• 10-26-2012
    dan23
    Clarifying Mach 429 Tire Clearance - from Chris Cocalis
    Everyone:

    We have had some questions regarding this thread and wanted to go on a set the record straight. First, in general we designed the new 429 to clear a wide variety of tires. Below is a pretty comprehensive list of tires that fit the 429 Alloy frames without any issues. When we redesigned the 429 AL, the new rear triangle we increased stiffness by over 20% and maintained proper tire clearance for the category.

    We try our best to measure a wide variety of tires but (as most people know) sizes are all over the board and sometimes the height of the tire and the brand and/or width of rim that is used can create additional challenges. In the case of the Hanís Dampf, that tire is over 6mm taller than ANY other tire we tested regardless of stated size. It is not the widest tire but it doesnít fall into normal standards. However, as you can see from the below list, the WTB Weirwolf 2.55 clears and is actually lower in height (but wider in width) than some of the 2.2ís including the Slant 6. The Maxxis Ardent 2.35 also has great clearance. If you are looking for a more aggressive trail oriented tire for your current 429, there are some great choices and by no means is this the total list of tires that will fit. This is just our current list of tested and confirmed tires which will grow as we get more samples to check.

    If you are looking at buying a 429 aluminum, you can rest assured that we have sold thousands of these bikes with the new design and have not had negative feedback as to tire clearance issues. We did experience a very small number of frames that went out without the proper tire clearance that only affected a handful of customers. We took care of these immediately and as far as we know, all bikes in the market should be at the proper specification. If anyone has an issue with clearance on any of the tires listed below, please contact us directly and we will correct the situation. As always, we stand behind our products and want our customers to know that we are here to help if questions arise.

    Hutchinson Cobra 2.25 tubeless
    Kenda Slant Six 2.2
    Kenda Honey Badger 2.2
    WTB Wolverine 2.2 tubeless
    WTB Bronson 2.2 tubeless
    WTB Stout 2.3
    WTB Weirwolf 2.55
    Maxxis Ardent 2.35 tubeless
    Maxxis Ikon 2.2
    Conti Race King 2.2
    Conti Mountain King 2.2
    Specialized Eskar 2.3 tubeless
    Specialized Purgatory 2.2 tubeless


    Sincerely,
    Chris Cocalis
  • 10-26-2012
    schneidw
    This is very informative post. Thank you for sharing this well balanced list of tires that will fit nearly any terrain... As a 2010 429 owner, I have admitted envy of the statement 20% stiffer, especially after reading the frame is nearly 0.5 lbs lighter too.. . Great refinements by Pivot... showing their commitment to value-engineering and focusing on the important aspects "ride quality and performance"

    Lets please keep this threat alive and contribute to the tire list... I would propose the moderator add this post as a STICKY..

    Have a great ride this weekend..
  • 10-26-2012
    tiSS'er
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    Everyone:

    We have had some questions regarding this thread and wanted to go on a set the record straight. First, in general we designed the new 429 to clear a wide variety of tires. Below is a pretty comprehensive list of tires that fit the 429 Alloy frames without any issues. When we redesigned the 429 AL, the new rear triangle we increased stiffness by over 20% and maintained proper tire clearance for the category.

    We try our best to measure a wide variety of tires but (as most people know) sizes are all over the board and sometimes the height of the tire and the brand and/or width of rim that is used can create additional challenges. In the case of the Hanís Dampf, that tire is over 6mm taller than ANY other tire we tested regardless of stated size. It is not the widest tire but it doesnít fall into normal standards. However, as you can see from the below list, the WTB Weirwolf 2.55 clears and is actually lower in height (but wider in width) than some of the 2.2ís including the Slant 6. The Maxxis Ardent 2.35 also has great clearance. If you are looking for a more aggressive trail oriented tire for your current 429, there are some great choices and by no means is this the total list of tires that will fit. This is just our current list of tested and confirmed tires which will grow as we get more samples to check.

    If you are looking at buying a 429 aluminum, you can rest assured that we have sold thousands of these bikes with the new design and have not had negative feedback as to tire clearance issues. We did experience a very small number of frames that went out without the proper tire clearance that only affected a handful of customers. We took care of these immediately and as far as we know, all bikes in the market should be at the proper specification. If anyone has an issue with clearance on any of the tires listed below, please contact us directly and we will correct the situation. As always, we stand behind our products and want our customers to know that we are here to help if questions arise.

    Hutchinson Cobra 2.25 tubeless
    Kenda Slant Six 2.2
    Kenda Honey Badger 2.2
    WTB Wolverine 2.2 tubeless
    WTB Bronson 2.2 tubeless
    WTB Stout 2.3
    WTB Weirwolf 2.55
    Maxxis Ardent 2.35 tubeless
    Maxxis Ikon 2.2
    Conti Race King 2.2
    Conti Mountain King 2.2
    Specialized Eskar 2.3 tubeless
    Specialized Purgatory 2.2 tubeless


    Sincerely,
    Chris Cocalis

    If by fit you mean less than 1mm of clearance to the cross brace on the swingarm, OK. I put a Specialize Purg 2.2 and Captain 2.2. If my wheel were not perfectly round, it would rub.
  • 10-27-2012
    dog
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    If anyone has an issue with clearance on any of the tires listed below, please contact us directly and we will correct the situation.

    ... sounds like a promise to correct that to me... :confused:
  • 10-27-2012
    chargerfan
    I have a Ground Control 2.1 in the back and it does fit with a little daylight showing. I looked into switching out for the 2.3, but there is no way. That would have to be assigned to front tire duty.
  • 10-27-2012
    tiSS'er
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chargerfan View Post
    I have a Ground Control 2.1 in the back and it does fit with a little daylight showing. I looked into switching out for the 2.3, but there is no way. That would have to be assigned to front tire duty.

    Yep, my Ground Control 2.1 barely fit.
  • 10-29-2012
    29erBob
    You can add the Kenda Nevegal 29X2.2 to the list. The wheel has to be perfect, but it does fit and so does the Geax AKA 29X2.2, but with even less room to spare.
  • 10-31-2012
    SJDude
    In my opinion one of the detractors from the 29er platform especially at longer travel is the length of the wheelbase. A long wheelbase means a longer turn radius. Clearly shortening the chainstays will have a positive effect on this and on overall stiffness but there are always tradeoffs. The only other way to shorten the wheelbase is to steepen the head tube angle which also has drawbacks.

    Thanks for doing your best to address the issues Pivot. That's not a very long list of tires and for me would mean special ordering just to see if I like them. Expensive proposition. Hopefully you can find common ground between these issues on the 2013.
  • 11-26-2012
    insighter
    Anyone know whether the conti trail king 2.2 or schwalbe nobby nic 2.25 will fit?

    Thanks,

    Josh
  • 11-27-2012
    29erBob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by insighter View Post
    Anyone know whether the conti trail king 2.2 or schwalbe nobby nic 2.25 will fit?

    Thanks,

    Josh

    the Conti I think yes, but the Schwalbe is a sure no. The Schwalbe is a high volume tire and I'm sure will rub.
  • 11-27-2012
    insighter
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 29erBob View Post
    the Conti I think yes, but the Schwalbe is a sure no. The Schwalbe is a high volume tire and I'm sure will rub.

    Thanks for the response. Bummer on the NN. I sure like that tire.
    Just to clarify, is this the case on all the 429 frames from 2011 on? I.e., are there differences between the rear triangles for designs from 2011-present?

    And if someone is willing to digress, what is the difference between the 2011, 2012 and 2013 frames, if any?

    Thanks again,

    Josh
  • 11-27-2012
    kenbentit
    If you were to look at the original version 429's rear triangle you'd see that it used an "X" type bracing between the uprights(same with the Mach 5). That brace was made of sheet material and was relatively large. The new version uses a cross brace similar to what we've been using on the Firebird (and the same as the 5.7) which is more of an oval tube. This piece is much more compact than the "X" brace which is one place where we were able to trim some weight.
  • 11-27-2012
    29erBob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by insighter View Post
    Thanks for the response. Bummer on the NN. I sure like that tire.
    Just to clarify, is this the case on all the 429 frames from 2011 on? I.e., are there differences between the rear triangles for designs from 2011-present?

    And if someone is willing to digress, what is the difference between the 2011, 2012 and 2013 frames, if any?

    Thanks again,

    Josh

    I think the 2011 frame will accept the Schwalbe but I'm sure the 2012 will not.
  • 11-27-2012
    Jory
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 29erBob View Post
    You can add the Kenda Nevegal 29X2.2 to the list. The wheel has to be perfect, but it does fit and so does the Geax AKA 29X2.2, but with even less room to spare.

    Very true! I run the AKA 29x2.2 and if I put over 40 lbs of air in it (pavement riding) it rubs.

    While I appreciate Chris coming out and talking about this. I still think it's a MAJOR flaw.
  • 11-27-2012
    29erBob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jory View Post
    Very true! I run the AKA 29x2.2 and if I put over 40 lbs of air in it (pavement riding) it rubs.

    While I appreciate Chris coming out and talking about this. I still think it's a MAJOR flaw.

    Yes you are correct. I see that rubbing on the inner triangle as well. Very sad and from running the Schwalbe Hans Dampf 29X2.35 it's a massive disappointment. My 2012 frame is for sale as a result.
  • 11-28-2012
    gfs69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 29erBob View Post
    the Conti I think yes, but the Schwalbe is a sure no. The Schwalbe is a high volume tire and I'm sure will rub.

    I am currently running a 2.25 Nic now. I have run it between 27 and 29 psi on a Flow, and it does not rub. It is a bit close to the brace. I have ridden it thru a variety of terrain, including rocks, roots, and smooth trail. I am 6'6" and 230 pounds, riding an XL.
  • 11-28-2012
    insighter
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gfs69 View Post
    I am currently running a 2.25 Nic now. I have run it between 27 and 29 psi on a Flow, and it does not rub. It is a bit close to the brace. I have ridden it thru a variety of terrain, including rocks, roots, and smooth trail. I am 6'6" and 230 pounds, riding an XL.

    What year is your frame?
  • 11-28-2012
    29erBob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gfs69 View Post
    I am currently running a 2.25 Nic now. I have run it between 27 and 29 psi on a Flow, and it does not rub. It is a bit close to the brace. I have ridden it thru a variety of terrain, including rocks, roots, and smooth trail. I am 6'6" and 230 pounds, riding an XL.

    if you're running a 2011 frame the changes in the 2012 wouldn't effect you.
  • 11-28-2012
    gfs69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 29erBob View Post
    if you're running a 2011 frame the changes in the 2012 wouldn't effect you.

    2012 Frame
  • 11-28-2012
    29erBob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gfs69 View Post
    2012 Frame

    Do you have any pics of that close up to see the clearance near the cross member on the rear triangle. I can't get that tire to fit at all.
  • 11-28-2012
    gfs69
    I can't seem to get a good photo. I can try in the sunlight later. Like I said, it is close to the brace, but it doesn't rub. I would say there is between 2 and 3 mm. The tire isn't brand new, but very close to my new one on the front.
  • 11-29-2012
    DrDon
    In all fairness to Pivot, the Hans Dampf is a huge tire. My new AKA rubbed on hills when seated and my new Saguaro rubbed often. Because the clearance is so tight, tire choice, as previously mentioned, is a guessing game.
  • 11-29-2012
    gfs69
    1 Attachment(s)
    Nic 2.25
  • 11-29-2012
    insighter
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gfs69 View Post
    Nic 2.25

    Looks tight! Thanks for the pic.
  • 11-29-2012
    29erBob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gfs69 View Post
    Nic 2.25

    Not a breathe of room in there for rocks, sand, mud or poo. Looks like that does in fact rub a bit too based on what I see on the cross member. In the end, if you're happy that is all that matters. ;)
  • 12-27-2012
    fire_strom
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gfs69 View Post
    Nic 2.25

    Good shot. I have more clearance on a Lg 2011 frame with a N Nic 2.35" (on a Stan's Arch). 2.35" is excessive for the bike but the inability to run the 2.25 seems a shame.
    Scott
  • 12-28-2012
    knottshore
    This info is great, though disappointing- I was planning on purchasing a 2012 429 as I have missed my 2010 that I sold a while back (zero issues with multiple 2.25 tires and room for more on flows)-

    Has anyone had any issues with a RRalph on a Flow?

    Looks like I may need to look elsewhere- hopefully it is not left as "proper tire clearance for the category", what does this mean? I respect Chris for posting but after looking at some used 2012 429's and seeing the crazy amount of tire rub on a few it left me wondering...
  • 12-29-2012
    YamiRider1316
    Ugh i was pretty sold on the 429 for my next bike but these tire clearence issues are giving me second thoughts. Daaangit. We do get a fair amount of muck around here especially during the winter season and it would seem even with a tire that clears itll still be prone to clogging easy. Anybody wanna ease my piece of mind?
  • 12-29-2012
    DrDon
    I just put a Nobby Nic on the rear of my 12 with a few mm of clearance. I personally feel that an alloy short link bike from any manufacturer does not make for a good mud bike. My first gen 429 had plenty of clearance, but all the nooks and crannies would collect mud. My old carbon Tallboy and Scalpel cleared mud much better.
  • 12-29-2012
    DrDon
    Knottshore, i too returned to a 429 after selling my first. BTW, a RaRa will fit. The tire clearance issue is just a marketing ploy to get me to upgrade to a carbon version. I say NO to Pivot's crooked plot.
  • 12-29-2012
    fire_strom
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    I just put a Nobby Nic on the rear of my 12 with a few mm of clearance. I personally feel that an alloy short link bike from any manufacturer does not make for a good mud bike. My first gen 429 had plenty of clearance, but all the nooks and crannies would collect mud. My old carbon Tallboy and Scalpel cleared mud much better.

    2.25 or 2.35? Probably 2.25.
    G
  • 12-30-2012
    DrDon
    2.25. I have a 2.35 on the front of my SS. No way a tire that large will fit.
  • 01-07-2013
    knottshore
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    I just put a Nobby Nic on the rear of my 12 with a few mm of clearance. I personally feel that an alloy short link bike from any manufacturer does not make for a good mud bike. My first gen 429 had plenty of clearance, but all the nooks and crannies would collect mud. My old carbon Tallboy and Scalpel cleared mud much better.

    Thanks for the info on the 2.25 RR tire fit- on another note you went from a first gen 429 to a Tallboy & Scalpel (29?) and now back to a 2012 429... any comments on the comparisons? I have not thought about going to Carbon at this point but...
  • 01-07-2013
    fire_strom
    +1.
  • 01-07-2013
    DrDon
    My TB cracked twice, however SC has good CS. The seat tube on my Scalpel ovalized. Cannondale CS is not so good, but my LBS is outstanding. The TB was too active for me in mid stroke. The Scalpel had to be run with a lot of rebound. The Scalpel's headset, pivots and BB seem to require a little more maintenance. The Scalpel might be stiffer than the 429 - shocking! The 429's suspension is perfect yet I must say I could easily live with the other two bikes but I always worried about frame failure. The only carbon frame I would consider is a 429c. Why? I suspect it has been engineered to handle South Mtn chunk,day in, day out, with a larger than average cyclist or a "hammer". I feel many bikes are designed to cover up to the 85th percentile. Obviously pure conjecture on my part.
  • 01-28-2013
    DrDon
    update - my NN grew and now rubs when climbing steeps. I'm thinking of trying a MKII or Moto, but I don't want to spend the money and I had quality issues with both manufacturers. I would like to have a TNT Gato 2.1. I value security over weight in the winter.
  • 02-11-2013
    Hugor
    Oh no! I have just put a large deposit on a 2013 alloy frame and have just learnt of this issue.
    Any update on this tyre list for the 2013 model?
  • 02-25-2013
    jqr100
    Just recently purchased a 2013 aluminum frame....Rode a 2011 frame for almost 3 years and it had great tire clearance and I loved the bike, boy I should of done my homework first though. I called Pivot today and after playing dumb, suggesting I ride a different tire and finally being told that there was no issue with tire clearance I was actually told that tire clearance had actually increased over previous models! Not only did the rep play me as a fool he told me there was no guarantee that I could get my money back. I asked "what would be the reason why?" and he wouldn't give me an answer. Chris if that was indeed you earlier on this post I just want you to know that you shouldn't lie to customers, nor play them as fools especially when they are dropping $2000+ dollars on bike frames. Its bad business, the proper thing to do would fix the cross brace issue.
  • 02-26-2013
    Hugor
    2 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jqr100 View Post
    Just recently purchased a 2013 aluminum frame....Rode a 2011 frame for almost 3 years and it had great tire clearance and I loved the bike, boy I should of done my homework first though. I called Pivot today and after playing dumb, suggesting I ride a different tire and finally being told that there was no issue with tire clearance I was actually told that tire clearance had actually increased over previous models! Not only did the rep play me as a fool he told me there was no guarantee that I could get my money back. I asked "what would be the reason why?" and he wouldn't give me an answer. Chris if that was indeed you earlier on this post I just want you to know that you shouldn't lie to customers, nor play them as fools especially when they are dropping $2000+ dollars on bike frames. Its bad business, the proper thing to do would fix the cross brace issue.

    Further to my post above my fears have been confirmed.
    I have also bought the 2013 frame without doing my homework and knowing about this issue.
    Here are some pics of the clearance with racing ralph's on cobalt's.
    I measure it at 5mm.

    Attachment 775590

    Attachment 775591

    Summer here in Aus and this isn't a problem ATM but this will seriously affect my tyre choices in the winter months.
    I can understnd the requirement for a stiff rear triangle bit it doesn't look like much of a modification would be needed to generate alot more clearance.
    This design will effectively make this bike completely unsuitable for UK riding which is a fair chunk of the market to ignore IMO.

    This is my second Pivot and I am still impressed with how great this bike rides otherwise. Such a shame.
  • 02-26-2013
    DrDon
    Clarifying Mach 429 Tire Clearance - from Chris Cocalis
    May I suggest the MK II. It does provide adequate clearance in wet conditions, has excellent traction and doesn't penalize one too much on hard pack.
  • 03-04-2013
    freebiker
    maxxis ardent is available in 2.25 and 2.4. 2.35 maxxis ardent doesn't exist.
  • 03-12-2013
    Chefbigdaddy
    I have a 2013 MAch 429 that came with a 29x2.2 Slant Six on the back. After 1 ride it had already rubbed off the anodizing. I switched to a 2.0 and solved the problem. I ride in So-Cal where I don't have to worry about mud much. but if you ride in the muck even the 2.0 does not give you too much room to spare. I love the bike but it is unfortunate about the clearance, or lack thereof.
  • 03-12-2013
    freebiker
    That's unfortunate. I wonder if the 429 "c" is in the same predicament?
  • 03-13-2013
    Chefbigdaddy
    I rode the carbon as well. I seemed to not have that issue. The geometry is different around. I wanted to buy the carbon bit didn't have the extra $$$
  • 03-17-2013
    DrDon
    MKII Protection failed at the bead. I have become used to many tires surviving the occasional rim strike. My MKII and X-King are not that tough. At higher pressures it feels like I'm running a tube. I suspect Schwalbe is more expensive because of better construction. I tried a worn Captain 2.2 but it packs up more than the MKII and has less clearance. I'm am not happy. Winter/trail tires are either high volume 2.2 or above or skinny mud tires. I think a replacement triangle at cost should be considered for those who do not live in the southwest. I have a Crossmark LUST on order. If there is decent clearance and knob height, I will take a blade to it. I may try a Ground Control if the 2.1 has less volume than a NN 2.25.
  • 03-17-2013
    Hugor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    I think a replacement triangle at cost should be considered for those who do not live in the southwest. I have a Crossmark LUST on order.

    hehe! You were such a strong defender of the limited tyre options and have now come full circle.
    FWIW I'm getting along just fine with my racing ralphs in the 13 frame but I'm glad I don't have to consider proper winter riding.
    Given that this is the 3rd generation of this frame and this problem has been identified since the first, I think this is pretty poor form.
  • 03-17-2013
    DrDon
    You got me. I love the bike, and Pivot has provided good customer service to me in the past. I hate to seem like I'm throwing them under the bus, but until the Gato TNT 2.1 comes out, I'm stuck, literally in clay mud. The Geax TNT tires "ride big" because of the stiff sidewalls. In the summer my RR is great. Looking at your pictures, you may have a little more clearance than I do. Hopefully I will receive some feedback regarding the volume of the GC. If the 429 was a mediocre performer, the solution would be easy. Even resale, as another has mentioned, has probably been affected by these posts.
  • 03-17-2013
    insighter
    I opted to go with an older frame even though it is used-- I love Pivot's design but the smaller clearance just won't work in the Northeast US. Maybe they'll eventually listen, especially since the carbon version has gobs of clearance. In the meantime I plan to enjoy the older version. For those who like the more typical volume tires, glad the frame is working-- I prefer something bigger.
  • 03-17-2013
    Jory
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
    You got me. I love the bike, and Pivot has provided good customer service to me in the past. I hate to seem like I'm throwing them under the bus, but until the Gato TNT 2.1 comes out, I'm stuck, literally in clay mud. The Geax TNT tires "ride big" because of the stiff sidewalls. In the summer my RR is great. Looking at your pictures, you may have a little more clearance than I do. Hopefully I will receive some feedback regarding the volume of the GC. If the 429 was a mediocre performer, the solution would be easy. Even resale, as another has mentioned, has probably been affected by these posts.

    I'm with you - LOVE the Geax tires and ran their 2.2 AKA in the back, but if there was even humidity in the air the thing would clog then rub. Running a Continental out back now. It's OK, but it's not high volume, stiff sidewall dream that the Geax tires are.

    Really will a Gato TNT be coming out in 2.1???
  • 03-18-2013
    DrDon
    Clarifying Mach 429 Tire Clearance - from Chris Cocalis