Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dangerDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    183

    Another broken Firebird carbon rocker

    Since I'm not too big and don't do big drops, I wasn't too worried about breaking the carbon fiber rocker on my Firebird (purchased July 2009) but it happened.

    We had just finished riding the new Magnificent 7 trail in Moab and had climbed up to Gold Bar Rim and looking foreward to riding it and finishing with Portal. I took about a 2-foot drop to flat, heard a crunching sound and my rear tire was rubbing against the seat tube. Here's the damage.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

    We were miles from nowhere and I needed to try to ride the bike out. I tried jamming a rock between the rear triangle and seat tube but all that did was scratch the hell out of the frame and break the soft sandstone rock.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

    Finally, I got the idea to remove the rocker and shock and reassemble the rocker behind the seat tube. This limitted the upward swing of the rear end. A little duct tape and a strap limitted the downward swing and I was able to ride out.

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

    Fortunately Poison Spider Bikes had an aluminum rocker which I bought and was back in the saddle the next day.

    Here's a link to lidarman's report on the Mag-7 trail, including a nice short video he shot.
    Newish Moab
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who count in binary, and those who don't.

  2. #2
    I do what I want
    Reputation: Guy.Ford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,015
    Im sure Pivot would be far more concerned to hear about this than we are or at least I am. Sux it broke, glad you werent hurt, but Pivot has addressed this issue already, so not a big deal IMO.
    Guy.Ford

    I'm not really an @sshole, I just act like one online.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,385
    Nice trail side fix! I'm so surprised that rocker snapped? Maybe it was a defect, or sustained a hit at some point that compromised it. It's supposed to be WAY stronger than an AL link. This is a good one for the strength vs durability debate.

  4. #4
    Pivotal figure
    Reputation: kenbentit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    5,751
    That's the old style rocker, not the revised version.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  5. #5
    Rolling
    Reputation: lidarman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,119
    I think Dan's point was to show a great trail fix in case this happens to you, not to create a debate with the Pivot apologists on the rocker design or rocker material choice.

  6. #6
    I do what I want
    Reputation: Guy.Ford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,015
    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    That's the old style rocker, not the revised version.
    exactly! personally I'd go for the Alu.
    Guy.Ford

    I'm not really an @sshole, I just act like one online.

  7. #7
    Pivotal figure
    Reputation: kenbentit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    5,751
    That is a pretty sweet McGyver solution
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  8. #8
    dog
    dog is offline
    sit! stay!
    Reputation: dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,103
    that's awesome that poison spider bikes has a rocker on hand...

    cool video, too... i liked the perspectives, etc...
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  9. #9
    Appalachian Singletrack'n
    Reputation: Endomaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,418
    When i got my Firebird i was a little bummed it came with an alum. rocker. I think i enjoy the piece of mind now.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dangerDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    183
    Ken - I mentioned the age of the bike because I knew it was the old style rocker. I should have emphasised it more though. I thought I remembered that Pivot had beefed it up but frankly I didn't pay much attention after the initial bru-ha-ha over Mooseknuckle's breakage when I saw how he was riding it. My main objective was to tell other owners of an old-style rocker that they should inspect it and maybe even have it swapped proactively. Again - I don't consider myself particularly hard on my bikes.

    I'm not a carbon fiber hater like some people, but I think that this part should be aluminum on a AM/freeride/light DH bike like this one. It is appropriate on a Mach 5.7, 429, etc.

    I still love this bike though.

    Endo - I think you should be glad you got the aluminum.

    dD
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who count in binary, and those who don't.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,385
    I attended a Pivot clinic held by the owner who said the carbon rocker passed far tougher stress tests than AL versions and weighed less. Now we see that stress tests may not always translate into real world toughness. I think a rocker is one of the best places for carbon because it's in a protected spot, and rocker specific layup allows for fine tuned lateral rigidity. This is the only carbon link I've heard of breaking, so I'm not worried about it. I guess Pivot just missed the mark with this one in particular.

  12. #12
    jddist
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    That's the old style rocker, not the revised version.
    How can you tell the difference between the old style and the revised version?

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    865
    pics and weights of old vs new here:

    Advice on putting the FB on a diet

    The area where the links seem to break is much beefier.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,951
    That part about the rock has to be a joke.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dangerDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    183
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr
    That part about the rock has to be a joke.
    Perhaps it sounds silly in retrospect but I assure you the prospect of carrying the bike for miles to get to the nearest road wasn't funny at the time. I had to devise a way of keeping the rear triangle from swinging up and jamming the rear tire against the seat tube. A stronger rock would have worked. The sandstone rocks available weren't strong enough. I also tried a stick but you can imagine what wimpy, dry sticks were available in the desert.
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who count in binary, and those who don't.

  16. #16
    Pivotal figure
    Reputation: kenbentit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    5,751
    We actually tried using one of those rocks to pound a pedal insert back in last year (or maybe the year before?..). Same results.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  17. #17
    Nothing can stop me now
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    949
    Quote Originally Posted by slimat99
    I attended a Pivot clinic held by the owner who said the carbon rocker passed far tougher stress tests than AL versions and weighed less. Now we see that stress tests may not always translate into real world toughness. I think a rocker is one of the best places for carbon because it's in a protected spot, and rocker specific layup allows for fine tuned lateral rigidity. This is the only carbon link I've heard of breaking, so I'm not worried about it. I guess Pivot just missed the mark with this one in particular.
    You might want to check your Internet hearing... There were at least two others reported here. Does that mean there is a problem? No idea, but Pivot does offer the alloy rocker as an option for the 'bird if you think that alloy would be better than carbon.

    Bob

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,385
    Quote Originally Posted by bobo_krkk_NIN
    You might want to check your Internet hearing... There were at least two others reported here. Does that mean there is a problem? No idea, but Pivot does offer the alloy rocker as an option for the 'bird if you think that alloy would be better than carbon.

    Bob
    When I said this is the only carbon rocker I've heard of breaking I meant other than the firebird. I've not heard of any other companies composite links/rockers braking. I would say that multiple rockers braking is a pretty good indication of an issue.

  19. #19
    Pivotal figure
    Reputation: kenbentit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    5,751
    The only issue was with the original rocker, which has long since been resolved. We haven't seen a single one of the new rockers fail, even with the frames we sent out for testing.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  20. #20
    Nothing can stop me now
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    949
    Quote Originally Posted by slimat99
    When I said this is the only carbon rocker I've heard of breaking I meant other than the firebird. I've not heard of any other companies composite links/rockers braking. I would say that multiple rockers braking is a pretty good indication of an issue.
    I thought you meant only 'bird rocker fail obviously. I apologize. Looks like they have a bead on the issue now based on some of the posts and pictures of the latest carbon rocker.

    Bob

    More of a Mach 4 kinda guy.... Maybe...

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mountain_Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    292
    What is the story on bikes with older rockers. Will Pivot replace those before they break or do you have to wait for the rocker to break then ask for a replacement?

  22. #22
    Pivotal figure
    Reputation: kenbentit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    5,751
    If you still have the older style rocker it will be replaced with the new version. Just give us a call and we can get it sorted out for you.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: crank1979's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,560
    Be sure the bolts match the thread pitch of the bearing inserts.

  24. #24
    Paterfamilias
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    418
    Quote Originally Posted by dangerDan
    I'm not a carbon fiber hater like some people, but I think that this part should be aluminum on a AM/freeride/light DH bike like this one. It is appropriate on a Mach 5.7, 429, etc.
    EVERYONE! The Firebird is not a AM/freeride/light DH bike as dangerDan lists above. We know everyone wants it to be that - it performs so well, people want to push this bike further than what we designed it for. The Firebird is a long travel All Mountain/Trail bike.

    It is a very capable bike, but it is not over built like a true freeride bike is. Be nice to your Birds, ride them hard, but remember this bike is not a Down Hill bike!

    Love,
    Daniel

    now this thread can go to sleep, the new carbon rockers have taken care of any of the issues the old rocker had - it has tested as strong as the alloy version, so have faith when you ride this bike it the realm it is intended for, it will perform for you!
    "The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face".
    Jack Handy

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,385
    Quote Originally Posted by dan23
    EVERYONE! The Firebird is not a AM/freeride/light DH bike as dangerDan lists above. We know everyone wants it to be that - it performs so well, people want to push this bike further than what we designed it for. The Firebird is a long travel All Mountain/Trail bike.

    It is a very capable bike, but it is not over built like a true freeride bike is. Be nice to your Birds, ride them hard, but remember this bike is not a Down Hill bike!

    Love,
    Daniel

    now this thread can go to sleep, the new carbon rockers have taken care of any of the issues the old rocker had - it has tested as strong as the alloy version, so have faith when you ride this bike it the realm it is intended for, it will perform for you!
    The bird isn't an AM/FR bike? Isn't it rated for up to a 180 fork? Over 6" travel? What else do you do with that kind of travel? An Enduro placed 2nd Pro DH at Bootleg Canyon which is a gnar course. You're saying the bird should be riding gilr scout instead if bootleg's famous DH trails?? I huck a nomad over and over, so a bird isn't as strong and as capable? Guess I'll take it off my next bike list.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •