want to drop $6K on something w/o seeing it) to dealing with service, warranties, etc.

    but, what about folks who like to do their own wrenching and don't want the incoviniece and delay of having to go through a dealer? what if you don't like that dealer? there the OP has a really good point. I think Pivot customers who are willing to spend that kind of $$$ on a bike are probably in general, more experienced and don't need a local dealer for everything... or maybe at all
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  7. #7
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    I'm lucky. I like my dealer. I am loath to spend money in a shop I don't like but will if need be. How about Competitive Cyclist? Didn't see them on their site, but they seem like a good bunch of guys.

  8. #8
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    To be fair I've dealt with Scott and they did the same thing even for warranty parts. I had to go through their dealers even though they could have shipped it to me directly. Its the price you pay for dealing with a higher end brand.

  9. #9
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    Higher end brand? I dont see how that works, but ok. Its enough of a bad experience to turn me off from buying another Pivot. Theres too many awesome bikes out there that bad experiences like this, as small as they may seem are enough to disenchant me. Especially adding the dealings with a bike shop I dont like.

    Oh and the price didnt double. but almost. It went from $8 to $15 and thats before my sure-to-be-gouged shipping bill.

    Ill ride my Pivot 'til it breaks, but I wont be back, and Ill always mention my experience when someone asks me how I like my pivot.


    Quote Originally Posted by CupOfJava View Post
    To be fair I've dealt with Scott and they did the same thing even for warranty parts. I had to go through their dealers even though they could have shipped it to me directly. Its the price you pay for dealing with a higher end brand.

  10. #10
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    Cmon' really.. gonna really post up a *****fest because Pivot didn't gift wrap you a $20 part because you are too cheap or almighty to deal w a lowly local bike shop... cmon'... Pivot is following the industry standard... and why are you wasting a great dude like Aaron's time with such trivial ********....

  11. #11
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    Pivot has a dealer network to take care of small things like this. If they had every Pivot owner calling in ordering small $10 parts all the time they would spend all their time on tirivial minutiae. Kind of like missing the forrest through the trees.

    If you don't like your local dealer click on their dealer locator and call a few that are close to you. I am sure one of them would have no problem ordering the parts and mailing them to you. One guy here even gave you the name of a shop and the guy there who could help.

    I have to agree with schneidw - seems like you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. And saying you would never ride a Pivot again after this...get the part and go ride out the anger bro. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

  12. #12
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    I too have had great luck with Pivot but will concede that Ibis and Canfield are tremendous. One thing I particularly like is Ibis responding right here on the Forums. Why more companies don't do it is beyond me. Seems like the easiest way around to do speedy CS and spread good will. I'm also concerned about a general deterioration in CS in the bike industry. Too many reps just don't seem to know their own products. But haven't noticed anything like that from Pivot and wouldn't say the above is the best example...
    All bike, all the time

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeIntelligencer View Post
    I too have had great luck with Pivot but will concede that Ibis and Canfield are tremendous. One thing I particularly like is Ibis responding right here on the Forums. Why more companies don't do it is beyond me. Seems like the easiest way around to do speedy CS and spread good will. I'm also concerned about a general deterioration in CS in the bike industry. Too many reps just don't seem to know their own products. But haven't noticed anything like that from Pivot and wouldn't say the above is the best example...
    Bike Intel- Dan from Pivot did respond right away here on MTBR with an courteous reply that explained that Pivot is not setup to take individual orders... That is what is amazing, that small niche Pivot just released the sickest MTB on the planet, a 27.5-inch Firebird... small company is kicking the @sses of the deep pocket big corporate companies and doing it w style while keeping its grassroots pedigree... they just joined forces here with a local brewery to support a local riding team... killer. I think Chris learned a lot of lesson from his last years at Titus and is now rounding Pivot into form for the long run... Aaron/Dan are an important part of that organic growth..
    back to the original OP.. hope you get it now.. if not, have fun riding the Giant/Trek knockoff...ski ya

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by schneidw View Post
    Cmon' really.. gonna really post up a *****fest because Pivot didn't gift wrap you a $20 part because you are too cheap or almighty to deal w a lowly local bike shop... cmon'... Pivot is following the industry standard... and why are you wasting a great dude like Aaron's time with such trivial ********....
    Really? Did you miss what I typed? First I called and talked to Ken who spent the time to actually take a bushing out and measure it to see if it was 21.85 mm or 22.2 mm. He spent 20 minutes explaining bushings, bearings and replacement.
    Next I spoke to someone who determined what frame bearings I needed, which bolts, and was ready to take my order. I wanted to follow up on Enduro options for my bearings or I would have ordered.
    You can sack ride schneidw, I understand. But one persons perception of Customer Service reflects on the whole company. Why even answer the phone? Just have a series of prompts and voicemail boxes.
    cmanser, my options for ordering parts from anywhere other that my one dealers requires double shipping or driving 100 miles.

    Sorry, I sweat the small stuff. Id actually be riding the anger out this weekend if Aaron had said " yea let me get you that bolt bro"

    EDIT: for those that dont understand. If youre going to have a company policy regarding phone orders, make sure everyone is adhering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Really? Did you miss what I typed? First I called and talked to Ken who spent the time to actually take a bushing out and measure it to see if it was 21.85 mm or 22.2 mm. He spent 20 minutes explaining bushings, bearings and replacement.
    Next I spoke to someone who determined what frame bearings I needed, which bolts, and was ready to take my order.
    I wanted to follow up on Enduro options for my bearings or I would have ordered.
    You can sack ride schneidw, I understand. But one persons perception of Customer Service reflects on the whole company. Why even answer the phone? Just have a series of prompts and voicemail boxes.
    cmanser, my options for ordering parts from anywhere other that my one dealers requires double shipping or driving 100 miles.

    Sorry, I sweat the small stuff. Id actually be riding the anger out this weekend if Aaron had said " yea let me get you that bolt bro"

    EDIT: for those that dont understand. If youre going to have a company policy regarding phone orders, make sure everyone is adhering.
    I find it interesting that you and others consider the time spent by someone clearly helping you out NOT customer service, inconsequential and their time valueless and then feeling entitled to receive a pro deal to save a few dollars on the correct hardware they spent the time to determine for you.
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  16. #16
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    I dont want a pro deal. And I never said I didnt consider that customer service. In fact I pointed out the opposite. Of how polarizing my experience was from my prior two calls

  17. #17
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    (Note I added signature above.)

    It sounds like you are whining and trashing a company's good name and reputation over a minor 1st World inconvenience and a few dollars....especially after they have spent tons of time and their resources trying to help you.

    Coming from experience, fasteners, hardware, small parts, etc have a much larger time and real 'overhead' than their nominal cost to the consumer.
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  18. #18
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    Yep Im whining. WTF else would this thread be about?
    Its churn. They still have to talk to someone on the phone, confirm what the parts are, then ship them to a store, which is more complicated than selling me the parts right there. The parts order from the bike shop took 4 phone calls.
    Ill repeat, since lynch mob forum users rarely read actual posts: If youre going to have a phone order policy, please have all your employees in compliance, not just some.

  19. #19
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    Pivot Dealers

    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Yep Im whining. WTF else would this thread be about?
    Its churn. They still have to talk to someone on the phone, confirm what the parts are, then ship them to a store, which is more complicated than selling me the parts right there. The parts order from the bike shop took 4 phone calls.
    Ill repeat, since lynch mob forum users rarely read actual posts: If youre going to have a phone order policy, please have all your employees in compliance, not just some.

    Despite the personal attack by Owl on Aaron, bad attitude towards Dan, and then juvenile name calling to me... I must say that Owl has raised a valid issue (in a harsh negative manner) with respect to Pivot in that my experiences with their select Pivot Dealers here in NM has been less than satisfying... I do plead that Pivot revisit their dealer strategy, at least here in NM if they institute a policy of no direct sales to customers.... I would prefer to see the dealers business philosophy more aligned with Pivot's which has not been my experience... with that stated, my online dealings with Pivot dealer has been stellar..

    PS. Owl bummer you won't be riding this weekend because of a bolt... maybe time to build up an inexpensive hardtail eh?

  20. #20
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    I didnt call anyone names. I dont have a bad attitude towards Dan. I simply didnt like his canned boilerplate response.

    I dont think my "manner" was harsh or negative. I didnt curse, call names or bash bike stores. My point is valid.

    I have other really nice bikes I can ride. that isnt the point, though.

  21. #21
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    whatever... based on the universal response to your posts, it appears you have no point, other than gripe.. time for me to move on... btw, sack rider isn't name calling eh? priceless

  22. #22
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    I've got to say I'm all for saving a buck or two. In fact I can credit myself with single handedly changing the customer service policies of several online retailers here. But there comes a point in life where companies (bike companies in particular) need to support their local retailer. Without them they have no lifeline to the customers. If you're worried about saving a buck or two why not look on ebay or find the parts you need somewhere else rather than going to the manufacturer directly? From my experience it's cheaper to go through bike shops than through the manufacturer because they are OBLIGATED to sell their stuff at retail price or higher in order not to undercut their dealers. Dealers on the other hand are allowed to cut discounts to their customers to help grow a healthy relationship....

  23. #23
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    This is too funny of a coincidence not to share. I went to a LBS to check out bikes and low and behold there was a Pivot trailer and a rep right there:

    Whats the Customer Service problem-img_0299.jpg

    He was very helpful showing me the Pivot options and discussing what options might work for me. The Firebird 27.5 is a sweet looking ride as are the Mach5.7, etc

    Whats the Customer Service problem-img_0300.jpg

    I mentioned this thread and your whining, Owl. He said they work really hard at customer relations and service. Your problem with them may be valid, your approach was not, IMO.

    Hopefully, the next little ripple in the road you encounter can be met with a little more tolerance and class. Save it for the big stuff that really matters....like not getting two limes in your margarita....now that's a crisis!
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  24. #24
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    Whats the Customer Service problem

    On the grand scheme of things paying twenty five bucks to a business you don't like is small potatoes. Just sell the $&?/! bike.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    The parts order from the bike shop took 4 phone calls.
    Why not make it 5? Call 'em up and cancel the order.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  26. #26
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    [
    He was very helpful showing me the Pivot options and discussing what options might work for me. The Firebird 27.5 is a sweet looking ride as are the Mach5.7, etc

    Where you able to test ride the 27.5 Firebird.. in concept, that is my dream bike.. can't wait to test ride one.. something that concerns me based on your picture (thanks for posting) is rear tire clearance.. I hope its perspective of the photo.. because clearance appears limited to none from the picture

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Yep Im whining. WTF else would this thread be about?
    Its churn. They still have to talk to someone on the phone, confirm what the parts are, then ship them to a store, which is more complicated than selling me the parts right there. The parts order from the bike shop took 4 phone calls.
    Ill repeat, since lynch mob forum users rarely read actual posts: If youre going to have a phone order policy, please have all your employees in compliance, not just some.
    So, last year I called Pivot about getting new bearings and, like you, they were ready to sell it to me but then asked me what dealer I represented. They then said they support their dealers, so parts need to go through them. I said cool, chatted some more with Aaron, called my LBS, ordered up the bearings along with extras for the future and had everything within a week. Two total calls, no hastle, smile on my face. What I DIDN'T do is throwa 1st world fit online, slam Pivot customer support, and then tell a bunch of strangers that I will never buy another Pivot because they wouldn't sell me some parts direct. Not a lynch mob, just a bunch of Internet strangers telling you to chill out and get some perspective.

    If you want to effect change for a small company, complaining about it online is not gonna help. If you felt mislead, then you should have called back and talked one of the leads at Pivot and offer up some constructive criticism. Throwing a fit online isn't gonna solve your issue and will most likely get you nothing more than critism from strangers.

  28. #28
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    Clearance is tight (I got a good look at Sea Otter) but Chris says even Dampfs will clear. They bowed the frame brace for extra room. But yeah, the proof will be in the pudding. At 6-1, the 650b category isn't for me, but have to admit a Firebird (I owed one for 4 years and want a carbon version) is a cool ride no matter what size wheels.
    All bike, all the time

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMW503 View Post
    So, last year I called Pivot about getting new bearings and, like you, they were ready to sell it to me but then asked me what dealer I represented. They then said they support their dealers, so parts need to go through them. I said cool, chatted some more with Aaron, called my LBS, ordered up the bearings along with extras for the future and had everything within a week. Two total calls, no hastle, smile on my face. What I DIDN'T do is throwa 1st world fit online, slam Pivot customer support, and then tell a bunch of strangers that I will never buy another Pivot because they wouldn't sell me some parts direct. Not a lynch mob, just a bunch of Internet strangers telling you to chill out and get some perspective.

    If you want to effect change for a small company, complaining about it online is not gonna help. If you felt mislead, then you should have called back and talked one of the leads at Pivot and offer up some constructive criticism. Throwing a fit online isn't gonna solve your issue and will most likely get you nothing more than critism from strangers.
    This isnt a fit at all. This is what forums are for. Not just for fanboys to post stoke pics and ask how many pumps of stans to use. Complaining about it online DOES help. You think I just got a PC and the internet last week? This is exactly the response I knew I would get from "the team". I was hoping Pivot would give a better response, for that Im disappointed. Especially after I posted that I didnt want to deal with their new dealer at all. Basically a tuff shit response by not replying.

  30. #30
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    Sure, forums are great places to surface issues and dissident voices. But, it's a bit narrow to simply dismiss people as fan boys just because they're pointing out that your particular complaint is overblown.

    Forums are places for discussion. You did not actually post a question on how Pivot might better serve customers by selling parts direct; that would have been a post in the spirit of forums. Instead, you posted what was read by many - not just me - as a rant over a trivial matter. If one chooses to just use a forum as a rant space, then one should expect that others may disagree just as strongly based on the their opinion of said rant, not because they are fan boys. I have critiques of Pivot like anyone else (e.g. IMO, The main pivot bearing is too small on the 5.7c.), but I don't sweat the little stuff online.

    In all honesty, this looks less like an issue with Pivot, but more like an issue with your LBS which is your only conduit to Pivot. I'm lucky in that there are two totally kick butt LBS's in my city that sell Pivots (btw, both sell Pivot parts at cost and shipping) so I'd imagine is pretty much blows to be stuck with a crap LBS that marks up the price. Posting about that BS LBS policy would be a rant I'd support. :^)

  31. #31
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    I see where you are coming from. It is annoying when you deal with two different people and end up with different results. I wouldn't say it's worth coming on here and complaining about it though because it's not gonna get you anywhere.



    In reference to the pics on the last page, did Josh convert his FB to 27.5?
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  32. #32
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    The Firebird 650 option has brought me to the Pivot forum for the first time and here I see this owl character complaining about my dear friends Aaron and Kenny... I will bring up the subject at beers this Thursday and see if they care to give an on-line response. FYI - these people love bikes, love their jobs, and are good folks. If you called last Friday - that was inventory day and they all had to start work at some ungodly hour. I'd probably be grumpy on the phone too.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by schneidw View Post
    [
    He was very helpful showing me the Pivot options and discussing what options might work for me. The Firebird 27.5 is a sweet looking ride as are the Mach5.7, etc

    Where you able to test ride the 27.5 Firebird.. in concept, that is my dream bike.. can't wait to test ride one.. something that concerns me based on your picture (thanks for posting) is rear tire clearance.. I hope its perspective of the photo.. because clearance appears limited to none from the picture
    He was actually cleaning bikes and packing up after demos from the previous day or two and I had little time to ride 'em anyway. Regarding clearance, my first impression was 'plenty'. The bike was a couple weeks old I believe and the rep (didn't catch his name) said he's been having a blast going off cliffs and large drops with no issues and he likes heavier shocks (see his coil shock).
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    Quote Originally Posted by StuLax18 View Post
    In reference to the pics on the last page, did Josh convert his FB to 27.5?
    It was a fairly new (and modified, w/added coil shock) 27.5 IIRC.
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  35. #35
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    durtgurl; The Aaron he's referring to is one of the sales guys, not Aaronious
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  36. #36
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    the_owl.

    Please call me 480-467-2920
    or email me daniel@pivotcycles.com

    It's clear we hit a cord with you that has upset you. I'm happy to resolve this.
    We aren't perfect and we know it. We try our best to sell happiness and hand out high fives left and right. Sorry one of those high fives didn't land in your direction this time.

    Like I said in my first response, we aren't here to compete with our dealer network, we are here to support them and in turn support you the consumer. We know there are flaws in this, as some dealers may not support us in the same light as others. We are doing our best, and for the most part, we nail it. This time, not so much, and for that I'm sorry.

    Best regards,
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  37. #37
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    I can't believe this whole bumfight is about $20. Talk about first world problems!
    Some people need to get a life.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugor View Post
    I can't believe this whole bumfight is about $20. Talk about first world problems!
    Some people need to get a life.
    It's not though. It's about a guy who called in one day, and understood that he could get the parts direct. Called back later only to find out that he had to go through a shop, and the closest one he is not a fan of. It's way more than just $20, and turned out to be rather complicated. I can see where the OP's frustration comes from, although I would never post up about it. Probably just order online if I really didn't want to go through a local shop.
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  39. #39
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    Yeh yeh yeh! Point is its a whole lot of carrying on over nothing. If you're so easily frustrated over small fry to the point of coming here and slandering then I would suggest the problem lies not with Pivot.
    I had to purchase my Firebird frame from a shop I didn't want to deal with. I took the frame to my preferred LBS and built it up with boutique components that were worth well over the price of the frame. This action told both shops where my trust and loyalties lie.

  40. #40
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    Nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    the_owl.

    Please call me 480-467-2920
    or email me daniel@pivotcycles.com

    It's clear we hit a cord with you that has upset you. I'm happy to resolve this.
    We aren't perfect and we know it. We try our best to sell happiness and hand out high fives left and right. Sorry one of those high fives didn't land in your direction this time.

    Like I said in my first response, we aren't here to compete with our dealer network, we are here to support them and in turn support you the consumer. We know there are flaws in this, as some dealers may not support us in the same light as others. We are doing our best, and for the most part, we nail it. This time, not so much, and for that I'm sorry.

    Best regards,
    Daniel Limburg
    So cool for Dan to take the high road... very cool! We have closure and spent enough time, electrons and energy dealing w $20 pissing match.. lets move on to Firebird 650b reviews

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    Maybe the bike shop does not want to deal with this guy because he treats everyone like a lesser human being. Maybe thats why it took 4 phone calls. Just sayin...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mack10 View Post
    Maybe the bike shop does not want to deal with this guy because he treats everyone like a lesser human being. Maybe thats why it took 4 phone calls. Just sayin...
    Lol. Logic isn't always logical. For some anyway. Just saying

    2 weeks today since I ordered from my awesome local pivot dealer. No one seems to know. yay team

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Lol. Logic isn't always logical. For some anyway. Just saying

    2 weeks today since I ordered from my awesome local pivot dealer. No one seems to know. yay team
    I sent you a PM, as well as the open post above asking you to contact us. I haven't received anything from you.

    Communication is a 2 way street. We are here to help.
    Daniel
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
    Jack Handy

  44. #44
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    Are you going to mail me my bolt? I'm not trying to get something free. I just want to ride my bike.this thread was up for three days before I broke down and ordered it the only way I could. And another week before you pm'd me.I can't see how contacting you is going to fix anything at this point. You very clearly said I need to go through my dealer. Which I did and has only made me more bitter since I knew this was going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    I sent you a PM, as well as the open post above asking you to contact us. I haven't received anything from you.

    Communication is a 2 way street. We are here to help.
    Daniel

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Lol. Logic isn't always logical. For some anyway. Just saying

    2 weeks today since I ordered from my awesome local pivot dealer. No one seems to know. yay team
    The threshold to become a 'dealer' is quite low when compared to other industries. The low end ranges from inept all the way to broke-assed charlatans. That's why I told you who to order from a ways back.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  46. #46
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    I can understand why a shop wouldn't make ordering me a bolt, for couple dollars profit, for a bike they didn't sell me a priority.

  47. #47
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    I just got off the phone with the Shop, and spoke with them about the bolt. They have it, so I'm not sure what the issue is. Give Doug a call.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Are you going to mail me my bolt? I'm not trying to get something free. I just want to ride my bike.this thread was up for three days before I broke down and ordered it the only way I could. And another week before you pm'd me.I can't see how contacting you is going to fix anything at this point. You very clearly said I need to go through my dealer. Which I did and has only made me more bitter since I knew this was going to happen.
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
    Jack Handy

  48. #48
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    I did explain why I didn't want to use this option. It theoretically doubles ship time and shipping costs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    The threshold to become a 'dealer' is quite low when compared to other industries. The low end ranges from inept all the way to broke-assed charlatans. That's why I told you who to order from a ways back.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMW503 View Post
    So, last year I called Pivot about getting new bearings and, like you, they were ready to sell it to me but then asked me what dealer I represented. They then said they support their dealers, so parts need to go through them. I said cool, chatted some more with Aaron, called my LBS, ordered up the bearings along with extras for the future and had everything within a week. Two total calls, no hastle, smile on my face. What I DIDN'T do is throwa 1st world fit online, slam Pivot customer support, and then tell a bunch of strangers that I will never buy another Pivot because they wouldn't sell me some parts direct. Not a lynch mob, just a bunch of Internet strangers telling you to chill out and get some perspective.

    If you want to effect change for a small company, complaining about it online is not gonna help. If you felt mislead, then you should have called back and talked one of the leads at Pivot and offer up some constructive criticism. Throwing a fit online isn't gonna solve your issue and will most likely get you nothing more than critism from strangers.
    Since you have some experience, how much did a complete set of bearings cost, how do you tell when they need replacing, how difficult is it to replace them, and are there any special tools required? I'm thinking mine might need to be done soon. If you want to PM me the info that's fine too. Thanks!
    Gotta get up to get down.
    LMB

  50. #50
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    Sometimes there are occasions to fire customers. For example, when customers become pain in the arses. This is becoming one of those times
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

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