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  1. #1
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    SGL usage permits for non-hunters

    Anyone else hear about this?

    "One of the most interesting is a suggestion by Southeast Region commission Brian Hoover at the recent quarterly meeting of the board for a study of the viability and potential value of creating a permit that would be required for those who use State Game Lands who are not in possession of a valid hunting of furtaker license. Many states have created similar permits, and the PGC a few years ago created a permit to use the shooting ranges on State Game Lands."

  2. #2
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    So can I ride the SGL if I have my hunting license on me?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyjamesguesswhat View Post
    So can I ride the SGL if I have my hunting license on me?
    yes. but not a weapon too.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    yes. but not a weapon too.
    Quite the contrary; as per current commonwealth law, the only time it is permissible to ride a nonmotorized vehicle on SGLs during hunting season is when one is "...lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping or fishing."
    PA Bulletin, Doc. No. 02-345
    135.41.(5)

  5. #5
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    From what I have been told some "slack" does exist in certain areas.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonz View Post
    Quite the contrary
    huh.

    i'd always found the info and was told the opposite, that you had to walk-in when carrying.

    i sit corrected, thanks Jonz.

  7. #7
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    The interesting thing to me is that if they are going to sell permits, then they have to provide access. This can mean one of two things:
    A) there will be no changes as far as access, they just want people to pay to do what they are now doing for free. Not sure what that includes besides maybe some hiking, birdwatching, XC skiing?

    B) There will be changes in access policy that comes with the permits. I think this is highly unlikely, since the reason they gave for kicking mtbs and horses out in 2002 was because their federal funding stipulated it could only be used for wildlife conservation and not recreation.

    Let's not forget the hunters don't want us on "their" land.
    This quote from 2001:
    "Your average mountain biker wouldn't know Mother Nature if he were running over it. And he is running over it,"
    Steve Wentzel, district director for the Pennsylvania Trappers Association

    Some additional background reading for those who don't remember 2001/2002.

  8. #8
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    SGL usage permits for non-hunters

    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    huh.

    i'd always found the info and was told the opposite, that you had to walk-in when carrying.

    i sit corrected, thanks Jonz.
    Weird law. It's been a few yrs since I've hunted, but I can't imagine how id work a mountain bike into the equation.

    GT guy, I think what you're stated is right on point, and version A is more likely, at least in the near term. Unless the PAGC's network of "Designated Trails" is vastly expanded to include anything halfway decent, I don't see this having much effect on mt bikers at all. Not too many people are going to pay a user fee just to ride the Broad Mountain Loop at Jim Thorpe.

    (Tapa)

  9. #9
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    This is an interesting thread, I just came back from Durango, CO and it is like night and day. They ride, hike, hunt, all on the same land. The mnts. are spotless the people thank you for coming out and using their trail system. Here we can not manage a one man parade. Our trails are littered and if you cross a road you have a better chance of hitting the lottery then not getting hit by a car. Use some common sense allow riders to use the land (permit required if needed) and riders also have to be smart also. Do not ride in state game lands or any other public hunting lands when hunting season is in. If the state and people actually got there head out of their ass they can have some of the best outdoor activities on the east coast.

  10. #10
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    Agreed there
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  11. #11
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    I remember when this became an issue the first time. The problem, as far as getting a forum to change policy, was/is(?) that the SGC has almost complete administrative autonomy over PA's various SGL's. Even if non-hunting permits were provided, the policy would likely remain, "ride on established trails only," oh, and "there are no established trails in SGLs."

    It sounded like a catch-22 at best back then; I think that, at that time, the only "trails" in game lands were essentially fire roads. It wasn't a terrible loss in central PA. We had and still have plenty of other places to ride.

  12. #12
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    This was told to the morons at the game commission back in 1995-1996.
    They were clowns then, they are clowns now.

    I got sick and tired of hearing them whine about how the game commission needed more money, when it was suggested 20 years ago to sell a permit to access the game lands when they first pulled their crap about closing down game lands to bikes.

    I would GLADLY buy a permit to be able to ride places like Lambs Gap, any EXISTING stuff in Gretna, and any other place - even though it would put more money in the hands of those filthy worthless commies.

  13. #13
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    1st off i may be wrong in what i'm about to state but i've been wrong before and i dont feel like doing the reseach. I thought there was a tax built into ammo to fund game commission, along with license fees, so go buy yourself a box of bullets and ride
    let the bashing begin

  14. #14
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    I have never heard of that at all.

    If it indeed were the case - I think that opens up a COMPLETELY new ball of pandoras wax for the hunters, who claim SGL is private properly paid for by the hunters, with no support at all from the outside.

    If the non-hunting public buys ammo that then supports them, their already false premise of private property goes completely out the window!


    *Edit* Pittman Robertson act. Hmm. Potentially could be used to show federal funds (taxes) DO indeed support the game commission. Not sure this would qualify for land however....

  15. #15
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    The P-R funds were the excuse they used to kick bikes and horses off in 2002.

    According to the PGC 2013 annual report, their income was:

    32.3 million from license sales
    1.2M from fines
    32.7M from "miscellaneous sources" (which includes 20M from oil & gas and 8M from wood and coal)
    Totalling 66.2M in "Non Tax Revenue"

    They got 19.6M from Federal Aid (ammunition tax / P-R funds)

    Total revenue was just under 94M.
    Expenses were 92M.
    They have almost 5M in a reserve fund.

  16. #16
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    If they receive one penny of tax (or tax exemption) dollars, it is NOT private, but rather public property.

    Their whole justification for limiting bikes and horses and any other usage they don't want is that it is private property paid for and supported by hunters and hunters alone.

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