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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    I have 2 seat/post setups for the bike so I can use a long one for trail rides and have a short one for jumping/pumptrack/etc...
    How does the m4x do on pump tracks? I'm pretty close to finishing my back yard pump track and would also like to get into dual slalom and thinking this bike would be nice! I curently run a Yeti Dj hardtail, and my joints can use a little suspension in the rear!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    The plan is one run a year, the quantity might vary if demand warrants (next year's run).
    oh, i'll get one this year or next... and to some degree i blame you... i was thinking to myself how this type of DJish fs-type bike with a more aggressive geometry could easily serve a more multi-use purpose than intended (i.e. non-epic ride trail bike)... so i got my hands on a lesser brand of similar geometry and it is a blast for all kinds of riding... anyway, i can only imagine how much better such a bike would be with a Pivoty DW fine-tuned suspension would be..
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  3. #53
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    three questions:

    1) what is the recommended fork length range?
    2) any guess at the weight?
    3) what is the max seatpost height?
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  4. #54
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    Sorry I missed the earlier question regarding pumptrack, must've come up while I was sick (yay Cold! ).
    As for pumptrack use, I've only taken it out a few times and I had my big DH tires/wheels on the bike so it wasn't quite as snappy as I'd want. The suspension worked out fine but I was hauling too much rolling weight. It was weighing close to 31lbs with that setup but the more AM combo I'm running now has the total weight down to 28.5 with pedals. That's an XT kit, Fox 831 fork, Sun Charger wheels with Kenda 2.1 Happy Medium on back & 2.35 Nexcavator on front, Code brakes (overkill, I know..), Gravity alloy bar, E-13 guide w. bashring, SDG I-Beam seat/post and Deity Decoy pedals. There's PLENTY of room to get the weight even lower but I like a more burly setup.
    Recommended fork travel; It was designed around a 100mm fork.
    Max seatpost height; I'll have to ask about that. You definitely won't be able to get a lot of seat height but I'm able to do long rides just fine (I'm kinda weird like that though )
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    You definitely won't be able to get a lot of seat height but I'm able to do long rides just fine (I'm kinda weird like that though )
    That would be the intent. I would like to know because i would use a reverby type seat post or do what you suggested...

    so, please post up when you find out...

    can you narrow down the frame weight? Are you talking 7-8 lbs or 6-7 lbs or some similar range... i just gotta know!!!

    and is 100 mm fork the only option or is their a range? (like from a "we do not recommend this" point of view)

    and while i am profusely spewing out questions in an obsessive compulsive manner...

    What do you think about the nexcavators?
    Last edited by dog; 11-18-2011 at 07:03 PM.
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  6. #56
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    I asked about the max height, no answer yet. No idea on frame weight (there aren't any extras laying around to weigh and I'm not stripping mine down ). The geometry is "optimized" around the 100mm fork but you can run more travel if you really want to. I can't see ever wanting to go above 120mm, have to ask about that recommendation as well.
    As for the Nexcavators; I'm really digging those as a front tire. It has a very open tread pattern with some meaty lugs that really let you dig in. All in a surprisingly light, fast rolling tire. The profile is quite a bit rounder than the Excavator and the width ends up narrower as a result (at least on my wheels). I'm running it with a Happy Medium on back and that setup is really cool. Kinda like having the XC speed with DH toughness.
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  7. #57
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    thanks, i'll just breathe into a paper bag to keep from hyper-ventilating...

    so what bottom stack height are you running for your headset?
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  8. #58
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    Both are zerostack cups. Same HS as the Mach series bikes; 44mm internal cup on top, 56mm internal on bottom.
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  9. #59
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    i'd like to promise that this is my last question... but... somehow i don't think that's gonna happen...

    can i assume that... if a body just felt it had to be done... there would be plenty of clearance for a 2.35" happy medium or small block 8? (kendas tend to look wider that most tires of the same size to me).
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  10. #60
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    That's what I ran all summer. 2.35 Small Block 8 DH or Excavator. It's not exactly roomy but they fit fine.
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  11. #61
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    How would this bike be as a Trail bike that is used a little bit as a DJ bike? This would be for a person less the 5.5" tall who is really good at jumping but enjoys Trail riding just as much.

  12. #62
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    i plan to ride mine as a trail/mini dh/jump bike and i'm 5 10. my dropper post should 10mm over the minimum line. hopefully it will be here by the end of january

    @kenbentit,

    is this the correct cane creek headset for the m4x?

    SHIS:ZS44 - 1-1/8" ZeroStack (ZS) Threadless

    SHIS:ZS56/40 - 1.5" ZeroStack (ZS)

  13. #63
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    right now i'm riding a transition double which is real similar in geometry and sizing (and i guess handling characteristics) to the m4x. i'm 5'8" and the smaller of the double's two sizes is just right as a trail bike for me. beyond that, it is a blast to ride and jump, etc.... it's gravity oriented, so to speak, but it handles very precisely and does exactly what you tell it to do... i'm guessing the m4x is going to be a cut above the double...
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  14. #64
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    Senor Strongbad; I'm using mine mainly as a trail bike and loving it more every time I take it out. At your height it'll be even easier to get a "normal" fit (assuming you go with the larger frame). I'm able to pedal sitting down OK but the seat is a bit low. I swapped my gearing out to a 10 speed setup with 11-36 cassette & 32t chainring to give me a lower climbing gear.

    fua: Those cups look like the right ones to me. Zero Stack 44 upper and Zerostack 56 lower.

    BTW, I'm planning to do a 76 mile ride this Friday which includes 30 miles of pavement. Guess which bike I'm taking
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    Guess which bike I'm taking
    nice... thanks for rubbing that in...

    next time, why don't you just give me a paper cut and pour some lemon juice on it
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  16. #66
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    thanks kenbentit

    as for 76 miles i'd need two days! hope you have fun!

  17. #67
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    This ride is more social than painful. They usually do it in about 12 hrs (lots of stops for eating, drinking, etc... )
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  18. #68
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    Can you measure how much you can insert a seat post before it hits the curved part of the seat tube? Im pretty short and curious if I would be able to fully insert my Kindshock seat post.

  19. #69
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    Well mine is a pre-production bike so there could be a slight variation in the production version (not expected but I don't have one to verify that). My bike has 8.5" of useable seat tube (it's the Large size).
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  20. #70
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    Done with the FOTP!

    That stands for "Flight Of The Pigs". It's a big group ride that covers the 3 main riding areas in Phoenix. Total distance is approx. 70 miles with 30 of it on pavement. We ride South Mtn from East to West on National trail, hit the canal and pavement North into Downtown for lunch. Continue North to the West end of Trail 100 (Phoenix Mtn Preserve). Ride the length of that trail, regroup and head over to Papago Park and ride thru there before hitting the pavement and heading back to the start. I rode the M4X and had no trouble on any of the sections. I was geared a bit low for the pavement but that just meant I hung with the singlespeed guys. Very happy with the bike though, it worked even better than I thought it would
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Pivot M4x bike-m4xlunch.jpg  

    New Pivot M4x bike-m4xbeer.jpg  

    New Pivot M4x bike-m4xdirty.jpg  

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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    I was geared a bit low for the pavement but that just meant I hung with the singlespeed guys.
    the single speeders tend to be more about having fun anyway... so it sounds like a win/win

    ...and more importantly, it sounds like the old knee held out
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  22. #72
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    I kept a steady intake of vitamin I going so there wouldn't be any inflammation. Should've been more diligent with the electrolytes though, got leg cramps at the midway point The bike was crazy fun though; perfect mix of speed and toughness...
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  23. #73
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    Is vitamin I beer? If so, good job.
    "It looks flexy"

  24. #74
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    gticlay, are you so young that you don't know what vitamin I is, yet? or are you just saying beer is better?

    (ibuprofen)
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  25. #75
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    There was beer as well but much more ibuprofen. One of the signs of getting old
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  26. #76
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    That 4x is a good looking bike, and i'm sure it's just as fun! I know the rear shock is supposed to be optimised for dirt jumping/slalom/slope style, but how does it perform for all around trail riding? Hows the small bump complaince? Does it feel hard tail firm with the suspension only softening the hard hits? I'm curious, since for me it would be a dj/pump track/trail fun bike.

  27. #77
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    That's pretty much how it rides, like a hardtail with extra forgiveness.I believe we're having shocks valved specifically for this bike which will bump up the firmness a bit without requiring as much air as I'm running. I rode one of the shocks that our team guys are running and they have their setup VERY firm (lots of Comp. damping).
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  28. #78
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    when you say lots of compression damping, do you mean they're using the pro pedal? (as opposed to or in addition to that provided by the custom valving, etc.)...
    Last edited by dog; 11-28-2011 at 06:29 PM.
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  29. #79
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    Ken - Are those Sun-Ringle ADD Pro wheels on your M4X? I am thinking about picking up a set as part of a possible Firebird build, do you like them? How have they held up for you?

  30. #80
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    dog; The team guys run Rock Shox suspension so their setup is unfamiliar to me.It has a lever kinda like propedal but not exactly. I set the shock up with the same sag as my RP23 and it was crazy stiff. Those guys ride so much more aggressively than us mortals...

    davemk; Those are the ADD's, I just got a set to try out so I only have about 100 miles on them so far. They're a really solid rim, easy to seat the tires and not overly heavy (these weighed in at just under 2000g for the set). The freehub is pretty basic but solid. I rode a set of the Chargers for several months and they held up amazingly well so these should be even better. The rim really is burly, I think it would work fine on the 'Bird.
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  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    dog; The team guys run Rock Shox suspension so their setup is unfamiliar to me.
    oh, yeah... you keep telling me that and i keep forgetting...

    anyway...

    so do set up your RP23 with the usual pivot/DW 30% sag then? do you run with the propedal on? do you jump (like dj jumps) with the propedal on?
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  32. #82
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    For this bike you don't really setup with any sag at all. The suspension is just there to take the edge off things. I'm running 230 psi in my shock and I get maybe 20% sag. I've tried using the propedal settings but with it already so firm I didn't notice any big difference. I just leave it off all the time, although it makes sense to use it at the pumptrack. I like to have the suspension working for jumps though, just for a little extra cushion if I get off line...
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  33. #83
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    I never go here even though it's right by my house. I see people there all the time... if I had a M4X, I'm pretty sure I'd at be there at least 2x a week as there's some serious flow:

    Shooting-With-Brandon-and-Liam Photo Album - Page 1 - Pinkbike.com
    "It looks flexy"

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    For this bike you don't really setup with any sag at all. The suspension is just there to take the edge off things. I'm running 230 psi in my shock and I get maybe 20% sag. I've tried using the propedal settings but with it already so firm I didn't notice any big difference. I just leave it off all the time, although it makes sense to use it at the pumptrack. I like to have the suspension working for jumps though, just for a little extra cushion if I get off line...
    so what advantages to you realize from the DW linkage?

    i am asking because my transition double pretty much is like what you described above. nevertheless, it is really sensitive to rebound and the other settings on the fork and shock (which is good)... in my imagination i was thinking that the benefits of the DW link would still come into play (no squat, brake dive, etc...) i was even thinking with my double that i would try to look at adjusting the settings specifically for trail riding... in other words, i'd have one set of settings for djs, etc. and one for trail... this could mean carrying a shock pump in my camelbak... anyway, my gut is that i'll try it and find that it's not worth having two sets of settings...
    the real reason i want to do this is because i love the short, compact geometry of the bike and the responsiveness that creates... and i want it to be a decent trail bike as well... but i don't want the XCish geometry (like steep head angle, for instance) of an XC bike... i dunno, maybe i'm nuts
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  35. #85
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    You still get all the benefits of the DW link but the setup is much different from a "regular" bike. I could run more sag if I wanted to but the suspension on this bike is optimized for minimal sag. Even with it set as firm as I run it the bike absorbs some significant hits and sprinting out of corners is on par with a hardtail. Don't forget that I used this bike at Dealer camp on the DH runs and had no problem keeping up with the rest of the groups on full blown DH or AM bikes. You just have to ride aggressively to get the full benefit of the suspension. For me it's like having all the benefits of a Mach 4 with the geometry and burliness of the Firebird. I carry my shock pump as well but haven't bothered changing settings because it works so well...
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  36. #86
    fua
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    this ^ is how i hoped it would ride!

    my local trails are fast with lots of roots and a few natural jumps thrown in.

    a lot of fun riding them on my brooklyn (with a front brake)



    should be evan more fun on the M4X...

  37. #87
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    Yep, the bike really rewards you if you get aggressive and push hard. If you try riding it like a regular trail bike it'll beat you up just like a hardtail. I find myself doing that occasionally and have even stopped to check my shock & fork settings only to realize it's just me being lazy or timid. I'm still amazed at how easily the bike jumps though. I get the benefit of being able to carry speed through the chop but can still loft the bike like I'm on my hardtail DJ. Very much like cheating
    BTW; That Brooklyn is schweet!
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  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    I could run more sag if I wanted to but the suspension on this bike is optimized for minimal sag.
    ah... that makes more sense then... i know that DWs seem to be pretty sensitive to having the correct sag... so for the M4X it's just optimized around a lesser amount...

    my double... check the bar end cap


    Last edited by dog; 11-30-2011 at 05:25 PM.
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  39. #89
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    Was that Jill's bike? It's pretty pimped out that's for sure
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  40. #90
    dog
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    yeah, and she apparently won a few races on it, too... transition ebayed it at such a price that it was too hard to resist considering all the fly bits...
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  41. #91
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    @ Ken, how tall are you, what's your inseam. trying to compare your bike fit. I got to check out one of the production samples when i stopped by the shop last week, looks awesome, need to get my order in
    Niner WFO | Transition Double | Pivot Firebird

  42. #92
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    I'm right at 6' tall, 34" inseam.
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  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    I'm right at 6' tall, 34" inseam.
    cool, thanks
    Niner WFO | Transition Double | Pivot Firebird

  44. #94
    dog
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    check out this nice picture of the M4X on a pump track... still not available to us mortals ... but maybe soon

    News - Landis Cyclery South Mtn Bike & Run Classic | Pivot Cycles - Mountain Bikes for XC, Trail, Downhill
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  45. #95
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    Thanks for the copy dog! Here's a sneak peek video of the area we've been working on for the event, I'm riding the Point in this one (really loving that bike btw...). Our hope is to have a permanent version of the stuff in the video (it's a one day event to show what we'd like to build in the Park...) The picture on the flyer is from one of our other projects at McDowell Mtn Park. That pumptrack sees a TON of use and is a big hit for the Park so we hope to do the same at So. Mtn...

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  46. #96
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    That pump track is like this bar in cabo....
    "It looks flexy"

  47. #97
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    kenbentit - yeah, our local public pump track at one of our county parks is pretty popular, too... little kids really seem to like it, which is cool and good for the sport ... we are refurbishing it now because it got a little worn down

    curious, do most folks at McDowell Mtn Park get how it works? ours has some signage that kind of explains it, but most the adults who get on it don't seem to understand how it's supposed to work (i.e. the pumping). i guess i was wondering if you all have any ideas on signage etc. that can help folks get started on the right track, so to speak...

    gticlay - your all's trails are one big downhill pump track... or is that your point?
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  48. #98
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    Clayton: I've ridden tracks that were WAY tighter than what we built. It just keeps you on your toes a bit more

    dog: We haven't gotten around to making a "How To" sign yet but I have been thinking about it for quite a while. The best description I've heard yet for riding pumptracks is "Light on the UP's, Heavy on the Down's". It's one of the better phrases for describing the act of unweighting the bike on the face of the roller and then pumping (weighting the bike) on the downside. It's not quite as clear when it comes to the rear wheel so I'm thinking of some simple wording and stick figure drawings to show what the motion should be (think of a stick figure on a bike with arrows for forward direction approaching a roller, followed by the same figure with arrows showing the direction onto then over the roller. 3 drawings total).
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  49. #99
    dog
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    i always describe as "pump like as on a swing"...


    somethin' like... (yes, my drafting skills are almost as lacking as my bike skills)

    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  50. #100
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    Yep, the swingset description works quite well too. You just have to emphasize that it's an unweighting of the bike vs actually lifting it (like a bunnyhop)
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