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  1. #1
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    thoughts on future bike setup: AM content

    Guessing that the Pivot DH frame weight will be somewhere around 8.5-9lbs (with rear shock) Im figuring Im not gaining to much weight over my 07 Kona Coiler (frame and coil shock size Large weighed 9lbs). I currently ride my Coiler with a single ring setup and have no issues making any climbs in Cal areas I ride in, typically So Cal and up around Tahoe/Auburn area.


    Figured to get some ideas & thoughts on the build. I want to eventually build up a set of Saint hubs with Mavic Ex823 UST rims.


    Bike setup: Pivot Phoenix DH
    * Frame Size & Color: large - black/green???(NS)
    * Rear Shock: Fox DHX RC4 Ti Spring
    * Fork: Totem Coil (Solo Air)
    * Brakes: Saints or Magura Louise
    * Shifter: Saint
    * Cranks: Truvativ Descendant or Holzfellers
    * Chainguide: E13 SRS+
    * Rear Derailleur: Saint SS
    * Pedals: Shimano PD-M647
    * Stem: Thomson X4 50mm
    * Handlebar: Salsa Whammy bar
    * Seatpost: Gravity Dropper 5"
    * Saddle: WTB pure or Devo
    * Bottom Bracket: GXP
    * Chainring: E13 36 or 38t
    * Cassette: Shimano 11-34
    * Headset: Cane Creek Angleset set to 1.5- (66.5*)
    * Grips: Oury Lock On
    * Front Tire: WTB Weirwolf FR LT or WTB Wolverine 2.2
    * Front Rim: Azonic Outlaw w/ Stans
    * Front Hub: Azonic
    * Rear Tire: WTB Weirwolf FR LT or WTB Wolverine 2.2
    * Rear Rim: Azonic Outlaw w/ Stans
    * Rear Hub: Azonic

    Thought/Comment welcome and please dont hold back Im prepared to get flamed for some of my ideas! Thanks.
    Guy.Ford

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  2. #2
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    I'm a big fan of the Saint stuff so those brakes get my vote. May as well go for the cranks too while you're at it. I'm running a 36t ring which gives me plenty of speed but still lets me climb quite well. The fork and angleset should get you into a good range for the type of riding you described (would be 65.5 though, stock HTA is 64.0). As for color, we got the new sets of blue stickers and I'm really digging them. The green is pretty sweet too though....
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  3. #3
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    I like the look of that build! I've been thinking of doing something similar with the Phoenix when it hits Aus, and building it with a Totem Air & possibly Air rear shock - the trails in Aus (unless you're racing) don't really justify or requrie a triple clamp fork, and having the single crowns saves weight & allows for a more "trail" friendly bike!

    That leads me to my next question, this one's for Ken... I've seen mentioned over and over again the 1.5" indexed HT, allowing head angle adjustments. Are you able to adjust the head angle when using a fork with a 1.5" steerer (such as the Totem Air 1.5")? And how easy is it to adjust the headangle? Is it something I'll be able to do at home before I take it out for a ride, to tweak it for different trails?

    Sorry for the slight thread de-rail Good luck with you're build, I can't wait to see some photos once it's done!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isildur
    That leads me to my next question, this one's for Ken... I've seen mentioned over and over again the 1.5" indexed HT, allowing head angle adjustments. Are you able to adjust the head angle when using a fork with a 1.5" steerer (such as the Totem Air 1.5")? And how easy is it to adjust the headangle? Is it something I'll be able to do at home before I take it out for a ride, to tweak it for different trails?

    Sorry for the slight thread de-rail Good luck with you're build, I can't wait to see some photos once it's done!
    Wont work, the Angle Set only works with 1 1/8" steerers.
    Guy.Ford

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    I'm a big fan of the Saint stuff so those brakes get my vote. May as well go for the cranks too while you're at it. I'm running a 36t ring which gives me plenty of speed but still lets me climb quite well. The fork and angleset should get you into a good range for the type of riding you described (would be 65.5 though, stock HTA is 64.0). As for color, we got the new sets of blue stickers and I'm really digging them. The green is pretty sweet too though....

    Yeah Im a big fan of the Saint stuff, the only reason I chose to steer clear of the Saint cranks is weight, those are some portly beasts.

    On my coiler I ran Stylos without any issues, so Im not sure I need super beefy cranks. Ive also been thinking about the Hive cranks too, but not sure they offer a 83mm BB, have to look more.

    Thanks for the comments and correction on HA, much appreciated.
    Guy.Ford

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  6. #6
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    i know it all depends on your priorities and riding style, but you could shed some weight with a different rim/hub combo assuming you are talking about having this as a trail bike as well? Or have 2 seperate wheelsets depending on the ride/climbing.

    I rocked a GDropper for a few years. I still have it, but have not run it on my FB, my thinking has shifted to a adjustable seat post that is more adjustable through the complete range. So I can keep it pedally and drop it only 1" vs the entire 4" (on the one I had). Unless the new GDs are this way, i have not kept up.
    COMBA fan boy card holder #1.

  7. #7
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    GD now comes in a version that allows a 1 in drop or 5 inch drop. There's something appealing about a mechanical stop for the post height after struggling with the joplin that never seems to go to the same place twice.

    Re the angleset, to adjust it seems you have to remove the bottom cup and put in a different one (or turn it around for -1.5 instead of +1.5). To me its not something I'd want to do a lot to save on head tube wear and tear.

    Guy what about formula one brakes and a vivid air? Might save a pound or two right there if you're looking to keep the weight down.

  8. #8
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    Don't you think that seat tube angle is gonna be a bit too slack for climbing?

    Where do you expect it to be with the Totem?
    Bad rep!!! That's right SON!!

  9. #9
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    Isildur; The Angleset comes with 2 Zero deg cups plus a .5 & 1.5 cup which you set to either + or - to adjust the angle. Doing this requires you to remove the cup so it's not something you'd want to do very often. The normal setup is to install one of the Zero deg cups in the lower and use the upper for adjusting. The full 1.5 steer tube doesn't allow room inside the head tube for the adjustment.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  10. #10
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    How about sone pimping wheels to mach the frame. Saint Cranks are not that heavy once you remove the steel granny ring and bolts.

    2.2 tires, NOT!
    beaver hunt

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    Isildur; The Angleset comes with 2 Zero deg cups plus a .5 & 1.5 cup which you set to either + or - to adjust the angle. Doing this requires you to remove the cup so it's not something you'd want to do very often. The normal setup is to install one of the Zero deg cups in the lower and use the upper for adjusting. The full 1.5 steer tube doesn't allow room inside the head tube for the adjustment.
    Cheers for the info Ken. Chances are I'll end up going the 1.5" Totem when I do build mine, as the benefits (to me) of the Air Totem outweigh the need for adjustability. Thanks again!

  12. #12
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    Drydirtrider: I am planning using it for AM riding not sure how that pertains to XC per se, but I get your point. Im pretty good with the Outlaws they aren't that bad if run tubeless with Stans.

    Ansible: I agree with the GD, I love the fact they have a 5" model and can be had in any drop in between so could have 5-2 or 5-3. Im trying to stick to mineral oil brakes and coil rear, def don't mind air forks though. Thx.

    ToHell: im not to concerned, most of my climbing is done standing and pedaling on flats/small won't be so bad. Most reviewers have given it great props for pedalability.

    Im figuring the Totem to put it pretty cloes to the Fox 40 given the similiar axle to crowns - totem=565 and fox=571.

    Snowdrifter: I was basing my comparisons off the single ring crank arms only, I love me some Saints but.

    No 2.2's? It will work for its intended application, I will have some bigger beefs for the lift days but for daily riding the 2.2's will work amazing.

    Thanks all keep the thoughts and ideas coming. Def some things to check out and think about.
    Guy.Ford

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isildur
    Cheers for the info Ken. Chances are I'll end up going the 1.5" Totem when I do build mine, as the benefits (to me) of the Air Totem outweigh the need for adjustability. Thanks again!

    Well you should get a pretty penny for the Angle Set, should help offset the need for new headset. =oD
    Guy.Ford

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  14. #14
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    If you want to go Mineral Oil, I really like my saints. Their only issue is the pistons get sticky and need a clean and lube kinda sorta often compared to Hayes where I've never had that happen.

    I've had bad luck with Sram cranks but if you haven't, maybe they are a good way to go for you. You need 83mm for that frame, right? Why not the new Hive/E13 cranks? They look purdy.

    Chainguide: The Straitline silentguide is awesome. Believe it dropnzone in Bellingham will sell them to you with a different color than Kawasaki green.

    On the wheels, if greenfishadventuresports.com or however you spell it has them still they were selling 440 Magura hubed 823 wheels for $349.....

    Can't wait to see the build.
    "It looks flexy"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    If you want to go Mineral Oil, I really like my saints. Their only issue is the pistons get sticky and need a clean and lube kinda sorta often compared to Hayes where I've never had that happen.

    I've had bad luck with Sram cranks but if you haven't, maybe they are a good way to go for you. You need 83mm for that frame, right? Why not the new Hive/E13 cranks? They look purdy.

    Chainguide: The Straitline silentguide is awesome. Believe it dropnzone in Bellingham will sell them to you with a different color than Kawasaki green.

    On the wheels, if greenfishadventuresports.com or however you spell it has them still they were selling 440 Magura hubed 823 wheels for $349.....

    Can't wait to see the build.
    Yeah Ive been using older Saints for years without issue and before that had a couple pairs of the Deores, never had 1 issue. My Hayes brakes, old purples and HFX HD, always seemed to be trouble. Plus not a fan of DOT in general.

    Been on Truvativ cranks for years and never had an issue, but I agree the Hive's have def caught my eye and Im keeping eyes peeled for a review, got plenty of time to change my mind since frame not available till Jan.

    Im pretty sold on the E13 guides, used to be an MRP fanboy, but I like the adjustment of the E13 stuff, plus not a fan of the Straitline Alu bash or Alu bash in general.

    Big thanks for the heads up on the wheelset, gonna have to check it out!!!!! that just might be the ticket depending on rear hub config (does it come in 12x150??). EDIT: Checked the site, appears they are a 135x10 QR. Thanks though, I will keep my eyes peeled to the site in case anything new comes up.

    Thanks me too, Im waiting for the socal rep to get his frame in so I can weigh it, nice living right next door!
    Last edited by Guy.Ford; 10-20-2010 at 08:06 AM.
    Guy.Ford

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  16. #16
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    You can change the 440 hubs to 12 x 150, unless I made that up Call DT. I'm 99% sure you can switch them from QR rear to 12x150.
    "It looks flexy"

  17. #17
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    Tried out the TALAS 180 today...

    And it rocked! Didn't get a full speed run in since we ran out of daylight but from what I rode I'm very happy with the performance.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails thoughts on future bike setup: AM content-phx1web.jpg  

    thoughts on future bike setup: AM content-phx2web.jpg  

    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    You can change the 440 hubs to 12 x 150, unless I made that up Call DT. I'm 99% sure you can switch them from QR rear to 12x150.
    Quite possible they can be changed to a 12mm axle but issue still is the 135mm spacing.
    Guy.Ford

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    And it rocked! Didn't get a full speed run in since we ran out of daylight but from what I rode I'm very happy with the performance.
    D@mn that looks awesome with the 180 on front!!!

    Ken would you happen to know the weight of the bike as built or maybe frame? Thx
    Guy.Ford

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  20. #20
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    My bike varies a bit since I like to swap out stuff all the time. Right now it's at 39.4 lbs with that fork, pedals included (tires are 2.5 dual ply Excavators with DH tubes btw...). The fork really feels good on there, I'm gonna try to get in a ride tomorrow to get some more time on it.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  21. #21
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    Kepp us updated! That 180 Talas turns the bike into a DH/heavy AM rig!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    My bike varies a bit since I like to swap out stuff all the time. Right now it's at 39.4 lbs with that fork, pedals included (tires are 2.5 dual ply Excavators with DH tubes btw...). The fork really feels good on there, I'm gonna try to get in a ride tomorrow to get some more time on it.
    Is that a Large? Do you do a lot of out of saddle climbing, hows the bob?

    Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it, I can def see places I could save weight and think this is totally doable for an AM machine.
    Guy.Ford

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  23. #23
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    Mine's a Medium frame. I do a fair amount of out of saddle climbing due to the gearing (and lack of seat height). The TALAS really makes climbing easier though. The 40 just wasn't designed with that in mind
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  24. #24
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    I'd call first, but this says you can get it even in that stupid new 142mm width. I bought these hubs with the idea that if Pivot would listen to use weirdo mtbr people they might make a through axle rear tri for the firebird that uses the Phoenix rear dropouts

    http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Comp...-freeride.aspx



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    440 freeride thru axle 110 mm / 20 mm 270 g IS (6-holes) -

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    440 freeride thru bolt 135 mm / 10 mm 387 g (incl. RWS) IS (6-holes) RWS thru bolt

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    440 freeride thru axle 135 mm / 12 mm 311 g IS (6-holes) -

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    440 freeride thru axle 142 mm / 12 mm 315 g IS (6-holes) -

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    440 freeride thru axle 150 mm / 12 mm 369 g IS (6-holes)
    "It looks flexy"

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay
    I'd call first, but this says you can get it even in that stupid new 142mm width.
    Isn't the 142mm the same hub as 135mm with different end caps? I don't see why that is so hard to deal with for some people.
    Extreme stationary biker.

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