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  1. #1
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    Best Pivot for South Mtn and McDowell Mtn, - Mach 6, Firebird, or Mach 5.7????

    I am selling my current bikes (Intense M1 and Brodie Zealot) to get one bike that fits all my needs. My favorite trail is National on south mtn. I want to be able to go up it easier, and do the occasional Geronimo and desert classic, and hit the comp loops at McDowell mtn. Im done with shuttling, but I love going fast down. My zealot does well (very similar geometry to the firebird) but I want something lighter and faster for more fun on the smoother pedal trails. It weighs 35 lbs. I just moved to awatukee, so eventually I would love to ride to the trails as well. So whats the best Pivot to get?? Firebird, Mach 5.7 or the new Mach 6? I am leaning towards the Machs, but I am worried it might not like the occasional Geronimo or holbert trails when the need for speed arises and won't take the abuse. But I want to be faster for the pedal runs and not feel as wasted energy wise. Ive been using both bikes for 4 to 5 years now, so its time for an upgrade. What do you think????? Also, what is the best way I can throw a leg over them and try them out? Do any of the LBS demo them, or does Pivot direct do it?

  2. #2
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    Sounds like the Mach 6 is what you are looking for of the three. This is based on only on reading your post, some posts on the Mach 6 and demos of Mach 5.7 and a Firebird.

    Rage should be able to get you a demo.

    Bob

  3. #3
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    Thx for the tips!

  4. #4
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    I'm all about the Firebird but I do seem to be the "weird" guy there. That bike was actually designed with National and Porcupine Rim trails specifically in mind so it works great on that type of terrain. The 5.7 and Mach 6 will be a lighter bike overall and have a more trailbike feel so climbing/descending will be a bit different. I've personally been riding longer travel bikes for so long that anything else feels kinda alien to me, uphill or down. Getting a demo ride will definitely be the best option. If you can get time to head out to Moab for Outerbike you'd be able to ride all 3 bikes on some really cool trails all in one trip (and it's a great excuse for a vacation )
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  5. #5
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    I have a Pivot Firebird, with Lyrik RC2DH 170mm coil fork on it, recently converted to 650B. I love this bike! I am constantly amazed at how well it climbs. It loves technical climbs, but it also excels at long extended climbs as well. I built up a carbon fiber, hardtail 29er, and did a long 1.5 hour climb. Moderately rocky. I did the same climb the next week, and was 10 minutes faster on the Firebird. WTF?!! Away went the hardtail. I climb as fast on the Firebird, and it is so much better on the downhills, so what is the point of the hardtail? The Firebird suspension seems like it works better on the climbs the fitter you are. It responds best under power. The harder you stomp the gas pedal, the better it responds. So the fitter I am, the better it feels when climbing. It loves it when you power into climbs. Oh yeah, it also is no slouch on the downhills, with a stiff frame, and 170mm of travel.

    I can take this bike on any ride. And I do mean ANY ride, and not feel like I brought the wrong bike. Technical uphill, gnarly downhill, or long, epic xc ride, and it still feels right at home.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the info! I appreciate it. In your opinions, will the carbon versions of the mach take the abuse of trails like national on a constant basis, or is it more at home on smoother terrain? I don't think I am going to miss the 1/4" of travel loss from my brodie to the mach. And I feel like the mach is going to be faster than then firebird. I for sure need to ride them to find out. I live down the street from pivot's home base. I wonder if I could get a demo and run them both on national?

  7. #7
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    I'm still a bit gun shy of carbon fiber. I ride so many rocky trails, and I am always hearing rocks pinging off things. Maybe I am concerned over nothing?

    But that Mach 6 does look insanely sweet! If it will hold up to rocks pinging off it then I would be very tempted, if I did not already have the Firebird all set up.

  8. #8
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    Update.. I got a chance to demo the Mach 5.7 Carbon, and the Firebird 26" over the long weekend thanks to Pivot and my LBS, Industry Bikes in Chandler. Both are amazing bikes! Night and day compared to my old bikes. I was very impressed to say the least. The firebird was more comfortable for me, as it was set up more like my Brodie. It tore up National trail like nobody's business! If all I was looking to do was more hardcore trails, the Firebird would be the choice. But since I am wanting to stretch my legs more, I think the Mach 5.7 Carbon is going to better suit me. I was really amazed at how plush the suspension was (the rear even worked a lot better than the fork) and how well it pedaled. It felt like every ounce of my energy was pushing me forward, rather than leaving me with a dead feeling on minor climbs that just seemed to suck away my energy on my old bike. If there was no such thing as a Mach 6, it would be the 5.7 for sure. But since there is such a thing as a Mach 6, I need to try one of those before I decide. I am curious how the 27.5 wheels will feel.

    The only things that I didn't like was having more pedal strikes against the ground. But it wasn't bad. Will just take a little getting used to and to pay more attention on the trails with bigger ledges.

    I am very impressed and the DW link suspension is legit. I didn't think it was going to be nearly as plush as it was. I am looking forward to my upgrade! I've already started putting away my pennies!

  9. #9
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    I think it would be hard to go wrong with any of them. Definitely, the 5.7 carbon will be a bit lighter than the Firebird, and biased a bit more to long trail rides, although the Firebird is no slouch in that department.

    I would definitely not get something until you try that Mach 6 though! I really like my Firebird converted to 27.5, and the Mach 6 would be on my list if I did not already have my Firebird built up nicely, and don't want to spend that much money just to switch to carbon. But If I was entering into it on the ground floor like you, it would be a big time consideration.

    I'm thinking it could be somewhere between the 5.7 and the Firebird, with the lightness of the 5.7, and stability of the Firebird. Could be an awesome combination. And I see the Mach 6 has a lot of protection built into it. With Pivot being located where they are I would think they built it for rocky trails.

    Post up when you ride the Mach 6. I'm really curious about it.

  10. #10
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    Just an FYI, Rage just got the very first customer Mach6 today. Probably won't stick around at the shop very long
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  11. #11
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    Wish it was mine! I'm anxiously awaiting Rage to call me with the news that my "new puppy" has arrived. It's been on order for a month.....

    Ken- any idea on when XL frames will be coming out of production? New bike-itis is setting in.
    AKA: G-wat

  12. #12
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    I have to check my notes on production schedules. I'm also jonesing for my frame (waiting on the new 27.5 Les myself..)
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  13. #13
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    Mach 6 has put everything else on my list in the gutter.
    Bender to AZDog: I'm not the best person to give advice on not riding!

  14. #14
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    Ken, if you could post up some delivery times that would be excellent. I ordered the mach 6 in blue, size large with the xt/xtr pro build kit

  15. #15
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    Love the look of the Mach 6 but holy christ!! $3,000 for a bike frame! I paid $1,600 for my Firebird frame. I could see 2 grand, but 3 is just getting stupid.

    Looks like I will ride my self converted 27.5 Firebird a couple more years and hope these prices come down to reality level.

  16. #16
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    OK, finally remembered to look up scheduled ship dates on the frames. We are already shipping a small number of Med frames with more arriving soon. XL and XS are slated for arrival in November, Lg will be in October.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  17. #17
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    Thanks Ken!

  18. #18
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    Thanks!
    AKA: G-wat

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit View Post
    OK, finally remembered to look up scheduled ship dates on the frames. We are already shipping a small number of Med frames with more arriving soon. XL and XS are slated for arrival in November, Lg will be in October.
    Sweet, that's great to hear. I'm assuming that these are complete bikes only? Any idea when frame only orders will ship?

    Also, off topic, does the Mach 6 accept the Cane Creek Angleset?

  20. #20
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    No idea when we'll be shipping framesets, that can vary by how high the complete bike demand is though. I don't know about using an AngleSet, the lower cup is a 56mmID while the upper is 44.0mm. Lower would be fine but I don't know about the upper.

    Edited: Total brainfade with that lower cup ID. Got my numbers all mixed up for some reason. Hard to keep it all straight! 56mm is correct, 49.6 is the Firebird/Phoenix cup.
    Last edited by kenbentit; 09-09-2013 at 01:31 PM. Reason: Corrected info
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  21. #21
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    You probably have a reason(s) for not including it, but the 429c is damn sweet and more capable than its aluminum predecessor.

  22. #22
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    Until recently, I haven't included it but mainly because of the lower travel numbers and more oriented towards xc. But id be curious to see how it rides on the technical rock ledges and drops we have on my favorite trail. If anyone has ridden a 429 on national etc, please chime in with your thoughts. Thx!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    Until recently, I haven't included it but mainly because of the lower travel numbers and more oriented towards xc. But id be curious to see how it rides on the technical rock ledges and drops we have on my favorite trail. If anyone has ridden a 429 on national etc, please chime in with your thoughts. Thx!
    greg, I rode my alum 429 on coast to coast to coast, and also my c on a National run last year (cleaned Waterfall second try). Took the c to Porcupine Rim, Gooseberry and other locales as well; have done a fair bit of rough tech riding with it elsewhere (Joplin, Los Pinos, Bell Ridge, Yeager Mesa, etc., in CA).

    I have a longer travel bike which I really like, but for me, nothing inspires confidence in chunky, steep stuff like the big wheels. But sure, I have to be a little more selective with the line versus just hammering through at speed.

    The newer 429 is a completely different bike. It really horns in on domain that used be exclusive to my longer-travel bike. Carbon AM hoops make it very worthy. It's an incredible bike that belies its XC roots if equipped accordingly. I honestly will grab my 429c before my BronsonC when it comes to terrain that's tech and near my limit. Since I tend to slow a little through stuff I don't know or is near my limit, 120mm doesn't feel like a sacrifice. Of course for road sections you'd be psyched. I did Colorado Trail and other bikepacking missions on the alum, and am sure the c will be an even more capable bike than the alum loaded up on chunky ground.

    So many cool bikes...so little time. Props to Pivot for getting it right. Enjoy your process and stay psyched for cooler temps

  24. #24
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    Thx for the feedback! I think I should try one. Man! Too many good bikes! Haha. Yeah, I love the waterfall! So far I have been able to clean it every time on my old bikes, and also did it on the firebird. I didn't get a chance to get back that far with the 5.7. Would you say the 429 is easier to clean the waterfall than on your Bronson?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg View Post
    Thx for the feedback! I think I should try one. Man! Too many good bikes! Haha. Yeah, I love the waterfall! So far I have been able to clean it every time on my old bikes, and also did it on the firebird. I didn't get a chance to get back that far with the 5.7. Would you say the 429 is easier to clean the waterfall than on your Bronson?
    I haven't ridden the Bronson at SoMo, but I really don't think it matters much now that I've done it. I could ride it faster in a bit more control on the Bronson, no doubt. That's my usual MO: Clean on the 29er, then rail it later with more travel. I'm not an elite rider and am somewhat cautious about injury. Other riders might be more speed oriented and not need to creep through tricky sections. I'd say they rely more on suspension than wheel attack angle. FWIW, you might trend more toward one approach than the other.

    I would seek out a demo sesh and see for yourself. I imagine the cooling weather will bring demo events back toward the equator. I'd even pay a rental fee to test one before dropping coin if I was on the fence.

    Cheers,

    Mike

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