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  1. #1
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    27.5 Firebird announced! Will be showing at Otter...

    Wow. Been waiting for something like this: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Pivot Introduces Firebird 27.5

    Headed to Otter and will be at Pivot booth soonest. I must admit I don't fully understand the rationale of 650b, 27.5 whatever you want to call it. But maybe a new Firebird will convince me
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  2. #2
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    Problem is, most of the e-riders out there won't be able to handle that BB height; anything over 14" makes 'em dribble pee pee.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  3. #3
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    I'd really just like to demo one on our rocky CO trails and see if all this 27.5 stuff is really just marketing hype or if there is a noticeable enough difference. I might have to test one out if they're bringing enough of these in the demo fleet this year.
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  4. #4
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    Interesting, I was told they wouldn't announce anything at SOC, but rather all their new stuff is in July at some other event. I was probing for a 650b FB also. Although the current frame can run it, so maybe this isn't a big change?

    Either way I want to ride one now just to see.
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  5. #5
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    Will be interesting to see, but by the specs, it looks like they just tweaked the rear triangle a bit. Glad they are providing a 27.5 option, but I was really hoping to see a fully redesigned carbon bird built for 27.5 from the ground up. Will be fun to demo.

  6. #6
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    oh sweet dear lord. Can't wait to get out and demo one of these vs my current bird. I have been wishing for a 650b carbon 5.7 to be announced to be the perfect compliment to my current quiver of 1.

    if you guys are looking for someone to "stress test" it, look me up in colorado. If it can be broken, I can do it.

    wow.
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  7. #7
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    Wont be relevant to me until someone makes a 36mm /170-180mm 27.5 fork, this seems like step backward with the 26" FB being able to run 180mm forks.

  8. #8
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    I don't know. A 27.5 Firebird with a 160 34 could be an amazing trail/AM bike that's still reasonably light. It's already a 66 degree head angle with the 160 on there so anything more would slack it out too much to still be great uphill, not to mention being heavier. Now as a park bike, sure it would be awesome with longer forks, but I have a dedicated DH bike for that.

    Those geo numbers do lead me to believe that it's more of a slight modification to the bike than a complete re-imagining like JMW said.
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  9. #9
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    i hope they don't do anything rash like retire the 26" FB...
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  10. #10
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    They got the wheel size right, but I was hoping for a more all-rounder. Oh well, I'm not exactly suffering on my Mach 4.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dog View Post
    i hope they don't do anything rash like retire the 26" FB...
    The 26" is here to stay, this just gives you options. Do you want 26? or 27.5? or Both on different days... Options and versatility!
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  12. #12
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    Is there anything different about it than just a wheel, headset and fork change? The BB height change makes me think its really the same bike. A 26"-fox 36-170 is the same height as a 650b- fox 34-160 the tire is only a 1/2" of diameter change. I run 2.5" tires on my firebird and I have loads of clearance, my bb sits under 14", if i changed wheels and forks seams i would get about these exact same geometry numbers.

  13. #13
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    Is it the same frame with a different rear triangle? Is the 27.5 triangle an option for the 26" bird?

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    27.5 Firebird announced! Will be showing at Otter...

    I think endomaniac is correct. Looking at the numbers, it appears to me to be a 'regular' firebird frame with an angleset, new fork and 27.5 wheels. But I could be wrong. It would be great for one of the pivot people to chime in and clear things up.

  15. #15
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    To use the 27.5" wheels on a 26" FB, you needed to of course get different sized wheels/tires/fork, but also needed an angleset. Totally possible that is really all they did, and just made it into a complete package.
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  16. #16
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    http://www.pivotcycles.com/php/creat...if&h=397&w=596

    http://www.pivotcycles.com/php/creat...if&h=397&w=596

    To use the 27.5" wheels on a 26" FB, you needed to of course get different sized wheels/tires/fork, but also needed an angleset. Totally possible that is really all they did, and just made it into a complete package.
    Looks like the same frame to me, with less tire clearance.

  17. #17
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    The Rockshox Lyrik 170mm fork fits 650B. At least a 2.3 Neo Moto at least. I know, I just got in a set of 2.3 Neo Motos, and Sun Charger Expert 650B wheels tonight for my Firebird.

  18. #18
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    I am mounting up 2.3 Neo Motos on Sun Ringle Charger Expert wheels to my 26" Firebird this very moment. My BB with 26" Cedric Gracia AM tires is 13 5/8", so I am guessing my BB will come out close to what the 27.5 Firebird is. Looking at the pictures, it does not look like the rear triangle is different at all.

    I will post up with more info in a while when I get finished up with my transformation, and can measure the BB height.

  19. #19
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    Ok, all done. BB is now exactly 14 inches. This is with a 170mm Lyrik RC2DH(26") fork. Very close to the 14.1 inches that Pivot states for their 27.5 Firebird. They are using Nevegal tires.

    That puts the BB 1/8" lower than my 26" Knolly Endorphin with the same wheels I was using on my Firebird. The Firebird was 13 5/8 with Sun Charger Pro wheels mounted with 2.35 Cedric Gracia AM tires, and the Endorphin was 14 1/8 with those wheels. I ride really rocky trails in AZ so I am just fine with the BB height. To come out with a BB 1/8" lower than the Endorphin, but with bigger wheels, does not seem all that bad to me.

    Keep in mind, the 2.3 Neo Motos are not as wide as the 26" 2.35 CG AM tires I had before. The CG's are 60/55mm(outer knob/casing) and the Neo Motos are at 57.5/53. That number could change as the tire swells in the next day or two, bringing them a bit closer in width.

    There is about 5mm of clearance from the tire to the fork arch, and about 4mm from the tire to the cross brace in the middle of the rear triangle. At the bottom of the chainstay there is a ton of clearance, but as it stands, there is not a lot of room for a much taller tire. Lots of room width wise at both ends. Only height comes into play at all.

    Now just have to get it out on the trail. Might be able to get a short ride in tomorrow after work. I think it is going to be pretty good. The Neo Moto tires look like they will be really good for our kitty litter over hardpack trails. The knob pattern on the side looks like it will have a forgiving transition. Some tires have to be put down hard to engage the side knobs, and are sketchy until they get there. I think the Neo Moto will be very predictable, and is said to roll much faster than the Nevegal.
    Last edited by twowheelsdown2002; 04-18-2013 at 08:57 PM.

  20. #20
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    A note on the 650B Sun Ringle Charger Expert wheels. I got them for $430 shipped from kakko12 on Ebay.

    The rear is 10mm quick release, and also came with 12mm thru axle adapters but no 12mm rear axle or 10mm quick release skewer. No biggie, I just used my other quick release skewer. My Firebird is 10mm quick release.

    The front wheel has all 3 adapters and skewer for 9mm/15mm/20mm.

    Wheels came with Stans sealant, valve stems, and yellow tape installed.

    They are 28 spoke wheels, and are straight pull spokes. My 26" Charger Pro wheels are only 24 spoke. I like that they have more spokes. I think they may have changed the Expert wheels, because I thought that in the past the Pro's were straight pull spokes and the Experts had J bend spokes. But these are most definitely straight pull spokes. Wheels are eyeletted as well.

    The Neo Motos mounted up super easy. Did need a tire lever just a bit. Nice and snug, but not curse them out tight. As soon as I hit the air, they popped right into place with several loud snaps. Easy as any tire I have mounted. No muss, no fuss.

    Nice wheels because you can run either regular or UST bead tires easily since they have the Bead Socket Technology just like a Stans Flow rim, and are exactly the same width as a Flow. Deeper cross section though, so possibly stronger than a Flow.

  21. #21
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    One more note on BB height. Keep in mind that the Firebird runs quite a bit of sag. Sitting on the Firebird, my BB looks to be right around 12" when sagged. My RIP-9 has a 13.5" BB, but sagged it comes out almost identical to the Firebird as a 27.5.

    I'm betting that the Firebird comes out pretty favorably compared to other 650B bikes in this regard, because many bikes only run 25% sag, but the DW link on the Firebird allows for more sag, and yet it still pedals superbly.

    Unsagged BB height really does not tell the whole story.
    Last edited by twowheelsdown2002; 04-18-2013 at 09:30 PM.

  22. #22
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    1. It's the same frameset as 26" No mods.

    2. Special Pivot angled headset and 160mm fork = 66.5 head angle

    3. Rear triangle not altered. Index finger clearance with Kenda Honey Badger 2.2 tires.

    4. Eyeballing, does not look like hi profile tire will fit, e.g. Hans Dampf.

    5. Parking lot test feels like a livelier, more flickable, versatile handling version of reg FB.

    6. Midrange build scopes out at 31-32 lbs. weenie target 28 lbs.

    7. No carbon on boards. Sense Chris feels riders want to push FB too hard for carb. Drat.

    8. BB is 14.1 on med with Honey Badgers. See twowheelsd note on sag.

    More to come Friday!

    Quote Originally Posted by BikeIntelligencer View Post
    Wow. Been waiting for something like this: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Pivot Introduces Firebird 27.5

    Headed to Otter and will be at Pivot booth soonest. I must admit I don't fully understand the rationale of 650b, 27.5 whatever you want to call it. But maybe a new Firebird will convince me
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  23. #23
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    so, i guess i have owned the FB 27.5 except for the headset and wheels since 2009?

    i figured that they might have to tweak the rocker or the pivot, but I guess not...
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    The 26" is here to stay, this just gives you options. Do you want 26? or 27.5? or Both on different days... Options and versatility!
    So what was the green thing I saw Kevin riding at SoMo?
    Because, one is never enough.

  25. #25
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    I thought it was pretty funny that Pivot announced their 27.5 Firebird on the very day that my 650B wheels showed up on my doorstep.

    Yet earlier Pivot had told people they did not recommend converting the Firebird to 650B. I suspect this had to do solely with the fork, because as you can see, they are using a 650B specific fork in order to avoid any liability issues. And now they are all gaga about it.

    I already know my Lyrik can't bottom on the tire, so seeing that Pivot is not really doing all that much different than what I am doing, gives credence to the viability of the Firebird as a 27.5 platform, and to the conversion I am doing.

  26. #26
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    They told me that converting from 26 to 27.5 would work, but the biggest part seemed to be needing an angleset to slack it out enough to ensure the tire doesn't hit the downtube at full compression I'm guessing. There shouldn't be any issue doing the conversion yourself, but people probably feel better buying it as a complete package.
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  27. #27
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    27.5

    Quote Originally Posted by RED5 View Post
    Wont be relevant to me until someone makes a 36mm /170-180mm 27.5 fork, this seems like step backward with the 26" FB being able to run 180mm forks.
    Couldn't agree more, I can only afford one bike and it has to do everything inc. 10 days lift assisted in the Alps every year, riding an 09 Specialized SX Trail at the moment with 180 Fox Floats.

  28. #28
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    I think this is pretty weak. If all they did was do the conversion any of us could do then I don't think they should be marketing this as a dedicated 27.5. It's not. A dedicated 27.5 all-mountain bike should be able to run all the tires sizes likely to be used in the category. Love Pivot and the DW-Link suspension and was hoping for a 27.5 Firebird like bike but this is weak sauce! Back to waiting. Might have to give the Burner more consideration even though I really wanted more travel. I really want DW-Link but might have to consider the Bronson or Norco Range more seriously also. I think this is a missed opportunity for Pivot. I could understand not getting a carbon 27.5 out but dedicated 27.5 alloy build certainly was doable. They could have just redesigned the rear triangle with a bit more clearance. Bummer.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeIntelligencer View Post
    1. It's the same frameset as 26" No mods.

    2. Special Pivot angled headset and 160mm fork = 66.5 head angle

    3. Rear triangle not altered. Index finger clearance with Kenda Honey Badger 2.2 tires.

    4. Eyeballing, does not look like hi profile tire will fit, e.g. Hans Dampf.

    5. Parking lot test feels like a livelier, more flickable, versatile handling version of reg FB.

    6. Midrange build scopes out at 31-32 lbs. weenie target 28 lbs.

    7. No carbon on boards. Sense Chris feels riders want to push FB too hard for carb. Drat.

    8. BB is 14.1 on med with Honey Badgers. See twowheelsd note on sag.

    More to come Friday!
    Thanks for the additional details.

    With this info, I'm left wonding what the value add is from a consumer perspective. From Pivot's view, they jump into 27.5 with no real investment and can use the same frame for 26 or 27.5 builds, which is great for cost savings. If someone already has a FB, then conversion looks to be relatively inexpensive with a known limitation for rear wheel size, which is totally acceptable. But for someone wanting to buy a NEW 27.5 bike, why would they want to spend the coin on something not specifically designed for 27.5, claims is a "re-engineered" HA which is really just a Pivot designed angle set, and limits their rear tire size and choices? Doesn't seem worth it, especially considering that it comes with a 34 160, when most folks build their FB's on the more burly side with 35 or 36 170's and 180's up front.

    I love my 5.7c with a 34 up front, as it's a fantastic AM/Enduro rig. And I'm a huge fan of Pivot, but I got to say I'm a bit disappointed with this FB as their first stab into 27.5. Fine as another option, but don't claim it as a new bike - it's not (feel the same way about Intense's claims but at least they have different drop outs). With Santa Cruz, Norco, Rocky, KHS, Etc. all releasing bikes specifically designed for 27.5, I really hope Pivot has a couple of true 27.5 designs in the works (Mach 4, maybe a Mach 6) that will be released in the next year.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2BeerJoe View Post
    So what was the green thing I saw Kevin riding at SoMo?
    That's his Firebird. He just had it custom painted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuenstock View Post
    Is it the same frame with a different rear triangle? Is the 27.5 triangle an option for the 26" bird?
    It's the same rear triangle. The Original frame can accept large DH tires, and therefor it could fit many 27.5 tires. It will not fit the larger sizes, but most 2.3 tires will fit.

    We are making a small modification to the RT's that are shipping on new frames. This modification will give an extra few mm of clearance.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RED5 View Post
    Wont be relevant to me until someone makes a 36mm /170-180mm 27.5 fork, this seems like step backward with the 26" FB being able to run 180mm forks.
    Answer is the answer. They make a Dorado for that.
    "It looks flexy"

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by StuLax18 View Post
    They told me that converting from 26 to 27.5 would work, but the biggest part seemed to be needing an angleset to slack it out enough to ensure the tire doesn't hit the downtube at full compression I'm guessing. There shouldn't be any issue doing the conversion yourself, but people probably feel better buying it as a complete package.
    I am heading out for a test ride, and just to be sure, I removed the spring from my Lyrik and bottomed it out.

    Not only was there no way the crown would hit the tire, but the tire was a full 2 inchles away from contacting the frame.

    I don't know what kind of fork you would have to have in there to get downtube contact. From my perspective this seems like a very improbable scenario, bordering on being downright bogus as a possibility.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002 View Post
    I am heading out for a test ride, and just to be sure, I removed the spring from my Lyrik and bottomed it out.

    Not only was there no way the crown would hit the tire, but the tire was a full 2 inchles away from contacting the frame.

    I don't know what kind of fork you would have to have in there to get downtube contact. From my perspective this seems like a very improbable scenario, bordering on being downright bogus as a possibility.
    Interesting, this is just what I was told at Pivot though. For what it's worth, I was also told they don't announce new bikes until June.
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  35. #35
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    i will be selling two bikes to upgrade to this one. i wanted a firebird before i bought the second bike, but i chose something else for several reasons. i will be following this thread to see if anybody is taking this fork to the park and how the fork performs. in philly the closest pivot dealer is over an hour away.

    i agree with other posters that 35/36 mm stanchion 170 fork would be sweet. it may be time for rock shox to offer the lyric in a 27.5 mode.

    i want this bike to fulfill my xc trail to bike park needs.
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  36. #36
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    *TEST RIDE COMPLETE*
    I got a good test ride under my belt and really got a good feel of it. I will give you some info on the rider so you understand the perspective better. I have been riding MTB since 1985 and am 51 years old. Started riding full suspension in 1996. Have owned a shitload of bikes. I love technical trails and pride myself on my ability to clean rocky climbs others can't. Downhill I am decent, but not a big air hucker. I ride full suspension more for the ability to mow through rock gardens than to catch air. I also like to earn my downhills, so my riding is a cross between XC and all mountain. Distance and climbing plus gnar. Currently have a Firebird, Endorphin, and RIP-9.

    Test ride had a climb up a rocky wash, technical climb up rocky stair steps. Downhill through rocky chunk, and loose, baseball sized rocks. Some flowy sections, a couple sand washes and lots of ups and down with plenty of chunk and techy spots.

    Those that say you won't feel a difference are either full of crap, or have not ridden enough to be able to feel the difference. There is a big difference!! But it is not acceleration, or roll over ability. It is the steering. And for me it was a big, big plus! The thing I like on the 29er is when just cruising, you can relax, and it is steady. I always feel like I am over correcting the 26er and like they are a bit twitchy. The 29er is stable and relaxing, but at times it is cumbersome and a bit slow to respond. Enter the 650B. Steering is neutral. Just plain perfect to me. It was not just noticeable at speed, it was noticeable at all speeds. Climbing up rocky sections, it did not flop around like the 26er. It was more steady, and I could hit my spots with much more perfection. But it did not feel overly slow like the 29er does at times. At speed, I could relax much more than with the 26er wheels, and it was just so much more neutral. I never found myself over steering, yet it never felt too sluggish. For me, it was the perfect blend of steady, neutral, and responsive. It had the best qualities of 29er stability without the loss of nimbleness.

    As for acceleration, it was almost imperceptible from the 26er wheels. Both sets of wheels are the same rim, and the 2.3 CG AM tires are 750 grams vs 720 grams for the Neo Moto 2.3 tires, so slight rim weight increase vs slight tire weight decrease equals a wash pretty much. I noticed very little difference in acceleration. I did notice that the Neo Moto tires rolled faster than the 26" CG AM tires. Also, they went through sand a lot like a 29er tire. Cornering was really good as well. I also could feel better rolling over obstacles, and much better stability down rocky, chunky, loose descents.
    So basically, the good parts of the 29er wheel with the increased roll over ability and speed, but I did not feel that sluggish feel the 29er has many times.

    Seems to me, that the 650B wheels had most of the good aspects of each wheel size, without accentuating the bad aspects of either size. Much better acceleration, and more nimble than the 29 inch wheel, but better stability, rolling, sand float, and especially steering feel, than the 26 inch wheel.

    Again, I am going to say it was the steering that was my favorite part of the wheel size. Just plain neutral. I could steer right where I wanted both when climbing chunk, and when descending, without over steering and missing my lines. Yet no monster truck feeling like the 29er when you needed agility. So neutral and relaxing, but not slow.

    Bottom line. Was there any point in the ride I wished I was on my 29er instead? NO! Was there any point of the ride I wished I was on my 26er instead? NO!

    Next ride, will I want to be taking either of those wheel sizes out instead? Hell no!

  37. #37
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    There is nothing special needed to convert a 26" FB. I ran mine with a 160mm fork and 2.3 Neo Moto in the back with NO clearance issues.

    By the way, I was very impressed with the feeling and the amount of momentum kept in rock gardens with the 650b on the FB. Hard to make a GREAT bike better, but the 27.5s did. May not make any difference for those who ride in the flatter more groomed terrain areas.

    Here is a thread and there are plenty of threads in the 650b forum about it. Firebird 650b/27.5 ???
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  38. #38
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    Chris says as much in my video interview with him today (check Chris Cocalis Interview thread). But there's also more to come. This seems to me a bridge for Pivot, altho I have to say the long travel makes more sense to me than the rest of the 27.5 bikes out there (mostly 6-inchers)...
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  39. #39
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    it's definitely a good thing that this conversion is so easy... if it works, it works...
    i need to develop my crashing skills...

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    So can we get the lower stack angle set aftermarket, and how much, Dan?

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    Also, whats the axle to crown of the 650b 160mm?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeIntelligencer View Post
    Chris says as much in my video interview with him today (check Chris Cocalis Interview thread). But there's also more to come. This seems to me a bridge for Pivot, altho I have to say the long travel makes more sense to me than the rest of the 27.5 bikes out there (mostly 6-inchers)...
    Nice interview - provides a much more complete picture of the changes and the build kits. The 4 mm in the rear triangle eliminates one of the areas of concern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RED5 View Post
    Wont be relevant to me until someone makes a 36mm /170-180mm 27.5 fork, this seems like step backward with the 26" FB being able to run 180mm forks.
    My Lyrik RC2dh is a 170mm fork and fits 650B. You can't fit the largest tires, but the 2.3 Neo Moto fits well, and possibly the Nevegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden boy View Post
    They got the wheel size right, but I was hoping for a more all-rounder. Oh well, I'm not exactly suffering on my Mach 4.
    The Firebird pedals like a cross country bike and descends like a downhill bike, and most of the time feels like a very efficient trail bike.

    How can you be any more of a "all-rounder"?

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    Yep, I rode a Mach5.7, so basically a better step up in climbing with the lighter weight, but it didn't descend near as well. I felt the bumps way more, where the FB would just soak it up. A carbon FB could be a huge winner in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dog View Post
    it's definitely a good thing that this conversion is so easy... if it works, it works...
    It really is easy. And it would work with a FOX 36 as well. I have a FOX 36, and I measured it, and it has a couple mm more clearance than my Rockshox Lyrik RC2DH fork has. I just like the small bump compliance of the Lyrik better, as it is a coil fork.

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    Another note. My Neo Moto 2.3 tires have expanded just a touch. They are up to 59mm overall width and 54mm casing width. (My 2.3 Purgatory's on my RIP-9 are 55/53 for comparison)

    I ran them at 25psi front, 27psi rear. I am very happy with how they performed on our desert terrain, which is hardpack, and loose over hardpack, and rocks, rocks, rocks.

    They rolled very fast, and cornered exceptionally well. I ran the rear reversed for maximum climbing traction at the loss of a bit of braking traction. Our Tucson trails are best attacked with as little braking as possible anyways, because the loose crap on top just makes you slide anyways. Around here, you have to pick your breaking spot, then just let them go and roll, or you are just sliding.

    As to those that lament not being able to run a monster size tire, I guess it depends on your usage. I am a trail rider, and I climb as much as I descend. I would not want to pedal a 2.5 inch tire anyways. I don't need the long travel for jumping, I just like it for the rocky terrain, and it pedals like a 4 or 5 inch bike, so what the hell. I can pedal this bike on a 5 hour leg and lung buster, or take it to Moab and ride down "The Whole Enchilada" and it will do great at both. If you are more of a DH rider, and want to run huge meats, you might not want to do a conversion. But for trail riding like I do, it is great. I like the feel of it much more as a 27.5, and I think it enhances its ability as a trail bike.

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    Chris said demos will be available in mid-May, hope he wasn't being overly optimistic...
    All bike, all the time

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    I'd sure say give the 27.5 a demo. I rode it briefly, it seemed the bigger tires actually increased the FB versatility, esp. for a taller rider. My 26-inch FB was never that bad of a climber, but hardly XC. Bigger hoops may give the FB more mo upwards tho...
    All bike, all the time

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    I may have to keep my eyes peeled for an inexpensive wheelset. I wonder how they would work with my Float 180 on there... seems to be lots of room. Hmmmmm. Hans Dampf tires work really well around here.
    "It looks flexy"

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    By the time I got by they only had one left, and it couldn't be ridden. Something about Germans.

    One of their demo drivers said she plans to convert hers though.
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    On paper, seems like the perfect bike... ON a side note, I recall when I got my Mach 429 in 09 and speaking w very knowledgeable people within/outside of Pivot that the thinking was DW-Link was so sensitive to subtle changes in geometry etc that when I was pushing the idea of 120mm fork instead of the recommended 100mm version that came with the Pivot, it was met w skepticism and most responses were the 20mm rise would adversely alter the rear suspension performance. Obviously, that mindset has changed with the 429 now being fit w 120 forks... Now something as radical as adding larger wheels without modifying the chainstay length, pivot points etc is apparently acceptable... I am not questioning it, I have total trust in Pivot but I am surprised by the change in thinking...... I wonder out loud how much testing was completed for the 27.5 conversion and what role, if any, did David Weagle have in the modifications (head angle)... Tough for a small company like Pivot to keep up w the huge corporations, some of which have blatantly stole their design...

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    I couldn't really compare in person, especially with the 27.5 being a medium and mine a large, but I was told that there were some tweaks made to the rear triangle. It was hard to see any, but it's not like I broke out the tape measure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002 View Post
    That puts the BB 1/8" lower than my 26" Knolly Endorphin with the same wheels I was using on my Firebird. The Firebird was 13 5/8 with Sun Charger Pro wheels mounted with 2.35 Cedric Gracia AM tires, and the Endorphin was 14 1/8 with those wheels. I ride really rocky trails in AZ so I am just fine with the BB height. To come out with a BB 1/8" lower than the Endorphin, but with bigger wheels, does not seem all that bad to me.
    RE: Triangle clearance, did you happen to check with the shock de-pressurized?

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    I've been trying to think of a reply to the 27.5" Firebird announcement for two weeks now but all I can come up with is 'underwhelmed'. I love my 26" Firebird, but the 27.5" isn't enough of an upgrade for me to switch over. I'm hoping something a bit more dramatic is released soon because I really want to buy a new bike!

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    "RE: Triangle clearance, did you happen to check with the shock de-pressurized?"

    No, but I found an article in which a Firebird owner had already done just that, and had no clearance issues. And seeing as Pivot made no changes, it is not an issue.

    I did take the spring out of the fork, and the tire was a full 2 inches from the downtube, and there was no way the crown was going to contact either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979 View Post
    I've been trying to think of a reply to the 27.5" Firebird announcement for two weeks now but all I can come up with is 'underwhelmed'. I love my 26" Firebird, but the 27.5" isn't enough of an upgrade for me to switch over. I'm hoping something a bit more dramatic is released soon because I really want to buy a new bike!
    Spend $550 for wheels and tires and you will have a new bike.

    The change is quite dramatic, and well worth the money. Unless you are put off by not running downhill size tires. If you are a trail rider, just convert the bike you already have, ride the Neo Moto tires, and enjoy.

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    I do like to run the Conti RQ tyres. The high volume is one reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002 View Post
    Spend $550 for wheels and tires and you will have a new bike.

    The change is quite dramatic, and well worth the money. Unless you are put off by not running downhill size tires. If you are a trail rider, just convert the bike you already have, ride the Neo Moto tires, and enjoy.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002 View Post
    If you are more of a DH rider, and want to run huge meats, you might not want to do a conversion. But for trail riding like I do, it is great. I like the feel of it much more as a 27.5, and I think it enhances its ability as a trail bike.
    If you're more of a DH rider you could always run it as a 67.5er. You'd keep a slightly lower/still higher than stock BB too.
    Wow, GJ, Fruita, and Moab trails are riding great. This is a killer spring for riding!

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    I have a FB and love it; I use it for trail riding and run Schwalbe 2.4 BBs. I guess I am a little confused and maybe the forum experts can give me an opinion. If I like riding high volume aggressive tires, then is the 27.5 conversion not intended for me, but rather for those that want to run 2.2 or 2.3 tires on their FB but still want to benefit from a larger overall wheel diameter?

    To me it seems to get to the same overall tire/wheel diameter, you can keep the same wheel diameter and increase the tire diameter, or you can increase the wheel diameter and decrease the tire diameter and with the exception of the tire characteristics, you get to the same place. I am sure this has been covered before, but wanted to get the FB owner perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abrahamfroham View Post
    I have a FB and love it; I use it for trail riding and run Schwalbe 2.4 BBs. I guess I am a little confused and maybe the forum experts can give me an opinion. If I like riding high volume aggressive tires, then is the 27.5 conversion not intended for me, but rather for those that want to run 2.2 or 2.3 tires on their FB but still want to benefit from a larger overall wheel diameter?

    To me it seems to get to the same overall tire/wheel diameter, you can keep the same wheel diameter and increase the tire diameter, or you can increase the wheel diameter and decrease the tire diameter and with the exception of the tire characteristics, you get to the same place. I am sure this has been covered before, but wanted to get the FB owner perspective.
    I'm not sure if your Big Betty's would fit. The 2.3 Neo Moto's are 58mm knob/54mm casing width. Height is more the issue though. The Neo Moto tires work excellent here in Tucson though. Really hard to find fault with them. I did spin once on a very slick rock face, and it could be that the tire may be slippery on hard, wet surfaces, because I think it has a long wearing, rather than super sticky, compound.

    As to the 26er with a bigger tire feeling the same, I don't think so. I had 2.35 Cedric Gracia tire on it in 26" mode. They were only a little bit wider though. The 27.5 is much more stable and tracks much more predictably than the 26er. If you went to a big enough 26" tire to match that stable feeling, they would probably be quite heavy, and slow accelerating and rolling.

    I rode some really technical trails last weekend, and I am still loving the 27.5 conversion! It has the improved tracking, traction and stability of a wider 26" tire(or 29er tire), but accelerates well, rolls over rocks great, and rolls fast. I think it made the bike better in every situation, from fast, to slow.

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    Or alternatively, as a previous poster suggested, if I want to keep my high volume tires, I keep the 26in 2.4 Big Betty in the back and just stick a 27.5 Fox 34 or equiv fork on the front, zero stack headset, and run whatever 27.5 tire I want on the front. This would also keep the bottom bracket height a little bit lower than 27.5 front and rear, and slack the headangle slightly.

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    I sure hope they ran all this by old _dw for his blessing first! How's this wok w/ a coil shock?
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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    And it probably goes back to in the end, does it make enough of a difference to even bother with it? Maybe, if you are looking to buy a new fork or wheel or something, but probably not if everything is working just fine how it is....

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    Quote Originally Posted by abrahamfroham View Post
    And it probably goes back to in the end, does it make enough of a difference to even bother with it? Maybe, if you are looking to buy a new fork or wheel or something, but probably not if everything is working just fine how it is....
    It makes a BIG difference!! It is the best change I have done to my Firebird.

    If you have a Lyrik, or Fox 36(which actually has a couple mm more clearance than the Lyriik) all you have to do is buy the wheels and tires. And do like I am doing, I am keeping the other set of 26" wheels and tires in case I suffer a bent wheel or a freewheel takes a shit. But I sure hope they don't, because I really don't want to have to ride the 26" wheels anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979 View Post
    I've been trying to think of a reply to the 27.5" Firebird announcement for two weeks now but all I can come up with is 'underwhelmed'. I love my 26" Firebird, but the 27.5" isn't enough of an upgrade for me to switch over. I'm hoping something a bit more dramatic is released soon because I really want to buy a new bike!
    I wish you could ride the 27.5 version. I think you would change your tune as to whether or not it is a big enough upgrade. The bike steers so much better from 1 mile per hour trying to keep your balance making a tricky move up a rocky stair step, to 25mph through loose rocks and bumps. It is a very noticeable change, and good in every single way.

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    27.5 Firebird announced! Will be showing at Otter...

    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002 View Post
    It makes a BIG difference!! It is the best change I have done to my Firebird.

    If you have a Lyrik, or Fox 36(which actually has a couple mm more clearance than the Lyriik) all you have to do is buy the wheels and tires. And do like I am doing, I am keeping the other set of 26" wheels and tires in case I suffer a bent wheel or a freewheel takes a shit. But I sure hope they don't, because I really don't want to have to ride the 26" wheels anymore.
    Don't tell me these things, I must resist doing the changeover!
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    Quote Originally Posted by StuLax18 View Post
    Don't tell me these things, I must resist doing the changeover!
    Don't try to fight it.

    Siddhartha Gautama says that the "middle way" leads to liberation in the "cycle" of life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002 View Post
    I wish you could ride the 27.5 version. I think you would change your tune as to whether or not it is a big enough upgrade. The bike steers so much better from 1 mile per hour trying to keep your balance making a tricky move up a rocky stair step, to 25mph through loose rocks and bumps. It is a very noticeable change, and good in every single way.
    With a few changes to my current fb I could ride a 27.5" version, and that is the main disappointment to me looking for a "new" bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979 View Post
    With a few changes to my current fb I could ride a 27.5" version, and that is the main disappointment to me looking for a "new" bike.
    I know how that goes. LOL I always have "new bike lust".

    I recently repeated the same ride 4 times on different bikes trying to decide on which bike and wheel size to keep. First on my 26" Knolly Endorphin, then a RIP-9, then the Pivot Firebird. After the ride on the Firebird it was clear that my legs felt best at the end, and I was still bursting over climbs at the end of the ride. So I decided to keep the Firebird regardless of wheel size.

    Than my wheels came in and I did the same ride, and it was even better as a 27.5. So now the Endorphin and RIP-9 are going to be sold. I had decided to keep the Firebird out of the 3 anyways, but the 27.5 wheels sealed the deal.

    The Firebird is really an amazing bike. Not many bikes pedal like an XC bike with 170mm of travel. I know how it is, always lusting for a new bike, but the Firebird is up there with anything on the trail IMO. "New" might not be "better".

    Just putting the 27.5 wheels on my bike made it feel like a "new" bike. I find myself really jonesing to ride it now more than ever.

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    Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere but I have looked.

    What degree angleset have Pivot used in this conversion?
    Does the "new" bike have a tapered or straight fork steerer?

    I'm obviously very interested in doing this conversion to my FB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugor View Post
    Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere but I have looked.

    What degree angleset have Pivot used in this conversion?
    Does the "new" bike have a tapered or straight fork steerer?

    I'm obviously very interested in doing this conversion to my FB.
    I think they slackened it by 1 degree, which to me, my Firebird was plenty slack with a 170mm Lyrik on it, and with bigger wheels I see no need for a slacker angle for my needs, it handles great.

    The new bike still uses the same 1.5" non tapered head tube, which is how they were able to do their angleset. Their angleset is non adjustable from what I gather. The front triangle is the same. You could put an angleset on yours if you want. Or you could do like I did and leave it alone. I was happy with the head angle before. At times the steering felt a tiny bit quick, but now with 27.5 wheels it is perfect.

    Someone said the angleset was so the fork did not hit the downtube, but I took the spring out of my Lyrik, and bottomed it out, and the tire was 2" from the downtube.

    There are other factors that could be the reason for the slackening. They are using a 650B Fox fork. Maybe it has a different offset or something, and they thought the 1 degree change was needed to optimize handling?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugor View Post
    What degree angleset have Pivot used in this conversion?.
    An observation. If you put the pictures of the 27.5 Firebird, next to the 26" Firebird you can hold a piece of paper to the screen in line with the fork tubes, then switch pictures, and the angles appear as if the 26" is slacker, but the 27.5 picture has the rear wheel slightly higher up, and I think the 26" picture has a 180mm fork. So kind of hard to tell actual angle differences that way.

    So the 1 degree angleset could be needed because of either axle offset, or crown offset differences in switching to the 650B fork.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002 View Post
    An observation. If you put the pictures of the 27.5 Firebird, next to the 26" Firebird you can hold a piece of paper to the screen in line with the fork tubes, then switch pictures, and the angles appear as if the 26" is slacker, but the 27.5 picture has the rear wheel slightly higher up, and I think the 26" picture has a 180mm fork. So kind of hard to tell actual angle differences that way.

    So the 1 degree angleset could be needed because of either axle offset, or crown offset differences in switching to the 650B fork.
    We recommend the 1.5 cups for 27.5 conversion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelsdown2002 View Post
    I think they slackened it by 1 degree, which to me, my Firebird was plenty slack with a 170mm Lyrik on it, and with bigger wheels I see no need for a slacker angle for my needs, it handles great.

    The new bike still uses the same 1.5" non tapered head tube, which is how they were able to do their angleset. Their angleset is non adjustable from what I gather. The front triangle is the same. You could put an angleset on yours if you want. Or you could do like I did and leave it alone. I was happy with the head angle before. At times the steering felt a tiny bit quick, but now with 27.5 wheels it is perfect.

    Someone said the angleset was so the fork did not hit the downtube, but I took the spring out of my Lyrik, and bottomed it out, and the tire was 2" from the downtube.

    There are other factors that could be the reason for the slackening. They are using a 650B Fox fork. Maybe it has a different offset or something, and they thought the 1 degree change was needed to optimize handling?
    Thanks for the info.
    I thought I'd look for a 160 or 170mm 650B fork rather than squeeze into my old 26 TALAS.
    Doesn't appear one exists. There isn't really a 29er fork that suitable either.
    Might wait till one is available.
    It would be great if Pivot sold a 650B upgrade kit (or lunchbox) consisting of forks, angleset, wheels!

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    Dan, will Pivot sell the 1.5 degree fixed cups for those who want to convert? I'm sure there are other options out there..

    Also, as twowheelsdown speculates, is the slacker front end to compliment a different offset on 650b forks?...i haven't research those yet.

    thanks-rip

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    Quote Originally Posted by ripley View Post
    Dan, will Pivot sell the 1.5 degree fixed cups for those who want to convert? I'm sure there are other options out there..

    Also, as twowheelsdown speculates, is the slacker front end to compliment a different offset on 650b forks?...i haven't research those yet.

    thanks-rip
    Ripley,

    We have no plans to sell this headset aftermarket at this time. As we move forward selling frames and complete bikes, if we notice we will indeed have an excess of headsets, then we will offer them for sale later in the year. Right now, we can't get enough made for the demand of new Firebird sales. It's exciting for us, but I know it may be disappointing to those of you who want this headset.

    Truth is, we still have good demand for the 26" bikes. So, we are in a little bit of an unknown situation that is creating some excitement on our end trying to manage parts delivery etc.

    I would suggest using what is currently available to make the conversion. That is how Chris tested his Firebird to confirm he liked what changes it made to the frame. He liked it. The Cane Creek Angleset 1.5 cups work great.
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan23 View Post
    Ripley,

    I would suggest using what is currently available to make the conversion. That is how Chris tested his Firebird to confirm he liked what changes it made to the frame. He liked it. The Cane Creek Angleset 1.5 cups work great.

    Oooooor an even better idea since you really only need the 1.5 option and Cane Creek anglesets s*ck (finicky setup and tend to creak, snap, crackle and pop) and can't be purchased in 1.5 alone, only 1.0 option for single setting or you have to buy one of the multiple option sets ($$$), get a Works Components 1.5 headset that doesnt make sh!tty noises when you ride and are proven, plus they're cheaper.
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  79. #79
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    Dan, is there a way to buy the updated rear triangle only for the Firebird?

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    Will Maxxis high roller 2 fit in the new rear triangle? 27.5 tire measures 61/584. Does not make me very confident that one has to gues about the rear tire on a bike like this. It needs high volume Tires for the terrain it is designed for. Is it going to be a similar list from pivot like you have for 429 alu on tire fitments? I'm thinking going 26 in the back and 27 in the front might be an option But again using the Proper fork for this type of bike I mean 170-180 mm of travel that it was designed for will limit the sizes of front tire as well. ( didn't someone post only neomoto fits in his lyric). So I'm back to running big tire In the front like big Betty or muddy Mary 2.5 on a 170 fork Sorry still trying to make sense of this conversion. I really want to like it. But it does not make much sense now for me.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilyam3 View Post
    Will Maxxis high roller 2 fit in the new rear triangle? 27.5 tire measures 61/584. Does not make me very confident that one has to gues about the rear tire on a bike like this. It needs high volume Tires for the terrain it is designed for. Is it going to be a similar list from pivot like you have for 429 alu on tire fitments? I'm thinking going 26 in the back and 27 in the front might be an option But again using the Proper fork for this type of bike I mean 170-180 mm of travel that it was designed for will limit the sizes of front tire as well. ( didn't someone post only neomoto fits in his lyric). So I'm back to running big tire In the front like big Betty or muddy Mary 2.5 on a 170 fork Sorry still trying to make sense of this conversion. I really want to like it. But it does not make much sense now for me.
    The Schwalbe Hans Dampf fits. The new Maxxis HR2 is smaller diameter so it too should fit although I haven't stuck one in there
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    Is the new FB 275 going to be available in an extra large? Please don't forget about us sasquatches out there... I really really want this bike... but a 19" seat tube is way too short for a 6'4"+ tall guy

  84. #84
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    Guy I've looked at those and the look the real deal.

    I've just put some 650b wheels on mine and I'm running 2009 fox 36 160mm float forks
    What headset would I need to order from works? 1 or 1.5 degrees. what size and what stack
    Sorry for the dumb question but I'm not to clued up on the tech side of things

  85. #85
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    I hope Pivot makes a Firebird 29er. Long travel 29ers are the future. 27.5 is a step backwards.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevanlloyd View Post
    I hope Pivot makes a Firebird 29er. Long travel 29ers are the future. 27.5 is a step backwards.
    Are you kidding? I have owned a few 29ers. Old RIP-9, new RIP-9, GT Sensor 9R, and Lenz Behemoth. Some things I liked and some things I didn't compared to a 26" bike.

    Now with the 27.5, I never hit a spot on the trail that I wish I was on one of the other 2 wheel sizes instead.

    I think long travel 29ers are more likely to fade out, and 27.5 will take their place.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by aevanlloyd View Post
    I hope Pivot makes a Firebird 29er. Long travel 29ers are the future. 27.5 is a step backwards.
    What has made you so cranky? You took the time to post the same troll like messages in two different posts berating 27.5. Sure a long travel 29er is good for some folks (ESP 6'2 and above) but are tanks for shorter folks (5'9) and are not at all as playful as a 26 or 27.5. Being dogmatic about wheel sizes is silly; having options is a good thing. You like 29ers, then great. And I do hope Pivot comes out with a long travel 29er. But it's not either or with 27.5 and it's anything but a step backwards. Do you also go to car forums and complain about all the different wheel and tires sizes or go to tech forums and complain about all the TV sizes, smart phone options, etc.? Bikes are toys, enjoy riding, and buy the bike (and wheel size) that best meets your style.

  88. #88
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    To bring the thread back to the subject:
    Do you guys think Pivot would make a carbon Firebird now that the 6 is out. It looks like they would be too close.

    I like the way the 27.5 Firebird rides and was waiting for the carbon version, but with the 6 I guess I have to test ride the new bike again to get the feel for it.

  89. #89
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    I still think the FB needs to be in carbon. In that questionably translated German article, Chris Cocalis hinted at something in 2014 along those lines it sounded like.
    2011 Giant Glory 01
    2013 Pivot Firebird
    2004 Turner Rail - Stoled

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMW503 View Post
    What has made you so cranky? You took the time to post the same troll like messages in two different posts berating 27.5. Sure a long travel 29er is good for some folks (ESP 6'2 and above) but are tanks for shorter folks (5'9) and are not at all as playful as a 26 or 27.5. Being dogmatic about wheel sizes is silly; having options is a good thing. You like 29ers, then great. And I do hope Pivot comes out with a long travel 29er. But it's not either or with 27.5 and it's anything but a step backwards. Do you also go to car forums and complain about all the different wheel and tires sizes or go to tech forums and complain about all the TV sizes, smart phone options, etc.? Bikes are toys, enjoy riding, and buy the bike (and wheel size) that best meets your style.
    I've never even ridden a 29'er except for a real cyclocross bike and I'm considering trying 27.5
    "It looks flexy"

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