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  1. #76
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    That 4x is a good looking bike, and i'm sure it's just as fun! I know the rear shock is supposed to be optimised for dirt jumping/slalom/slope style, but how does it perform for all around trail riding? Hows the small bump complaince? Does it feel hard tail firm with the suspension only softening the hard hits? I'm curious, since for me it would be a dj/pump track/trail fun bike.

  2. #77
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    That's pretty much how it rides, like a hardtail with extra forgiveness.I believe we're having shocks valved specifically for this bike which will bump up the firmness a bit without requiring as much air as I'm running. I rode one of the shocks that our team guys are running and they have their setup VERY firm (lots of Comp. damping).
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  3. #78
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    when you say lots of compression damping, do you mean they're using the pro pedal? (as opposed to or in addition to that provided by the custom valving, etc.)...
    Last edited by dog; 11-28-2011 at 05:29 PM.
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  4. #79
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    Ken - Are those Sun-Ringle ADD Pro wheels on your M4X? I am thinking about picking up a set as part of a possible Firebird build, do you like them? How have they held up for you?

  5. #80
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    dog; The team guys run Rock Shox suspension so their setup is unfamiliar to me.It has a lever kinda like propedal but not exactly. I set the shock up with the same sag as my RP23 and it was crazy stiff. Those guys ride so much more aggressively than us mortals...

    davemk; Those are the ADD's, I just got a set to try out so I only have about 100 miles on them so far. They're a really solid rim, easy to seat the tires and not overly heavy (these weighed in at just under 2000g for the set). The freehub is pretty basic but solid. I rode a set of the Chargers for several months and they held up amazingly well so these should be even better. The rim really is burly, I think it would work fine on the 'Bird.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    dog; The team guys run Rock Shox suspension so their setup is unfamiliar to me.
    oh, yeah... you keep telling me that and i keep forgetting...

    anyway...

    so do set up your RP23 with the usual pivot/DW 30% sag then? do you run with the propedal on? do you jump (like dj jumps) with the propedal on?
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  7. #82
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    For this bike you don't really setup with any sag at all. The suspension is just there to take the edge off things. I'm running 230 psi in my shock and I get maybe 20% sag. I've tried using the propedal settings but with it already so firm I didn't notice any big difference. I just leave it off all the time, although it makes sense to use it at the pumptrack. I like to have the suspension working for jumps though, just for a little extra cushion if I get off line...
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  8. #83
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    I never go here even though it's right by my house. I see people there all the time... if I had a M4X, I'm pretty sure I'd at be there at least 2x a week as there's some serious flow:

    Shooting-With-Brandon-and-Liam Photo Album - Page 1 - Pinkbike.com
    "It looks flexy"

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    For this bike you don't really setup with any sag at all. The suspension is just there to take the edge off things. I'm running 230 psi in my shock and I get maybe 20% sag. I've tried using the propedal settings but with it already so firm I didn't notice any big difference. I just leave it off all the time, although it makes sense to use it at the pumptrack. I like to have the suspension working for jumps though, just for a little extra cushion if I get off line...
    so what advantages to you realize from the DW linkage?

    i am asking because my transition double pretty much is like what you described above. nevertheless, it is really sensitive to rebound and the other settings on the fork and shock (which is good)... in my imagination i was thinking that the benefits of the DW link would still come into play (no squat, brake dive, etc...) i was even thinking with my double that i would try to look at adjusting the settings specifically for trail riding... in other words, i'd have one set of settings for djs, etc. and one for trail... this could mean carrying a shock pump in my camelbak... anyway, my gut is that i'll try it and find that it's not worth having two sets of settings...
    the real reason i want to do this is because i love the short, compact geometry of the bike and the responsiveness that creates... and i want it to be a decent trail bike as well... but i don't want the XCish geometry (like steep head angle, for instance) of an XC bike... i dunno, maybe i'm nuts
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  10. #85
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    You still get all the benefits of the DW link but the setup is much different from a "regular" bike. I could run more sag if I wanted to but the suspension on this bike is optimized for minimal sag. Even with it set as firm as I run it the bike absorbs some significant hits and sprinting out of corners is on par with a hardtail. Don't forget that I used this bike at Dealer camp on the DH runs and had no problem keeping up with the rest of the groups on full blown DH or AM bikes. You just have to ride aggressively to get the full benefit of the suspension. For me it's like having all the benefits of a Mach 4 with the geometry and burliness of the Firebird. I carry my shock pump as well but haven't bothered changing settings because it works so well...
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  11. #86
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    this ^ is how i hoped it would ride!

    my local trails are fast with lots of roots and a few natural jumps thrown in.

    a lot of fun riding them on my brooklyn (with a front brake)



    should be evan more fun on the M4X...

  12. #87
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    Yep, the bike really rewards you if you get aggressive and push hard. If you try riding it like a regular trail bike it'll beat you up just like a hardtail. I find myself doing that occasionally and have even stopped to check my shock & fork settings only to realize it's just me being lazy or timid. I'm still amazed at how easily the bike jumps though. I get the benefit of being able to carry speed through the chop but can still loft the bike like I'm on my hardtail DJ. Very much like cheating
    BTW; That Brooklyn is schweet!
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    I could run more sag if I wanted to but the suspension on this bike is optimized for minimal sag.
    ah... that makes more sense then... i know that DWs seem to be pretty sensitive to having the correct sag... so for the M4X it's just optimized around a lesser amount...

    my double... check the bar end cap


    Last edited by dog; 11-30-2011 at 04:25 PM.
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  14. #89
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    Was that Jill's bike? It's pretty pimped out that's for sure
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  15. #90
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    yeah, and she apparently won a few races on it, too... transition ebayed it at such a price that it was too hard to resist considering all the fly bits...
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  16. #91
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    @ Ken, how tall are you, what's your inseam. trying to compare your bike fit. I got to check out one of the production samples when i stopped by the shop last week, looks awesome, need to get my order in
    Niner WFO | Transition Double | Pivot Firebird

  17. #92
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    I'm right at 6' tall, 34" inseam.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    I'm right at 6' tall, 34" inseam.
    cool, thanks
    Niner WFO | Transition Double | Pivot Firebird

  19. #94
    dog
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    check out this nice picture of the M4X on a pump track... still not available to us mortals ... but maybe soon

    News - Landis Cyclery South Mtn Bike & Run Classic | Pivot Cycles - Mountain Bikes for XC, Trail, Downhill
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  20. #95
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    Thanks for the copy dog! Here's a sneak peek video of the area we've been working on for the event, I'm riding the Point in this one (really loving that bike btw...). Our hope is to have a permanent version of the stuff in the video (it's a one day event to show what we'd like to build in the Park...) The picture on the flyer is from one of our other projects at McDowell Mtn Park. That pumptrack sees a TON of use and is a big hit for the Park so we hope to do the same at So. Mtn...

    GROAZ skills area on Vimeo
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  21. #96
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    That pump track is like this bar in cabo....
    "It looks flexy"

  22. #97
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    kenbentit - yeah, our local public pump track at one of our county parks is pretty popular, too... little kids really seem to like it, which is cool and good for the sport ... we are refurbishing it now because it got a little worn down

    curious, do most folks at McDowell Mtn Park get how it works? ours has some signage that kind of explains it, but most the adults who get on it don't seem to understand how it's supposed to work (i.e. the pumping). i guess i was wondering if you all have any ideas on signage etc. that can help folks get started on the right track, so to speak...

    gticlay - your all's trails are one big downhill pump track... or is that your point?
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  23. #98
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    Clayton: I've ridden tracks that were WAY tighter than what we built. It just keeps you on your toes a bit more

    dog: We haven't gotten around to making a "How To" sign yet but I have been thinking about it for quite a while. The best description I've heard yet for riding pumptracks is "Light on the UP's, Heavy on the Down's". It's one of the better phrases for describing the act of unweighting the bike on the face of the roller and then pumping (weighting the bike) on the downside. It's not quite as clear when it comes to the rear wheel so I'm thinking of some simple wording and stick figure drawings to show what the motion should be (think of a stick figure on a bike with arrows for forward direction approaching a roller, followed by the same figure with arrows showing the direction onto then over the roller. 3 drawings total).
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  24. #99
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    i always describe as "pump like as on a swing"...


    somethin' like... (yes, my drafting skills are almost as lacking as my bike skills)

    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  25. #100
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    Yep, the swingset description works quite well too. You just have to emphasize that it's an unweighting of the bike vs actually lifting it (like a bunnyhop)
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

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