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  1. #1
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    RS Vivid Air shock on M5.7?

    Hi ppl

    Was wondering if a RS Vivid Air would fit onto a Small size March 5.7. And which compression tune I should order....or is the Vivid air even recommended in the first place due to the leverage ratio demands of the Dw link not matching any of the compression tunes offered by RS...

    Thanks!

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    Are you talking about the big DH shock? I think that would be a very tight fit, it just barely clears on the Phoenix. Not sure about the tuning compatibility either. We use a light tune on the Fox shocks but I don't know how that compares with RS's tuning...
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    Im pretty sure even if it did fit, Pivot would advise against it and possibly even go so far as to tell you it will void your warranty if you used it. Pivot does not advise or support the use of any other shock on there bikes other than what is provided, wihich is Fox, doing so will void your warranty. Ive looked into and inquired about the use of different shocks for a couple of Pivots bikes and always been told, they dont recommend or support anything other than Fox.

    Oh and thats the other thing, know one Ive talked to will provide you with any tuning info for other shocks either so your kind of on your own there. Unless your a team rider it seems.
    Last edited by Guy.Ford; 04-23-2011 at 04:56 PM.
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    yup i was talking abt the DH rear shock that RS introduced recently......dang had a feeling that a Vivid Air wouldn't work....

    anyway the main reason why i was interested in it was due to fact that my next upgrade for the M5.7 would be replacing the stock Float 140 with a 160/150 Coil fork (i miss the feel of a coil ). I'm not saying that the rear shock is inadequate......those guys at pivot did a fantastic job tuning the stock rp23 such that it feels really controlled when the bike is brought up to speed. But i cant get the nagging thought out of my head that even then, the rear end feels a little 'jarring' on bumps for lack of a better word, almost as if the shock itself is resisting compression on hitting bumps.

    So since in abt a month so so i'll be switching to a coil front (possibly lyric or Mazzo 55 with travel adjust), i figured that i might as well swap the rear shock for something that might improve the ride experience at the same time ( i'm pretty sure that i can't put a coil shock on a M5.7 for lack of space).

    At present I've ordered a set of enduro needle bearings which is on its way over, as well as gng to try running lower pressure tubeless. Any other stuff/suggestions i can try that might work for me? Well....anything short of switching bike as i like my M5.7 too much

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    Are you talking about the big DH shock? I think that would be a very tight fit, it just barely clears on the Phoenix. Not sure about the tuning compatibility either. We use a light tune on the Fox shocks but I don't know how that compares with RS's tuning...

    Ken,... how about this..? Would that be ok ? ..
    Certainly the factory valving for compression and rebound may not intended for M5.7 but if it's still within tuning range..., just wonder.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails RS Vivid Air shock on M5.7?-elka-mach-5.7.jpg  

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    No idea there either but I do know you'll want the correct tuning no matter what shock you try. That's why we don't recommend going with anything other than the supplied Fox (we work closely with them and the shocks are valved specifically for each bike...). Maybe call for clarification?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by softailteamrider
    Ken,... how about this..? Would that be ok ? ..
    Certainly the factory valving for compression and rebound may not intended for M5.7 but if it's still within tuning range..., just wonder.

    Not going to work, like Ken mentioned you NEED the correct tuning, trust me and even then things can go badly. Ive seen what happens when you do not have the right tune and its not pretty, plus it voids the warranty which your going to need if your shock isnt tuned right. Heck even with the right tune some times things can go wrong, but that another story and nothing for us mortals to be worried about.

    Oh and BTW, not to keep raining on your parade but that 160 fork your planning on, also going to void your warranty but at least it wont break anything.

    Something tells me you bough the wrong bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford
    Not going to work, ....
    Fair enough. I am just exploring the possibility having the access to set up the bike with different component (which was meant for another bike anyway). I am still fiddling the stock set up anyway and getting better to like it more.. .
    Something telling me it would work somehow, someday.., given I can get the right spring size for my 135 lbs light a**.
    Hey I can be a guinea pig and let you all know how's it feel.

    [QUOTE=Oh and BTW, not to keep raining on your parade but that 160 fork your planning on, [/QUOTE]

    Where did you read I am gonna fit the 160 fork..? You gave me another insight now..

    [QUOTE=Something tells me you bough the wrong bike.[/QUOTE]

    The problem with riding too many different type of bike was stereotyping to what is in your memory. But I assure you it is fun to have different options outside the manufacturing catalogue listing. But you're right, I would be on my own taking that route. On the other side, I haven't got the chance to use the warranty claim, fortunately. I might be riding not hard enough.
    Last edited by softailteamrider; 04-24-2011 at 08:54 PM.
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  9. #9
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    I'd see about one of those sweet new Kashima coated shocks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford
    Not going to work, like Ken mentioned you NEED the correct tuning, trust me and even then things can go badly. Ive seen what happens when you do not have the right tune and its not pretty, plus it voids the warranty which your going to need if your shock isnt tuned right. Heck even with the right tune some times things can go wrong, but that another story and nothing for us mortals to be worried about.

    Oh and BTW, not to keep raining on your parade but that 160 fork your planning on, also going to void your warranty but at least it wont break anything.

    Something tells me you bough the wrong bike.

    yup i agreed that 2 main issues with regards to the rear shock would be to fit the darn thing thing in and then the tune itself.....well maybe i'll keep exploring and see if the 'new' kashima coating shock and needle bearings is sufficienft makes enuff of a difference.

    But as for the 160 fork....i recal; that there was a thread abt a few months back...apparently the official reply was that 1) it was highly not recommended as it would considerably slow down steering which some of the testers felt was not optimal for the bike BUT 2) it would NOT void the warranty as the headtube holds roughly the same strength as that of the firebird, rather it was the act of trying to use the bike as a freeride bike that would spoil the warrenty.

    With that said, my primary concern now if i switch to a longer travel fork is 1) the change in angle (which can be modified with an angleset if it is available for the M5.7) and 2) the increase in BB height. Currently i'm riding with a 90mm stem that is 6cm (3 spacers) above the top of the headtube exit, so i figured that given the amt of steerer space i was using i had room to 'jack up' the travel and raise front of the bike. And even if i do not like the settings, i could always reduce the travel and stil lgain an advantage in having BOTH HSC and LSC compression in the new fork as compared to having ONLY LSC in the stock Fox Float140.

    But are there any other issues that i shd be aware of before i pull the trigger on it? I'd admit that there are still prob still a ton of issues that i have not considered yet, and some of them could potentially be crucial at this moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rei_Ikari
    yup i agreed that 2 main issues with regards to the rear shock would be to fit the ...
    Rei, what is the current suspension trait (of Fox RP23 BV) you're not happy with or want to improve with RS Vivid? (or any other shock for that matter).
    I wonder if any other shock will match the the DW Link characteristic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by softailteamrider
    Fair enough. I am just exploring the possibility having the access to set up the bike with different component (which was meant for another bike anyway). I am still fiddling the stock set up anyway and getting better to like it more.. .
    Something telling me it would work somehow, someday.., given I can get the right spring size for my 135 lbs light a**.
    Hey I can be a guinea pig and let you all know how's it feel.
    Ive already seen what happens when riders guinea pig Pivot bikes with different shocks, which is why I mentioned the warranty. Believe me, I wish there were more options available, I would love the idea of running a Vivid Air on a Firebird or Phoenix. Good luck, be safe.


    Quote Originally Posted by softailteamrider
    Where did you read I am gonna fit the 160 fork..? You gave me another insight now..
    My bad I missed that you hijacked the OP's thread, my apologies. My reading comprehension lacks sometimes.


    Quote Originally Posted by softailteamrider
    The problem with riding too many different type of bike was stereotyping to what is in your memory. But I assure you it is fun to have different options outside the manufacturing catalogue listing. But you're right, I would be on my own taking that route. On the other side, I haven't got the chance to use the warranty claim, fortunately. I might be riding not hard enough.
    Meh, believe me when I say you dont have to be riding too hard for bad things to happen. I have a friend who rode a firebird with a dif custom tuned (for DW link) shock other than the Fox and he damaged his frame off a relatively mellow jump. So be wary messing with other shocks on these bikes, the shock tune on these bikes is super important.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rei_Ikari
    But as for the 160 fork....i recal; that there was a thread abt a few months back...apparently the official reply was that 1) it was highly not recommended as it would considerably slow down steering which some of the testers felt was not optimal for the bike BUT 2) it would NOT void the warranty as the headtube holds roughly the same strength as that of the firebird, rather it was the act of trying to use the bike as a freeride bike that would spoil the warrenty.

    from the horses mouth...
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Cocalis | President/CEO, Pivot Cycles/BH USA LLC.
    From a warranty standpoint, running a 160mm travel fork in and of itself will not automatically void the warranty. However, the warranty on ours and any other manufacturer’s frames is there to protect against manufacturing defects. Trying to turn the 5.7 into a park bike or taking it into the realm of long travel trail is outside of its intended use.
    Sounds very familiar to what you describe wanting, esp when you consider your asking about putting a DH air shock on your 5.7. Good luck.
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    hmm i guess i shd clarify the rationale or factors that are motivating my decisions.

    The rationale for the switch away from the current RP23BV is the lack of that 'buttery' feel of a coil rear that my friend's nomad has. Granted both are very different bikes and hence to expect similar suspension feel would only be naive of me, but i feel that my current M5.7 lack of small bump compliance is an inherent trait of air shocks, which im hoping a coil (or the vivid air) would help. Failing which i would simply have to resort to the needle bearing/kashima shock upgrade. Leverage ratio and shock tuning, IMO take precedence over any changes and i firmly agree that those 2 shd never be compromised for any thing else...

    As for the front, the main reason for a lyrik/mazzo 55/Fox 36 is my current fork's lack of HSC tuning. Granted that the travel could be lowered if it doesnt work out, and the Axle-Crown length isnt too far off frm the current set up, the weight penalty is something i feel is justified for the feel of a coil in the front.

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    [QUOTE=
    My bad I missed that you hijacked the OP's thread, my apologies. My reading comprehension lacks sometimes. [/QUOTE]

    Yes I owe an apology to the OP of hijacking his thread..
    But to the OP points, I had the same question on whether a coil over would give better ride feel than current shock.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rei_Ikari
    hmm i guess i shd clarify the rationale or factors that are motivating my decisions.

    The rationale for the switch away from the current RP23BV is the lack of that 'buttery' feel of a coil rear that my friend's nomad has. Granted both are very different bikes and hence to expect similar suspension feel would only be naive of me, but i feel that my current M5.7 lack of small bump compliance is an inherent trait of air shocks, which im hoping a coil (or the vivid air) would help. Failing which i would simply have to resort to the needle bearing/kashima shock upgrade. Leverage ratio and shock tuning, IMO take precedence over any changes and i firmly agree that those 2 shd never be compromised for any thing else...

    As for the front, the main reason for a lyrik/mazzo 55/Fox 36 is my current fork's lack of HSC tuning. Granted that the travel could be lowered if it doesnt work out, and the Axle-Crown length isnt too far off frm the current set up, the weight penalty is something i feel is justified for the feel of a coil in the front.

    Yeah Im with you on the coil shock feel, I wouldnt purchase a bike I couldnt put a coil shock on. Im sure you could get a Fox RC4 to fit the 5.7 and there wouldnt be any issue with that as Fox has the tuning info for the DW.
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    you're kidding on the RC4 aren't u ......the reason i suggested the vivid air was because i was sure that i can't squeeze a coil into the frame....hmmmm but now that you've mentioned it....

    @Ken: maybe u can contribute to this and give a verdict? If a RC4 coil CAN really fit onto my SMALL M5.7, then this would seriously be Christmas coming early for me once my exams are over in 5 days time

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    What about sending your stock rp23 to Push?

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    Believe me that thought has crossed my mind....but no seeing as Push doesnt entertain non-US based customers..with good reasons that i can agree with. Imagine having to spend money on BOTH shipping and servicing fees every year since u can't service it at the local FOX distributor.

    so now my only solution.....enduro needle bearing and the new kashima RP23....Although frankly the 'shiny shiny' factor of the 2012 Rp23 was prob reason enuff

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    Wow, an RC4 on a Mach 5.7. That's something I haven't considered I'd have to ask Chris about running something like that on the bike. I really have no idea how those bikes would respond with a coil, not even sure we've ever run one like that...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rei_Ikari
    Believe me that thought has crossed my mind....but no seeing as Push doesnt entertain non-US based customers..with good reasons that i can agree with. Imagine having to spend money on BOTH shipping and servicing fees every year since u can't service it at the local FOX distributor.

    so now my only solution.....enduro needle bearing and the new kashima RP23....Although frankly the 'shiny shiny' factor of the 2012 Rp23 was prob reason enuff
    Maybe you can find another shock tuner in your location as criteria for shock selection. I was referred to this guy (http://www.eclipsesports.net/) if I need to revalve my rear shock to match my bike suspension.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senor StrongBad
    What about sending your stock rp23 to Push?

    I would follow along on this little drama and see how the whole PUSH tune your Pivot shock goes, then decide...
    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...-firebird.html
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    if thats the issue, I've actually sent an email to Pivot in the past regarding aftermarket shocks tuning (Push, Fox Pro Tune). I was pleasantly surprised that it was Chris himself who actually replied to the email due to the technical specificity of the question. I will not paste the entire email reply here as im not sure if its polite to do so w/o asking for the other party's consent, but in essence here's the main points with regards to this issue;

    1) he seems to have a favourable impression for PUSH rebuilds and tune BUT
    2) FOX's BV tech pretty much render's a switch to PUSH's custom tune a unrecommended move due to the advantages that BV has.
    3) The only tune he recommends is increasing the BV pressure if you feel the current tuning is too 'mushy' and want to achieve a more XC feel (which i feel u shd buy a M5 if u wanted that in the first place)

    So yup thats more or less it, but take note this was his reply 2 months back.Things may have changed by now. Anyway I'm keeping my fingers crossed in the possibility of a RC4 for my M5.7, well lets see what Ken brings back when he does get the chance to ask Chris himself *bounces about on seat in anticipation *

    Cheers
    Rei

    P.S.: Ken: could you do me a favor and help me tell Chris that the email he sent me regarding tuning my shock cleared up lots of questions i had regarding the technical aspects of how a shock works. Im not sure if he remembers my email, but wanted to say thanks anyway. Great bunch of ppl working at Pivot yea.. Its the little things like that which really makes a rider proud to own his bike

  24. #24
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    FWIW - I would like a coil on my Mach 5.7 -
    I do not own a M5.7 yet just the M5 but when I do buy one I want it with a coil and painted High Gloss black with Yellow decals and a TA in the back.

    Is there an advantage to having an the HV sleeve for heavier riders 200+lbs. I have been thinking about switching to the standard sleeve and having it push'd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy.Ford
    I would follow along on this little drama and see how the whole PUSH tune your Pivot shock goes, then decide...
    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...-firebird.html
    This whole linked thread doesn't make sense to me. You can put an RC4 on there and personally mess up your settings but not another air shock!?!??! That sounds bogus to me.
    "It looks flexy"

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