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  1. #51
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    What are the differences under weave, 12k 3k UD ?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkhünd View Post
    Thanks for the info. Keep sending the beautiful picks as you dial it in! What's a good spoke count for the LB rims, 28 or 32 ?
    I can't see any reason not to run 32H rims. It's a standard configuration that's proven to work. Easily available parts and will work across my fleet if say the hubs get replaced on the original bike.

    The weight saved by running 4 less spokes is negligible, but being able to complete a ride with a broken spoke or two is nice.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  3. #53
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    Got my M6's suspension setup. Just the initial range which will get tweaked still.

    I'm 180lbs naked, 5'11" normal athletic build.

    160mm Pike

    - 65 psi ~25% sag
    - Rebound 10 clicks from full open
    - Compression Descend 4 clicks from full open
    - didn't add any tokens

    Float X

    - 190 psi ~ 25% sag
    - Rebound 9 clicks from full open
    - Compression Descend [most riding] & Trail 1 for fire road climbs

    Tires [2.2" Conti Trail King tubeless on 35mm rims]

    - front 20 psi
    - rear 22 psi

    We ride techy steep trails in the forest so speeds stay on the lower side of things with lots of rough spots and turns to deal with. It's rare to have a really wide open descent where you can pin it.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  4. #54
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    Check out the new NOX Composites website too. I have them on both my bikes now after **BOTH** my Enve's failed on my Tallboy in (8) months time. Since I wasn't the original owner, somehow that means the wheels suck as soon as the 2nd owner gets them according to Enve. The NOX wheelsets were over $1000 less than comparable Enve's. My buddy built up his own LB wheels for $300 less than my NOX wheels and he is very happy with them. He did save $300 but built the wheels himself and doesn't have the warranty that NOX (and American company by the way) provides!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocmedic View Post
    Also how do you like those 35mm wide LB hoops? I am so torn between building a set of these or just getting ENVE's and sadly my biggest reason for wanting ENVE's is because I think they look cool. Are the LB's just as good?

  5. #55
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    I got LB rims and built them as wheels. LB also sells complete wheels. You get warranties with both.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  6. #56
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    I went a bit nutty on the frame protection and decals. You could just hop on the bike and ride it as is without having any issues.

    But I wanted check out both and see how they worked.

    Nice thing with tape and decals is they can come off and be discarded or changed whenever you want them to.

    I found out after I was done making decals that my boss has a machine to make 'em for his large RC jet planes so I'll probably start working on a new version this summer.



    In the top photo my buddy runs a bike bag business called Porcelain Rocket and his logo matched my M6's colours so I covered the Pivot logo on the HT with it. Might as well give his business some love if I am going to advertise on my bike.

    In the photo above I stuck some thin Lizard Skins protective tape on the TT primarily to protect it from shoe scuffs.

    It's thin so you won't snag it and it disappears pretty well so from a couple feet away it's invisible.



    You have to look real close to see it.



    Lizard Skin patches on the side of the headtube to prevent housing rub. Using bulk protective tape is cheaper, but these patches are so fast/convenient I used them instead.



    The shock got some fuzzy velcro on the top black part and then a section of Shelter Tape on the shock body with a zip tie to keep the cables in place and crossed over to minimize how far they stick out on each side when the suspension is compressed.

    For straight up abrasion protection Shelter Tape is overkill, but I had a roll and it was easier to use it then to head out an buy some other thinner tape.



    LS patches on the upper ST to protect where the housing rubs by the suspension yoke.



    Shelter Tape on the underside of the BB and front part of the swing arm as well as the underside of the NDS CS.



    LS patches on the frame either side of the lower suspension linkage to protect the "gravel grinder".



    Some protective film on the carbon cranks and silicone boots for the bottom of the crank arms.

    That's a lot of protective tape and such, but if it means I am riding without thinking about the bike it's worth it. This is my first carbon bike so I am not yet comfortable with what abuse it can take in crashes and such.



    That's a wrap for build pics. You won't see the Mach 6 clean again.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    [

    That's a wrap for build pics. You won't see the Mach 6 clean again.
    Drool-worthy! Very nice build. Super clean looking bike. Nice photography too. Thanks for sharing the build and the inspiration. Reminds me, I've got to get some Lizard Skin patches ordered. The 5010 should be here next week.

  8. #58
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    I've been waiting for the trails to dry out a bit and was planning to take the Mach 6 out for its first real ride by myself or with GF on her M6 so we could take it easy and get to know the bikes.

    Great plan, but that didn't happen. I got the bug to ride the Mach 6 on one of our hardest most sustained rides. Steep techy and long. My GF's comment on that choice "Bold move!"



    To preface my ride comments....I'm not one of these people that hops onto a new bike and after 5mins is shredding like nobody's business. I spent at least 3 months getting my Nomad dialled to the point I was happy and I was still making significant improvements after a year of riding. The Nomad was my first long travel MTB and I was tackling new terrain so I'm expecting the M6 break-in to be shorter, but still be a weeks long process.

    All that to say don't take these thoughts as my last word on the Mach 6.

    Fire Road Climb

    This trail has the most brutal fireroad climb in our area. 5kms of steepness with several sections I refer to as Wall #1, #2 & #3. As expected the DW-Link + lightweight made for a fast bike. Unlike my Nomad you really feel like every pedal stroke shoots the bike forward and that makes you want to hammer.

    I left the suspension in descend on both ends and never wanted it firmer. I like not messing with my suspension so finding a set and forget setup would make me happy.

    With the bigger 650B wheels the 28T x 42T wasn't crazy low.

    Something about my leg dimensions like the slack STA.

    Nothing to complain about on the fire road climb. I made it up way in front of the next rider and feeling fresher than if I had been on the Nomad.



    Muddy Steep Techy DH

    The start of this trail is fairly tough with loose steep techy lines that require precision and the ability to turn sharply and sort out the next move.

    I ran into several issues:

    - 2.2" Trail Kings were under gunned and sketchy
    - suspension was too firm
    - super light bike and wheels bounced off line easily
    - shorter more agile bike exacerbated the above issues

    I stopped and took air out of the suspension and tires and dialled the compression down and rebound dampening up. That helped, but I couldn't do anything about the tires being skinny.

    When I am not confident in my tires my whole ride is a $hitshow. I tense up. I take that split second hesitation to size up the next section that can often be the difference between success and failure.

    Where I could let the bike roll it was well balanced and easy to manoeuvre around tight sections.

    So glad I got the 160mm Pike - the front end was not slack at all.

    When I got home I ordered up some 2.35" Hans Damfs [TK's in 2.4" weren't available any time soon].

    By the time I get the bigger rubber I'll have the suspension setup better.



    Muddy Steep Techy Climbs

    This trail features lots of shorter punchy techy climbs with a few sections where you link 3-5 of them up for a longer effort.

    Given the tires the bike climbed great. I like how the DW-link feels. My Nomad feels glued to the ground, but sluggish by comparison. I was getting good traction with the M6 and the bike accelerates well on the climbs over chunks and such. The DW-link definitely feels like it stays higher in the travel, but wasn't sacrificing grip.

    The bike is precise on wooden structures. No flop in the steering. Although the on-paper HTA is slacker than my Nomad it feels steeper as noted above glad I got the 160mm fork.

    I think more aggressive tires are going to be the only thing I need to log my best climbing ever.

    I'm usually a decent climber, but I was just accelerating past folks on the Mach 6.



    ^^^^^ Don't let the chubby Brett Tippie lookalike turn you off the sweet looking Mach 6...

    General Thoughts

    - light bike got deflected off line easier than my heavy Nomad...that will take some getting used to
    - wider bars help with keeping the bike on line
    - the faster I pushed the M6 the better it did right up until the tires failed me and it went terribly wrong
    - glad to get her dirty and get my first good crash out of the way so I can get over my carbon fears
    - love the snappy DW-Link feel
    - love the suspension riding high in its travel despite some softer settings
    - wished I had better compression dampening control on both ends
    - agile bike and scary tires = way more scary
    - agile bike with aggressive tires = seems like it will be awesome
    - short rear end and short wheelbase made tight turns so much easier than the Nomad
    - I didn't really exploit the playfulness of the bike due the tires
    - despite spending more energy/stress on the DH sections...I ended up much fresher than I would on my Nomad
    Last edited by vikb; 04-07-2014 at 01:07 PM.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  9. #59
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    ^^^ Awesome post Vik. On my first ride on the Mach 6 after 3+ years on various 29er Tallboys, I couldn't believe how weird it felt on everything but the climbs. It was no Tallboy on the climbs but like you, I was leading the charge and was very happy with the DW link suspension. I attributed it mostly to new bike excitement...kind of like when you were a youngster and always thought you ran faster with new shoes

    We definitely don't have your wet conditions here in SoCal but my 2.2 TK's are doing great. They performed exceptionally well in Utah last week. That being said, I think my new "go to" tire for the rear is going to be the Specialized Ground Control 2.3's. I like everything about them. They don't make them in 27.5 yet though.

    I also leave my suspension in the Descend mode at all times, both on the Mach 6 and my Tallboy...no issues whatsoever!!

  10. #60
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    Great report. Thanks for the honest insights. Looking forward to your ungoing impressions as you dial it in more.

    I won a pair of the MK 2.2s at the Hurricane MTB Fest and was going to put them on the new bike for the faster rolling. Sounds like they're not the best in steeper, wetter conditions but k2rider liked them in the dry so I'm hoping they'll work here in Nevada too. The HRII that come with my bike are good, but a bit heavy and more agressive treads than I need for this purpose.

    LOL at the Brett Tippy comment. I was thinking the first guy was you and thought, "Man, that old guy is tearing it up on those techy BC trails!"

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Great report. Thanks for the honest insights. Looking forward to your ungoing impressions as you dial it in more.

    I won a pair of the MK 2.2s at the Hurricane MTB Fest and was going to put them on the new bike for the faster rolling. Sounds like they're not the best in steeper, wetter conditions but k2rider liked them in the dry so I'm hoping they'll work here in Nevada too. The HRII that come with my bike are good, but a bit heavy and more agressive treads than I need for this purpose.

    LOL at the Brett Tippy comment. I was thinking the first guy was you and thought, "Man, that old guy is tearing it up on those techy BC trails!"


    ^^^^ Brett Tippie

    I love Trail Kings, but I normally run the 2.4"version on my 26er Nomad.

    Three issues are at play here:

    1. wet, very steep and muddy conditions [definitely a problem]

    2. very light wheels getting deflected more easily [definitely an issue]

    3. wide rims and narrow tires affect the tire profile and angle of side knobs [maybe]

    I think for dry conditions with lots of traction they'd be great. I would give them a shot. I'd use them in Moab/Sedona where [compared to BC winter riding] there is traction for days!!

    Mike Curiak posted on MTBR about light tires/rims being a concern for stability and I can now see what he meant. I've always had reasonably heavy bikes/wheels so it never came up until now.

    Anyways some big Hans Damfs are on their way to me and I'll use the 2.2" TKs for summer and epic rides where speed/efficiency is the most important thing.

    Unless the HDs blow me away I'll get some TK's in 2.4" for the Mach 6. They've treated me well for years so they deserve my $$ and love.



    ^^^ not Brett Tippie....

    I am so glad for posting on MTBR. I didn't realize that I could go to a whole bunch of Canadian MTB events and get treated like a VIP aka Brett Tippie as long as I didn't get on a bike and let my weak skills blow my cover! Hahahah

    Can't wait to see the Solo KRob. You are going to leave 'em in your dust.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  12. #62
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    Brett hopped on the lift with us on one of the last runs of the day when I was at Whistler. Funny guy. He is non-stop crazy.

  13. #63
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    Vikb,

    Great ride report on the Mach6... wow, that's an awful lot of frame protection... I always go the route of less is more, but that's personal choice.

    Interesting you mentioned the point of a "light" bike being harder to hold a line... I don't have a Mach 6, but my Intense Carbine (26.5lbs) I find to be a chore on hard charging descents that have a lot of chunder. I am now thinking I need to add some weight to my bike (LOL)... It does make for a great climber though. I'm a big guy at well north of 200 so I may be making the switch back to an aluminum frame next and get the weight back up to 28/29lbs. Crazy that I am even considering this, but for southern interior trails (Nelson, B.C.) it works better.

  14. #64
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    I started with 2.35/2.25 front/rear Hans Dampfs on my M6, and have since swapped out the front for a Magic Mary. The Mary is AWESOME, under 100g heavier than a Dampf and just absolutely glued to the trail. Cornering knobs are big and mean and well-supported, not like those little nubs on the Dampf. That change really opened up the M6 for me; like you note, it's an agile bike, which can make it seem squirrelly if the tires are under-spec'd. But when you have tires you trust, it's just so so much fun!

  15. #65
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    Wish my Mach 6 would hurry up and turn up. All these pictures and reports is painful to see/read!

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    Vikb,

    Great ride report on the Mach6... wow, that's an awful lot of frame protection... I always go the route of less is more, but that's personal choice.

    Interesting you mentioned the point of a "light" bike being harder to hold a line... I don't have a Mach 6, but my Intense Carbine (26.5lbs) I find to be a chore on hard charging descents that have a lot of chunder. I am now thinking I need to add some weight to my bike (LOL)... It does make for a great climber though. I'm a big guy at well north of 200 so I may be making the switch back to an aluminum frame next and get the weight back up to 28/29lbs. Crazy that I am even considering this, but for southern interior trails (Nelson, B.C.) it works better.
    Ya the frame protection is over the top, but I'm still not comfy with the idea of a carbon bike after decades on metal. I'm sure that's a phase that will pass, but if a few $$ and a few grams of protection make me feel better about riding a $3K frame I'm okay with that.

    I joked with a friend about finally getting a really light bike and then seeing the downsides...be careful what you wish for!

    I'm not quite ready to add lead shot to the frame and I am enjoying how much fresher I'm feeling at the end of a long ride.

    I figure getting more aggressive rubber on there is going to help a lot. Both in terms of straight up traction and adding some rotating weight to the wheels. If that lets me charge harder those wheels spinning faster will be more stable. I noticed that on the ride I posted about above. The faster I went the better the M6 rode, but it was dangerous because going off trail here at speed is likely to result in a hospital visit.

    I'm also going to soften the suspension as much as I can to ensure my front wheel tracks as well as possible.

    If necessary I'll consider going to a wider bar as well.

    At heart I am not a weight weenie. I just like to ride so I'm happy to tweak the M6 as needed to get the performance I want.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I started with 2.35/2.25 front/rear Hans Dampfs on my M6, and have since swapped out the front for a Magic Mary. The Mary is AWESOME, under 100g heavier than a Dampf and just absolutely glued to the trail. Cornering knobs are big and mean and well-supported, not like those little nubs on the Dampf. That change really opened up the M6 for me; like you note, it's an agile bike, which can make it seem squirrelly if the tires are under-spec'd. But when you have tires you trust, it's just so so much fun!
    Good point. If I was facing the start of the winter here I'd consider something more aggressive. But things are drying out so the HDs [and eventually some 2.4" Trail Kings] are a good all around tire for me. I've had year round success with the wider TKs on the Nomad so I'll definitely give them a shot on the Mach 6.

    I can see how the M6 will be great once I sort out my confidence in its ability to stick to the trail.

    I got greedy specing skinnier rubber. My bad.

    OTOH - the M6 opens up the potential for epic long rides where the 2.2" TKs might be just the ticket as long as the trails are dry.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Good point. If I was facing the start of the winter here I'd consider something more aggressive. But things are drying out so the HDs [and eventually some 2.4" Trail Kings] are a good all around tire for me. I've had year round success with the wider TKs on the Nomad so I'll definitely give them a shot on the Mach 6.

    I can see how the M6 will be great once I sort out my confidence in its ability to stick to the trail.

    I got greedy specing skinnier rubber. My bad.

    OTOH - the M6 opens up the potential for epic long rides where the 2.2" TKs might be just the ticket as long as the trails are dry.
    Cool, whatever works for you. I've found that Mary on the front to be a fine trail tire, I've hauled that thing up some sizable mountains and it rolls well enough and is light enough in the Snakeskin guise to work fine. And I've had no problems doing 5+hour rides with Dampfs front and back. Then again I also have a Ripley built light with skinny rubber for when I really want to cover the miles, so I enjoy fatter rubber on the M6.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    Cool, whatever works for you. I've found that Mary on the front to be a fine trail tire, I've hauled that thing up some sizable mountains and it rolls well enough and is light enough in the Snakeskin guise to work fine. And I've had no problems doing 5+hour rides with Dampfs front and back. Then again I also have a Ripley built light with skinny rubber for when I really want to cover the miles, so I enjoy fatter rubber on the M6.
    I'm trying to stick with the one-bike-to-rule-them-all plan.

    I've done long rides on the Nomad and survived. I'm just trying to keep to a more efficient middle road - where I can.

    Although I am not planning on it right now having 2 wheelsets for the M6 with different tires isn't totally out of the question.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  19. #69
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    Vik's Mach 6 Builds

    I was disappointed with the 2.2 TKs after loving the 2.4s. High Roller 2s work well in damp rocky conditions. I lalso ove my Hans Dampfs in 2.35. They are big. My only concern is they wear quickly. As for tire pressure I think it makes a huge difference particularly in damp / wet. I always go as low as I dare.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #70
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    Vik, one idea for you on the suspension setup. Try starting soft and moving up rather than firm moving down. Firm suspension is usually a band aid for bob inherent in VPP/FSR. With DW the linkage compensates allowing you use of much lower pressures and really requires it to keep from bouncing off line. Remember that there is much more mid stroke support built in as well and the bike will ride higher in general.

    I weight the exact same as you and run 155 PSI rear and 52 PSI front. This should equal just over 30% sag. Also DW likes very fast rebound even though it feels weird on pavement at first. Open the front and rear up significantly to maintain balance. Pivot suggests 4 clicks from wide open in the rear and front should be very similar. These sound like crazy numbers coming off VPP and I fought it a long time on my HD. Hopefully this helps with the setup.

  21. #71
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    SP, this is interesting; I've also been running my shock at higher pressure, about 200lbs (I'm 6'3" ~195 lbs.) which gives about 25% sag, just less than the red line on the sag indicator. I find that otherwise I'm bottoming out the shock on larger drops. It doesn't FEEL like harsh bottom-out, but my rubber band is blasted off the end of the shock. I should note that I often ride at a local park (Duthie Hill) which includes lots of gaps and drops, so the bottoming is generally on drops over 3' or so. Given this relatively high pressure, I've been using firmer rebound too, 7-8 out from full-firm on the shock. Otherwise I feel a "pogo" effect on landing drops, and sometimes feel like I'm getting ejected off jump transitions in unexpected directions.

    Is there a pivot-suggested setting for the Float X? I checked their suspension page but didn't see that listed.

  22. #72
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    Vik's Mach 6 Builds

    ^^^SuperAwesome posts Vikb^^^

  23. #73
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    Wow, tons of thought is going into riding this bike!

    I demo'd the Mach6 and I have the Mach5.7. Incidently I've ridden that trail on my Mach5.7 with 2.35 minions on the front, ardent rear, on wet but not muddy conditions and it was AWESOME.

    I don't think the bike being too light should be an issue, especially with a Pike! The TK should be able to handle that trail quite well.

    How much does your Mach6 weigh? My 5.7 is 27lbs, which many would consider to be heavy.

    If you're going to ride that trail when its really wet and muddy, you might want to consider downhill tires to give you more confidence. The Hans Dampfs are a good all round tire, in really muddy conditions I don't think it will excel either. The minion, or HR2 would be a better bet.
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodiegrrl View Post
    Wow, tons of thought is going into riding this bike!

    I demo'd the Mach6 and I have the Mach5.7. Incidently I've ridden that trail on my Mach5.7 with 2.35 minions on the front, ardent rear, on wet but not muddy conditions and it was AWESOME.

    I don't think the bike being too light should be an issue, especially with a Pike! The TK should be able to handle that trail quite well.

    How much does your Mach6 weigh? My 5.7 is 27lbs, which many would consider to be heavy.

    If you're going to ride that trail when its really wet and muddy, you might want to consider downhill tires to give you more confidence. The Hans Dampfs are a good all round tire, in really muddy conditions I don't think it will excel either. The minion, or HR2 would be a better bet.
    The light wheels/bike definitely get pushed off line more easily. The physics behind that is obvious. I agree that it shouldn't be a major problem with some time to adapt and the appropriate tires.

    Having said that I think it's worth noting the difference between a that and a heavier wheel/bike since the increased stability can be desirable depending on the trail/rider.

    The light bike gives you agility which can also be great.

    I got the HDs on. The LB rims setup tubeless easier than anything else I've used.

    For the weight weenies...27.5 x 2.35" HDs were 795g and 822g.

    TK's in 2.2" = 771g each.

    I've ridden Maple several times at least once in full on wet winter conditions. With the 35lbs Nomad and 2.4TKs it was no problem to ride. In fact the trail was perfect for that bike.

    The 2.4" TKs are the tire I'm most used and I've spent a couple winters on Van Isle riding them with total confidence. So I don't feel the need for full on DH tires. I just need a comparable wide all rounder to the 2.4" TKs which I think the HDs are.

    I would have just bought the wider TKs, but I couldn't find them in stock from any vendor I wanted to use.

    BTW - thanks for the maple video and GPS track you posted. It got us stoked to ride that trail the first time.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Vik, one idea for you on the suspension setup. Try starting soft and moving up rather than firm moving down. Firm suspension is usually a band aid for bob inherent in VPP/FSR. With DW the linkage compensates allowing you use of much lower pressures and really requires it to keep from bouncing off line. Remember that there is much more mid stroke support built in as well and the bike will ride higher in general.

    I weight the exact same as you and run 155 PSI rear and 52 PSI front. This should equal just over 30% sag. Also DW likes very fast rebound even though it feels weird on pavement at first. Open the front and rear up significantly to maintain balance. Pivot suggests 4 clicks from wide open in the rear and front should be very similar. These sound like crazy numbers coming off VPP and I fought it a long time on my HD. Hopefully this helps with the setup.
    I ran my Nomad's suspension very soft. Once I got the DHX Air 5 Avy'd the rear didn't have that VPP soft spot anymore.

    I checked my M6 suspension pressure post ride and I was just a couple PSI higher than what you recommend...so adjusting by feel on the trail we got to pretty much the same numbers. I like it!

    I've got the rebound set pretty fast. At least to me so we'll see how it does. I'll keep an open mind about setting it faster.

    I've got two rides booked for the weekend on the M6.

    Fairly challenging, but trails I ride regularly and not as long as the previous weekend so that will let me gauge the performance of the M6 well and make taking time to tweak the bike less of an issue.

    Thanks for all the feedback folks. It's appreciated.
    Safe riding,

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