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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I've read a bunch of M6 reviews that say the bike is stiff burly trail destroyer and a few that say it's flexy. Just wondering what your thoughts on that question are? Is there some noticeable flex when pushed hard into corners or is that an issue with some builds - say the wheels?
    Others will be better able confirm this than me but my day I spent on the M6 re flex, I can say without doubt was the wheels, Stans Arch EXs (not flows) are far to narrow for a bike like this and this frame does not need XC crutches to make it go fast uphill or feel light, the honey badger also didnt help on the rear, I still feel Fox Float X still uses more travel than it should which can also give a feel of flex, much bigger improvement over the std CTD float, but compare to an Vector or CCDB (BOS as well though Ive had no time on the Kirk, they dont have never have poor dampening) these shocks still have more control and where its noticeable is climbing, not just decending or jumpjng, g-outs etc.

    This is with compression rebound all set the Fox still bobs distinctly when you compare these shocks back to back, you dont notice it if youve been used to riding a Fox for awhile and have nothing to compare, try them back to back and you will see what I mean, I have not missed a lockout switch on my Vector yet when I ride a Fox I feel I have to atleast use trail mode climbing on fireroads.

    The other let down for me was the 14 Float fork ok but not in the Pikes, Sweep XF leagues, everytime I now ride one of these forks, I just come away hating it, I could easily live with the FX in the rear not the fork.

    I doubt the frame is flexing you can do the chainstay side to side test and then do the same with the wheel usually pretty telling whats what.

    Tires spokes, shock sag, so many other things contribute to the feel of flex.

    To me if you going to buy a frame of this quality and capability then short cutting the key areas is like painting a roof with one top coat and no primer and using cheap arse paint, it will last a few years the its do over time again and looks and feel like s**t

    Carbon bikes need quality components, sizing of frame is also important, I see some builds where people should really be a size up, stacks are misleading, but more than 20mm of stack and a seatpost way extended is not good either, im not anti stack either actually on modern bikes Im the opposite, but too much and too little unbalances things too much can also cause the steer tube to sheer off, most manafactures rec 30mm anymore no warranty! 20mm for the right size frame should be max anyway, I run 15mm, again all realtive to headset type brand as all stacks are different.


    Just so many variables, but I can confidently say if those that complain of flex look at theyre setups components!

    Happy trails,
    ps only issue I see witht he M6 is im seeing some many of them, lest with my current ride, I'm a rare bird and I like that haha!

  2. #202
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    Coming from a Intense Carbine the flex king,the Mach 6 is the epiphany of stability with " Just Right " movement,really it is the " Goldilocks " of how a rear should feel!

  3. #203
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    I specifically stood off the bike and flexed it using the cranks. I have only heard one rider comment on lack of stiffness, but the wheels were the only flex I got.

  4. #204
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    Ordered a large Stealth black with XO1 Wednesday. Found out Thursday that it will be coming next week! Thought I would have to wait about 8 weeks based on what I had been hearing. Many thanks to Brent and Joe at MTB Garage. I would highly recommend them if you are in the Atlanta area or if you will be using mail order. They were willing to change everything that wasn't to my liking, and even gave me full credit on what was taken off. It is like I am getting a custom build for an off the shelf price. Icing on the cake that I am getting it so fast. You can find them on the Pivot dealer locator.

  5. #205
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    That's cool that they changed components out for you.
    I ordered a small stealth 2 days ago and it will be here Thursday next week. They wouldn't change the fork for me though, saying that if it ships to them with it, they have to ship it to me with it. I did get a 10% military discount and free shipping with no tax so I can't complain.

  6. #206
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    I think the 2014 Fox 34 is a pretty good fork. Worlds better than the 2013. I am swapping to a Pike though, as it is a little more buttery. If the Fox bothers you, sell it on eBay before you put any miles on it and swap to the Pike. That would pretty much be an even swap money wise. And the stealth black Pike looks great with the Stealth Black Mach 6.

  7. #207
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    I regards to the guys who are bigger. I'm 235lbs, is the stock shock fine with your weight or would it be a good idea to send the shock off to Avalanche to have it tuned?

  8. #208
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    First time caller long time listener... Have had my large M6 for about 4 weeks and cant help feel i should of sized up, im 6'2" and my preference would be to run a 50mm stem but im just too cramped in the cockpit - standing while climbing (steep) with the 50mm just isnt a goer for me. Ive borrowed a 60mm with +6 degrees rise and flipped/slammed it trying to get some more reach. This has had some large improvements however I guess I was expecting the bike to be more stable when descending, its just so lively. Im happy to take the hit and swap out for an XL however now that im slightly more geo aware I see the stack on the XL is pretty high relative to other AM rigs - Im worried im gonna feel like im riding a Segway! Whats more are my 160mm Pikes going to exacerbate this sensation? I know someone will likely to suggest a shop demo but thats not a reality given my location at the bottom of the globe...My buddies ride Yeti 66, SC Bronson, GT Force and they're trying to get me to go a SC Nomad - I live in Wellington, NZ with steep single track tech (clay/roots/rocks). Dont get me wrong the Large M6 shreds hard, especially with my burly marys (its wet down here!) I just thought the M6 would be more stable.

    I guess im asking is there any 6'2" XL M6 owners with 50mm stems out there who are stable in the descent and comfortable in the climb back up?
    Last edited by Toshee; 06-16-2014 at 02:49 AM. Reason: spelling

  9. #209
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    I'm 6'1.5" and I have an XL with a Pike 160 and 50mm stem and a Reverb Stealth and love it. I ride techy steep trails on baked, hard pack, and sandy terrain. It def doesn't feel like a Segway! I actually have two spacers under the stem. Before the shock broke in, it would sometimes kick and twitch descending and on square edge hits. Once it broke in, however, it became very fluid and quite stable heading down with the shock in descend mode. It's the best climbing AM rig I've ever had with this much travel. Tire pressure and the right rear tire is key for me. HR2 3C up front and currently a Vigilante TCS out back at 22f/20r psi. It rails and shreds.

  10. #210
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    For comparison purposes, I'm 5'-10" and ride a Large M6 with a 50mm stem and love it. I originally had a 35mm stem but felt too tight. At 50mm, I'm not cramped, but definitely not too large a cockpit. I can't imagine being 6'-2" and not sizing up to an XL.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by turfnsurf View Post
    For comparison purposes, I'm 5'-10" and ride a Large M6 with a 50mm stem and love it. I originally had a 35mm stem but felt too tight. At 50mm, I'm not cramped, but definitely not too large a cockpit. I can't imagine being 6'-2" and not sizing up to an XL.
    +1 - I'm 5'11" with a 33 pants inseam and I'm on L with a 65mm stem. I tried a 50mm stem and there was no way I could make that work.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toshee View Post
    I just thought the M6 would be more stable.
    The Mach 6 feels lively/nimble on the DHs. It's got a pretty short front end and a short rear end. That's great for being manoeuvrability in tight quarters, but it's not going to be as stable as a longer bike.

    I'm on a large because I ride tight/twisty forest trails for the most part. If I was in more open terrain I'd go for a XL or I'd try a bike with a longer wheelbase like a Kona Process/Knolly Warden.

    All bike designs are a compromise. You have to decide what elements matter most to you and select a bike that best fits the bill.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  13. #213
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    Took the M6 to Whiteface, NY this weekend. Today, carved up some buffed single track. Same setup. Same wheels, tires, fork, etc...

    Hard to believe that one bike can handle some of the roughest, non-buff, old-school DH one day, and buff single track a day later on the same setup.

    Don't get me wrong, it's not a DH bike by any means, but using all my tricks was able to still have fun at the DH courses. I think what makes it able to handle such a wide variety of trails is its slack HTA, matched with the short rear end, bigger wheels, and good suspension.

    Still dialing it in though. Running Spec Purg Grids both ends. 70mm stem on a large - not the best for DH but good for single track. A stem any shorter wouldn't let the bike climb steep tech. If I had to do it over would probably got a Pike DP as the front end does wander on steep climbs.

  14. #214
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    My Large fits me pretty well at 5'10" with the 50mm stem. The 150 mm Pike on front keeps the bars a little higher than the Fox because it stays higher in its travel. My bike is exactly what I was looking for on my tight trails. However, like Vik said the tight wheelbase will have a negative impact on stability. The Nomad seems a little much to pedal, but a Bronson would give you a longer reach and increased stability at the expense of some maneuverability and pedaling efficiency.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    If I had to do it over would probably got a Pike DP as the front end does wander on steep climbs.
    Not sure how long you have had the M6, but I felt the same way when I got my SC Nomad. The slack front end and 160mm fork seemed very challenging to get up steep climbs when I got the bike. A couple months in I wasn't thinking about it at all and was climbing like a champ. These days I have zero interest in a dual position fork.

    I live in coastal BC so steep techy climbs are what we ride all the time.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toshee View Post
    First time caller long time listener... Have had my large M6 for about 4 weeks and cant help feel i should of sized up, im 6'2" and my preference would be to run a 50mm stem but im just too cramped in the cockpit - standing while climbing (steep) with the 50mm just isnt a goer for me. Ive borrowed a 60mm with +6 degrees rise and flipped/slammed it trying to get some more reach. This has had some large improvements however I guess I was expecting the bike to be more stable when descending, its just so lively. Im happy to take the hit and swap out for an XL however now that im slightly more geo aware I see the stack on the XL is pretty high relative to other AM rigs - Im worried im gonna feel like im riding a Segway! Whats more are my 160mm Pikes going to exacerbate this sensation? I know someone will likely to suggest a shop demo but thats not a reality given my location at the bottom of the globe...My buddies ride Yeti 66, SC Bronson, GT Force and they're trying to get me to go a SC Nomad - I live in Wellington, NZ with steep single track tech (clay/roots/rocks). Dont get me wrong the Large M6 shreds hard, especially with my burly marys (its wet down here!) I just thought the M6 would be more stable.

    I guess im asking is there any 6'2" XL M6 owners with 50mm stems out there who are stable in the descent and comfortable in the climb back up?
    I will deliver the bad news, you should definitely be on an X-large. Regarding the bar height, I would not stress too much about it. I used to run the stem on my HD slammed and have a 1 cm spacer under the M6 and love it. Take a look at the bikes on the EWS and you will see bar heights 3-5 cm above what we normally ride! The most recent example is Nico Lau's bike which you can search for bike checks after his win a few weeks ago in Scotland. Fabian Barel is another proponent of super high bars.

    The Nomad will be SIGNIFICANTLY longer than the M6 and by comparison you would be running a 35 mm stem instead of a 50 most likely. Very similar in feel to a Specialized Enduro 29. The M6 is the best bike I have been on yet and has tremendous versatility. My HD was fast, but I also broke a lot of bones on it over the last few years (collarbone, knee cap, elbow, multiple fingers, multiple ribs). My E29 was a 29 and just steamrolled the trails. Made everything kind of boring and blah. The M6 has great stability and even more speed. In addition I am smashing my climbing PR's on it as well. I do have a Nomad on order that will be here in early July, but only out of curiosity. Everything I read says it will be a great bike, but I can't imagine things getting much better than my Pivot.

  17. #217
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    Thanks to those who took the trouble to respond to my "cry for help". My supplier has offered to cut me a deal on a XL which thanks to confidence gained from your responses I intend to take them up on.

    Cheers

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    I will deliver the bad news, you should definitely be on an X-large. Regarding the bar height, I would not stress too much about it. I used to run the stem on my HD slammed and have a 1 cm spacer under the M6 and love it. Take a look at the bikes on the EWS and you will see bar heights 3-5 cm above what we normally ride! The most recent example is Nico Lau's bike which you can search for bike checks after his win a few weeks ago in Scotland. Fabian Barel is another proponent of super high bars.

    The Nomad will be SIGNIFICANTLY longer than the M6 and by comparison you would be running a 35 mm stem instead of a 50 most likely. Very similar in feel to a Specialized Enduro 29. The M6 is the best bike I have been on yet and has tremendous versatility. My HD was fast, but I also broke a lot of bones on it over the last few years (collarbone, knee cap, elbow, multiple fingers, multiple ribs). My E29 was a 29 and just steamrolled the trails. Made everything kind of boring and blah. The M6 has great stability and even more speed. In addition I am smashing my climbing PR's on it as well. I do have a Nomad on order that will be here in early July, but only out of curiosity. Everything I read says it will be a great bike, but I can't imagine things getting much better than my Pivot.

    Bar Height....

    (BTW, when responding to a post, how does one cut just a segment of the post to respond to that piece only?)

    Riding real DH on the M6 showed me my bar height was probably too low. Bumped it up a small spacer and went for a trail ride. Even though the adjustment to the bar height was small it made a large difference in how the bike rode. I had kept the stem a bit lower to help with the climbs, but now it feels like it was too much of a compromise in with regards to performance elsewhere on the trail. Of course the bike now feels better on the downhill but also on the flats as well. Have not done any tech climbs with the bars in "higher" mode. We'll see.

    The 70mm stem now has 3 larger spacers under it. I don't like the look, but it feels great.

  19. #219
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    On the Mach 6 is the PF92 BB pressed right into the carbon frame or is there some other material in that area between the BB and the carbon?

    I can't tell on my blue frame since it's painted.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  20. #220
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    Vik - The headset is pressed right into the top of the (carbon) frame.

    I have about an inch of spacers under my stem, I was stoked to be able to decide where to cut my steerer tube to allow for proper bar height without having to result in a riser stem, or riser bars (which I've done on several previous bikes.) Bar height is certainly a personal preference thing. I find that it helps with downhill, as well as jumping over obstacles on the trail. But it also feels better on my lower back (which has had surgery.)

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by turfnsurf View Post
    Vik - The headset is pressed right into the top of the (carbon) frame.
    I was asking about the BB.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  22. #222
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    Oh my bad! Yes same thing at
    BB, no metal embedded into carbon, just plain Carbon Fiber. A little scary pressing my BB into frame with a home made press. One of the Pivot guys told me he's seen the frames shatter when BB gets pressed in cockeyed!

  23. #223
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    Re: Mach 6 Review Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by turfnsurf View Post
    Oh my bad! Yes same thing at
    BB, no metal embedded into carbon, just plain Carbon Fiber. A little scary pressing my BB into frame with a home made press. One of the Pivot guys told me he's seen the frames shatter when BB gets pressed in cockeyed!
    Now, what was wrong with the threaded BB?

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    Now, what was wrong with the threaded BB?
    Nothing! One of my main gripes is the PFBB, second to the 12" of internal cable routing!

  25. #225
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    Just called every pivot dealer in the SF Bay area trying to find a Large or XL mach 6 to demo or test in the parking lot, and I finally found a place that had a Large built up. I had been riding a Mojo SL Large, and sometimes wondered if a larger frame would have been better (mainly on climbs). I am 6'1" and have decided that the Large frame is too small. Felt like I was crammed in the cockpit, and the guy at the shop thought i looked hunched over and suggested the XL. Now, I have the XL Stealth on order and will hopefully have it built soon!

  26. #226
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    Congrats, you are going to love it!

  27. #227
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    From the few previous posts it sounds like everyone would recommend an XL for my 6'2" frame with a 34-35" cycling inseam...

    My Cannondale Scalpel 29er is a size L, and has a 24.3in top tube that I run with a 90 stem. The stock 110mm was an endo-maker for sure on jumps/drops. Sounds like the XL with its 25.3in top tube and a 35 stem would still shorten things up a bit and put the bar a little higher...

    Nobody seems to have an XL Mach 6 near here to demo or rent so I'm flying a little blind... Curious to know everyone's thoughts.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
    From the few previous posts it sounds like everyone would recommend an XL for my 6'2" frame with a 34-35" cycling inseam...

    My Cannondale Scalpel 29er is a size L, and has a 24.3in top tube that I run with a 90 stem. The stock 110mm was an endo-maker for sure on jumps/drops. Sounds like the XL with its 25.3in top tube and a 35 stem would still shorten things up a bit and put the bar a little higher...

    Nobody seems to have an XL Mach 6 near here to demo or rent so I'm flying a little blind... Curious to know everyone's thoughts.
    My thoughts are you should stop thinking so much about it and just buy one. Not one day have I ever regretted buying my Mach 6. Four of my riding buddies have since bought one as well. They all have thanked me for introducing them to Pivot Cycles. You're welcome!

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
    From the few previous posts it sounds like everyone would recommend an XL for my 6'2" frame with a 34-35" cycling inseam...

    My Cannondale Scalpel 29er is a size L, and has a 24.3in top tube that I run with a 90 stem. The stock 110mm was an endo-maker for sure on jumps/drops. Sounds like the XL with its 25.3in top tube and a 35 stem would still shorten things up a bit and put the bar a little higher...

    Nobody seems to have an XL Mach 6 near here to demo or rent so I'm flying a little blind... Curious to know everyone's thoughts.
    I'm 6'1" with 34 inseam and my XL w/ a 50mm stem is perfect. Love the fit. Do it.

  30. #230
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    Awesome. Thanks. Hoping to pick one up in September after earning a little extra cash and healing up from surgery..

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
    From the few previous posts it sounds like everyone would recommend an XL for my 6'2" frame with a 34-35" cycling inseam...

    My Cannondale Scalpel 29er is a size L, and has a 24.3in top tube that I run with a 90 stem. The stock 110mm was an endo-maker for sure on jumps/drops. Sounds like the XL with its 25.3in top tube and a 35 stem would still shorten things up a bit and put the bar a little higher...

    Nobody seems to have an XL Mach 6 near here to demo or rent so I'm flying a little blind... Curious to know everyone's thoughts.
    I am 5-10 but have fairly long legs and arms. Pivot recommends a M based on my height but I bought a L so I could run a 50mm stem with wide bars. It fits perfect. At your height I can't imagine a L would fit well, unless you want to set it up like an XC racer with a long stem. But then you will miss out on what makes this a great bike: pretty good climber, a bomber on the descents. Have fun with it!

  32. #232
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    Sounds like XL is probably the winner for me. Now I just need to figure out whether it's Mach 6 or Nomad... Good thing I've got a few more weeks of recovery time to think about it.

  33. #233
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    Mach 6 Review Thread

    I'm going to drag this thread back from the dead just to say that after 7 mos. and 1,200 mi I still love my Mach 6. It's getting even better lately now that I'm getting it totally dialed in.

    Some key tweaks I feel have made a big difference in dialing it in are:
    - 760mm wide bars: feel so much better than my original 710mm bars
    - Pike 150mm: I tried a Fox 36 160mm for a few weeks but for the way I ride the Pike is better
    - Minion DHR2 tires: I've been running one in the rear for 3 mos. and it has the best traction I've ever experienced...especially braking and it's reasonably light. I just now replaced my HR2 on the front with another DHR2. I've read a lot of good things about it on the front, so I'm anxious to try it on the trail

  34. #234
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    +1! Went backwards today with the spacer, but it's still the first bike I've ever owned that I didn't want to sell after 6 mos. It's so good downhill. Tons of front end traction, balanced handling in fast corners, it climbs like a xc bike, and it's not a [enter big bad bike company that you see everywhere].

  35. #235
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    Mach 6 Review Thread

    And it's drop dead gorgeous in blue or black.

  36. #236
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    Indeed!!

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    Personal tweeks on my Mach 6

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal-Rider View Post
    I'm going to drag this thread back from the dead just to say that after 7 mos. and 1,200 mi I still love my Mach 6. It's getting even better lately now that I'm getting it totally dialed in.

    Some key tweaks I feel have made a big difference in dialing it in are:
    - 760mm wide bars: feel so much better than my original 710mm bars
    - Pike 150mm: I tried a Fox 36 160mm for a few weeks but for the way I ride the Pike is better
    - Minion DHR2 tires: I've been running one in the rear for 3 mos. and it has the best traction I've ever experienced...especially braking and it's reasonably light. I just now replaced my HR2 on the front with another DHR2. I've read a lot of good things about it on the front, so I'm anxious to try it on the trail
    I agree with the above post. After many hours on the bike it is still a great bike. Here is what I've done:
    -780mm bars
    -DHR2 tires: Love 'em! Best all around tires I've tried
    -Avalanche tuned suspension: Retuned shock with the modified CTD switch. SSD oil bath damper in the fork. I was a little worried about replacing the Charger damper but didn't need to be. Avalanche made a really good bike significantly better. The Pike is a much better fork than the Fox 34, but still to much brake dive at the top of the stroke. The shock always wallowed around in the mid stroke to much. The Avalanche tune keeps the bike up in it's travel with no wallowing or diveiness (is there such a word?) yet is still very plush and supportive at high and low speed. Great stuff!:
    -Thompson stealth dropper
    -The cable routing still sucks, but that is a minor flaw

  38. #238
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    Just finished building mine....

    [/URL]

    [/URL]

  39. #239
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    Looks great. I looked at your Photobucket pics. Do you have a crack in the cable stop and some chipping on the pivot joint?

  40. #240
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    Yes there was a crack, I notice the crack before building it, took it to my LBS and they got me a new rear triangle (covered by Pivot's warranty)



    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    Looks great. I looked at your Photobucket pics. Do you have a crack in the cable stop and some chipping on the pivot joint?

  41. #241
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    I'm just on 6'3" and I have an XL and I wouldn't go smaller. Feels like the right size to crank out the miles and have a lot of mine on the downhills. My buddy is 6'2" and he also bought a XL - so I'd say lock it in.

  42. #242
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    Stealthy

  43. #243
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    Waiting for new Derby rims to get laced with my new Hadleys. Was running HRII 2.4 up front and Ardent 2.4 in rear. Was thinking i should swap out rear to Ardent 2.25. What do you guys think? Is it worth the trouble or wait until the 2.4 wears out?

  44. #244
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    Has anyone ridden or owned a Knolly before the Mach 6? I'm currently on a Warden which is a great bike but looking for something lighter and quicker on the climbs .

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomad8604 View Post
    Has anyone ridden or owned a Knolly before the Mach 6? I'm currently on a Warden which is a great bike but looking for something lighter and quicker on the climbs .
    I had a Warden on order back in 2013 and cancelled that order to get a Mach 6. I have friends with Wardens. I've had a short test ride, but nothing substantive.

    I really like the efficiency of the DW Link for a one-bike-to-rule-them-all solution. Light and quickness on climbs is what sold me on the Mach 6.

    The Warden looks like a sweet bike and if I could afford a second bling ride I'd try one, but that's not in the cards.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  46. #246
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    Thanks for the reply . Do you have an aggressive build ? If so what's the weight ?

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomad8604 View Post
    Thanks for the reply . Do you have an aggressive build ? If so what's the weight ?
    https://vikapproved.wordpress.com/20...-pivot-mach-6/

    Just under 28lbs. Gets ridden on steep and techy coastal BC terrain which I think stacks up well against pretty much anything out there.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrPete View Post
    Awesome. Thanks. Hoping to pick one up in September after earning a little extra cash and healing up from surgery..
    That's what I did. It was my healing celebratory present to myself. A hell of an upgrade from anything I'd ever ridden before, the nicest being my Hardrock.

    I don't track my riding miles, but I've loved every inch of them on the M6! It does everything so well: corners like a gazelle, climbs both steady and technical like a goat, claws its way through and over rocks like a tiger, jumps like a jackrabbit, floats like a butterfly, lands with the grace of a swan, and continues downhill like a rolling stone shredding whatever you throw at it.
    Live like there's no tomorrow. But pay your bills just in case there is.

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    I just did a weight check with my current component list and Im looking at 26 lbs. This includes pedals but not cables , sealant, etc. Is this crazy low for an XL Frame build or pretty common. Shit if I could get it to 27-28 I would be amped.

  50. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomad8604 View Post
    I just did a weight check with my current component list and Im looking at 26 lbs. This includes pedals but not cables , sealant, etc. Is this crazy low for an XL Frame build or pretty common. Shit if I could get it to 27-28 I would be amped.
    My medium stock XX1 build kit came in at 26.9lbs complete with sealant and Shimano 540 pedals.

    To answer your question of Warden vs. M6, M6 all the way (though I am biased). Prior to being employed at Pivot, I was an ambassador for Knolly. I had a gen1 Endorphin, gen2 Endorphin, Chilcotin and a Podium. Although I don't have much time on the Warden, I spent 6 years exclusively on Knolly's. I was convinced they were the best bikes, period. Until my opportunity at Pivot, I never would have given the Mach6 a chance. Once I threw a leg over one though, I was sold. This bike can flat out fly. Compared to the gen2 Endo (which is claimed to be a more spirited climber vs the Warden), the M6 climbs better, faster, and with better traction. I live in Phoenix, so I don't have any fire road like climbs, everything we do here is technical. The M6 with the 2015 Fox 36 measures out at 65 degree HA with my phone. The Endo was 67. The M6 doesn't wander even a little on the steeps, and I'm running a shorter stem on it. I'm amazed at how composed this bike climbs. It just hooks up on everything, and my legs are more fresh at the top of the climb than the Knolly, some of it due to the weight and some due to the efficiency.

    On the descent, an area I honestly expected this bike to suffer compared to a Knolly, but this bike rips. It has a slightly shorter wheelbase making for a more flickable bike, being carbon and having super short rockers, its stiff as hell yet very complaint. The DW link maintains its momentum better when it gets chunky. The bike stays on top of the chatter vs sinking into it like a Knolly. A different approach, but in my opinion makes for a faster ride. The M6 is easily as plush as the Knolly, but responds incredibly to out of the saddle efforts, where the Knolly will bog down a bit.

    The other area that I think the M6 excels at is cornering. I'm by no means a confident cornering guy, but the M6 is an easier bike to ride IMO. The geometry puts you in more naturally in the center of the bike, making cornering easier since you don't need to shift your weight as much. The bike is just easier to ride, and ride fast.

    Obviously I am heavily biased, so take what I say with a grain of salt. However if you were to ask my riding partners about the improvements in my riding since getting the M6 they will agree. I have a few guys converting to M6s hoping they can keep pace

    Good luck.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

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