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  1. #1
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    Nockamixon changes - what is going on????

    I don't understand what is going on with the trails at Nock. I have great respect for the people that have gone to great lengths to address the drainage of the trail so we can ride sooner after a rain. What I don't understand is the clearing of trees and berming of corners and adding little jumps. The allure of east coast riding is the naturally tight, twisty, rocky, rooty, tree-lined trails. However, clearing trees and smoothing trails so it's faster seems out of place. Anyone else agree with me?

  2. #2
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    agreed. Thankfully, Bemont is nearer to me and will likely never change. Keep it tight, keep it hard.
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  3. #3
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    It's not like they are doing it to the entire trail.
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  4. #4
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    Twisty don't go to Trex.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABud View Post
    Twisty don't go to Trex.


    Seriously though, Nox is like the ultimate trail-for-everyone. You can take your 4 year old riding there, you can take your spouse who barely rides, or you can shred it balls out and up the challenge. I don't think it was ever meant to be a classic PA trail, to me it is like a massive playground with different skills challenges scattered about.

    To be fair, I don't think I could ever criticize Nox though. Its mostly a small core group of the same people laboring there for years. With that much dedication they can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned, I'm thankful it exists in any form.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    It's not like they are doing it to the entire trail.

    Nock is my local trail, but I've been traveling and haven't gone as much as I'd like this summer, but it seems every time I go someone's put a rock in a washout so it's easier to ride, cut down a tree so it's not so twisty, filled in a huge root system so it's not so hard to clear. It just seems that it's becoming too user friendly a place to ride, when Nock was already one of the smoothest and easiest trails around. Other than some poor drainage areas, Nock was just fine the way it was and I don't see any benefit gained by the hours and $$$ spent recently.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABud View Post
    Twisty don't go to Trex.
    What's Trex? Should I assume it's been over built as well?

  8. #8
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    Trex=Trexler out by the Lehigh Valley Zoo. It mostly flow kinda trail's, smooth, fast at spot's, berms and rollers/jumps. I used to ride it a lot cause its close but anymore I'd rather drive further and hit something different.
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  9. #9
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    I made a remark the other day that "flow is boring" and i was told i was crazy. I meant it, though
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    I made a remark the other day that "flow is boring" and i was told i was crazy. I meant it, though
    I'm with you on that. There's a time for flow, but if I go to a park to ride I would rather get some challenge within reason. Mix is the best though to get a break from the intensity.

    Maybe they are trying to open up a little more beginner level access? If a beginner was to look at Nox vs South mountain(or similar), which would they be more likely to practice in on?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post


    Seriously though, Nox is like the ultimate trail-for-everyone. You can take your 4 year old riding there, you can take your spouse who barely rides, or you can shred it balls out and up the challenge. I don't think it was ever meant to be a classic PA trail, to me it is like a massive playground with different skills challenges scattered about.

    To be fair, I don't think I could ever criticize Nox though. Its mostly a small core group of the same people laboring there for years. With that much dedication they can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned, I'm thankful it exists in any form.
    This. 100% spot on.

    I have not found Nox to have gotten any easier. There is nothing technical about Nox, never was and I don't think they can make it any easier. Nox is a fantastic system to get people into ridding. I see people there with cheap walmart bikes and Pivot Mach 6's and Turner Czars. And everybody is having fun. And I get the feeling from the people doing trail work, that they like the fact that some guy on a walmart bike can come and have fun - more than the guy on the Czar...

    I personally hated Nox when it first opened. Found it boring and tedious. I have learned to like it and see it for what it is - a fast, flat ride. One that I am glad to have. My 13 year old son and I do two loops and head to Moo for a burger and oh wow cow for ice-cream. My favorite rides bar none. If I want something a little more technical I will head to Stover - which is only 10 minutes away but god bless those guys who did the trail work for Nox (only 2 guys I think).
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  12. #12
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    Yeah, Nox isn't my thing. Rode it once and wasn't impressed at all with the trails. Felt like they crammed 23452934985 turns, zero climbing, zero tech, and 10 miles of trail into a quarter acre lot. But it is awesome to have a beginner friendly trail in the area. So I am glad it's there.

    And it's obvious the people who work on it are dedicated though, which is awesome.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantic View Post
    I made a remark the other day that "flow is boring" and i was told i was crazy. I meant it, though
    I wouldn't say it's boring but I know what you mean. All last summer, I had a serious addiction to Trexler. It was like my own personal Raystown. I barely went anywhere else, aside from Nox like once.

    But then after a while, I rode Bear Creek, and was like "holy ****" because I lost a lot of my muscles that I use on technical stuff. All the fun I had on the flow trail had sort of pussified me. So like all this year I've been at places like Bear Creek, Salisbury, SMB, etc.

    Flow is fun... in moderation.

    The thing about Trex though- given the terrain and soil, it is perfect for a flow trail. Like, to make it a techy trail you'd have to have nearly all man made features. There are a few big rocks here and there but mostly it's the crushed shale stuff. And the trails that are there, they had to carve them out of an inhospitable mass of autumn olive, as abud can attest to. Much machinery involved.

    Then with Nox, it's all flat land alongside a lake. How does one propose to make it techy? Lots of twists and turns. Making use of what elevation changes they have. This is what lends it well to beginners but also allowing advanced riders to hone their carving and agility skills by upping the speed.

    So under the Valley Mountain Bikers umbrella, when you combine those with Salisbury which is more rocky and technical, you have three trails that are very different and compliment each other nicely.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    ...So like all this year I've been at places like Bear Creek, Salisbury, SMB, etc.

    Flow is fun... in moderation.
    This.

    OP, If you're looking for east coast tech, there are certainly other options than Nox. No need to knock the extremely hard work of a dedicated group of dudes who are doing awesome work with what they have. The hours the spend working on the trails away from their families/careers/time they could be out riding is crazy. I also prefer tech to flow. But, after meeting one of the core builders of Nox, I am totally impressed with the work he does and I wouldn't complain about anything he does to the trails. His trail, his vision imo. Hell, I'm grateful we have dudes who make awesome trails like Nox and others possible. *steps off soapbox*

    That said, there are some seriously sweet trails in the Valley. SMB/SME, Sals, Bear Creek, etc. Or venture into Jersey. Allamuchy or Ringwood or Jungle Habitat would make a nice little trip and fulfill your need for tech. You might never want to look at a rock again after hitting the Sourlands lol!

  15. #15
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    I think the OP was trolling. Does the OP really feel that every trail system should be made more gnarly just for his superior riding ability? Are you that fabulous? Griping about Nox being sanitized is like being upset that O'douls doesn't give you a buzz.

    Vesp and XJaredX had it right: "There is nothing technical about Nox, never was and I don't think they can make it any easier. Nox is a fantastic system to get people into ridding. I see people there with cheap walmart bikes and Pivot Mach 6's and Turner Czars. And everybody is having fun."

    I had the luck to hit it a couple times after work when I was out that way. Did two loops, got a nice sweat going...it sure beat the crap out of not riding and trying to rail the bermed turns as fast as possible made it fun. At about 6pm, the lot was getting packed and everybody seemed psyched, which is what its all about.
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  16. #16
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    Dont forget you can go to Moon, Lackawana, Merli and Moosic if your looking for more technical stuff.


    I like Nox personally though.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    I think the OP was trolling. Does the OP really feel that every trail system should be made more gnarly just for his superior riding ability? Are you that fabulous? Griping about Nox being sanitized is like being upset that O'douls doesn't give you a buzz.

    Vesp and XJaredX had it right: "There is nothing technical about Nox, never was and I don't think they can make it any easier. Nox is a fantastic system to get people into ridding. I see people there with cheap walmart bikes and Pivot Mach 6's and Turner Czars. And everybody is having fun."

    I had the luck to hit it a couple times after work when I was out that way. Did two loops, got a nice sweat going...it sure beat the crap out of not riding and trying to rail the bermed turns as fast as possible made it fun. At about 6pm, the lot was getting packed and everybody seemed psyched, which is what its all about.
    I am not a troll. I don't think everyone is reading my post(s). I never said Nock was techy, I said it was one of the easiest trails around to start with, but that I'm not sure why they are making it easier. I'm 100% fine with Wally World bikes and kids on any trail to keep the love of the sport going. I also said that I appreciate the time and energy and $$$ spent on trail upkeep, but I question some of the more recent additions.

    I personally have the opposite complaint about my other local trail, High Rocks. I wish someone (I don't) had the time to do the work that the Nock build crew have done to Nock on High Rocks as it seems to get worse and worse every year.

    The general purpose of my tread was to see if anyone else agreed with me that the building is getting a little overboard at Nock. I still love and ride it more than any other trail around - and I ride real f*&king fast, so keep up!

  18. #18
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    Look Twistagrip - you can dress it up all you want with niceties but you're still taking a shot at the trail system, by implication the people who ride and enjoy it, and pushing it down to try and make yourself feel baller as a rider.

    When you say "I don't think everyone is reading my posts"... guess what? Its you not them, its you. But you can't admit its you because you have no self awareness that you're kind of a douche, as also proved by this gem of a comment you made: "and I ride real f*&king fast, so keep up!"

    And don't back off if your going to start a rant thread with your last two paragraphs of "I wasn't trying to say that, I just want to see who agrees with me." Be a Man for f#ck sake.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    Look Twistagrip - you can dress it up all you want with niceties but you're still taking a shot at the trail system, by implication the people who ride and enjoy it, and pushing it down to try and make yourself feel baller as a rider.

    When you say "I don't think everyone is reading my posts"... guess what? Its you not them, its you. But you can't admit its you because you have no self awareness that you're kind of a douche, as also proved by this gem of a comment you made: "and I ride real f*&king fast, so keep up!"

    And don't back off if your going to start a rant thread with your last two paragraphs of "I wasn't trying to say that, I just want to see who agrees with me." Be a Man for f#ck sake.
    WOW! Good interpretation of my posts - and a classy response (including poor grammar). Thanks

  20. #20
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    Soooo I rode Nox today after not having been there since like last October, and I'm unsure what all the hubub is about... I found more rollers to pump thru, and a few extra berms in the corners- I'm sorry, berms are bad how? I can carry more speed now and pump out of them. I was far from bored, if I didn't pay attention and set up a line right, I'd get a shoulder into a tree. Far from a sanitized trail.

  21. #21
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    lol most people who like tech would not know how to ride a flow trail well anyways, and most people who like tech actually do not ride tech all that fast either...


  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistagrip View Post
    I wish someone (I don't) had the time to do the work...
    Here in lies the problem. I suggest as CarolinaPanthers recommends a trip to Sourlands if you like a little blood with your rocks. Or perhaps step up and put a little work in at High Rocks. No maintenance is worse then too much. Or pay someone for that what you do not have the time to do.

    I'm personally sick of critics who think trail work is somebody else's job.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by justriding View Post
    "and I ride real f*&king fast, so keep up!"

    \
    Riders who are fast and know how to ride, don't have to tell anyone they're fast...
    Just sayin'.

    I have had a bit of epiphany lately...I prefer riding rocky technical stuff, and go to Brandywine and French Creek for it. Recently, however, I have been having a blast at Marsh Creek...more like Nox, with a little elevation. Point is, mixing it up is a good thing. It has been dry, and crazy fast. Ripping through there has been a blast and made me a bit more open minded on what trails can be fun. The only caveat is that you need to be more aware of other users.

  24. #24
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    I was at Nockamixon last week and I can only imagine that you're talking about the first part of Cold Spot that you hit from the entry trail. Most of the berms at Nox have been there since they started it. My impression is that that work was done more for drainage reasons than for making anything easy or flowy. I don't think the bumps that you refer to as jumps are even jumps. I think they're more than likely some kind of waterbar. I agree with the other posters who say that it is what it is. I like a balance as well but I would say that any work that is done for drainage reasons should be without question. I completely disagree with the idea that a trail should be left to erode just so it becomes more techy or less people can ride it, especially a trail that is at least partly meant to be used as a gateway drug. And for what it's worth, I'm currently trying to teach my girlfriend how to ride. I've only gotten her to White Clay and Trex and the Trex didn't go well. She still has a lot of fear in going over obstacles so, although we live 20 minutes from Nox, I don't think I can take her there yet. Again, the crew at Nox have done a great job.

  25. #25
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    We mostly ride in mtn top and rocky areas, when we do hit Nox it's like a breath of fresh air! It's nice to go fast ( prolly not as fast as you ) lol but I do enjoy it. Keep up the good work fellas
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