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  1. #51
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    I'm not advocating being a prick; it's just an observation in Wiss. Anywhere else I've ridden it's the reverse- 8 out of 10 people on the trail are friendly or at least cordial...ah the city of brotherly love.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kai_ski View Post
    I'm not accusing you or anybody else here that is anti-bridge, however I noticed some obvious anti-bridge graffiti on said bridge during my ride this week. Bridges I can live with, there are still A LOT of technical features in the Wiss, but it's a real bummer to see (and I'm assuming here) riders voicing their derision in the form of vandalism. That kind of response is not going to win us any favors in the future when it comes to the topic of re-routes, ride-arounds and conserving technical features.

    If anyone here knows who is responsible, lean on them to make it right with FOW.
    What about that graffiti in any way indicated that it was done by mountain bikers not happy about the bridge? Granted I did not stop and study it, but it looked like garden variety graffiti to me, no different than any of the other graffiti in the Wiss. Seems like a bit of a leap to me to accuse mountain bikers of it.

  3. #53
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    Knock on wood.. but people have been pretty friendly to me for the most part. I'm super nice to everyone when I ride there too. At the end of the day, you're always going to get a$$holes no matter what. Kill em with kindness.

  4. #54
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    Re: What happened to the Wis???

    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    Ban bikes? That might be a little fatalistic. There are already plenty of conflicts back there between cyclists and people, dogs, a cat on leash in a tree at eye level (really), d-bags, role playing COS guys, angry lesbians riding horses, angry hiker guy, angry geese,the group ride from Guy's, space aliens, punk rock squirrels, almost any resident of Chestnut Hill walking in the park with that look on their face like someone next to them farted, etc., and there hasn't been a ban.

    As a practical matter there are too many of us to ban; the city doesn't have the resources to enforce a ban; at this point mountain biking in that park has a +20 year history. Its as legit as any other activity and a ban never going to happen. Also, the FOW has been infiltrated by mountain bikers - very Machiavellian thinking by those mountain bikers.
    Older thread but for some reason I reread this and just laughed like crazy! Angry lesbians riding horses exactly described my Saturday! My God city life is weird.

    Anyway... there should be a "weird stuff at the Wiss" thread. It can get strange in there. lol

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    They are designed to encourage conflicts between bikes and people. Just wait, once it happens, they will move to ban bikes in the wiss. It is coming, just a matter of time...
    If it's enforced like the permits and the dog leash law, ban away...

  6. #56
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    What happened to the Wis???

    Is anybody going to ride tomorrow?

  7. #57
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    I'm thinking about it. Today was napping weather.

  8. #58
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    I'm curious how much rain the trails got over the last two days. I'm hoping to go for an afternoon ride at Belmont or Pennypack (or Wiss). Anybody go out today? Was it muddy?

  9. #59
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    i haven't ridden the Wiss as much as i would have liked to this season, but last wed, i did a partial loop, counter clockwise from Cresheim Trail at Allen Ln, finished the chestnut hill side and the entire Roxboro side and then went over to Belmont and did half a loop there. i realized why i haven't ridden belmont so much: apart from Cresheim trail and the south side of lincoln dr, it kinda sucks. Poison ivy is out of control there and the trails are in pretty bad shape. i've never seen erosion as bad as it is right now, between that and the fact that a lot of the corners are blown out, the decent lines erased in favor of the easiest possible route and the trail having grown to at least 8' wide or more throughout the park, the trail is barely recognizable any more.

    While i didn't quite hate it, it's really been dumbed down in a bad way and apart from the climbing, isn't all that challenging any more. I don't know what's going on with FOW, but they really seem to be sleeping on their McLeods these days. I wouldn't describe Wissahickon as Philadelphia's MTB Crown Jewel any longer, that's for sure. It's really fallen apart in the few short years that i've ridden there.
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  10. #60
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    It wasn't so muddy as it was slippery.

    I haven't ridden the chestnut hill side in years. From valley green south seems fine though. I definitely agree though that FOW need to get it together. Send out a request for volunteers.. I would help without question! As I'm sure others would too.

  11. #61
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    I think anyone who rides at the Wiss would agree that more trail maintenance is needed there. But the causes of that are a lot more complicated than saying FOW is sleeping on their mcleods. They've built some awesome new trail in the past couple years -- down to Kitchen's lane, down from Bluebell, across the Meadow, and Cresheim, some of my favorite trails in the Wiss now. And they do a decent job of clearing treefall.

    So they're not sleeping. They just apparently lack the capacity for also battling park-wide trail erosion and clearing sightlines and discouraging shortcuts and the rest. And there's plenty of blame to go around for that. In my opinion, bickering about blame is more problem than solution by this point.

    I still love riding in the Wiss. And I believe better days are ahead for trail work there.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by stunnerable View Post
    It wasn't so muddy as it was slippery.

    I haven't ridden the chestnut hill side in years. From valley green south seems fine though. I definitely agree though that FOW need to get it together. Send out a request for volunteers.. I would help without question! As I'm sure others would too.
    Here is a list of upcoming workdays.

    Upcoming Workdays | Friends of the Wissahickon

    If you want to help build the Cresheim Trail, there are work days every third Saturday. We are finishing up a new half mile section of trail on the September work day. Sign up for the mailing list here.
    http://cresheimtrail.org

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    . i've never seen erosion as bad as it is right now, between that and the fact that a lot of the corners are blown out, the decent lines erased in favor of the easiest possible route and the trail having grown to at least 8' wide or more throughout the park, the trail is barely recognizable any more.
    Virtually all of the newer (2006 and later) trails are erosion free. After big storms the only damage the new trails suffer is from trees falling. Most of the major gully trails have been closed and replaced with sustainable trails. Two new trails will be built this fall on the Roxy side to replace gully trails. These gullies will be filled in the spring.

    The entire trail system at the Andorra Nature Center will have been rerouted or repaired by this fall. A lot of work has been occurring on the Cresheim Trail with a half mile of trail built this summer. Nearly two miles of trail has been built on the Cresheim Trail since 2012.

  14. #64
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    Thank you dannmer that wat great information. I'll see when I can come out! Love to be part of this.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    They've built some awesome new trail in the past couple years -- down to Kitchen's lane, down from Bluebell, across the Meadow, and Cresheim, some of my favorite trails in the Wiss now.
    Thanks for pointing out the positive. I agree with you, those newer trails are fun. Where exactly is the Cresheim section you are talking about?

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollinrox View Post
    Thanks for pointing out the positive. I agree with you, those newer trails are fun. Where exactly is the Cresheim section you are talking about?
    Do a google maps search for "intersection of Emlen St and Cresheim Rd., Philadelphia." The trails are shown on the map as the Cresheim Trail. My favorite section is the loop on the north side of Cresheim Rd, counterclockwise for the flow. Short and sweet, low hiker traffic.

    You can connect this by coming up the trail along Cresheim Creek from VGI, across the steel bridge.

  17. #67
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    Will this be connected to the wiss loop?

  18. #68
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    Thanks Oldman. I typically ride the CH side of the wiss upstream. So I come down the hill, cross cresheim creek, then proceed on the main trail up the hill then down to VG road. If I wanted to get to the loop you are describing from the Creshiem creek crossing, how would I?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rollinrox View Post
    Thanks Oldman. I typically ride the CH side of the wiss upstream. So I come down the hill, cross cresheim creek, then proceed on the main trail up the hill then down to VG road. If I wanted to get to the loop you are describing from the Creshiem creek crossing, how would I?
    If I understand you, then how you get there is that you take the last right before you cross the creek at the steel bridge ("So I come down the hill, cross cresheim creek"). That trail comes out at the intersection of Emlen and Cresheim.

    Edit: ignore all that, I think I misunderstood you. You mean you come down that rocky decent (Ton a' Bricks) , do a tight left turn, then cross Cresheim through the stream (then hard climb and down to VGI). Right after you cross the stream, take the trail up to the right instead of going straight up the hill towards VGI. Follow that all the way up to the steel bridge, then left right after the bridge and out to Emlen & Cresheim.

  20. #70
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    I am not sure what steel bridge you are talking about. I meant that I take the main trail starting say at the gate at livezey near the blocky looking white house. I typically take this north to creishem creek, then ride across cresheim creek and continue on to VG road. I imagine I should take another trail from the area of where I ride across cresheim creek to get to the loop you talked about. I am just not sure which one to take.

  21. #71
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    Just saw your edit. Gotchya. Thanks! I will check it out.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannmer View Post
    Two new trails will be built this fall on the Roxy side to replace gully trails.
    It's perverse that the Gorgas down (the legal alternative to Recoil) is the section of trail in the Wiss that's in the worst shape.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    It's perverse that the Gorgas down (the legal alternative to Recoil) is the section of trail in the Wiss that's in the worst shape.
    That is one of the Roxy sections that is being replaced. Should be happening this fall. Check the FOW web site for updates if you want to help out.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    I think anyone who rides at the Wiss would agree that more trail maintenance is needed there. But the causes of that are a lot more complicated than saying FOW is sleeping on their mcleods. They've built some awesome new trail in the past couple years -- down to Kitchen's lane, down from Bluebell, across the Meadow, and Cresheim, some of my favorite trails in the Wiss now. And they do a decent job of clearing treefall.

    So they're not sleeping. They just apparently lack the capacity for also battling park-wide trail erosion and clearing sightlines and discouraging shortcuts and the rest. And there's plenty of blame to go around for that. In my opinion, bickering about blame is more problem than solution by this point.

    I still love riding in the Wiss. And I believe better days are ahead for trail work there.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannmer View Post
    Virtually all of the newer (2006 and later) trails are erosion free. After big storms the only damage the new trails suffer is from trees falling. Most of the major gully trails have been closed and replaced with sustainable trails. Two new trails will be built this fall on the Roxy side to replace gully trails. These gullies will be filled in the spring.

    The entire trail system at the Andorra Nature Center will have been rerouted or repaired by this fall. A lot of work has been occurring on the Cresheim Trail with a half mile of trail built this summer. Nearly two miles of trail has been built on the Cresheim Trail since 2012.

    The Cresheim section has become my favorite part of going to Wissahickon, in part because it's more like Belmont than the rest of Wissahickon, but i attribute that to Friends of the Cresheim Trail rather than FoW.
    the rest of it though, is just a lot of damage done by lazy, careless riders who ride in wet conditions and make too many shortcuts that have ruined so much of the trails, particularly on the Roxboro side, where there's also still too much erosion and poison ivy overgrowth.

    it's a strange summer when i find that Belmont is better maintained and has less poison ivy than the Wiss. Fortunately, Belmont is hard enough to ride that the people who want it to be easy, stay away and ruin the wiss, instead.
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by stunnerable View Post
    Will this be connected to the wiss loop?
    If you are referring to the Cresheim Trail, it is connected to the Wissahickon loop via the trail that runs along the Cresheim Creek. Google maps doesn't show the entire trail that runs along the Cresheim Creek between Emlen and Devils Pool.

  26. #76
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    Re: What happened to the Wis???

    Quote Originally Posted by dannmer View Post
    If you are referring to the Cresheim Trail, it is connected to the Wissahickon loop via the trail that runs along the Cresheim Creek. Google maps doesn't show the entire trail that runs along the Cresheim Creek between Emlen and Devils Pool.
    Thanks for the clarification. That's exactly what I was looking at.

  27. #77
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    I was thinking about it.. it would be awesome if someone who REALLY knows the Wiss could make a detailed trail map with the proper names of the different sections. Any map currently available is weak at best.

    Figured I'd share.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by stunnerable View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. That's exactly what I was looking at.
    I just edited google maps to include the missing section of trail from the bridge across Cresheim Creek to Emlen Street. I also added the newly completed section of the Cresheim Trail. Edits take up to a week or two to show up on Google Maps.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    I think anyone who rides at the Wiss would agree that more trail maintenance is needed there. But the causes of that are a lot more complicated than saying FOW is sleeping on their mcleods. They've built some awesome new trail in the past couple years -- down to Kitchen's lane, down from Bluebell, across the Meadow, and Cresheim, some of my favorite trails in the Wiss now. And they do a decent job of clearing treefall.

    So they're not sleeping. They just apparently lack the capacity for also battling park-wide trail erosion and clearing sightlines and discouraging shortcuts and the rest. And there's plenty of blame to go around for that. In my opinion, bickering about blame is more problem than solution by this point.

    I still love riding in the Wiss. And I believe better days are ahead for trail work there.
    I actually thought the opposite! I have not ridden it much since all the car break-ins (now close to 20+) but I rode last week and was reminded how fun it is! The trail erosion is obvious and lots of work needs to be done but the Wiss is still one heck of a fun ride.

    I personally hate the trail down to kitchens lane and the meadows - trails designed for only walkers...
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  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    So they're not sleeping. They just apparently lack the capacity for also battling park-wide trail erosion and clearing sightlines and discouraging shortcuts and the rest.

    I still love riding in the Wiss. And I believe better days are ahead for trail work there.
    Perhaps i'm playing a little too fast and loose with metaphors... That said, compared to Belmont this season, the contrast is night and day. Granted, Walt & Mark at Belmont have dramatically stepped up the trail work this year, with several new sections of great trail, combined with weather conditions that inhibited the growth of poison ivy are making it super awesome this summer. The added bonus is that most riders can't stand all the logs there- they'll ride it once and go back to wissahickon, which means that it doesn't see nearly as much traffic and resulting erosion and because the B-mont regulars are very protective of the trails, there aren't any shortcuts being made or any trail modification going on there.
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  31. #81
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    Belmont could be more fun if it wasn't for the overdone log overs. I mean.. I like log overs but it can get ridiculous out there. Just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    Perhaps i'm playing a little too fast and loose with metaphors... That said, compared to Belmont this season, the contrast is night and day. Granted, Walt & Mark at Belmont have dramatically stepped up the trail work this year, with several new sections of great trail, combined with weather conditions that inhibited the growth of poison ivy are making it super awesome this summer. The added bonus is that most riders can't stand all the logs there- they'll ride it once and go back to wissahickon, which means that it doesn't see nearly as much traffic and resulting erosion and because the B-mont regulars are very protective of the trails, there aren't any shortcuts being made or any trail modification going on there.


    All very true. The Belmont guys do an amazing job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stunnerable View Post
    I was thinking about it.. it would be awesome if someone who REALLY knows the Wiss could make a detailed trail map with the proper names of the different sections. Any map currently available is weak at best.
    Yeah, that's been a crying need for a long time. Getting lost isn't much of an issue, but it's hard for people to talk about specific places without knowing the names.

    This doesn't solve the problem -- signage and maps are the solution -- but I actually think the advent of Strava helps. The Wiss is broken up into dozens of Strava segments, and those segment names usually are the accepted names. A thought.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by stunnerable View Post
    Belmont could be more fun if it wasn't for the overdone log overs. I mean.. I like log overs but it can get ridiculous out there. Just my opinion.
    For the first 2 years that i rode there, i felt the same way. between the logs and the poison ivy, i hated Belmont and b¡tched EVERY time i rode there. This spring, however, something clicked. it's now my favorite place to ride. once you find the rhythm, it's awesome and always challenging.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    All very true. The Belmont guys do an amazing job.
    i've come to the conclusion that Belmont is a special place. in this day and age, where IMBA Trail Solutions guidelines mean that most public trails are like Big Macs, i.e. the same, bland, buffed out flow, with predominately beginner trails, go-arounds for technical features and nothing that you could possibly get hurt on unless you were a complete dumbass, Belmont is both a throwback and a breath of fresh air. it has few compromises and rewards patience, persistence and skill. if you lack those qualities, maybe Belmont isn't for you. if you at least possess patience and persistence, Belmont will reward you with skill, but it won't coddle you with buffed out flow. instead, it will keep you on your toes and slap you in the face or throw you OTB if you're not paying attention.
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  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by stunnerable View Post
    Belmont could be more fun if it wasn't for the overdone log overs. I mean.. I like log overs but it can get ridiculous out there. Just my opinion.
    No way, I say more, more, more!
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  36. #86
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    I haven't been to Belmont in years. Maybe headed to the Wiss on Sunday. How is Belmont RE: navigating?
    Gigantic's post makes me want to check it out again.
    I liked it before...skills have picked up and looking for what he's described.

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    I gave up on learning trail names in wiss as well. I use mapmyride app which helps you figure out where you have been, and how to make it back again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reformed roadie View Post
    I haven't been to Belmont in years. Maybe headed to the Wiss on Sunday. How is Belmont RE: navigating?
    Gigantic's post makes me want to check it out again.
    I liked it before...skills have picked up and looking for what he's described.
    I somehow stumbled across this map that shows trails with names at Belmont...

    Philadelphia Super Address Map | PDQ

  39. #89
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    That's a few years old, Belmont has changed quite a bit since that was made. There are a ton of new trails and a number of trails have been abandoned or rerouted because they weren't sustainable. It's not a bad start, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    That's a few years old, Belmont has changed quite a bit since that was made. There are a ton of new trails and a number of trails have been abandoned or rerouted because they weren't sustainable. It's not a bad start, though.
    someone is doing a pretty good job w belmont on openstreetmap (haven't studied these for current-ness but a few of the newer trails are on here for sure):
    OpenStreetMap

    back to the original topic wiss seems about as blown out as it does at the end of every summer. soon the leaves will fall, temps will cool, the summer time bro's will go into hibernation, and the trails will start to narrow a little again... only to be blown out again next summer.

    Vespasianus you hate the new down to kitchens? you are honestly one of the only folks i have ever heard that from. with enough speed that thing is a downhill pumptrack on steriods. my only problem is keeping the tires on the ground long enough to make the turns. As for the meadows; what about the upper section of the downhill from houston playground down toward cathedral??? the non blown out top part is one of the funnest sections in the wiss right now IMHO... Do you remember what those two sections replaced??? The new sh!t is definitely more better.

    having seen the wiss destroyed and come back many years in a row now, i don't get as upset when people f#ck sh!t up there anymore (it just isn't worth the spike in my blood pressure). like a phoenix out of the ashes; next spring new and fun lines will emerge only to get blown out again by the fall. If the blown out trails upset you, make sure to seek out the cresheim trails and the singletrack over on the other side of lincoln. real singletrack does exist in the wiss but it is just in small little sections off of the main trail. you need to know where to look to find it; but finding it isn't hard.

    i know we all know this but; we can't take these philly trails for granted. go ride the trails in pittsburgh sometime @ frick park. while no doubt a fine trail system it's puny size should give you the appreciation that we have 3 parks larger than that; all within philly. one of them is WAY overused but whatever; we should still be really thankful to have all that we do and make sure we speak out to protect them for future generations whenever possible.

  41. #91
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    Amen (and I mean that sincerely).
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

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    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill View Post
    someone is doing a pretty good job w belmont on openstreetmap (haven't studied these for current-ness but a few of the newer trails are on here for sure):
    OpenStreetMap
    Awesome. Thank you

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill View Post
    Vespasianus you hate the new down to kitchens? you are honestly one of the only folks i have ever heard that from. with enough speed that thing is a downhill pumptrack on steriods. my only problem is keeping the tires on the ground long enough to make the turns. As for the meadows; what about the upper section of the downhill from houston playground down toward cathedral??? the non blown out top part is one of the funnest sections in the wiss right now IMHO... Do you remember what those two sections replaced??? The new sh!t is definitely more better.

    having seen the wiss destroyed and come back many years in a row now, i don't get as upset when people f#ck sh!t up there anymore (it just isn't worth the spike in my blood pressure). like a phoenix out of the ashes; next spring new and fun lines will emerge only to get blown out again by the fall. If the blown out trails upset you, make sure to seek out the cresheim trails and the singletrack over on the other side of lincoln. real singletrack does exist in the wiss but it is just in small little sections off of the main trail. you need to know where to look to find it; but finding it isn't hard.

    i know we all know this but; we can't take these philly trails for granted.
    My issue with the section down to kitchens lane is that it has too many blind spots. It is not designed to prevent trail conflicts. Same is true of the meadows section, especially now with the tall grass.

    Also, after climbing the monster, I actually like going straight and taking the old trail, just as fun, if not more! I also like it the other way as well (that sounded wrong but you know what I mean!).

    And your last point is the most important thing. The Wiss, and Belmont, are jewels. Absolute jewels that we should never take for granted. I remember a time when the entire park was open to biking. I don't want to lose any more.
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  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill View Post
    someone is doing a pretty good job w belmont on openstreetmap (haven't studied these for current-ness but a few of the newer trails are on here for sure):
    OpenStreetMap
    That's pretty well complete! EXCELLENT!

    Quote Originally Posted by max-a-mill View Post
    <major snippage> If the blown out trails upset you, make sure to seek out the cresheim trails and the singletrack over on the other side of lincoln. real singletrack does exist in the wiss but it is just in small little sections off of the main trail. you need to know where to look to find it; but finding it isn't hard.

    i know we all know this but; we can't take these philly trails for granted. go ride the trails in pittsburgh sometime @ frick park. while no doubt a fine trail system it's puny size should give you the appreciation that we have 3 parks larger than that; all within philly. one of them is WAY overused but whatever; we should still be really thankful to have all that we do and make sure we speak out to protect them for future generations whenever possible.
    Agreed. Our trails are pretty special- i've not been to any other city parks that have anything like what we have, most city trails are pretty tame.
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  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    My issue with the section down to kitchens lane is that it has too many blind spots. It is not designed to prevent trail conflicts. Same is true of the meadows section, especially now with the tall grass.
    i certainly see your point but how do you do a more twisty trail without occasional blindspots? i used to find trail bells one of the most annoying things ever... but now especially in the wiss i find myself dinging (or just giving a shout when i have no bell) around certain corners for saftey when i ride during busier times of day. i forget the name of the crossing intersection, but if you head down the roxy side, close to the bottom of the park, you get a little fast down that crosses a wider dirt trial in/out of the park then blasts down a little rutted out steep part and finally goes around a highspeed blind turn. after almost creaming a hiker there one time (totally would have been my fault) i now give a warning when dropping that section all the time to make sure people anyone out of sight around that turn knows i am coming. it surely isn't a perfect solution but it re-assures me at least to let off the brakes and get as close to drifting that turn as my nerve will allow...

    if i lived as close to blemont or pennypak as i do to wiss i'd probably hardly ride there but since i live right on the edge of the park i ride it a lot. It does not suit my ideal style of mountainbiking as well as the other two but there are times when it is really nice to have a more well travelled park. for example i plan to put in A LOT of riding in the dark there this winter; probably a good bit of it solo. having a little saftey in numbers once it gets dark and cold is AWESOME!!!!

    speaking of... anyone in need of a wiss nightride buddy, PM me... I lost my bike commute for this school year so I need to make up for it with lots of after-work riding.

  46. #96
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    Here is some background on the Kitchens Lane down trail. It was designed by an equestrian trail designer and the line is fairly close to an earlier IMBA Trails Solutions proposal. It was built with input from various user groups and they all seemed to be very happy with the new trail since it was a huge improvement over the old trail in reducing user conflict.

    It can be very challenging to build trails in a narrow gorge. At Kitchens Lane you have to lose a lot of elevation in a very small piece of land. Two switchback had to be built, the lower one has a lot of low-growing bushes on the inside of the turn and there are issues with visibility during the summer. There used to be chokes above the lower switchback but users removed them. Other parts of the trail appear to be blind but when you walk the trail with someone 60 feet away from you it is quite easy to see the other person.
    Last edited by dannmer; 09-09-2014 at 05:01 AM.

  47. #97
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    Rode Belmont yesterday. I hit almost everything on that map. It was kind of weird, being the only rider there on a gloomy day. Saw lots of used condoms on the ground at the lot I parked at (on chamounix), but no one broke into my car ! Woot.

    The trails were interesting, not a lot of opportunity for speed. But some of the tech features and turn sequences were cool. I need a bash guard for the logovers - I broke a roller on my chain on one of them.

    Lots of broken glass. Chances of running over sleeping homeless person - 30%? A few of those trails lead to pretty tight quarters, and with the absence of other people, I was a little worried that my 3" knife wouldn't be sufficient if I needed help.

  48. #98
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    Yeah, I wouldn't recommend parking there. I've never heard of anyone getting attacked there in recent years, it's not even something that ever crosses my mind.
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  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannmer View Post
    Here is some background on the Kitchens Lane down trail. It was designed by an equestrian trail designer and the line is fairly close to an earlier IMBA Trails Solutions proposal. It was built with input from various user groups and they all seemed to be very happy with the new trail since it was a huge improvement over the old trail in reducing user conflict.

    It can be very challenging to build trails in a narrow gorge. At Kitchens Lane you have to lose a lot of elevation in a very small piece of land. Two switchback had to be built, the lower one has a lot of low-growing bushes on the inside of the turn and there are issues with visibility during the summer. There used to be chokes above the lower switchback but users removed them. Other parts of the trail appear to be blind but when you walk the trail with someone 60 feet away from you it is quite easy to see the other person.
    Thanks for the information Dan but I still don't like the trail. Not as someone who rides his bike on the trail and definitely not as someone who walks with his kid on the trail.
    Also, the previous trail was a straight down rock strewn double-track trail that no walkers ever went on. I can't believe that had many user conflicts as I doubt it had many users…

    But it is OK to disagree. We all want the same thing and that is good! (:
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  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Rode Belmont yesterday. I hit almost everything on that map. It was kind of weird, being the only rider there on a gloomy day. Saw lots of used condoms on the ground at the lot I parked at (on chamounix), but no one broke into my car ! Woot.

    The trails were interesting, not a lot of opportunity for speed. But some of the tech features and turn sequences were cool. I need a bash guard for the logovers - I broke a roller on my chain on one of them.

    Lots of broken glass. Chances of running over sleeping homeless person - 30%? A few of those trails lead to pretty tight quarters, and with the absence of other people, I was a little worried that my 3" knife wouldn't be sufficient if I needed help.
    Yes, those are the downsides of Belmont. It is not the sleeping homeless person you have to worry about. It is the shting homeless person that gets really mad that you interrupted his morning poop. You will never ride those trails faster than when you are being chased by a naked homeless man throwing his poop at you...
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