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  1. #1
    I'm more of a dog person
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    Pocono Bike Park?

    I have recent knowledge of a Pocono ski mountain that may have interest in putting in a lift access bike park (similar to Diablo in NJ), and I'd like to see a show of hands (or posts in this case) of riders who would be interested in using such a wonderful place. The owner is a little undecided at this point so I thought I might try and help swing the vote in the right direction by demostrating the amount of interest that a local bike park would bring. So anybody in Eastern PA yearning for a good place to ride those big bikes gimme a "Heck Yes"!

  2. #2
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    I speak for about 10 guys at my work that would gladly raise their hands and open their wallets for this....

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    Hell Yeah! And I can think of many more that would love to have something a little closer to home!

  4. #4
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    Berbs, you know that all of is up here in State College would be more than happy to make the trip. Oh, if it helps. HECK YEA!!

    You didnt have any fun when we were at Diablo did you?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by be350ka
    You didnt have any fun when we were at Diablo did you?
    Nah Nate, that place is no fun at all!

  6. #6
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    Heck Yea!
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    Heck ****ing Yea!!!!!!

  8. #8
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    hell yeah! I know many others than would be interested too!
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    Quote Originally Posted by rollertoaster
    hell yeah! I know many others than would be interested too!
    Great! Have them post up on this thread and show some more support. The more posts the better. I will be sending a link to this thread to the owner of the mountain soon, so lets show her how much we want this park!

  10. #10
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    You can look at this two ways.

    ONE: Diablo isn't that far from the Poconos. It would take a lot to draw riders from Diablo considering their relative locations. So, without some thought and DEDICATION it will be tough.

    .....but....

    TWO: Diablo provides a good example of what it takes to make this type of venture work. With a knowledgeable building group and good planning, riders could alternate locations. I for one have to drive past the Poconos to get to Diablo. So, I would love to see this work so that I could drive to the Poconos to ride on a Sat and then after the park closes drive to Diablo for a Sunday ride.

    I really hope this takes off. I think a good way of showing support is to get all the people you know that would be interested to just make a quick post. An e-verbal commitment is a start and could go a long way in helping the land owner put his/her ideas on paper.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by the4berbs
    Great! Have them post up on this thread and show some more support. The more posts the better. I will be sending a link to this thread to the owner of the mountain soon, so lets show her how much we want this park!
    If you need any help PM me.

  12. #12
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    I'd go and maybe even eat at a restaurant there too.

  13. #13
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    Oh yeah!

    I know at least 2-4 ladies that would go! 1.5 hours is better then 2.5 hours!
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailcarver
    I'd go and maybe even eat at a restaurant there too.
    The owner did actually mention to me plans for a resturant, lodging, expansion of the existing ski trails, and a mountain zipline. There's a lot going on here already so I know she has the dedication for this. I'd like for us to give her a hand in getting this done since she is not at all familiar with our sport yet. If anyone has any ideas or thoughts they'd like to share, please speak up. The more we all get involved with this potential project, the happier we can all be with the result.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by be350ka
    You can look at this two ways.

    ONE: Diablo isn't that far from the Poconos. It would take a lot to draw riders from Diablo considering their relative locations. So, without some thought and DEDICATION it will be tough.

    .....but....

    TWO: Diablo provides a good example of what it takes to make this type of venture work. With a knowledgeable building group and good planning, riders could alternate locations. I for one have to drive past the Poconos to get to Diablo. So, I would love to see this work so that I could drive to the Poconos to ride on a Sat and then after the park closes drive to Diablo for a Sunday ride.

    I really hope this takes off. I think a good way of showing support is to get all the people you know that would be interested to just make a quick post. An e-verbal commitment is a start and could go a long way in helping the land owner put his/her ideas on paper.
    Some good thoughts there Nate. I see what you're saying about the proximity of Diablo, but I look at it this way - there are lots of people in the area that ski. There are also quite a few ski resorts in the area. The more ski resorts they have, the more options they have. And I know every one of them is packed in the winter. The same goes for riding. The more parks we have, the more options. Now I know that there's probably not as many "freeriders" out there as skiers, but our sport is growing and growing quickly. Diablo is not going to be the only option for very long. Look what happened with snowboarding in the 90's. I can remember when only one or two mountains allowed it. Now practically every mountain in the Poconos has a terrain park for boarders. It's coming, I'm just trying to help it get here a little faster.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by the4berbs
    Some good thoughts there Nate. I see what you're saying about the proximity of Diablo, but I look at it this way - there are lots of people in the area that ski. There are also quite a few ski resorts in the area. The more ski resorts they have, the more options they have. And I know every one of them is packed in the winter. The same goes for riding. The more parks we have, the more options. Now I know that there's probably not as many "freeriders" out there as skiers, but our sport is growing and growing quickly. Diablo is not going to be the only option for very long. Look what happened with snowboarding in the 90's. I can remember when only one or two mountains allowed it. Now practically every mountain in the Poconos has a terrain park for boarders. It's coming, I'm just trying to help it get here a little faster.
    I agree 100%.

    When the time comes I think the land manager needs to get in touch with the likes of Gravity Logic to get input from the experts. This way the mountain knows exactly where they stand and what to expect from this venture. I have no doubt that it can be done, but doing it properly from the beginning is essential.

    I don't want to bash any other mountains out there, but some got in a little over their heads and didn't really have a plan for their "park." Not knowing where you are going, or better yet, where you NEED to go to remain competitive, is a recipe for disaster. With that said, I think that with a collective effort from future users and pros like Gravity Logic a park with potential could be in the works.

  17. #17
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    Sign me up! It is also good to go to different places just to change it up. I always rotate my trails when i ride xc.

    Thanks.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by be350ka
    I agree 100%.

    When the time comes I think the land manager needs to get in touch with the likes of Gravity Logic to get input from the experts. This way the mountain knows exactly where they stand and what to expect from this venture. I have no doubt that it can be done, but doing it properly from the beginning is essential.

    I don't want to bash any other mountains out there, but some got in a little over their heads and didn't really have a plan for their "park." Not knowing where you are going, or better yet, where you NEED to go to remain competitive, is a recipe for disaster. With that said, I think that with a collective effort from future users and pros like Gravity Logic a park with potential could be in the works.
    Gravity Logic, that's perfect - exactly the kind of info I was hoping to be able to provide. You're thinking exactly how I am Nate. Knowing that there is a company out there that provides the right services needed to get a park like this off the ground is vastly important.
    Keep it comin'.

  19. #19
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    I'm in...and this includes a couple others for the trip as well. I'm not big air or anything, but I'm looking to learn and I put my time in Eastern Pa, so adding variety to the great trails out there would be great for those multi-day trips.

  20. #20
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    definitely interested!!!

    My two buds and I would be tempted to buy season passes, diablo is just a little too far, but if it was maybe an hour closer, it would make a big difference. I also know of many others in the Bloomsburg area that would be interested!
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

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    Lets here some more details... Any way you could give us a hint on which resort? I've been snowboarding in the Poconos for ages and always wished a couple, certain resorts would open up to bikes, due to there terrain. So...? Might also get some more raised hands... Also might this mean some PA DH races...?

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    And don't forget Dual slalom too!
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd@gretnabikes
    Lets here some more details... Any way you could give us a hint on which resort? I've been snowboarding in the Poconos for ages and always wished a couple, certain resorts would open up to bikes, due to there terrain. So...? Might also get some more raised hands... Also might this mean some PA DH races...?
    Ahh, it took a while but I knew this question would come up. I hear what your saying about terrain preferences on certain mountains Todd. I did a little homework though and whether or not this mountain would be the pick of the litter terrain-wise is kind of mute right now. As it stands, they are the only ones I have found that are currently open-minded to the idea of letting bikes use their lifts at all. I'm sure that once one mountain builds a park, most will follow suit. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that it's not a good mountain for a park, because it think it'll be great. Don't worry, I will hopefully be able to give some more details soon. I want to talk with the owner again before I let out any specifics. I don't want this to go from possible reality to just a passing rumor.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd@gretnabikes
    Lets here some more details... Any way you could give us a hint on which resort? I've been snowboarding in the Poconos for ages and always wished a couple, certain resorts would open up to bikes, due to there terrain. So...? Might also get some more raised hands... Also might this mean some PA DH races...?
    Ones perfect for the Rothrocker?


  25. #25
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    Good job!

    To all:

    We have spoke with Mr. Carlson at Sno Moutain and he is open to doing it! They have lot's of projects in the pipeline already but it has been considered!

    LC

  26. #26
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    Count Me In!!

    I would absolutely be interested in a high quality park that has put some time into designing and creating a riding experience that would rival or better a place like Diablo.

    If we had a place like that around here, I know I would be in line to buy a season pass!

    I hope this is a serious consideration!! I am already looking forward to it!!!
    " I don't care who you are...... that's fun...."

  27. #27
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    I am in! I also know of at least 6 other guys who would by season passes. Driving to the Poconos from Lancaster, is far better than driving to mt. creek and then driving home tired and battered.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEPMTBA
    To all:

    We have spoke with Mr. Carlson at Sno Moutain and he is open to doing it! They have lot's of projects in the pipeline already but it has been considered!

    LC
    SWEEET!! Looks like we may have two mountains with lift access parks in the near future people! Sno Mountain is a kick a$$ mountain for a park considering it's the largest of the Pocono resorts. Now I'm really getting psyched!

  29. #29
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    Good job!

    To all:

    Please let me say if you all want something send emails to the ski areas. I have done so as have others in our area. Emailing is simple and the first step to success. If the ski area receives input from us they will see it is a good business venture. They see their world in dollars and money talks!
    If you are interested in step two go to the ski area ask nicely for an appointment to talk with a manager or the person in charge of overall affairs at the ski area.
    Don't sit back and view these message boards and assume it will just happen...

    Thanks for time... now type an email to them... LOL!



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    Sounds awesome! Its about time the USA got it self in gear for modern mountain biking! I will definatly ride there as well I need more DH riding spots!

  31. #31
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    It might be a good Idea to X-Post this in the NY, NJ, VA, MD, OH, WV forums to get a wider sample. That way you can show the owner the number of people that are willing to travel to the new park.

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    get off the computer and go get some wine and cheese!

    ray's fell through and i spent the day opening more corridor at wies. i would gladly have others doing the work for me on a much larger mountain even if it is a couple hours away. that's a deal of an easier trip than diablo is. makes a day trip reasonable for a guy like me who can't get days on end off from work.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by be350ka
    It might be a good Idea to X-Post this in the NY, NJ, VA, MD, OH, WV forums to get a wider sample. That way you can show the owner the number of people that are willing to travel to the new park.
    Already did all of them execpt NY. Don't know why that one slipped my mind. I'll do it now, thanks Nate.

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    id go.

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    This is great news for PA.

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    That would be AMAZING!!!!!!

  37. #37
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    I'll tell you, the guys I ride with had season passes to Diablo and still never managed to get there enough to break even. During the off season it's easy to imagine heading up there weekly, but after a month of 4 hours rides for daytrips, speeding tickets,overtime, etc.., the poconos begin to look very attractive (they always have been). We all live in the Lehigh Valley, and I've got a place at Wallenpaupac -- I'm actually suprised it has taken this long. Rode Killington like 12 or 13 years ago...

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    It could be great, but you ought to develop a business plan and budget everything extensively. Trail building, especially freeride trail building, can be expensive with experienced builders, and operating the lifts and paying for summer insurance isn't cheap either while developing a healthy ridership that can support the park. A freeride park is not something the mountain will break even on in their first or second year. They have to be willing to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into building and operating the park before it will reach the point where it turns a profit.

    Diablo and Plattekill are ahead of the curve because they've been doing it for so many years now, and were able to start small with much lower investment and grow organically to where they are now, adding a few more trails and stunts each year. But building a place like Highland, from scratch, in two years, cost a couple million dollars. They're still a long way from breaking even, but luckily they've got a smart businessman at the helm who's funding it himself and is willing to operate the mountain at a loss for several years knowing that they'll get to the point where they're profitable 4-5 years down the road.

    Understand that any new bike park would be entering the market in these current conditions, and would be judged against these other mountains that have been at it longer (Diablo, Platty) and have deeper pockets and dedicated management (Highland).

    It's obviously still a great idea, and opening up new venues definitely helps the sport grow. But it's better to be upfront about the costs involved in doing it right...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    Ones perfect for the Rothrocker?


    Perfect for the Panzer...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbogner
    It could be great, but you ought to develop a business plan and budget everything extensively. Trail building, especially freeride trail building, can be expensive with experienced builders, and operating the lifts and paying for summer insurance isn't cheap either while developing a healthy ridership that can support the park. A freeride park is not something the mountain will break even on in their first or second year. They have to be willing to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into building and operating the park before it will reach the point where it turns a profit.

    Diablo and Plattekill are ahead of the curve because they've been doing it for so many years now, and were able to start small with much lower investment and grow organically to where they are now, adding a few more trails and stunts each year. But building a place like Highland, from scratch, in two years, cost a couple million dollars. They're still a long way from breaking even, but luckily they've got a smart businessman at the helm who's funding it himself and is willing to operate the mountain at a loss for several years knowing that they'll get to the point where they're profitable 4-5 years down the road.

    Understand that any new bike park would be entering the market in these current conditions, and would be judged against these other mountains that have been at it longer (Diablo, Platty) and have deeper pockets and dedicated management (Highland).

    It's obviously still a great idea, and opening up new venues definitely helps the sport grow. But it's better to be upfront about the costs involved in doing it right...
    True. I think any mountain considering this would (or should) understand that something like this is a long term plan, not an immidiate return. I'm sure it was the same way for all the mountains when they built the ski runs. It takes an intial investment with a slow return until they build up a customer base. Same goes with any of these mountains that build hotels. They wouldn't expect for them to be a cash cow instantly, yet they will put out a huge sum of money to get them built, probably lots more than a bike park would cost. I don't think any of this would or should be a real deterent for a smart business person.

  41. #41
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    Sign me UP!
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    Positive Feedback

    GOOD NEWS PEOPLE! I just got off the phone with the owner of the mountain and it looks like everyone's interest has paid off. She has every intention of going forth with putting in a bike park! I know alot of you have been wondering what mounatin it is, sorry for keeping you in supsense, the anwser is Blue Mountain in Palmerton, and it could be as early as this summer. Blue Mtn. is only minutes from Jim Thorpe which is already a mtb biking meca, so this will definetly increase the area's popularity for biking. Between Blue Mtn. and Sno Mtn., park riding is on it's way to PA!

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    This is great news. I live in NC now, but still have tons of family in Stroudsburg and get up twice a year or so. I actually rode Camelback 10 plus years ago on my hardtail Zaskar. Still amazed I lived through it. My best friend and I giggled like school girls the entire time we were there...

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    Quote Originally Posted by the4berbs
    GOOD NEWS PEOPLE! I just got off the phone with the owner of the mountain and it looks like everyone's interest has paid off. She has every intention of going forth with putting in a bike park! I know alot of you have been wondering what mounatin it is, sorry for keeping you in supsense, the anwser is Blue Mountain in Palmerton, and it could be as early as this summer. Blue Mtn. is only minutes from Jim Thorpe which is already a mtb biking meca, so this will definetly increase the area's popularity for biking. Between Blue Mtn. and Sno Mtn., park riding is on it's way to PA!
    Wow that is good news! That was some where I always wished would open up in the summer. They have some really great terrain and a good bit of vertical drop. Not to mention a fast chair lift, if they use the quad. Keep us informed...!

  45. #45
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    I've linked this thread to the Valley Mountain Bikers site, our local Lehigh valley site. Some positive responces also they want to post the news on pinkbike. Whatta ya think? This news is huge to us down here.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by joemamad
    I've linked this thread to the Valley Mountain Bikers site, our local Lehigh valley site. Some positive responces also they want to post the news on pinkbike. Whatta ya think? This news is huge to us down here.
    Sounds great, post it up. Lets get the news out.

  47. #47
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    Wow!

    That is really great news...I am only 25 minutes from Blue!

    VERYcool!

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    Action Wheels Racing

    I know a dozen to two dozen riders who are in. This could be huge for our sport. I know even more people who would ride DH/Freeride if they had a place to go. This would justify their reason for buying a large travel bike.

  49. #49
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    Good job!

    This is Great News!

    Thanks to the owner's & staff at Blue Mountain for planning this great new venue!



    LC

  50. #50
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    Woo hoo!!! when im home in july i'll have 2 mtns to shred at not just 1!!!

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