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  1. #1
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    Good job! State Game Land Duiscussion cont. from "Have you seen these guys"

    Let's continue here as the other post was not about our topic:


    dankilling
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NEPMTBA
    Not trying to be a "dick" and you probally won't admit to this question:

    All the places you ride you have permission?

    Lot's of Mt. bikers ride everywhere. Would you allow that on your private land?.. Mt bikers are not alone in the private thing, yes were not firing weapons..... but!

    I think it's not about the group as a "WHOLE" yet the individauals who trespass be they Hunters or Mt Bikers...



    Ill bite- And I dont take it as a 'dick' argument because I would make the same kind of argument. Have I always ridden legal trails- I do my best, but I am sure I have been places I probably should not have been. My point here is if I am being kicked off land because another group is making rules around access without regard to my input or activity, then they turn around and do exactly the action they are prohibiting me from, then I dont think either party has a leg to stand on. That said, I can guarantee any questionable trails I have ridden on WERE legal before the PGC closed land for bogus reasons. If they expect everyone to follow their rules, why do they turn a blind eye to when their constituents arent following the rules either? And yes, I would allow unarmed access to my land for recreational use if I had a significant enough plot to make it worth offering as long as the activity was not destructive.
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    1 Minute Ago #17
    NEPMTBA
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    I do think we have hijacked this post... I appologise for that...

    Ok. I hope everybody is listening here.

    So where was the PGC out of order kicking us off their land? Show me where it says it "was" legal to ride a Mt bike in game lands! We have no input! Mt biking is not "hunting" or "preservation of land" Were not "game" or "food" for game so how do you justify we belonged there in the first place, because we rode there for years gives us the right to be accepted? They did give us designated routes. I use them even if they are non connected dead ended trails.

    Second question then Why isn't your land already open to Mt bikers? They are unarmed, but nondestructive is in the eye of the beholder, so I can't discern your take on that.

    This is exactly why Mt Bikers won't gain any ground. You as well as others won't take "No" for an answer, and further more you show no respect for the other group. If you allowed hunters on your property and set rules that they are to watch for poaching, dumping, suspicious activities you will start to gain respect in the hunting community! Legal Hunters don't like poachers either. We have the same agreement with the Nature Conservancy to watch for dumping, illegal hunting, and other non productive activities, even Mt Bikers being disrespectful. Hunters will do as we do also.

    We were just given permission to develop trails on land from the Nature Conservancy. I went to the meeting met with hunters as well as all forms of users, non motorized. Hunters asked me what kind of trail I was going to build. I didn't say A 'Mt Bike trail" It is a multi use trail that I feel will allow deer to use as well as the hunters to aid in the removal of their kill via a groomed, connected trail system. They stepped back. I gave them no fight! They were shocked I could see it! So I ask you what impression did I leave them with? Would they rather drag deer out through scrub oak, basically making it impossible to preserve any chance of having their deer mounted if they so wish or a groomed trail? Hum...Let's see Mt Biker's Design, build, and maintain a trail system that hunters get to use with no effort on their part. I will let you know how many show up on our workday to help us! I willing to bet they show! Remember this land is not governed under state rules. We are allowed to ride there all year, but I bet the local Mt Bikers will respect the hunting going on there certain times a year. Win... Win... situation! Keep watching as we will have the first Hunting/Mt Biking club in the state of PA!

    Nice discussing this important matter with you! I respect your opinions.

    LC

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    13 Minutes Ago #18
    kmoses
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    First off, if you ride on 'game lands' or 'WMA's' then HUNTERS paid for those lands, not mountain bikers. IMBA and other mtb groups should be friendly with hunting groups as 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend.' The hippee, tree hugging, hikers are trying to get all of us thrown off of public land (e.g. wilderness areas). I find it hard to believe there aren't alternate places for mtb's to go during hunting season. I ride and I hunt and I'm finding it's becoming more difficult to find land to do either. Sure, some hunters poach just like some mtb's, but the majority of hunters are good people, just like mtb's. Hunter numbers are decling, in part, because its more difficult to find land to hunt. Mtb's will be next if they don't choose their battles carefully.
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  2. #2
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    Good job!

    Sorry my sig line shows up on all the posts. You'll just have to be honorary members of NEPMTBA for a while...Great conversation though...

  3. #3
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    Hope I'll bit too

    I am so sick of the misinformed argument that "hunters paid for those lands"....it's indeed a half-truth. Some of those tracts were donated by private individuals or organizations for the sake of preservation. Others were acquired via land-swap deals. Some were bought by the PGC for a price that You or I could never get land that cheap for.

    The thing that really gets to me it this; the PGC's primary mandate is to "manage wildlife", and thats fine. (even though wildlife managed to manage itself for millions of years until the 20th century) The fact that 1.4 million + acres of Commonwealth land's resources are being sold off for the sole benefit of one agency with almost no legislative oversight is what gets me steamed. Those natural resources (timber, coal, oil and natural gas wells, etc.), and the profits from their sale, are NOT being used for the direct benefit of the people of this state. Instead, the revenue from the sale of these resources is funneled into the PGC's coffers and used to further their own agendas and "manage" wildlife. (and I know quite a few hunters who are NOT happy with the PGC's deer management).

    So, in a way, SGL's are run like private land, for the use of paying customers (hunters) who pay for the privilege of taking a resource (deer and other wildlife) from the land. Hunting is long established and has been around much longer than mtb'rs have, obviously, so they are given priority in using those lands through licensing of their activity. I still have yet to see where hunting licences PAY for the LAND. And if someone could please just show me this, I would shut up. By the way, that would make it "private" which would mean that taxes would have to be paid on those 1.4+ million acres like all the rest of us "private" land owners are required to do. And also explain what the "STATE" means in State Game Lands and State Game Comm.?

    ok rant over.

    pedal for peace!

  4. #4
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    How would "we" as a group (cyclists)Put this plan into action...

    Even the field between hunters (they pay for a permit to hunt) Boaters (they pay for a launch permit)Snowmobilers (ohv registration) and ourselves, We should pay for a parking permit that is statewide and would give us access to any park area. The money should be used to help in trail maintenance, portapoties and trash collection at parking areas. I am amazed that as long as I have been riding (since 89) I have been doing it for free. Look at the parks in MD and DE, they are well maintained and we even have trails "not fit for equestrian use" for a $3 parking fee. I spend more than that on bars and gel for a ride.

    I don't know why a plan like this has not been put into action and don't think people would object to a $30 a year sur charge to ride the mtb mecca that is PA.

  5. #5
    my church is the woods
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    follow up

    I just did a little fact checking on the PGC's website myself, to see if in fact "hunters paid for that land"...and it depends on how you frame the argument.

    I frame it like this. based on the PGC's annual agency reports available here, from 2001 thru 2006, the sale of Timber and other wood products accounted for $77,785,508 in revenue. The same period, the Land purchases and acquisition costs were $11,625,231. Granted, this is only over a 6 year period, but it's all thats available online.

    Soooooo, to me that shows that the sale of one of our state natural resources, timber and wood products, alone paid for the land 7 times over. The remainder of the money doesn't get put back in the state's general fund, for use by the people of the state for payment for the taking of our "common" resources....it goes right back to that agency to support itself, for the benefit of itself, again with little to no legislative oversight. Does anyone else see a problem here?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TortugaTonta
    How would "we" as a group (cyclists)Put this plan into action...

    Even the field between hunters (they pay for a permit to hunt) Boaters (they pay for a launch permit)Snowmobilers (ohv registration) and ourselves, We should pay for a parking permit that is statewide and would give us access to any park area. The money should be used to help in trail maintenance, portapoties and trash collection at parking areas. I am amazed that as long as I have been riding (since 89) I have been doing it for free. Look at the parks in MD and DE, they are well maintained and we even have trails "not fit for equestrian use" for a $3 parking fee. I spend more than that on bars and gel for a ride.

    I don't know why a plan like this has not been put into action and don't think people would object to a $30 a year sur charge to ride the mtb mecca that is PA.
    Im with you here! This is exactly the type of program I would whole-heartedly support, and also exactly the same reason why I get so annoyed with the PGC. I would be more than willing to contribute to their bottom line if they were willing to allow access during non-big game seasons. My question is, why hasn't this ever been an option? My feeling has always been because the PGC isnt willing to compromise, or even listen to other recreational user groups. Since they do not report to any elected government agency, why would they care? They arent accountable for anything anyway....

  7. #7
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    reading comprehension

    This thread and the prior one has spun off on the argument that someone made a claim that "game commission buys the land and/or does so from fees generated from hunting licenses." If you read through these two threads, you will see that no one has made that claim.

    I stated in my post that one of the reasons the hunters have a better lobby with the powers that be is that they generate revenue through paying for hunting licenses.

    The real point here and somebody hit it on the head is that: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"; we should work with the hunters and be respectful in our interactions, so they are less inclined to trash talk us to the game commission land managers and land stewarts. And when the treehuggers come out to try and ban MTBers, nobody in power sees validity to their arguments. The less groups we have opposed to our activities the better.

    Don't get me wrong- I am all for putting your thumb in the eye of the Man and civil disobediance, but it should be done only where appropriate. Otherwise, your marginalized as a malcontent or crybaby.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  8. #8
    my church is the woods
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    Quote Originally Posted by TortugaTonta
    How would "we" as a group (cyclists)Put this plan into action...

    Even the field between hunters (they pay for a permit to hunt) Boaters (they pay for a launch permit)Snowmobilers (ohv registration) and ourselves, We should pay for a parking permit that is statewide and would give us access to any park area. The money should be used to help in trail maintenance, portapoties and trash collection at parking areas. I am amazed that as long as I have been riding (since 89) I have been doing it for free. Look at the parks in MD and DE, they are well maintained and we even have trails "not fit for equestrian use" for a $3 parking fee. I spend more than that on bars and gel for a ride.

    I don't know why a plan like this has not been put into action and don't think people would object to a $30 a year sur charge to ride the mtb mecca that is PA.

    I understand and share your frustration. I've ridden places like Fair Hill and I'm just amazed at the 100+ mile trail system, the clubs, the co-operation with the state park system and other user groups. It seems like a win-win for everyone. Even our own Rattling Creek singletrackers, working with the DCNR is a great example of the positive effect mtb'rs can have.

    But PA has these old entrenched systems, like the PGC and Liquor control board, that are basically "old boys clubs" that exist because they've just always been there and are resistant to giving up their power (and big pensions). With the PGC's mandate being to manage wildlife, they have no interest in managing recreation too. They just want to do just enough to ensure and justify their own existence, and nothing more. Having a user fee/parking fee would legitimize our right as a user group, which means they would have to "manage" us and that isn't in their mandate. So basically, were stuck as long as the current PGC system is in place. And I don't see mtb'rs of PA getting organized enough to have the voice strong enough to change the system. Sorry, but that's the reality I see.

  9. #9
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    What about maintenance and employee salaries. It cost alot of money to maintain roads and food plots, buy necessary equipment, pay game wardens and wildlife managers to look after the land. Owning land is not free. You have to take care of it.
    You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmoses
    What about maintenance and employee salaries. It cost alot of money to maintain roads and food plots, buy necessary equipment, pay game wardens and wildlife managers to look after the land. Owning land is not free. You have to take care of it.
    Absolutely- which is why I would be willing to pay for a 'license' of sorts. But I also think Moonraker nailed it with the statement about them not wanting to manage recreation. I can see that as a point, but the workaround for that in my eyes is then to allow DCNR to oversee the recreation portion, because they do so already. That, however, would mean PGC would have to ease their stranglehold a bit, so I dont see that happening, either.

  11. #11
    my church is the woods
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    Quote Originally Posted by justriding
    This thread and the prior one has spun off on the argument that someone made a claim that "game commission buys the land and/or does so from fees generated from hunting licenses." If you read through these two threads, you will see that no one has made that claim.

    I stated in my post that one of the reasons the hunters have a better lobby with the powers that be is that they generate revenue through paying for hunting licenses.

    The real point here and somebody hit it on the head is that: "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"; we should work with the hunters and be respectful in our interactions, so they are less inclined to trash talk us to the game commission land managers and land stewarts. And when the treehuggers come out to try and ban MTBers, nobody in power sees validity to their arguments. The less groups we have opposed to our activities the better.
    I was replying to kmoses statement above "First off, if you ride on 'game lands' or 'WMA's' then HUNTERS paid for those lands, not mountain bikers"

    I agree an everything else with you. I am not anti-hunting, or anything like that. My dad hunts, my neighbors/friends hunt. I hear a lot from them on how they hate the way the PGC handles the deer management.
    Although they don't care either way about the clear cuts right down the road, it really annoys me that they do that and also put up "foot travel only " signs on the stoned logging roads that last year they were driving huge yellow diesel powered machines on.

    I'm all for teaming up with the hunting community to try and make some changes in PGC policy.

  12. #12
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    Unfortunately its not just as simple as having mtb's pay for a license. Hunting licenses bring in some revenue, but the big money comes from the feds. The Pittman-Robertson act, which allows an excise tax on ammo, firearms, and other hunting related gear, allocates funds based on number of hunting licenses sold and state land area. Since nothing like that would exist for a 'mtb license' it would be tough.

    Plus, the PGC doesn't manage recreation, they manage wildlife. DCNR has a branch that oversees recreation.
    You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake

  13. #13
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    You know:

    There is all kinds of over lap between DCNR, BOF, PGC, and Parks and Recreaton. The old boy network is retiring. Some where in there someone will have to make a future decision and things "are" changing.

    Here's a curve, the X games became main stream and chased out the usual "Ball" sports, but it was done through big money sponsors.(Mt Dew/pepsico) Will we see the PGC take on cooperate sponsorship? Years ago the fishing guide you got when you bought a license was bla and boring. Now it's filled with advertising abound from cover to cover. The Fish & Game Comm gave into earning money via advertising, So if the Home Depot(HD) backed lobbyist's were to discover this great advertising source it would create mega battles between players like Cabela's, Lowe's, HD, Gander Mt., L.L. Bean...ect to gain the position.

    Here's how the Mt Bikers have to step. The above mentioned don't have the monies/resources to do what we Mt.Bikers need. They don't even understand what or how to build/maintain a proper trail. Their books tell them a trail is to be designed via the resource as a highway with shoulders and 30 foot width.

    We Mt Bikers have to file to form a government supported agency. USMTBA. (US Mt Biking Association) Design a system to support all we need Trail Building, Maintenance, Funding. A point lobbyists to promote our concern. Then work to attract corporate sponsors. Each State would have separate divisions ex: PAMTBA and their own PA lobbyist's to apply to their PA state government. Of course the fine line is between Lobbying and Advertising!

    dankilling:

    You are associated to an advertising source. Start pushing for this! I would love to be there to see the look on your Boss's face.


  14. #14
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    Where's IMBA

    Anybody know what the PA IMBA reps are doing along the lines of opening meaningful dialog with the PGC? They should be in Harrisburg, bending people's ears, pointing out what NEPAMBA, Moonraker's and dkilling's groups, and others, have done in their areas and how all user groups benefit.

    Also, look at what the guys out in State College have done: huge trail systems, marathon races and mountain bike nirvana; granted most of the riding is state forests (I don't know for a fact how much if any game lands are involved). There seems to be peaceful coexistence out there. What is their secret?
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by justriding
    Anybody know what the PA IMBA reps are doing along the lines of opening meaningful dialog with the PGC? They should be in Harrisburg, bending people's ears, pointing out what NEPAMBA, Moonraker's and dkilling's groups, and others, have done in their areas and how all user groups benefit.

    Also, look at what the guys out in State College have done: huge trail systems, marathon races and mountain bike nirvana; granted most of the riding is state forests (I don't know for a fact how much if any game lands are involved). There seems to be peaceful coexistence out there. What is their secret?
    Oh I tried not to mention them!

    A while back I Screamed, Cursed, and Yelled and the only thing I got was Joe Transue met with us and paid for our dinner.

    I have asked the same thing over and over and over. My opinion on IMBA is Give us "your Money" Give us "your Money" Give us "your Money" See the trend they do nothing at least not here in NEPA!!!!!!!
    The reason NEPMTBA was formed was cause they did NOTHING for US EVER! Now...I hear Joe Transmission is a Road Rider! I like Joe not to be hard on him. We talked out all our differences and I wish him the best! He's from SEPA though. We here in the NE have a hotbed of Mt Biking right now.

    I do have a person I feel would represent us in our area as an IMBA guy Larry Fahn real name Rob Gregory from Hubbard Bicycle Club.

    Hey IMBA are you listening? We need your help! I have 50 bucks personally and more from our NEPMTBA members if you will help, but I wanna see action for my money! Accept Rob Gregory as our NEPA Representative!

    I don't want to be the one to suggest we hit IMBA's forums, someone else do it. I will chime in later. I guess our rep is from the central part of the state cause I don't know if Joe is still doing IMBA rep stuff.


  16. #16
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    PORC and PTAG in Pittsburgh seem to have a good relationship with someone at PGC. There's a pretty good, maintained trail system on Bavington Game Lands outside Pittsburgh.
    You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by justriding
    Anybody know what the PA IMBA reps are doing along the lines of opening meaningful dialog with the PGC? They should be in Harrisburg, bending people's ears, pointing out what NEPAMBA, Moonraker's and dkilling's groups, and others, have done in their areas and how all user groups benefit.

    Also, look at what the guys out in State College have done: huge trail systems, marathon races and mountain bike nirvana; granted most of the riding is state forests (I don't know for a fact how much if any game lands are involved). There seems to be peaceful coexistence out there. What is their secret?
    Oh I tried not to mention them!

    A while back I Screamed, Cursed, and Yelled and the only thing I got was Joe Transue met with us and paid for our dinner.

    I have asked the same thing over and over and over. My opinion on IMBA is Give us "your Money" Give us "your Money" Give us "your Money" See the trend they do nothing at least not here in NEPA!!!!!!!
    The reason NEPMTBA was formed was cause they did NOTHING for US EVER! Now...I hear Joe Transmission is a Road Rider! I like Joe not to be hard on him. We talked out all our differences and I wish him the best! He's from SEPA though. We here in the NE have a hotbed of Mt Biking right now.

    I do have a person I feel would represent us in our area as an IMBA guy Larry Fahn real name Rob Gregory from Hubbard Bicycle Club.

    Hey IMBA are you listening? We need your help! I have 50 bucks personally and more from our NEPMTBA members if you will help, but I wanna see action for my money! Accept Rob Gregory as our NEPA Representative!

    I don't want to be the one to suggest we hit IMBA's forums, someone else do it. I will chime in later. I guess our rep is from the central part of the state cause I don't know if Joe is still doing IMBA rep stuff.


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    as far as state college area goes, you are right, the big network is all on state forest land with a great relationship with forestry. there is a section of gamelands right next to town that does have some decent trails to ride, but we are in the same boat as everyone else in the state is with regards to riding there. We're just really lucky we dont have to push it since we have such great riding just outside of town. With regards to the IMBA reps, theres really not alot they can do lobby wise etc since there is no way to "push" things in the traditional gov't manner since the PGC doesnt really report to anybody. Plus these guys are just volunteers and have more productive things to work on like the Raystown Lake project, where 30 miles of single track have been planned and have started to be cut.

  19. #19
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    I wonder if I showed up at aNortheastern PA Mt Biking Association meeting and I
    "screamed,cursed and yelled" about the trails at fraces slocum what i would get?
    IMBA and IMBA related groups[Rattling creek single trackers ect...]have produced some
    AMAZING trails.Just check out any of the trails in lykens,state college area to see
    for your self.Just because you have hot seen any results in NEPA does not mean
    IMBA does "nothing".L.C you seem like a driven man,maybe you should be the local
    IMBA rep.
    Mark.

  20. #20
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    To be fair to IMBA and to Joe- he was the speaker at many township meetings that got the Salisbury project going. Yes, he mostly rides road now, but he also has a family and a job to tend to. His participation as IMBA rep is above and beyond what most people are willing to commit to, so until PA has multiple regional reps the whopping two guys who represent us on a national level are doing what can be reasonably expected. If you feel so strongly about Rob Gregory becoming the NEPA IMBA rep, fantastic. I think thats a great idea and IMBA should be approached to make it happen. PA is not a small place, and the more hands/voices we have, the better IMO.

  21. #21
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark
    I wonder if I showed up at aNortheastern PA Mt Biking Association meeting and I
    "screamed,cursed and yelled" about the trails at fraces slocum what i would get?
    IMBA and IMBA related groups[Rattling creek single trackers ect...]have produced some
    AMAZING trails.Just check out any of the trails in lykens,state college area to see
    for your self.Just because you have hot seen any results in NEPA does not mean
    IMBA does "nothing".L.C you seem like a driven man,maybe you should be the local
    IMBA rep.
    Mark.
    Mark:

    Good for them...other areas..not HERE

    I started out being very nice and it all fell on deaf ears. I have other groups who contacted them and got nothing also! We worked. learned, went to workshops, and produced... No excuses. DID IT!
    Yes, I did step up and form our group! I'm also sick of the Joe excuse about the family, the work, the job, thing! We all have that! Step out if you can't do the job! NO MORE EXCUSES! I guess from history they don't care. We went to the Bureau of forestry meeting to talk with them it was advertised ahead of time they would be there. NO SHOW! We did hear they were at the central PA meeting though!

    In less than a year we have helped all of the State Parks and county in NEPA, not just one. I'm not hear to discuss their faults. We did what we had to do here. Others chose to go with them. Fine for them...I'm glad.

    The topic of this discussion is really important you would think they would be here to help us about Pa Gamelands and our possible use of it.

    So I ask you, this if you and other groups asked and were ignored would you still feel the same? Don't give the lame excues they don't know becuse they are busy doing work in Yellowstone chasing Spotted Rabbits!...or changing babys diapers...LOL! Heard it all before!...LOL!


  22. #22
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark
    I wonder if I showed up at aNortheastern PA Mt Biking Association meeting and I
    "screamed,cursed and yelled" about the trails at fraces slocum what i would get?
    IMBA and IMBA related groups[Rattling creek single trackers ect...]have produced some
    AMAZING trails.Just check out any of the trails in lykens,state college area to see
    for your self.Just because you have hot seen any results in NEPA does not mean
    IMBA does "nothing".L.C you seem like a driven man,maybe you should be the local
    IMBA rep.
    Mark.
    Welcome:

    So, I see by your first post you are a Noob here. You list Michaux as your favorite trail. Michaux is pretty big. Any fave trail name? Have you worked places to develop trails...where?
    Please notice I responded to the topic of what IMBA has done "Here in NEPA" not anywhere else.

    LC

  23. #23
    mtbr member
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    Thanks for the welcome LC ,sharp eye!My favorite trail would be the one with
    the rocks.....lol!There are miles and miles of great trails in michaux,but deer bingo
    3 mile trail,graves ridge and the trais around flat rock are always fun.I have done some trail work around michaux,would love to do more ! !! If NEMTBA does any more trail days let me know,I am always willing to help.

  24. #24
    Ride da mOOn Moderator
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by guitarmark
    Thanks for the welcome LC ,sharp eye!My favorite trail would be the one with
    the rocks.....lol!There are miles and miles of great trails in michaux,but deer bingo
    3 mile trail,graves ridge and the trais around flat rock are always fun.I have done some trail work around michaux,would love to do more ! !! If NEMTBA does any more trail days let me know,I am always willing to help.
    Glad you could join us!

    We have workday once a month in the nicer months, now it's not right to ask peolpe to come out and slop in the mud. We just usually handle the work with local members when it crappy out. Spring will be here soon enough. Hey Nice one! The one with the rocks, meaning the trail Is there any that don't have rocks at Micheux?....LOL! You'll have to join us here in NEPA for ride at one or more of our great ride places!

    Nice talk'in to ya!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA
    Oh I tried not to mention them!

    A while back I Screamed, Cursed, and Yelled and the only thing I got was Joe Transue met with us and paid for our dinner.

    I have asked the same thing over and over and over. My opinion on IMBA is Give us "your Money" Give us "your Money" Give us "your Money" See the trend they do nothing at least not here in NEPA!!!!!!!
    The reason NEPMTBA was formed was cause they did NOTHING for US EVER! Now...I hear Joe Transmission is a Road Rider! I like Joe not to be hard on him. We talked out all our differences and I wish him the best! He's from SEPA though. We here in the NE have a hotbed of Mt Biking right now.

    I do have a person I feel would represent us in our area as an IMBA guy Larry Fahn real name Rob Gregory from Hubbard Bicycle Club.

    Hey IMBA are you listening? We need your help! I have 50 bucks personally and more from our NEPMTBA members if you will help, but I wanna see action for my money! Accept Rob Gregory as our NEPA Representative!

    I don't want to be the one to suggest we hit IMBA's forums, someone else do it. I will chime in later. I guess our rep is from the central part of the state cause I don't know if Joe is still doing IMBA rep stuff.

    Ahhh, the beauty of being a lurker. But I guess its time to speak up a bit. Allow me to introduce myself, My name is Frank Maguire and I am the IMBA representative for Central PA. As the Central PA rep, my focus has always been State Forest issues, as the bulk of the state's 2.1 million acres of state forest is within an hour of my house, state college (wonder why we have it so good?). Yep, I'm spoiled and self-centered.
    SO to answer the question of what IMBA is doing in the state:
    1)I sit on the DCNR's Recreational Advisory Committee and have for about 6 years. I started off in the position as the rep for Keystone Mountain Bike Association, but since that was just a name and not much else, I got myself appointed as IMBA Rep. The RAC is a group compiled of all the user groups along with many representatives from state agencies, including State Parks, State Forest and PGC. Yes PGC has realized some what belatedly that they are in the recreation business.
    2) we help coordinate IMBA Trail Care Crew visits in the state, in particular the visits that happened in Lock Haven and French Creek last year. trail Care Crews have inspired both land managers and clubs to greater results, just look at State College, York, Lykens and Raystown. Visits are free, you just have to have a good proposal.
    3) IMBA helped work to create the Philly MBA, one of the largest metro areas in the country without a dedicated mountain bike club. It wouldn't have happened with out key people in Philadelphia, but Ryan And Kristin help facilitate the birth.
    4) The magic that is Lykens was greatly kick started by Keith reaching out to IMBA and a trail care crew visit by Rich and Jen in 2000. It takes time, but few would argue that Lykens isn't a great example of what is possible.
    5) The Army Corps project in Raystown Lake. Haven't heard of it? Thats because there is nothing there yet, but IMBA entered a agreement 5 years ago to develop 30 miles of trails built specifically for mountain bikes. The construction started in October, and by 2009, it will be a destination unlike anything else in the Mid-Atlantic.
    5) Joe Transue in a large part, with the help of the PA Equine Council, have been working with the PGC for several years to come up with a resolution to the game lands issue. There is a draft policy in the works now that will create the opportunity for organized local groups to regain access to their riding spots. No, it won't be a blanket policy of "open unless otherwise posted", but it will create, for the first time, a process by which it will be legal to ride the trails we love. It is not set in stone yet so I am loathe to discuss it further here. From some comments that have been posted o other threads here, I feel like some people have already gotten wind of what is up. IF you feel like the fat kid that no one ever picked, don't worry, you probably are less stressed about it then those of us who have been working on it for years in the dark.
    A little aside, I am a lurker because I don't believe that forums are a very effective form of communication. I would love it if we could all get together over beer and talk this all out. But it isn't going to happen soon, so If anyone wants to discuss this further, please feel free to email me (its in my profile).
    Also, Karl Rosengarth has resigned his position and I think that Joe has decided to take a step back. So I pretty much am it for the short term. As for the comments about "sick of hearing about Joe's Kids, work, etc..." This is a volunteer position. I get to choose how much I do and care, and really I couldn't give a sh!t about your little world if thats your attitude.

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