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  1. #1
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    I was all about 27.5 and now Im like not so much

    ok so the 650b/27.5 bikes have intrigued me. I liked the idea until I really started trying to understand the science behind it. My pivot mach 5.7 has mountain king 2.4s in the front (measuring 27.25) and Xkings in the rear at 27.00. From what I have read most of the 27.5 bikes are measuring 27.00-28.00 inchs in diameter. Unless im missing something where is this benefit in going to the 27.5 inch option? Larger OD rim, with a smaller sidewall tire to net 27.5inchs? If this is the case I cant see how the 27.5 bikes are making much sense over a 26 inch bike.

  2. #2
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    Honestly, I think that you should not discount 27.5 until you try it. I also did notice that with high volume tires, the diameter on 26" rims is closer to 27". And certain 27.5 bikes have a diameter closer to 27 than 27.5.

    But still, let your butt tell you how it feels and if 27.5 is an improvement.
    Last edited by Vespasianus; 10-26-2013 at 09:19 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by barry1me View Post
    ok so the 650b/27.5 bikes have intrigued me. I liked the idea until I really started trying to understand the science behind it. My pivot mach 5.7 has mountain king 2.4s in the front (measuring 27.25) and Xkings in the rear at 27.00. From what I have read most of the 27.5 bikes are measuring 27.00-28.00 inchs in diameter. Unless im missing something where is this benefit in going to the 27.5 inch option? Larger OD rim, with a smaller sidewall tire to net 27.5inchs? If this is the case I cant see how the 27.5 bikes are making much sense over a 26 inch bike.
    The difference in rim diameter between 26" and 650B is 18mm (.71") , so with the same model tire, the difference in wheel diameter will be that same measurement.

    Both wheel sizes, 26" and 27.5", are misnomers. With average tires, 26" wheels are bigger than 26", while 27.5" wheels are smaller.

    There is a slight, but noticeable difference in ride characteristics with 650B, but the reason I would go that way is to future-proof my ride, but I keep my bikes a long time. I really see the industry going to just two wheel sizes eventually, and one of them isn't going to be 26".
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  4. #4
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    OP: Have you ridden one? It seems like you're posting a lot of questions and suppositions. That's fine, this being the interwebz and all. But, really, just go ride a couple bikes and make your own decision.

  5. #5
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    Yo can't just compare 26 tall tires to 27.5 wheels/tires

    I really can't see how can a 2.4 tire would be fast roller, 27.5 wheelset and 2.1 fast rolling tires would make a huge difference.

    What if I get 27.5 wheels and get huge tires approaching 29", that wouldn't make much sense either
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    OP: Have you ridden one? It seems like you're posting a lot of questions and suppositions. That's fine, this being the interwebz and all. But, really, just go ride a couple bikes and make your own decision.
    I rode a SC solo or 5010 in the parking lot, but not a trail. I do need to spend some time on one, I am all for new technology but to buy into it, it has to make sense on the physics side of things for me.

    If I got a 27.5 bike it would be more of an AM bike then an XC bike, so I would run higher volume tires like I have on my mach 5.7. Im confused on how it would feel any better then my 26er with 27.25 inch tires on it right now.....both have similar diamater tires, difference would be a smaller side wall on the 27.5 and a .75" larger radius on the rim then the 26er. But if your overall tire diamater is the same how can it perform any different? Shouldnt the taller side wall tire on a 26er have a more compliant ride? a 26 inch rim would be more stiff then a 27.5 inch rim!? right?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by barry1me View Post
    I rode a SC solo or 5010 in the parking lot, but not a trail. I do need to spend some time on one, I am all for new technology but to buy into it, it has to make sense on the physics side of things for me.

    If I got a 27.5 bike it would be more of an AM bike then an XC bike, so I would run higher volume tires like I have on my mach 5.7. Im confused on how it would feel any better then my 26er with 27.25 inch tires on it right now.....both have similar diamater tires, difference would be a smaller side wall on the 27.5 and a .75" larger radius on the rim then the 26er. But if your overall tire diamater is the same how can it perform any different? Shouldnt the taller side wall tire on a 26er have a more compliant ride? a 26 inch rim would be more stiff then a 27.5 inch rim!? right?
    You're hung up on the number, 27.5, which really has nothing to do with anything.

    Like I said right up there ^, the difference in diameter between 26" and 650B, WITH THE SAME MODEL TIRE, is .71" - so, if you run the same model tire that you are now, except in 650B, it's going to measure ~27.95".

    I don't get why you are trying to compare two different tires, on two different wheel sizes, just to arrive at an arbitrary diameter.
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  8. #8
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    I was all about 27.5 and now Im like not so much

    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    You're hung up on the number, 27.5, which really has nothing to do with anything.

    Like I said right up there ^, the difference in diameter between 26" and 650B, WITH THE SAME MODEL TIRE, is .71" - so, if you run the same model tire that you are now, except in 650B, it's going to measure ~27.95".

    I don't get why you are trying to compare two different tires, on two different wheel sizes, just to arrive at an arbitrary diameter.
    Actually, the difference is 25mm/0.984"
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Actually, the difference is 25mm/0.984"
    You're right. I was looking at ERD not BSD on a couple of rims.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    You're hung up on the number, 27.5, which really has nothing to do with anything.

    Like I said right up there ^, the difference in diameter between 26" and 650B, WITH THE SAME MODEL TIRE, is .71" - so, if you run the same model tire that you are now, except in 650B, it's going to measure ~27.95".

    I don't get why you are trying to compare two different tires, on two different wheel sizes, just to arrive at an arbitrary diameter.
    I get why you are buying into the idea is to future proof your ride, makes sense. Besides that I cant make sense of this. Xking 2.2 26er is at 27.1" with 25psi in the tire, maxxis highroller 2 on a solo was 27.5" with 25psi in it. for .4" taller height I cant see how my novice abilities will notice that. It very well may well though. I think I would be better off putting a 650b rim/tire on my mach 5.7 to future proof this bike.

  11. #11
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    One of the mags recently ran an article which broken down all of the wheel sizes into comparisons of actual sizes and not just nominal. Sorry, can't remember which...maybe it was Switchback.

    Basically it said what other in this post have. There is really not that big a difference between 26" and 27.5" when you look at how manufacturers are kind of vague with their true sizes.

    I typically ride a 29er. I mostly ride XC and trail. For a long time I kept my 26" bike built up thinking I would ride it from time to time. After I made the switch, I rode my 26" one more time. It was clear it was much slower, blah blah blah.

    I recently rode a buddies 27.5" bike. It was more of an enduro setup than I am used to, but I don't feel like it felt as sluggish as my 26" bike. Maybe it was the setup or maybe it was the extra 3/4", not really sure. I think if I rode more downhill or enduro style riding, I could see how the 27.5" bike might feel a bit better.
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  12. #12
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    ya I have a 29er Epic and I love it, but I have the Mach 5,7 for more of a fun trail bike. I agree the 29er is faster and what not.

  13. #13
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    My 27.5 tires measure well over 28.
    There is math you can use.
    It's not just volume, but increased tire patch/contact patch.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    The difference in rim diameter between 26" and 650B is 18mm (.71") , so with the same model tire, the difference in wheel diameter will be that same measurement.

    Both wheel sizes, 26" and 27.5", are misnomers. With average tires, 26" wheels are bigger than 26", while 27.5" wheels are smaller.

    There is a slight, but noticeable difference in ride characteristics with 650B, but the reason I would go that way is to future-proof my ride, but I keep my bikes a long time. I really see the industry going to just two wheel sizes eventually, and one of them isn't going to be 26".
    Your numbers are wrong
    The overall diameter of a 26" rim is 559mm.
    The overall diameter of a 650b rim is 584mm.
    The difference is 25mm which is pretty damn close to an inch (25.4mm).
    Please be careful what you post as some people will believe you.

    Riding a 650b with my wtb wolverine 2.2 is over 27.75". My nobby Nic at 2.35 is 28-13/16". - real close to 28".

    Hope that helps.
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  15. #15
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    barry1me - per above, you really need to demo a 27.5 bike on one of your home trails to form an opinion you'll be comfortable with. The ride difference is subtle (unlike your 29er); you'll notice the bigger wheels at first, then you get into your groove and it feels like a 26, just faster, a little bit more grab in the corners, and a tad bit more stable over the chunder. I've demo'ed a few now and liked them quite a lot. My take it is if you love your current 26 (like I love my 5.7C), ride it until you either need to get a new rig or are ready to upgrade. If one doesn't love their bike, then sell it now and order up a Mach 6. :^)

  16. #16
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    I was all about 27.5 and now Im like not so much

    I have been a long time user (Fanboy) if Conti tires and have been contemplating a 650 wheel build for my Firebird. I run a Rubber Queen 2.4 in the front on a Mavic rim. This tire measured 27". The 2.2 xKings that I use over our dry summers measure right at 26". I have a 2.4 XKing and it measures out just under 27" on the same 26" rim. Can you post pics of your tire sizes.

  17. #17
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    My wife's 27.5 is just about 28" with Nobby Nics.

    I thought I wanted a 27.5 too, until I rode a 429.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mederz View Post
    Your numbers are wrong
    The overall diameter of a 26" rim is 559mm.
    The overall diameter of a 650b rim is 584mm.
    The difference is 25mm which is pretty damn close to an inch (25.4mm).
    Please be careful what you post as some people will believe you.
    That's not quite correct. Please be careful what you post...

    BSD refers to Bead Seat Diameter. This is not the overall diameter, rather the diameter of the location where the tire bead lands on the rim. Here's a diagram.

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    BSD for -

    26" = 559mm
    650B = 584mm
    29" = 622mm
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  19. #19
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    despite the numbers... most people who have actually ridden 27.5 notice a small, but significant difference. I am one of them..

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    Agreed.
    I spent two days at a NEMBA fest demoing bikes, with the intention of confirming my desire for a 650B. I was also convinced that 29ers were for people who didn't appreciate the joys of flicking their 26er over and around things. After more than 12 hours of demo rides, my fantasy of what a 650b should be was broken.
    I ended up buying a 429c xx1, it is very flickable, rolls over everything, and grips demonstrably better than any of my old 26ers.

  21. #21
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    I own a 26" Firebird. The idea of converting it to 27.5 seems like a big waste of money. If I didn't already own the Firebird, then buying the 27.5 would make sense. Why not right? Any little advantage is great. As a result, I have concluded the following:
    1. Converting a 26" to 27.5 is not worth the financial investment, given the slight advantage.
    2. Buying a new bike I would choose 27.5 over 26"
    3. A long travel 29er will trump all, and hopefully Pivot is working on something in this category.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevanlloyd View Post
    3. A long travel 29er will trump all, and hopefully Pivot is working on something in this category.
    Not necessarily. That's a false assumption. Depends on you, your riding preferences, terrain choice, and suspension needs.
    Pivot has the 429 already, but for some, the chain stays are too long, bike is sluggish in tight terrain, and is hard to wheelie....for others, it's just right.
    There are reasons beyond conspiracy theories that we are going through this wheel size 'revolution' (heh...). It's because everyone is a little different, which is good.
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    If it "depends on you, your riding preferences, terrain choice, and suspension needs" then how can my assumption be false? My assumption, after 3 years of riding a 29er, is that once Pivot figures out the geometry, a long travel 29er will be the ultimate trail bike. I demoed a Specialized Enduro 29er and they are on to something. That bike is breaking new ground. I have no doubt that with Chris's knowledge and the DW technology, a nimble long travel 29er is possible. For now, I'll stick with my Firebird and a couple of 29er XC bikes.

  24. #24
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    Logic isn't your major.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Logic isn't your major.
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    I stuffed 650s into my Mach 5 and don't see much of a diff. I ride it and I'm like "meh".

    But my 5.7 is the shit. I would be so sad to see 26" bikes go away because a bunch of stupid lambs running into a marketing buzz saw and screwing it up for the rest of us.

    Tires on the 650 are racing Ralph front and nobby nic rear and I have Conti 2.4 mountain kings on the 5.7

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    Quote Originally Posted by cas-pa2 View Post
    I stuffed 650s into my Mach 5 and don't see much of a diff. I ride it and I'm like "meh".

    But my 5.7 is the shit. I would be so sad to see 26" bikes go away because a bunch of stupid lambs running into a marketing buzz saw and screwing it up for the rest of us.

    Tires on the 650 are racing Ralph front and nobby nic rear and I have Conti 2.4 mountain kings on the 5.7
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  29. #29
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    Im sure some 650B setups are 28-28.2 range but the solo with 650 2.3 HR2s is 27.5, and most of the Giant 650 bikes are 27.5 range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aevanlloyd View Post
    My assumption, after 3 years of riding a 29er, is that once Pivot figures out the geometry, a long travel 29er will be the ultimate trail bike. I demoed a Specialized Enduro 29er and they are on to something. That bike is breaking new ground. I have no doubt that with Chris's knowledge and the DW technology, a nimble long travel 29er is possible. For now, I'll stick with my Firebird and a couple of 29er XC bikes.
    I agree. The SC Bronson and Norco Sight I demo'd were mediocre at best compared to my Nomad. My next trail bike will be a Enduro/WFO9/Lenz style 150mm 29er. 29" wheeled big trail bikes are the future.

  31. #31
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    Road a 27.5 for the first time. Nothing but a glorified 26er. Back to my carbon 29er post haste

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Says the sheep staying safe with the herd.
    That's hilarious coming from someone who buys off the shelf bikes to someone who bought a pair of rims and tires on their custom back up bike.

    My point was people going head first into the pool on 650s with marginal difference and abandoning a perfectly good platform is just dumb but so are you.

    Lets face it different wheel sizes are a way the industry sells more stuff and is kinda like the annual bike release when not much changes and we all feel like last years stuff is outdated.

  33. #33
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    Plus 1 on that cas-pa2! ! I have a 2013 stumpy 29 and it shreds ...But every now and again I still become intrigued with my blur Ltc and take her for a rip...After demoing the Bronson ..it wasn't leaps and bounds ahead of the good ol LTC. .Guess I was expecting more ....Meh

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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cas-pa2 View Post
    That's hilarious coming from someone who buys off the shelf bikes to someone who bought a pair of rims and tires on their custom back up bike.

    My point was people going head first into the pool on 650s with marginal difference and abandoning a perfectly good platform is just dumb but so are you.

    Lets face it different wheel sizes are a way the industry sells more stuff and is kinda like the annual bike release when not much changes and we all feel like last years stuff is outdated.

    Yup Mach 5's are pure custom.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by cas-pa2 View Post
    Tires on the 650 are racing Ralph front and nobby nic rear and I have Conti 2.4 mountain kings on the 5.7
    LOL - I've got all those tires and trying to compare 2.4 TKs to the those Schwalbes is crazy talk. Like bringing a steak knife to a chainsaw fight and then blaming the steak knife for losing.

    This is why I am not a fan of hacking bikes to make wheels fit that they weren't designed for - you end up compromising the design and get mixed results. Having to run skinny rubber or screwing with the BB height, etc... That doesn't tell you if 650B wheels are good thing or not. It just tells you whether hacking your specific bike is a good idea. In a lot of cases it isn't.
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    Ha, just let your kit builds from Richard Swinyard & Rob Roskopp tell you that X7 derailleurs are just fine.

    I'm pretty sure there are more people, like me, who buy Pivots as a frame then the stuff you ride.

  37. #37
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    I think the reason 650b is so easily accepted is because there isn't much difference, the reason people want it is because the marketing has been so good.

    Is there a difference? A little bit, just like there is a difference between two different 26inch bikes. There is also more then the wheel size that makes 650b different, most have a longer top tube and lower BB.

    Tires also make a difference, a shitty 650b tire on a 650b bike would be worse then a good 26 tires on a 26 bike.

    I have a mach 5.7 and fb, I've ridden the Mach 6. All are great bikes.

    I've also ridden the Bronson, Range 650b, Altitude 650b. All are different. All have strengths and weakness.

    Best reason to buy one if you are looking, is as has been mentioned, potential resale.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by cas-pa2 View Post
    Ha, just let your kit builds from Richard Swinyard & Rob Roskopp tell you that X7 derailleurs are just fine.

    I'm pretty sure there are more people, like me, who buy Pivots as a frame then the stuff you ride.
    So you have an off the shelf frame, with off the shelf parts, that you picked instead of the manufacturer and that is a custom bike? Well then I have news for you, mine is/were all custom except the SJ, didn't have it long enough, but it was semi-custom.
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    Ha u got to build the frame as well or manipulate it in some way for it to be truly custom..Just ask Jesse James!! Lol

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  40. #40
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    I've only bought frames and always pic the components I want to use..But that still isn't custom..

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bohns1 View Post
    Ha u got to build the frame as well or manipulate it in some way for it to be truly custom..Just ask Jesse James!! Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by bohns1 View Post
    I've only bought frames and always pic the components I want to use..But that still isn't custom..

    Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk
    I know that, but somehow cas-pa2 thinks hanging parts on a frame you buy is a custom bike. Kinda funny, how much he assumed about mine when making his comment.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodiegrrl View Post
    I think the reason 650b is so easily accepted is because there isn't much difference, the reason people want it is because the marketing has been so good.

    Is there a difference? A little bit, just like there is a difference between two different 26inch bikes. There is also more then the wheel size that makes 650b different, most have a longer top tube and lower BB.

    Tires also make a difference, a shitty 650b tire on a 650b bike would be worse then a good 26 tires on a 26 bike.

    I have a mach 5.7 and fb, I've ridden the Mach 6. All are great bikes.

    I've also ridden the Bronson, Range 650b, Altitude 650b. All are different. All have strengths and weakness.

    Best reason to buy one if you are looking, is as has been mentioned, potential resale.
    I've played around with tires and wheel sizes a fair bit. I noticed a significant difference even with a 26er going from a "normal" 2.3" tire to a 2.4" TK which is closer to a 2.5" tire. Overall 20mm height difference and the ability to roll through rough sections without losing momentum and getting hung up is amazing. Every single person who has tried the change has noticed the same thing. One issue of Bike Magazine where they got to pick there dream bikes...a lot of them were running 2.4" TKs...I'm not surprised...size matters...

    It's worth noting I came to this realization not looking for it. I was just swapping tires with the change of seasons and was surprised at the difference in performance so I paid some attention to what was different.

    650B let's you get that same roll through without resorting to an 1100g tire or if you want even better roll through you can put a 650b x 2.4" TK on your bike - depending what's more important to you.

    I don't think 650B is the magic bullet for everybody or every location, but the impact of bigger wheels and rough terrain seems pretty straight forward to me living in a place with rough techy trails.

    I have owned a couple 29ers so I've gone tried a lot of different options. I suspect a really well designed 29er [Lenz] with short CS could also be a great choice, but there are compromises to be made as your wheels get that big.

    If my 26er wasn't coming up on 6yrs old I wouldn't be getting a new bike, but since I am I knew I'd be getting a 650B bike or a 29er.



    Front wheel above is my Velocity P35 + Trail King 2.4" tire off my Nomad in front of a friend's stock Bronson wheel...not sure what rim, but it's a Maxxis High Roller II 650B x 2.3" tire.
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  43. #43
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    The geo changes on 2013-14 29ers are awesome ..I demoed the new specialized enduro 29 with the uber short chainstays and can't believe there engineering pulled that off. .I am a Santa Cruz guy and to me that enduro inspired more confidence than the tallboy lt. I believe that is the beginning of the future in terms of what spec has done with that enduro. .650 just wasn't that big of difference for me to justify the upgrade..But after riding that enduro It's not going to matter to me much anymore what any manufacturer does with 650!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I know that, but somehow cas-pa2 thinks hanging parts on a frame you buy is a custom bike. Kinda funny, how much he assumed about mine when making his comment.
    Sorry I must have missed the announcement from Pivot on a 140mm travel 650b XC oriented bike because that's what I have. A M5 with 650 wheels and judging from forum posts no one else has that.

    That's how you started to warp my comment my custom comment. But I'm glad your pettiness has corrected me. I will now go look on the Pivot site for their XC 650b.

    The point of this thread is and that I can tell you, based on experience on a 650 wheeled Pivot with DW link 140mm travel, vs. riding a 5.7 with 2.4 tires there is not much difference of on a 27.5 bike. And I agree with all of the feedback and data from the other posters like most recently from Brodiegrrl.

    I own a both of these and two tone you own neither. So get your little man and little member off the board. In fact looks like you are on the 29r platform because of its benefits so please go pick on your family or anyone else that will talk to you and leave the people on this forum to stay on topic.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cas-pa2 View Post
    Sorry I must have missed the announcement from Pivot on a 140mm travel 650b XC oriented bike because that's what I have. A M5 with 650 wheels and judging from forum posts no one else has that.

    That's how you started to warp my comment my custom comment. But I'm glad your pettiness has corrected me. I will now go look on the Pivot site for their XC 650b.

    The point of this thread is and that I can tell you, based on experience on a 650 wheeled Pivot with DW link 140mm travel, vs. riding a 5.7 with 2.4 tires there is not much difference of on a 27.5 bike. And I agree with all of the feedback and data from the other posters like most recently from Brodiegrrl.

    I own a both of these and two tone you own neither. So get your little man and little member off the board. In fact looks like you are on the 29r platform because of its benefits so please go pick on your family or anyone else that will talk to you and leave the people on this forum to stay on topic.
    I ride whats best for me, but nice try on the 29er slam. I tried to fit a 650B into my Felt years ago, but it didn't fit. So I tried a Jamis which I didn't like, so I went 29er because at the time it was the best fit. Now I'm looking again and I'll be riding a couple 650B and a short CS 29er to see which is best for me currently.

    You're the one that tried to flex his epeen with your off the shelf vs. custom comment. Followed up by you ******** about build specs and how more people buy Pivot frames to build vs. Santa Cruz.
    Tantrum incoming
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  46. #46
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    Highly suggest trying the spec enduro 29 with the short chainstays! ! Some call it cheating. .I call it severe game upage in the skills dept...The new short chain stays 29 geo destroys in my books..

    Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by bohns1 View Post
    Highly suggest trying the spec enduro 29 with the short chainstays! ! Some call it cheating. .I call it severe game upage in the skills dept...The new short chain stays 29 geo destroys in my books..

    Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk
    I could never own a Specialized - my friends wouldn't ride with me any more. Although I figure I could sue them for emotional damages and get a free bike out of the deal.

    I did try to get a test ride on one of the new super short CS Lenz bikes and got very close to making it happen when a heavy snowfall in Moab scuttled the plans. I figured I could easily have been swayed to a LT 29er based on what I have read about them, but I wanted some confirmation before dropping the $$ on it.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I could never own a Specialized - my friends wouldn't ride with me any more. Although I figure I could sue them for emotional damages and get a free bike out of the deal.

    I did try to get a test ride on one of the new super short CS Lenz bikes and got very close to making it happen when a heavy snowfall in Moab scuttled the plans. I figured I could easily have been swayed to a LT 29er based on what I have read about them, but I wanted some confirmation before dropping the $$ on it.
    I'm looking at an Atlas, like you I won't go back to a Specialized. I was temped by the Lenz and still considering it, but I like being able to have a FD on the Atlas if I need to.
    I'm trying 1x10 on current bike before I decide between the Lenz and Atlas.
    Tantrum incoming
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    I'm trying 1x10 on current bike before I decide between the Lenz and Atlas.
    Makes sense. I've got a couple years of 1 x 10 riding under my belt with a 32x36 low gear so I knew I would be okay without a front dérailleur.

    Lenz will make you a front dérailleur compatible bike. The CS aren't as short as the "Punk Ass" version, but they are still pretty short.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  50. #50
    Doc Holiday
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    To each there own I guess..I was always a SC guy myself Had a blur Ltc ..Sold it..Almost sprung for the tallboy lt ..That is until I rode the enduro..Never thought I'd go back to spec !! But since my lbs gave me a deal and they have a matte black enduro carbon 29..It will be my next rig .. The tallboy lt still has a bit of an Xc feel to it as well as still being sized on the smaller side even at xl. .The enduro just fits ..Plus ticks all my other boxes..

    Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

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