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  1. #51
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    What are the differences under weave, 12k 3k UD ?

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkhünd View Post
    Thanks for the info. Keep sending the beautiful picks as you dial it in! What's a good spoke count for the LB rims, 28 or 32 ?
    I can't see any reason not to run 32H rims. It's a standard configuration that's proven to work. Easily available parts and will work across my fleet if say the hubs get replaced on the original bike.

    The weight saved by running 4 less spokes is negligible, but being able to complete a ride with a broken spoke or two is nice.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  3. #53
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    Got my M6's suspension setup. Just the initial range which will get tweaked still.

    I'm 180lbs naked, 5'11" normal athletic build.

    160mm Pike

    - 65 psi ~25% sag
    - Rebound 10 clicks from full open
    - Compression Descend 4 clicks from full open
    - didn't add any tokens

    Float X

    - 190 psi ~ 25% sag
    - Rebound 9 clicks from full open
    - Compression Descend [most riding] & Trail 1 for fire road climbs

    Tires [2.2" Conti Trail King tubeless on 35mm rims]

    - front 20 psi
    - rear 22 psi

    We ride techy steep trails in the forest so speeds stay on the lower side of things with lots of rough spots and turns to deal with. It's rare to have a really wide open descent where you can pin it.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  4. #54
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    Check out the new NOX Composites website too. I have them on both my bikes now after **BOTH** my Enve's failed on my Tallboy in (8) months time. Since I wasn't the original owner, somehow that means the wheels suck as soon as the 2nd owner gets them according to Enve. The NOX wheelsets were over $1000 less than comparable Enve's. My buddy built up his own LB wheels for $300 less than my NOX wheels and he is very happy with them. He did save $300 but built the wheels himself and doesn't have the warranty that NOX (and American company by the way) provides!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocmedic View Post
    Also how do you like those 35mm wide LB hoops? I am so torn between building a set of these or just getting ENVE's and sadly my biggest reason for wanting ENVE's is because I think they look cool. Are the LB's just as good?

  5. #55
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    I got LB rims and built them as wheels. LB also sells complete wheels. You get warranties with both.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  6. #56
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    I went a bit nutty on the frame protection and decals. You could just hop on the bike and ride it as is without having any issues.

    But I wanted check out both and see how they worked.

    Nice thing with tape and decals is they can come off and be discarded or changed whenever you want them to.

    I found out after I was done making decals that my boss has a machine to make 'em for his large RC jet planes so I'll probably start working on a new version this summer.



    In the top photo my buddy runs a bike bag business called Porcelain Rocket and his logo matched my M6's colours so I covered the Pivot logo on the HT with it. Might as well give his business some love if I am going to advertise on my bike.

    In the photo above I stuck some thin Lizard Skins protective tape on the TT primarily to protect it from shoe scuffs.

    It's thin so you won't snag it and it disappears pretty well so from a couple feet away it's invisible.



    You have to look real close to see it.



    Lizard Skin patches on the side of the headtube to prevent housing rub. Using bulk protective tape is cheaper, but these patches are so fast/convenient I used them instead.



    The shock got some fuzzy velcro on the top black part and then a section of Shelter Tape on the shock body with a zip tie to keep the cables in place and crossed over to minimize how far they stick out on each side when the suspension is compressed.

    For straight up abrasion protection Shelter Tape is overkill, but I had a roll and it was easier to use it then to head out an buy some other thinner tape.



    LS patches on the upper ST to protect where the housing rubs by the suspension yoke.



    Shelter Tape on the underside of the BB and front part of the swing arm as well as the underside of the NDS CS.



    LS patches on the frame either side of the lower suspension linkage to protect the "gravel grinder".



    Some protective film on the carbon cranks and silicone boots for the bottom of the crank arms.

    That's a lot of protective tape and such, but if it means I am riding without thinking about the bike it's worth it. This is my first carbon bike so I am not yet comfortable with what abuse it can take in crashes and such.



    That's a wrap for build pics. You won't see the Mach 6 clean again.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    [

    That's a wrap for build pics. You won't see the Mach 6 clean again.
    Drool-worthy! Very nice build. Super clean looking bike. Nice photography too. Thanks for sharing the build and the inspiration. Reminds me, I've got to get some Lizard Skin patches ordered. The 5010 should be here next week.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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  8. #58
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    I've been waiting for the trails to dry out a bit and was planning to take the Mach 6 out for its first real ride by myself or with GF on her M6 so we could take it easy and get to know the bikes.

    Great plan, but that didn't happen. I got the bug to ride the Mach 6 on one of our hardest most sustained rides. Steep techy and long. My GF's comment on that choice "Bold move!"



    To preface my ride comments....I'm not one of these people that hops onto a new bike and after 5mins is shredding like nobody's business. I spent at least 3 months getting my Nomad dialled to the point I was happy and I was still making significant improvements after a year of riding. The Nomad was my first long travel MTB and I was tackling new terrain so I'm expecting the M6 break-in to be shorter, but still be a weeks long process.

    All that to say don't take these thoughts as my last word on the Mach 6.

    Fire Road Climb

    This trail has the most brutal fireroad climb in our area. 5kms of steepness with several sections I refer to as Wall #1, #2 & #3. As expected the DW-Link + lightweight made for a fast bike. Unlike my Nomad you really feel like every pedal stroke shoots the bike forward and that makes you want to hammer.

    I left the suspension in descend on both ends and never wanted it firmer. I like not messing with my suspension so finding a set and forget setup would make me happy.

    With the bigger 650B wheels the 28T x 42T wasn't crazy low.

    Something about my leg dimensions like the slack STA.

    Nothing to complain about on the fire road climb. I made it up way in front of the next rider and feeling fresher than if I had been on the Nomad.



    Muddy Steep Techy DH

    The start of this trail is fairly tough with loose steep techy lines that require precision and the ability to turn sharply and sort out the next move.

    I ran into several issues:

    - 2.2" Trail Kings were under gunned and sketchy
    - suspension was too firm
    - super light bike and wheels bounced off line easily
    - shorter more agile bike exacerbated the above issues

    I stopped and took air out of the suspension and tires and dialled the compression down and rebound dampening up. That helped, but I couldn't do anything about the tires being skinny.

    When I am not confident in my tires my whole ride is a $hitshow. I tense up. I take that split second hesitation to size up the next section that can often be the difference between success and failure.

    Where I could let the bike roll it was well balanced and easy to manoeuvre around tight sections.

    So glad I got the 160mm Pike - the front end was not slack at all.

    When I got home I ordered up some 2.35" Hans Damfs [TK's in 2.4" weren't available any time soon].

    By the time I get the bigger rubber I'll have the suspension setup better.



    Muddy Steep Techy Climbs

    This trail features lots of shorter punchy techy climbs with a few sections where you link 3-5 of them up for a longer effort.

    Given the tires the bike climbed great. I like how the DW-link feels. My Nomad feels glued to the ground, but sluggish by comparison. I was getting good traction with the M6 and the bike accelerates well on the climbs over chunks and such. The DW-link definitely feels like it stays higher in the travel, but wasn't sacrificing grip.

    The bike is precise on wooden structures. No flop in the steering. Although the on-paper HTA is slacker than my Nomad it feels steeper as noted above glad I got the 160mm fork.

    I think more aggressive tires are going to be the only thing I need to log my best climbing ever.

    I'm usually a decent climber, but I was just accelerating past folks on the Mach 6.



    ^^^^^ Don't let the chubby Brett Tippie lookalike turn you off the sweet looking Mach 6...

    General Thoughts

    - light bike got deflected off line easier than my heavy Nomad...that will take some getting used to
    - wider bars help with keeping the bike on line
    - the faster I pushed the M6 the better it did right up until the tires failed me and it went terribly wrong
    - glad to get her dirty and get my first good crash out of the way so I can get over my carbon fears
    - love the snappy DW-Link feel
    - love the suspension riding high in its travel despite some softer settings
    - wished I had better compression dampening control on both ends
    - agile bike and scary tires = way more scary
    - agile bike with aggressive tires = seems like it will be awesome
    - short rear end and short wheelbase made tight turns so much easier than the Nomad
    - I didn't really exploit the playfulness of the bike due the tires
    - despite spending more energy/stress on the DH sections...I ended up much fresher than I would on my Nomad
    Last edited by vikb; 04-07-2014 at 02:07 PM.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  9. #59
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    ^^^ Awesome post Vik. On my first ride on the Mach 6 after 3+ years on various 29er Tallboys, I couldn't believe how weird it felt on everything but the climbs. It was no Tallboy on the climbs but like you, I was leading the charge and was very happy with the DW link suspension. I attributed it mostly to new bike excitement...kind of like when you were a youngster and always thought you ran faster with new shoes

    We definitely don't have your wet conditions here in SoCal but my 2.2 TK's are doing great. They performed exceptionally well in Utah last week. That being said, I think my new "go to" tire for the rear is going to be the Specialized Ground Control 2.3's. I like everything about them. They don't make them in 27.5 yet though.

    I also leave my suspension in the Descend mode at all times, both on the Mach 6 and my Tallboy...no issues whatsoever!!

  10. #60
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    Great report. Thanks for the honest insights. Looking forward to your ungoing impressions as you dial it in more.

    I won a pair of the MK 2.2s at the Hurricane MTB Fest and was going to put them on the new bike for the faster rolling. Sounds like they're not the best in steeper, wetter conditions but k2rider liked them in the dry so I'm hoping they'll work here in Nevada too. The HRII that come with my bike are good, but a bit heavy and more agressive treads than I need for this purpose.

    LOL at the Brett Tippy comment. I was thinking the first guy was you and thought, "Man, that old guy is tearing it up on those techy BC trails!"
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Great report. Thanks for the honest insights. Looking forward to your ungoing impressions as you dial it in more.

    I won a pair of the MK 2.2s at the Hurricane MTB Fest and was going to put them on the new bike for the faster rolling. Sounds like they're not the best in steeper, wetter conditions but k2rider liked them in the dry so I'm hoping they'll work here in Nevada too. The HRII that come with my bike are good, but a bit heavy and more agressive treads than I need for this purpose.

    LOL at the Brett Tippy comment. I was thinking the first guy was you and thought, "Man, that old guy is tearing it up on those techy BC trails!"


    ^^^^ Brett Tippie

    I love Trail Kings, but I normally run the 2.4"version on my 26er Nomad.

    Three issues are at play here:

    1. wet, very steep and muddy conditions [definitely a problem]

    2. very light wheels getting deflected more easily [definitely an issue]

    3. wide rims and narrow tires affect the tire profile and angle of side knobs [maybe]

    I think for dry conditions with lots of traction they'd be great. I would give them a shot. I'd use them in Moab/Sedona where [compared to BC winter riding] there is traction for days!!

    Mike Curiak posted on MTBR about light tires/rims being a concern for stability and I can now see what he meant. I've always had reasonably heavy bikes/wheels so it never came up until now.

    Anyways some big Hans Damfs are on their way to me and I'll use the 2.2" TKs for summer and epic rides where speed/efficiency is the most important thing.

    Unless the HDs blow me away I'll get some TK's in 2.4" for the Mach 6. They've treated me well for years so they deserve my $$ and love.



    ^^^ not Brett Tippie....

    I am so glad for posting on MTBR. I didn't realize that I could go to a whole bunch of Canadian MTB events and get treated like a VIP aka Brett Tippie as long as I didn't get on a bike and let my weak skills blow my cover! Hahahah

    Can't wait to see the Solo KRob. You are going to leave 'em in your dust.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  12. #62
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    Brett hopped on the lift with us on one of the last runs of the day when I was at Whistler. Funny guy. He is non-stop crazy.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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  13. #63
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    Vikb,

    Great ride report on the Mach6... wow, that's an awful lot of frame protection... I always go the route of less is more, but that's personal choice.

    Interesting you mentioned the point of a "light" bike being harder to hold a line... I don't have a Mach 6, but my Intense Carbine (26.5lbs) I find to be a chore on hard charging descents that have a lot of chunder. I am now thinking I need to add some weight to my bike (LOL)... It does make for a great climber though. I'm a big guy at well north of 200 so I may be making the switch back to an aluminum frame next and get the weight back up to 28/29lbs. Crazy that I am even considering this, but for southern interior trails (Nelson, B.C.) it works better.

  14. #64
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    I started with 2.35/2.25 front/rear Hans Dampfs on my M6, and have since swapped out the front for a Magic Mary. The Mary is AWESOME, under 100g heavier than a Dampf and just absolutely glued to the trail. Cornering knobs are big and mean and well-supported, not like those little nubs on the Dampf. That change really opened up the M6 for me; like you note, it's an agile bike, which can make it seem squirrelly if the tires are under-spec'd. But when you have tires you trust, it's just so so much fun!

  15. #65
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    Wish my Mach 6 would hurry up and turn up. All these pictures and reports is painful to see/read!

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    Vikb,

    Great ride report on the Mach6... wow, that's an awful lot of frame protection... I always go the route of less is more, but that's personal choice.

    Interesting you mentioned the point of a "light" bike being harder to hold a line... I don't have a Mach 6, but my Intense Carbine (26.5lbs) I find to be a chore on hard charging descents that have a lot of chunder. I am now thinking I need to add some weight to my bike (LOL)... It does make for a great climber though. I'm a big guy at well north of 200 so I may be making the switch back to an aluminum frame next and get the weight back up to 28/29lbs. Crazy that I am even considering this, but for southern interior trails (Nelson, B.C.) it works better.
    Ya the frame protection is over the top, but I'm still not comfy with the idea of a carbon bike after decades on metal. I'm sure that's a phase that will pass, but if a few $$ and a few grams of protection make me feel better about riding a $3K frame I'm okay with that.

    I joked with a friend about finally getting a really light bike and then seeing the downsides...be careful what you wish for!

    I'm not quite ready to add lead shot to the frame and I am enjoying how much fresher I'm feeling at the end of a long ride.

    I figure getting more aggressive rubber on there is going to help a lot. Both in terms of straight up traction and adding some rotating weight to the wheels. If that lets me charge harder those wheels spinning faster will be more stable. I noticed that on the ride I posted about above. The faster I went the better the M6 rode, but it was dangerous because going off trail here at speed is likely to result in a hospital visit.

    I'm also going to soften the suspension as much as I can to ensure my front wheel tracks as well as possible.

    If necessary I'll consider going to a wider bar as well.

    At heart I am not a weight weenie. I just like to ride so I'm happy to tweak the M6 as needed to get the performance I want.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I started with 2.35/2.25 front/rear Hans Dampfs on my M6, and have since swapped out the front for a Magic Mary. The Mary is AWESOME, under 100g heavier than a Dampf and just absolutely glued to the trail. Cornering knobs are big and mean and well-supported, not like those little nubs on the Dampf. That change really opened up the M6 for me; like you note, it's an agile bike, which can make it seem squirrelly if the tires are under-spec'd. But when you have tires you trust, it's just so so much fun!
    Good point. If I was facing the start of the winter here I'd consider something more aggressive. But things are drying out so the HDs [and eventually some 2.4" Trail Kings] are a good all around tire for me. I've had year round success with the wider TKs on the Nomad so I'll definitely give them a shot on the Mach 6.

    I can see how the M6 will be great once I sort out my confidence in its ability to stick to the trail.

    I got greedy specing skinnier rubber. My bad.

    OTOH - the M6 opens up the potential for epic long rides where the 2.2" TKs might be just the ticket as long as the trails are dry.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Good point. If I was facing the start of the winter here I'd consider something more aggressive. But things are drying out so the HDs [and eventually some 2.4" Trail Kings] are a good all around tire for me. I've had year round success with the wider TKs on the Nomad so I'll definitely give them a shot on the Mach 6.

    I can see how the M6 will be great once I sort out my confidence in its ability to stick to the trail.

    I got greedy specing skinnier rubber. My bad.

    OTOH - the M6 opens up the potential for epic long rides where the 2.2" TKs might be just the ticket as long as the trails are dry.
    Cool, whatever works for you. I've found that Mary on the front to be a fine trail tire, I've hauled that thing up some sizable mountains and it rolls well enough and is light enough in the Snakeskin guise to work fine. And I've had no problems doing 5+hour rides with Dampfs front and back. Then again I also have a Ripley built light with skinny rubber for when I really want to cover the miles, so I enjoy fatter rubber on the M6.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    Cool, whatever works for you. I've found that Mary on the front to be a fine trail tire, I've hauled that thing up some sizable mountains and it rolls well enough and is light enough in the Snakeskin guise to work fine. And I've had no problems doing 5+hour rides with Dampfs front and back. Then again I also have a Ripley built light with skinny rubber for when I really want to cover the miles, so I enjoy fatter rubber on the M6.
    I'm trying to stick with the one-bike-to-rule-them-all plan.

    I've done long rides on the Nomad and survived. I'm just trying to keep to a more efficient middle road - where I can.

    Although I am not planning on it right now having 2 wheelsets for the M6 with different tires isn't totally out of the question.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  19. #69
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    Vik's Mach 6 Builds

    I was disappointed with the 2.2 TKs after loving the 2.4s. High Roller 2s work well in damp rocky conditions. I lalso ove my Hans Dampfs in 2.35. They are big. My only concern is they wear quickly. As for tire pressure I think it makes a huge difference particularly in damp / wet. I always go as low as I dare.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #70
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    Vik, one idea for you on the suspension setup. Try starting soft and moving up rather than firm moving down. Firm suspension is usually a band aid for bob inherent in VPP/FSR. With DW the linkage compensates allowing you use of much lower pressures and really requires it to keep from bouncing off line. Remember that there is much more mid stroke support built in as well and the bike will ride higher in general.

    I weight the exact same as you and run 155 PSI rear and 52 PSI front. This should equal just over 30% sag. Also DW likes very fast rebound even though it feels weird on pavement at first. Open the front and rear up significantly to maintain balance. Pivot suggests 4 clicks from wide open in the rear and front should be very similar. These sound like crazy numbers coming off VPP and I fought it a long time on my HD. Hopefully this helps with the setup.

  21. #71
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    SP, this is interesting; I've also been running my shock at higher pressure, about 200lbs (I'm 6'3" ~195 lbs.) which gives about 25% sag, just less than the red line on the sag indicator. I find that otherwise I'm bottoming out the shock on larger drops. It doesn't FEEL like harsh bottom-out, but my rubber band is blasted off the end of the shock. I should note that I often ride at a local park (Duthie Hill) which includes lots of gaps and drops, so the bottoming is generally on drops over 3' or so. Given this relatively high pressure, I've been using firmer rebound too, 7-8 out from full-firm on the shock. Otherwise I feel a "pogo" effect on landing drops, and sometimes feel like I'm getting ejected off jump transitions in unexpected directions.

    Is there a pivot-suggested setting for the Float X? I checked their suspension page but didn't see that listed.

  22. #72
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    Vik's Mach 6 Builds

    ^^^SuperAwesome posts Vikb^^^

  23. #73
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    Wow, tons of thought is going into riding this bike!

    I demo'd the Mach6 and I have the Mach5.7. Incidently I've ridden that trail on my Mach5.7 with 2.35 minions on the front, ardent rear, on wet but not muddy conditions and it was AWESOME.

    I don't think the bike being too light should be an issue, especially with a Pike! The TK should be able to handle that trail quite well.

    How much does your Mach6 weigh? My 5.7 is 27lbs, which many would consider to be heavy.

    If you're going to ride that trail when its really wet and muddy, you might want to consider downhill tires to give you more confidence. The Hans Dampfs are a good all round tire, in really muddy conditions I don't think it will excel either. The minion, or HR2 would be a better bet.
    Locals' Guide to North Shore Rides http://mtbtrails.ca/

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodiegrrl View Post
    Wow, tons of thought is going into riding this bike!

    I demo'd the Mach6 and I have the Mach5.7. Incidently I've ridden that trail on my Mach5.7 with 2.35 minions on the front, ardent rear, on wet but not muddy conditions and it was AWESOME.

    I don't think the bike being too light should be an issue, especially with a Pike! The TK should be able to handle that trail quite well.

    How much does your Mach6 weigh? My 5.7 is 27lbs, which many would consider to be heavy.

    If you're going to ride that trail when its really wet and muddy, you might want to consider downhill tires to give you more confidence. The Hans Dampfs are a good all round tire, in really muddy conditions I don't think it will excel either. The minion, or HR2 would be a better bet.
    The light wheels/bike definitely get pushed off line more easily. The physics behind that is obvious. I agree that it shouldn't be a major problem with some time to adapt and the appropriate tires.

    Having said that I think it's worth noting the difference between a that and a heavier wheel/bike since the increased stability can be desirable depending on the trail/rider.

    The light bike gives you agility which can also be great.

    I got the HDs on. The LB rims setup tubeless easier than anything else I've used.

    For the weight weenies...27.5 x 2.35" HDs were 795g and 822g.

    TK's in 2.2" = 771g each.

    I've ridden Maple several times at least once in full on wet winter conditions. With the 35lbs Nomad and 2.4TKs it was no problem to ride. In fact the trail was perfect for that bike.

    The 2.4" TKs are the tire I'm most used and I've spent a couple winters on Van Isle riding them with total confidence. So I don't feel the need for full on DH tires. I just need a comparable wide all rounder to the 2.4" TKs which I think the HDs are.

    I would have just bought the wider TKs, but I couldn't find them in stock from any vendor I wanted to use.

    BTW - thanks for the maple video and GPS track you posted. It got us stoked to ride that trail the first time.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Vik, one idea for you on the suspension setup. Try starting soft and moving up rather than firm moving down. Firm suspension is usually a band aid for bob inherent in VPP/FSR. With DW the linkage compensates allowing you use of much lower pressures and really requires it to keep from bouncing off line. Remember that there is much more mid stroke support built in as well and the bike will ride higher in general.

    I weight the exact same as you and run 155 PSI rear and 52 PSI front. This should equal just over 30% sag. Also DW likes very fast rebound even though it feels weird on pavement at first. Open the front and rear up significantly to maintain balance. Pivot suggests 4 clicks from wide open in the rear and front should be very similar. These sound like crazy numbers coming off VPP and I fought it a long time on my HD. Hopefully this helps with the setup.
    I ran my Nomad's suspension very soft. Once I got the DHX Air 5 Avy'd the rear didn't have that VPP soft spot anymore.

    I checked my M6 suspension pressure post ride and I was just a couple PSI higher than what you recommend...so adjusting by feel on the trail we got to pretty much the same numbers. I like it!

    I've got the rebound set pretty fast. At least to me so we'll see how it does. I'll keep an open mind about setting it faster.

    I've got two rides booked for the weekend on the M6.

    Fairly challenging, but trails I ride regularly and not as long as the previous weekend so that will let me gauge the performance of the M6 well and make taking time to tweak the bike less of an issue.

    Thanks for all the feedback folks. It's appreciated.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  26. #76
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    The state of the beast today...



    I was asked for HD 2.35" clearance photos. Tons of clearance in the Pike for any reasonable 650B tire and probably even some unreasonable 3" rubber.



    Lots of clearance by the upper link & SS for the HD. My gut feeling is the 2.4" TKs are a bit wider, but they'll fit no issues as well.



    Lots of room in the lower link/CS area.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  27. #77
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    Excellent ride today on the Mach 6 and my GF got out on her's for its first shred as well.

    In the photo above is Bev the only other Pivot owner we know of on our island. It's a small tribe!

    Conditions were drier and less sustained DH shred.....more slow twisty climbing and descending on steep tech.

    The HDs roll great and grip well. No complaints putting them on the bike.

    I ran the suspension at the pressures stated above with no changes. Most of the time I ran the bike in descend at both ends. I tried Trail 1 on the Float X for some climbs. Didn't feel a huge difference on the bike despite and obvious change when testing it at a stop.

    Getting more confidence on the rig. Learning where to put my weight vs. the Nomad.

    Noticed the slack front end a bit more in the twisties, but it was so nice on the drops and descents it seems like a reasonable trade off.



    A few thoughts from today:

    - bike is dialled enough now for me to tackle anything I normally ride
    - need to just keep riding it and staying off the Nomad to get my reactions sync'd with the bike
    - brakes are so strong what would be light braking on the Nomad's Avids is OTB or rear skid on the XTRs
    - uber mild feathering is all I will need normally
    - large frame size is perfect w/ 65mm stem
    - I can get back and pop front wheel or get over the front wheel to plant it for aggressive turns
    - short rear end and short WB makes 180 deg switchbacks easy
    - agile bike and traction = nice precise riding
    - big wheels roll through tech great...fast and easy without many hang ups
    - faster I ride the better the bike feels
    - definitely not as plush as the Nomad at slow speeds...feels like driving a sports car...it's taut
    - what a waste the compression dampening is on the front/back on this bike if I am running them on wide open
    - I'm not really feeling that much faster than the Nomad, but definitely fresher at the end
    - long rides on the Mach 6 should be great
    - had the rear tire buzz my shorts a few times on the downhills...lol...need to be careful!



    My GF got jealous of the custom fork decals on my M6 so she got her own.

    When I mentioned the "34" sticker was supposed to be on the fork brace she let me know that was silly. A Hello Kitty sticker is going there.

    Overall she had a great ride. She's a bit behind getting used to the M6 so I'll wait to post her thoughts. We'll be doing a longer ride on them tomorrow.



    I know this is the Pivot forum, but I have to say that riding a new state of the art 2013/14 bike makes me appreciate how darn good my Nomad was/is for a bike that hasn't changed significantly from 2008/09 to basically just now with the release of the 27.5 Nomad MK3. With comparable parts it's not giving up that much to the M6.

    I was thinking of keeping the Nomad as my back up bike and winter bike. I may bling it out and keep it now. That glue to the ground VPP feeling may not be the fastest most efficient ride, but it's plush and in winter being glued to the trail is everything.

    I may even score a cheap Nomad Mk2 C frame if one crosses my path. 26ers are dead so hopefully I can get a deal.

    Having two great bikes to ride - wining!
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  28. #78
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    Thanks for the update vik. Sounds like the HDs will solve some of the deflection/low traction feel of the stock tires. As you said, the 2.4 Trail Kings are really good for soaking up bumps and conforming to the trail surface, but the HD's are close.

    BTW, just checked out your blog. Nice work. Now following. And thanks for the encouragement for starting my own. It's in its infancy but it is up and running now.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

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  29. #79
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    We got out for some great rides on the Mach 6's this weekend.

    I'm getting more and more in tune with the bike and getting more out of it each ride.

    In particular I'm out climbing the Nomad on trails I've ridden lots. I think the difference is that the M6 is so much lighter and so efficient I can get an extra powerstroke [or two] in which is often the difference between success and failure on the crux of a techy climb. I'm also trying lines that before I didn't bother with and having some success.

    It's cool to see new lines and ride the old trails in a new way.

    I'm getting more confidence charging rocky downs. The big 650B front wheel is great for taming holes and transitions between rocks. The Hans Damfs are working well....lots of traction and they roll fast. Could be the carbon frame/Pike/carbon wheels, but the M6 is very precise which is nice for challenging lines that are skinny. I'm not getting knocked off my lines any more, but conditions are much drier than the ride I had issues on.

    The suspension seems pretty good so I've stopped messing with that. Thanks for the confirmation on settings SP.

    I did notice the 650B wheel/slack front end wasn't as agile in the super tight twisty sections as I'd like, but even my 26er Nomad suffers there. That's a reasonable compromise for how the M6 performs everywhere else.

    I do have an odd noise coming from my bike that I can't figure out. Might be my cables ziptied to the shock??? I've checked that everything is tight and I can't make it make the noise when I have the bike in the stand. It's not an awful noise, but I'm going to spend some time tracking it down this coming weekend.

    I'm headed to the North Shore in two weekends. I was thinking I'd stick with the Nomad because I am most familiar with it, but I changed my mind after this weekend's riding. I'm riding strong enough with the M6 to rock the shore and I don't want to keep swapping bikes so that I get in tune with the M6 as fast as possible.

    I've hung up the Nomad until the fall. I'm going to get the suspension serviced over the summer and have it ready for the sloppy winter here in the PNW. That will let me strip the suspension off the M6 and get it Avy'd as well as do a leisurely full tear down/rebuild of the M6. I'll take the M6 to Moab in Oct and I suspect we might end up in Sedona again at X'mas with M6s.



    My GF's enjoying her M6 as well. She had an unfortunate OTB incident [of course the one time she skips the elbow pads!] which I chalk up to the switch from weak brakes on the Nomad to new powerful stoppers. Don't worry the Mach 6 is fine!

    She's keen on some wider rubber as well - mostly for the loose downhill sections.

    She's started talking about custom tuning her suspension. She didn't MTB 4 years ago...I think I have created a monster....
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    BTW, just checked out your blog. Nice work. Now following. And thanks for the encouragement for starting my own. It's in its infancy but it is up and running now.
    Thanks KRob - I've got your RSS feed setup in my blog reader.

    We are going to hit up Gooseberry on the way to Pivot Fest in Oct. I've heard lots of good things and I want to expose my GF to as many different riding areas as I can to increase the MTB road trip stoke.

    I'm going to show her your Hurricane post to.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  31. #81
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    I do have an odd noise coming from my bike that I can't figure out. Might be my cables ziptied to the shock??? I've checked that everything is tight and I can't make it make the noise when I have the bike in the stand. It's not an awful noise, but I'm going to spend some time tracking it down this coming weekend.



    I'ts probably where the bottom part of the shock mounts to the yolk. Mine had the same problem and I did the "yolk isolator" trick and its been fine since. There is a link somewhere, just search Ripley yolk isolator. basically its just Stans tape wrapped around the bottom eyelet of the shock. I double wrapped it and used a hot very hot sharpened spoke to "clean out" the eyelet and just wedged it into the yolk.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by stokerslo View Post
    I do have an odd noise coming from my bike that I can't figure out. Might be my cables ziptied to the shock??? I've checked that everything is tight and I can't make it make the noise when I have the bike in the stand. It's not an awful noise, but I'm going to spend some time tracking it down this coming weekend.



    I'ts probably where the bottom part of the shock mounts to the yolk. Mine had the same problem and I did the "yolk isolator" trick and its been fine since. There is a link somewhere, just search Ripley yolk isolator. basically its just Stans tape wrapped around the bottom eyelet of the shock. I double wrapped it and used a hot very hot sharpened spoke to "clean out" the eyelet and just wedged it into the yolk.
    Thanks for the tip...I recall reading about that on MTBR. I will track it down.

    What did your yoke problem sound like?
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Thanks for the tip...I recall reading about that on MTBR. I will track it down.

    What did your yoke problem sound like?
    Kind of a click sound not really a squeak. Oh yea I also put plumbers tape around the threads of the screw that attatches the shock to the yolk or clevis as specialized calls it. If you stand on the side of the bike and sort of push on the pedals to one side it would make the sound. To test just loosin the screw that holds the yolk to the shock , and the sound will go away when you push on the pedals again. Do the yolk isolator trick and u should b good.

  34. #84
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    We have some folks in our extended riding group that needed some skills building time so we decided to session all the features on a few intermediate trails and then finish off with a ride to put the skills to good use.



    It was a slow ride, but is was good to see folks overcome their fears and gain confidence. [^^^^ this is not Brett Tippie! ]



    The time invested in coaching other riders pays off when you see them ripping trails they were walking lots on before.



    Our trails are feature rich so being able to ride tech efficiently is the difference between having fun and being pummelled. The tech is relentless...



    I'm posting only the Pivot pics here, but if you want to see more photos click here.



    The riding wasn't epic, but the forest was really pretty today with some nice light.



    After a few days of rain the trails were pretty wet. The Hans Damfs were awesome and my GF is eagerly awaiting hers so she can stop sliding around so much.



    This was a pretty bright day in the forest so you might be able to understand why we want brightly coloured bikes. It never gets lighter than this and mostly it's quite a bit darker!



    Going slow and riding the same feature several times is great for finding new fun lines that you miss when blasting through in a group.



    The Mach 6's worked great today other than my GF's tires. Both of us are getting used to the new rides and doing some of our best riding.



    That's nice to see so early in the season.



    For anyone who rides tight techy forests the M6 is a good choice with a short TT and short CS for compact wheelbase.



    It's an agile efficient climber and slack enough to pick your way down chunky lines.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  35. #85
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    Had one issue on yesterday's ride. I have the Float X setup when for most riding, but one area it's not awesome is on g-outs. I'm bottoming the shock fairly easily. Yet for everything else the bike feels great and I am already at the point where I would not describe the ride as plush.

    I'm going to bump the pressure 5psi to 160psi and see what that feels like.

    The DW Link suspension doesn't ramp up at the end of the stroke like my Nomad's VPP and the Float X also feels linear right up to the bottom out "Thunk!!".
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  36. #86
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    DW typically has a falling rate at the end to compensate for the ramp of air springs. Try reducing the volume of the air can slightly to get additional ramp at the end.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    DW typically has a falling rate at the end to compensate for the ramp of air springs. Try reducing the volume of the air can slightly to get additional ramp at the end.
    I'm going to try reducing the volume of the air can.

    When I spoke to Craig at Avalanche about the M6 he described it as "a low leverage linear system".
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  38. #88
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    Great ride today. 21 riders showed up for a club ride that has never seen more than 12 folks at once.

    Lot's of interest in our Pivots.

    I'm going to keep rolling with the extra 5psi in the shock. Seems like a good trade off between traction and bottoming out too easily.

    Very sloppy conditions. I guess winter isn't done with us just yet.

    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I'm going to try reducing the volume of the air can.

    When I spoke to Craig at Avalanche about the M6 he described it as "a low leverage linear system".
    How do you change the air pressure in the can?
    I've been gradually increasing the pressure in my shock by 5 PSI weekly. At about 185 pounds in gear (including full camelback) I'm currently at 190PSI in the shock. I have the rear brake & der cables tied to the top tube (using zip ties loosely attached to zip ties, to allow for free movement) so they won't push the O-ring off the shock body, but I still sometimes find the O-ring off the end of the shock.
    Our local club had a Bike festival a few weeks ago in Aptos (Post Office Jumps) and I spoke with one of the Fox Reps who was there, he said that spacers or something similar to what RockShox calls "Bottomless Tokens" could be added to the Float X to ramp up the bottom of the travel without messing with the small bump compliance or reducing travel. He also said that the shock has a Custom Tune ID on a sticker which Fox could use to identify if a particular shock has such spacer things installed or not. I checked mine out today and it says: Custom Tune ID: CNBF. I searched this number on Fox's website, but it just gives generic info on the Float X. I'm curious if all M6's come with the same tune, or if different sized frames have different tuned shocks. At any rate, I plan to look into adding a spacer or whatever he called it. Has anybody else messed with this?
    I will say that I recently added a token to my Pike 160 and that made a huge difference to the fork. This week I finally got the confidence to hit a log gap jump that I previously only felt comfortable hitting on the Nomad. Plus small bump compliance is awesome now. I got home from the ride and listed my Nomad for sale!

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by turfnsurf View Post
    How do you change the air pressure in the can?
    Add a spacer that takes up some of the air volume like the Pike tokens.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by turfnsurf View Post
    How do you change the air pressure in the can?
    I've been gradually increasing the pressure in my shock by 5 PSI weekly. At about 185 pounds in gear (including full camelback) I'm currently at 190PSI in the shock. I have the rear brake & der cables tied to the top tube (using zip ties loosely attached to zip ties, to allow for free movement) so they won't push the O-ring off the shock body, but I still sometimes find the O-ring off the end of the shock.
    Our local club had a Bike festival a few weeks ago in Aptos (Post Office Jumps) and I spoke with one of the Fox Reps who was there, he said that spacers or something similar to what RockShox calls "Bottomless Tokens" could be added to the Float X to ramp up the bottom of the travel without messing with the small bump compliance or reducing travel. He also said that the shock has a Custom Tune ID on a sticker which Fox could use to identify if a particular shock has such spacer things installed or not. I checked mine out today and it says: Custom Tune ID: CNBF. I searched this number on Fox's website, but it just gives generic info on the Float X. I'm curious if all M6's come with the same tune, or if different sized frames have different tuned shocks. At any rate, I plan to look into adding a spacer or whatever he called it. Has anybody else messed with this?
    I will say that I recently added a token to my Pike 160 and that made a huge difference to the fork. This week I finally got the confidence to hit a log gap jump that I previously only felt comfortable hitting on the Nomad. Plus small bump compliance is awesome now. I got home from the ride and listed my Nomad for sale!
    That is a lot of pressure in the rear shock. I am 200 lbs riding weight and only running 145 PSI. I do tend to use a little less pressure than most, but that is a huge swing considering how light you are. It does sound like you are hitting some big features though.

  42. #92
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    That's the funny thing, I don't hit big gaps or drops. I saw a post where you were up in my neck of the woods after Sea Otter riding UCSC, which is in my backyard. I hit a lot of stuff here but nothing huge. Not a big fan of large gaps and we don't have table tops here. A lot of our features have flat landings, which might be a factor.

    I'm gonna try to direct the Float X portion of the this thread here:Non-Fox Shock on Mach 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    That is a lot of pressure in the rear shock. I am 200 lbs riding weight and only running 145 PSI. I do tend to use a little less pressure than most, but that is a huge swing considering how light you are. It does sound like you are hitting some big features though.
    Last edited by turfnsurf; 04-21-2014 at 01:40 PM. Reason: Add link to Shock thread

  43. #93
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    Just a couple notes:

    #1 - My LBS is getting me the XX1/XO1 spacer from Pivot to prevent chain to dropout wear after I made them aware it exists. It still boggles my mind that you buy a $3K+ frame and have to hunt around for small parts like a direct mount dérailleur cover and an 11 speed cassette spacer. Folks that are spending over $3K on a frame are very likely going to install a 1x system and most will be XX1/XO1. I'm not sure what Pivot's thinking, but pissing off your customers is not the way to grow a boutique brand that commands top dollar. Bundle the small parts with the frames stock even if you have to up the cost a few bucks.

    #2 - My mechanic found a spacer kit for the Float X so I'm going to get it and reduce the volume of the shock for better end stroke ramp up. Enough folks are having issues with bottoming out their M6's that Pivot needs to look at reducing the air cans stock on the bigger frame sizes that will see heavier riders.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    Just a couple notes:

    #1 - My LBS is getting me the XX1/XO1 spacer from Pivot to prevent chain to dropout wear after I made them aware it exists. It still boggles my mind that you buy a $3K+ frame and have to hunt around for small parts like a direct mount dérailleur cover and an 11 speed cassette spacer. Folks that are spending over $3K on a frame are very likely going to install a 1x system and most will be XX1/XO1. I'm not sure what Pivot's thinking, but pissing off your customers is not the way to grow a boutique brand that commands top dollar. Bundle the small parts with the frames stock even if you have to up the cost a few bucks.
    Vik,

    Couple things also!

    1) Please explain the 11 speed spacer, are you saying it would go between the hub and the frame? Is the problem specific with the type of hub your using? Curious, because I've had all the other M6 creaks, cable routing, & other minor complaints, but this is new news to me.

    2) I appreciate the DM cover you sent. I haven't forgotten to send a pic with thanks, but the screws I ordered were from China. The damn things got lost in customs or some BS I'm told. That's what I get for not staying local. Anyway, replacements are on the way, as is my pic & thanks!

    3) Your bikes are looking awesome, I don't think I've seen anybody put as much love into their bikes as you. Even your Nomad looks sick. These MTBR Pivot forums have inspired me to take better care of my rides. Now if I could just learn to ride better

  45. #95
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    It varies by rear hub. Pivot have made a small washer which is bonded to the frame which they will send out for free if you call them. I have a feeling that as a running change we will see this incorporated into the frame long term since it would just be bonding a different axle mount and not a change to the carbon (read does not require a new mold)

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by turfnsurf View Post
    Vik,

    Couple things also!

    1) Please explain the 11 speed spacer, are you saying it would go between the hub and the frame? Is the problem specific with the type of hub your using? Curious, because I've had all the other M6 creaks, cable routing, & other minor complaints, but this is new news to me.

    2) I appreciate the DM cover you sent. I haven't forgotten to send a pic with thanks, but the screws I ordered were from China. The damn things got lost in customs or some BS I'm told. That's what I get for not staying local. Anyway, replacements are on the way, as is my pic & thanks!

    3) Your bikes are looking awesome, I don't think I've seen anybody put as much love into their bikes as you. Even your Nomad looks sick. These MTBR Pivot forums have inspired me to take better care of my rides. Now if I could just learn to ride better
    #1 - put your dérailleur onto the smallest cog in the rear [hardest gear]...have a look at the clearance between the chain and the inside of the dropout. If you are having clearance issues Pivot has a spacer to install that moves the dropout outwards slightly to generate some extra clearance. If you have enough clearance as is just ignore.

    My understanding so far is that this is just an issue with XX1/XO1 bikes. Also my GF's complete XO1 build came with the spacer installed so probably only a problem if you bought a frame/shock.

    #2 - No worries at all. I found a bolt in my spares bin that worked! #lucky

    #3 - Hahaha.....thanks We spend so much time mountain biking that tweaking/pimping our bikes seems normal. I guess that's what folks without kids do with all their free time! The Nomad is actually pretty beat up. but it still looks good from 5' away...one of the benefits of only seeing bikes in photos is you don't see all the minor damage.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  47. #97
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    Vik, what Q factor did you get for your crank? I was going to order a 168 since I figured that would be better for a bigger rider, but was told I needed a 156 due to possible chain rub. Once I put everything together, it made sense and saw the potential problem. I have a Hope Hub with a 156Q and don't seem to have any chain rub yet.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    Vik, what Q factor did you get for your crank? I was going to order a 168 since I figured that would be better for a bigger rider, but was told I needed a 156 due to possible chain rub. Once I put everything together, it made sense and saw the potential problem. I have a Hope Hub with a 156Q and don't seem to have any chain rub yet.
    I haven't measured my Q-factor. I have Race Face Next SL cranks and I don't think there are any options for different Q-factors.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  49. #99
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    Been getting in some great riding lately. Doing the best climbing I've ever done. Charging up techy sections I never would have bothered with before.

    The lightweight, precise steering, short wheelbase and DW link suspension is a killer combo.



    My GF is getting the hang of her M6 and enjoying it a lot. We've had a hard time getting her some Hans Damfs, but I think we got 'em licked and she'll be rocking once she gets them and is riding with some serious traction.



    I'm pretty satisfied with the bike at the moment. The suspension is on the firm side, but I'm going to wait until I get those Float X volume spacers to mess with it. I'd rather have the suspension a bit firm and balanced. Once I get the Float X to ramp up at the end of the stroke I'll try softening both ends a bit at a time until I am happy.



    I noticed another spot the internal cables are rubbing [see white rub mark] so I threw some tape on the yoke to prevent more wear.

    I've gotta say the internal cable routing on the M6 is an embarrassment. It's beyond useless. **shakes head**

    First excuse I have to rerun the cables I will pull them and run them as shown below.



    I found some stick on cable guides I hope will be secure enough to work so I can avoid the ugly zipties.



    If you are riding someplace wet and want a front fender with great coverage try one of these Canadian Shields. Love it so far...



    Keep them Pivots rolling...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  50. #100
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    Vik I finally got my routing dialed. You have to have the cables come out of the internal routing on the same side as they mount on the yoke and then they should be tight, but not stretched when the suspension is fully extended. I am actually very satisfied with it now and I don't even have the standoff mounted for the rear brake. It also stopped rubbing on the rear shock by the yoke as well. My travel has been perfect with 145 PSI (200 lb rider weight with camelback etc). That is including the 3-5' drops we were hitting today. I was using 99% of the travel without knocking the o-ring off the shaft.

    Also, if you are rubbing the yoke there it might be the cables knocking the o-ring off and not the fact you are using all of the travel.

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