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  1. #1
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    Paging Ken Bennett please...

    Paging Ken Bennett please...

    Iím about to upgrade the rear shock on my í12 Firebird to the CCDBA - the updated carbon rocker is waiting for me at the shop. Iím just not sure which way to go on the air can size. (I understand that since í12 they all have hi - flow inner something or other, but Iím referring to the outer air can here.)

    I remember reading a while back that you made the upgrade to the CCDBA yourself and was wondering if you could enlighten me with whether youíre running the extra volume air can or not. Iím about 25# heavier than you. From what Iíve read, the Firebirdís suspension is quite progressive, so conventional wisdom would dictate the larger, extra volume air can to help make the overall feel more linear.

    Iím afraid, though, that maybe this info is outdated, and I would hate to make
    such an expensive purchase only to have to sell it at a loss, so please enlighten me on the best course of action. Any info at all is appreciated, thanks.

  2. #2
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    I did in fact have that shock on my bike for quite a while and it was/is amazing! The shock doesn't have any specific notation as to the air can sizing but the OD of the can is 57mm. Looking at this ad on Jenson it does appear to be the XV unit though. I checked the Cane Creek website and they show it on their fit chart but recommend calling for specifics before ordering. Cane Creek DB Air XV Can > Components > Frames, Forks and Suspension > Rear Shock Parts | Jenson USA
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  3. #3
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    Thanks a bunch , Ken. Do you remember the model year and whether you had the XV air can or not ? I seem to be getting conflicting info about whether I should purchase one with the XV air can or not. For ex., Universal Cycles says the XV air can is recommended for ďhighly progressiveĒ leverage ratios, but Iím not sure whether the Firebird falls into the ďhighlyÖ.Ē category. I know itís progressive, but maybe the XV air can would be overkill. Thanks, again.

  4. #4
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    I don't know the model year but I got the shock in the summer of 2013. I looked at the box and the only numbers are the "215/63" on there and on the bag of air volume reducers. Mine is a sample shock they sent us to verify their baseline settings for the bike compared to the stock Fox shock (the settings were spot on btw). I just got it with instructions to go out and put some serious miles on it!
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  5. #5
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    Well, I think I finally got it sorted now. Came across some threads where peeps were putting the cdba on their mojo HDs. Apparently , you donít need the XV air can after all. The extra volume was meant to help tune vpp type systems, according to the press release, very progressive systems. (Although vpp goes from regressive to progressive.)
    So I need to change my order from the XV air can to the regular can now, as I donít think the Firebird is hugely different from the mojo HD.
    Just out of curiosity, are you back on a Fox product now ? Iíve heard Pivot only tests their bikes for Fox shocks. Thanks again for the help.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by le_buzz View Post
    Iíve heard Pivot only tests their bikes for Fox shocks.
    Mistake, if true. So many better offerings out there. I still remember _dw prattling away in here about how it wasn't recommended to use the DHX Air on that frame because the RP23 was more than capable. You sure you don't want to sell that CCDB and go the RP23 route?
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  7. #7
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    We do all of our suspension testing with Fox so we can get the tuning dialed on but we do test other shocks to make sure there won't be any compatibility issues if someone decides to buy an aftermarket unit. I switched over to a Mach 5.7 this year and am running the FloatX and Float34CTD suspension on that bike.No complaints at all! I did quite a bit of back to back comparisons with the FloatX and CCDB (carried the shock in my pack and switched mid-ride several times) and the FloatX is very close in performance. The CCDB has the edge with it's ability to be tuned exactly how you want it, which is great if you know how to get it there but a bit daunting for a lot of riders that just want to "set and forget".
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    We do all of our suspension testing with Fox so we can get the tuning dialed on but we do test other shocks to make sure there won't be any compatibility issues if someone decides to buy an aftermarket unit.
    Good, how a bike should ride is a matter of opinion .
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  9. #9
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    You know, i bought the DHX Air in í12 after a few months on the stock p23 on advice from Pivot (harsh riding and heating up on the chancery S. AZ trails with the rp23).

    Pivot advised me that the DHX Air was the way to go due to its larger air can and adjustability. I had to have it warrantied by Fox after about a year due to excessive oil leakage, and when they returned it I was told it was now tuned for the Firebird. Great. It was a big improvement, for a while anyway, although it still felt a bit lacking in successive hsc events.

    The problem now is, I canít keep enough air (for my weight anyway) in the remote chamber (I try to keep it around 170 - 190 psi) and I canít get the sag to be much less than 45 %. While this would seriously performance on most other bikes, the Firebird still manages to ride acceptably well in spite of this. I just want to get
    that extra performance that a well tuned shock will give. Plus i have some doubts about how long itís going to stay reasonably acceptable.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by le_buzz View Post
    You know, i bought the DHX Air in í12 after a few months on the stock p23 on advice from Pivot (harsh riding and heating up on the chancery S. AZ trails with the rp23).

    Pivot advised me that the DHX Air was the way to go due to its larger air can and adjustability. I had to have it warrantied by Fox after about a year due to excessive oil leakage, and when they returned it I was told it was now tuned for the Firebird. Great. It was a big improvement, for a while anyway, although it still felt a bit lacking in successive hsc events.

    The problem now is, I canít keep enough air (for my weight anyway) in the remote chamber (I try to keep it around 170 - 190 psi) and I canít get the sag to be much less than 45 %. While this would seriously performance on most other bikes, the Firebird still manages to ride acceptably well in spite of this. I just want to get
    that extra performance that a well tuned shock will give. Plus i have some doubts about how long itís going to stay reasonably acceptable.
    I don't miss air suspension at all. Good luck.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  11. #11
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    Exactly! I can get on 4 different bikes from 4 different people (knowledgeable people!) and they'll all feel different. Adjustability is what allows you to customize the ride for your style and terrain. Just gotta be methodical with getting things dialed in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Good, how a bike should ride is a matter of opinion .
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  12. #12
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    Doesnít coil make ( I think I rode coil once, but it was a long time ago) it harder
    to pop off of things.
    I had read in reviews that the cdba is supposed to be close to coil in performance, but I have no way of verifying that without riding one. Iím riding exclusively TMP (a trail system in Tucson, AZ) for a while, till I head back east in a few weeks. Here I can see how a coil would work better for the chundery Tucson trails, but back east(New England) the trails are more loamy - with some big boulders scattered about. I guess if youíre coming off of big jumps and donít want to bottom out as easily, coil would be the ticket too.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by le_buzz View Post
    Doesnít coil make ( I think I rode coil once, but it was a long time ago) it harder
    to pop off of things.
    I had read in reviews that the cdba is supposed to be close to coil in performance, but I have no way of verifying that without riding one. Iím riding exclusively TMP (a trail system in Tucson, AZ) for a while, till I head back east in a few weeks. Here I can see how a coil would work better for the chundery Tucson trails, but back east(New England) the trails are more loamy - with some big boulders scattered about. I guess if youíre coming off of big jumps and donít want to bottom out as easily, coil would be the ticket too.
    Motocross people seem to do fine on 'em .

    I have many hours on CCDB coil and an air, which I have as a back up and don't look forward to using when I send the coil in for service for the first time in 4 years. The CCDBA does not feel the same, you can fvck around with volume spacers, settings, and it still won't. A very skilled riding buddy borrowed one for a ride and now he's gotta have it....to replace his CCDBA. In my opinion, shared by at least one other person I respect, is it comes in second place. Carrying a pump all the time sucks, too.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Motocross people seem to do fine on 'em .

    I have many hours on CCDB coil and an air, which I have as a back up and don't look forward to using when I send the coil in for service for the first time in 4 years. The CCDBA does not feel the same, you can fvck around with volume spacers, settings, and it still won't. A very skilled riding buddy borrowed one for a ride and now he's gotta have it....to replace his CCDBA. In my opinion, shared by at least one other person I respect, is it comes in second place. Carrying a pump all the time sucks, too.
    Well, when you think about all the shocks out there, coil and air, the fact that the cdba comes in second to the ccdb coil is pretty good. For me, though, I need to use my Firebird as a one bike quiver for everything. That means a lot of xc, trail riding, AM, you get the picture. Trying to keep the weight around 31 lbs. and change. Plus thereís the factor of expense, and having to buy extra coils - and titanium ones to keep the weight down. Iím already breaking the bank as is. Now if someone whoís knowledge I respect were to tell me that the cdba is NOT a huge improvement over my current DHX Air (which is tuned for the Firebird by Fox), then I would have to reconsider.

    I used to own a Delirium. I tried to press it into Ďthe one bikeí - as they called it - duties, but serious climbs would just wear me out too much and I replaced it with the firebird.

    I would see your point about going coil on that bike, though, as the bike was meant for going big. (and you wouldnít be able to get it under 34lbs. anyway without resorting to stupid light.)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by le_buzz View Post
    Well, when you think about all the shocks out there, coil and air, the fact that the cdba comes in second to the ccdb coil is pretty good. For me, though, I need to use my Firebird as a one bike quiver for everything. That means a lot of xc, trail riding, AM, you get the picture. Trying to keep the weight around 31 lbs. and change. Plus thereís the factor of expense, and having to buy extra coils - and titanium ones to keep the weight down. Iím already breaking the bank as is. Now if someone whoís knowledge I respect were to tell me that the cdba is NOT a huge improvement over my current DHX Air (which is tuned for the Firebird by Fox), then I would have to reconsider.

    I used to own a Delirium. I tried to press it into Ďthe one bikeí - as they called it - duties, but serious climbs would just wear me out too much and I replaced it with the firebird.

    I would see your point about going coil on that bike, though, as the bike was meant for going big. (and you wouldnít be able to get it under 34lbs. anyway without resorting to stupid light.)
    Funny you mention that, my Delirium is hanging in my closet because 37lbs is not suitable for AZ terrain, generally. My experience on the HD which replaced it is similar to this guy:

    Coil shock on Ibis Mojo HD - how it rides? Perfect.

    I was not at all impressed with the technical climbing traction of HD until running my Delirium's coil as an experiment. Much improved, still not as good as the Knolly in that department.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    I switched over to a Mach 5.7 this year and am running the FloatX and Float34CTD suspension on that bike.No complaints at al
    would you mind giving a detailed comparison on riding the 5.7 to the Firebird? w/
    1" less travel, it's obviously designed to ride slightly less demanding trails, but still seems plenty capable. from someone w/ your Pivot experience, your opinion would be interesting, regardless of bias.
    let's hear it, please. ying & yang
    breezy shade

  17. #17
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    No problem! I always liked the 5.7 but with my background of racing DH the Firebird was a more logical choice for me. The 5.7 is still able to handle almost anything I'd ride on the Firebird but when you start really pushing it into the chunky stuff you do notice the steeper HA, lighter fork. The 'Bird is a bike that you can pretty much ride plow thru stuff with whereas on the 5.7 you'll need to be a bit more selective. On the other side, even with most of the parts from my 'Bird on the 5.7 it still came in almost 5 lbs lighter so climbing is even more like cheating. This combined with only a slight compromise in DH capability makes it a really good choice if your focus isn't leaning toward the biggest , burliest stuff out there. I just took it to Moab for the 1st time and rode Mag7/Portal, Porc Rim and Hymasa/Capt Ahab. There were only a couple of places where I skipped a line that I'd done on the 'Bird and those were more a matter of me just not feeling like taking the risk. I've personally kind of moved away from racing DH and riding the steepest tech lines out there so the 5.7 just makes more sense for me now. I strongly considered the new Mach4 but decided I'd be riding it a bit too far outside it's intended use. On a side note, I got the FloatX on my 5.7 and love it on there (even after riding the CCDB for almost 2 years).



    QUOTE=nhodge;11926775]would you mind giving a detailed comparison on riding the 5.7 to the Firebird? w/
    1" less travel, it's obviously designed to ride slightly less demanding trails, but still seems plenty capable. from someone w/ your Pivot experience, your opinion would be interesting, regardless of bias.
    let's hear it, please. ying & yang[/QUOTE]
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  18. #18
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    I can definitely say the CCDB will be a big step up from your DHXAir. The FloatX is a big improvement over that shock....
    Quote Originally Posted by le_buzz View Post
    Well, when you think about all the shocks out there, coil and air, the fact that the cdba comes in second to the ccdb coil is pretty good. For me, though, I need to use my Firebird as a one bike quiver for everything. That means a lot of xc, trail riding, AM, you get the picture. Trying to keep the weight around 31 lbs. and change. Plus thereís the factor of expense, and having to buy extra coils - and titanium ones to keep the weight down. Iím already breaking the bank as is. Now if someone whoís knowledge I respect were to tell me that the cdba is NOT a huge improvement over my current DHX Air (which is tuned for the Firebird by Fox), then I would have to reconsider.

    I used to own a Delirium. I tried to press it into Ďthe one bikeí - as they called it - duties, but serious climbs would just wear me out too much and I replaced it with the firebird.

    I would see your point about going coil on that bike, though, as the bike was meant for going big. (and you wouldnít be able to get it under 34lbs. anyway without resorting to stupid light.)
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  19. #19
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    I put an RC4 coil on my Firebird and it was an insanely noticeable improvement over the DHX Air 5 I had on there.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=kenbentit;11926875]No problem! I always liked the 5.7 but with my background of racing DH the Firebird was a more logical choice for me. The 5.7 is still able to handle almost anything I'd ride on the Firebird but when you start really pushing it into the chunky stuff you do notice the steeper HA, lighter fork. The 'Bird is a bike that you can pretty much ride plow thru stuff with whereas on the 5.7 you'll need to be a bit more selective. On the other side, even with most of the parts from my 'Bird on the 5.7 it still came in almost 5 lbs lighter so climbing is even more like cheating. This combined with only a slight compromise in DH capability makes it a really good choice if your focus isn't leaning toward the biggest , burliest stuff out there. I just took it to Moab for the 1st time and rode Mag7/Portal, Porc Rim and Hymasa/Capt Ahab. There were only a couple of places where I skipped a line that I'd done on the 'Bird and those were more a matter of me just not feeling like taking the risk. I've personally kind of moved away from racing DH and riding the steepest tech lines out there so the 5.7 just makes more sense for me now. I strongly considered the new Mach4 but decided I'd be riding it a bit too far outside it's intended use. On a side note, I got the FloatX on my 5.7 and love it on there (even after riding the CCDB for almost 2 years).





    really appreciate the comp. pretty much sounds like the perfect frame for me at this time.
    anybody out there looking to part w/ one?
    breezy shade

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