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Thread: My first rant

  1. #1
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    My first rant

    I was wa just wondering! before I go into this and create the impression that I am fast or even a strong rider, I'm not fast or strong looks are decieving.

    Saturday while I was out riding (huffing and puffing) I found my self stopping and yeilding to dogs, I must have counted 5 on the day but it became an anoyance especially when I found a sweet spot and have it interruped by the pooch that wont listen to its owner. Does the leashe law still exist or does it not apply to the wiss?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkeith
    I was wa just wondering! before I go into this and create the impression that I am fast or even a strong rider, I'm not fast or strong looks are decieving.

    Saturday while I was out riding (huffing and puffing) I found my self stopping and yeilding to dogs, I must have counted 5 on the day but it became an anoyance especially when I found a sweet spot and have it interruped by the pooch that wont listen to its owner. Does the leashe law still exist or does it not apply to the wiss?
    Hey Keith,

    There were a lot of dogs out on saturday. There is a leash law (or, rule anyway) in all of Fairmount Park. But, as a dog owner who almost always violates leash laws in county and state parks, I can't really be too critical of people walking their dogs off-leash.

    That said, I don't take my dog hiking or biking @ Wissahickon precisely because the trails are just too crowded to let her run off-leash and, frankly, walking her there on a leash just doesn't interest me. If I'm at wissahickon, I'd rather be riding - and there are other, more 'dog-friendly' places I could go if I wanted to take her out with me.

    Anyhow, I can appreciate your frustration at having to stop or slow down in all the wrong places - we experienced the same thing that afternoon. Lots of people out & about.

    Was good to see you out there again.

    -Joe
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    good too see you aswell. and that will be my last complaint of the year

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    same thing happened to me. also, i would un-necessarily yield to trail runners and dog owners when there was plenty of room out of kindness, but no-one ever did it back. id think of all people the slower moving people who can easily stop and stand would yield before the riders.
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  5. #5
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    dog shyte is much worse

    there should be a dog shyte law out at wissa too
    In center city its a $200 fine. The same should apply there too. I will always rant about dog shyte in the park. stoopid mofo's.
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    agreed. nothing worse that not being sure whats flying back in your face until too late, or when your changing a busted tube.

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    Your panties are showing.

    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    there should be a dog shyte law out at wissa too
    In center city its a $200 fine. The same should apply there too. I will always rant about dog shyte in the park. stoopid mofo's.
    [SIZE="2"][/SIZE]"mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

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    I love the stupid look the dog owner gives you while the moron calls fluffy to come (while you are stopped on the section of downhill you just worked your ass off to enjoy cranking down) and fluffy ignores the owner.

    You guys are too kind yielding to them; I've taken to squaring up on them, cranking harder and seeing how fast the dog can get out of the way. If you unclip at the right moment, you can get a nice polo effect with you foot to their chops.

    I can't understand the disconnect: it's dangerous for the dog to be off a leash; it's dangerous for me, the rider; and ultimately, if I am able to get up after the dog wipes me out, dangerous for the owner.

    How's that for a rant.

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    the point has definately taken hold LOL

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    You know - I feel better - that was kind of cathartic. Next time I'll pack some biscuits for the little bastards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justriding
    I can't understand the disconnect: it's dangerous for the dog to be off a leash; it's dangerous for me, the rider; and ultimately, if I am able to get up after the dog wipes me out, dangerous for the owner.

    How's that for a rant.

    Glad you feel better now, but this is BS. 99% of the time it's only dangerous for you, the dog, & the owner if you are riding out of control. Dogs or no dogs, there's no excuse for bombing around blind corners in Wissahickon, especially when the trails are tight & crowded. The closest I've ever come to serious injury in 15 yrs at wissahickon has come in the form of racer-boys hauling ass around corners while I was climbing. Give me a meandering mutt to contend with over 200 lbs of "I own the trail" d!ckhead & his bike any day.

    I like haulin' ass as much as anybody, but there's a time and a place for it. Wiss on a saturday or sunday, generally, ain't that place.

    [/counter-rant]
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    You are just full of assumptions aren't you. Next time I see you out there, or maybe not because I am bombing around a blind corner, I'll be sure to throw and elbow. 15 years of riding back there just means your more brittle.

    I am a very courteous rider and I like dogs very much, even had a couple growing up. Btw, I was using some over the top ranting to make a point (can't say I have ever actually kicked a dog) that was missed on your closed dog loving mind; dogs bite. Wiss has a large number of pit bulls walking off the leash back there - and before you get off the point by defending pit bulls - or any dog for that matter. It is dangerous whether you are riding, running, walking with your kid, whatever; that is what a leash law is for.

    Why does everyone who has a dog think that everyone else likes them. It's like someone else's kid; it's only cute to you, not everybody else.

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    some of my buddies ride with thier dogs unleashed. i think its cool. and we rip. ive had a dog follow me for a quarter mile down forbidden drive. if thier not trained leash'um.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justriding
    You are just full of assumptions aren't you. Next time I see you out there, or maybe not because I am bombing around a blind corner, I'll be sure to throw and elbow. 15 years of riding back there just means your more brittle.
    Awesome. Go for it!

    Quote Originally Posted by justriding

    I am a very courteous rider and I like dogs very much, even had a couple growing up. Btw, I was using some over the top ranting to make a point (can't say I have ever actually kicked a dog) that was missed on your closed dog loving mind
    Your 'over the top' ranting wasn't the least bit lost on me, which is why I didn't comment on the the 'dog polo' bit.


    Quote Originally Posted by justriding
    ; dogs bite. Wiss has a large number of pit bulls walking off the leash back there - and before you get off the point by defending pit bulls - or any dog for that matter. It is dangerous whether you are riding, running, walking with your kid, whatever; that is what a leash law is for.

    Why does everyone who has a dog think that everyone else likes them. It's like someone else's kid; it's only cute to you, not everybody else.
    My point is that it doesn't matter whether somebody around the next corner has a dog or not, on leash or not. How many little kids do you see walking on the trail? Should they be 'leashed' too? It's your responsibility to be able to stop safely without crashing into other trail users. Period. Horses, dogs, kids, riders...everybody has a right to be there and It's nobody's responsibility to be a f%&^*ing psychic and know you're coming toward them from around the next bend. Sorry if you don't understand that.
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    Because we SHOULD, AND we HAVE TO !

    Hey Keith, How are you? Number 1. We should brake for dogs because they don't know where we are headed, which line we should take down a given section, or even know enough to get out of our way. We should treat dogs like little children...unpredictable and unreasoned. THE LAST thing I want to do on one of my rides is hurt a dog or even worse, a child. I'm not saying this because I've worked in veterinary medicine for the last 19 years, but because we, as "responsible trail users" SHOULD and HAVE to yeild the trail to these creatures. If a horse(and rider) tramples poor little Fido into "trail pizza", they will blame the dumb horse and not the rider. The "horse was frightened or out of control". If you or I run over Fido with ours bikes, all hell will break loose. It would make the 6 pm news and the all newpapers.
    Number 2. I will agree that there are many irresponsible pet owners that do not follow the rules and allow their dogs to run off leash. AND, there are some dogs that do bite and terrorize other pets(and people) while they are roaming off leash. I've been bitten by a dog while riding. I blame the dog AND the owner. I can pretty much guarantee that for every single well-trained and in control dog that answers to it's owner's call "to heal" to allow someone to go by, there are 20 others that only listen to their owner's part of the time, and one or two that are completely on their own running amuck and never come when called(but somehow they get them back in time to put them into the car, just to bring them back another day to do the same thing).
    So, what do we do? Do we start macing out of control dogs or dogs that are not on a leash on the trail? NO. Do we run over loose dogs and children on the trail? NO! Do we start macing the owners of the out of control dogs on the trail? Tempting, but NO. We do the right thing. We yeild the trail to other trail users so we HAVE TRAILS TO RIDE ON ! WE act as responsible trail users, eventhough we might be the only ones, because that is the only thing we can do to keep riding in places like Wissahickon. We often find ourselves(mountainbikers) as GUESTS on trails that WE have built and maintained ourselves(mountainbikers).

    I know that does't help, but it sure made me feel better! lol

    Let me know if you want to take a trip south for some sweet singletrack riding? One of the folks that lives near Middle Run measured 6" of rain over the last 48 hours on his rain gauge. Given that, the trails should be ridable by...July. -Bob(the other Bob)
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    Man, you keep making this assumption that I am riding out of control. And where did I ever say they never had a right to be out there - you're so fired up, you're not reading, just responding. I am not out to wreck anyones fun. This is America. You should be able to do pretty much whatever you want, so long as you don't infringe on anybody else's fun (with your Jefferson quote, you should be all about that).

    It's the dog owner's responsibility to keep their mutt under control; not nipping at my heals or sniffing my leg as I wait for them to pass or go by slow; or shitting in the middle of the trail for that matter. What about on sections where there is plenty of sight distance and they have two or three dogs running wild (see Chestnut Hill side of trails for examples)? - you're advocating that it is my burden to interupt my ride to accomodate them, when I am not breaking any rules. If they have them on a leash, the dog can be controlled and both rider and dog can pass with no problem/conflict. And if the owner has them under voice control, just as good. But 99% of the dog walkers back there let em run wild.

    As for the little kid, if he is dumb enough to jump into my spinning feet, then -yeah he should be on a leash too.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by justriding
    Man, you keep making this assumption that I am riding out of control. And where did I ever say they never had a right to be out there - you're so fired up, you're not reading, just responding. I am not out to wreck anyones fun. This is America. You should be able to do pretty much whatever you want, so long as you don't infringe on anybody else's fun (with your Jefferson quote, you should be all about that).
    I never assumed anything. You said 'it's dangerous for the dog, it's dangerous for you. . .and the owner' [sic]. I say there's no good reason for anyone or anything to be 'in danger' of collision on the trail. If you're in control, there is no 'danger' for anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by justriding
    What about on sections where there is plenty of sight distance and they have two or three dogs running wild (see Chestnut Hill side of trails for examples)? - you're advocating that it is my burden to interupt my ride to accomodate them, when I am not breaking any rules.
    Except for these?

    http://www.fairmountpark.org/ServicesRulesAndRegs.asp

    "Trail Use
    Seven (7) miles per hour is the fastest you are allowed to go on Park trails. Please do not drive any faster.
    Joggers - pedestrians have the right-of-way except during sanctioned and/or organized running races.
    Bicyclists - all other trail users have the right-of-way, except during sanctioned bicycle races. Bicycling is allowed on all roads within the Park, except as posted on Kelly Drive and Martin Luther King Drive (West River Drive)."

    We all break the 7 mph rule, but playing ignorant doesn't make it cease to exist, and if you plow into a dog/hiker/horse doing 30 mph - the burden is entirely on you.

    If you can't live with that 'burden', there are plenty of places where you can let your inner shredder loose (Bear Creek, Diablo, Mt. Snow, etc.
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    i think its not a matter of trail manners on my be half but as citizens we are to be sure that we do not trample on each others pursuit to happiness within the guidelines of the law. that said, their is a stand out reason for a leash law to maintain control of your dog or cat while in public. on the same token the wiss limits bike speed to 7mph this ensure that a rider (based on skill) has time to react to other people in the trail. with that in mind yielding goes without saying but the owner of the dog that wont listen is interrupting the happiness of the 7mph rider ( in my case 3.5mph).

    i know we all break the rules and sometime we trample over the rights of others. and i felt like i was wronged on Saturday so a ranted and now i feel better.

    thanks all for your input.

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    yup, good thread on why i like living where i do. sadly tho, idiots and inbreeders keep on mating so the same problems will migrate to where i live all too soon.

    sorry fellas, i hear wyoming is nice and... sparse. yeah. sparse, that's it.

  20. #20
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    Well said..but I am still buying mace for Stick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justriding
    Well said..but I am still buying mace for Stick.
    [SIZE="2"][/SIZE]"mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

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    Interesting thread

    Lots of good points made by many, with the occasional peppering of internet bravado. What else could you ask for in a thread?

    It's a multi-use trail, and every user-cyclists, hikers, equestrians, etc. needs to be courteous. That includes dog owners who don't have their animals on a leash, regardless of whether they are walking their dog, or riding with it.

    End of mini-rant

    Bob
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    hmmmm...interesting comments

    During the rush of riding out at wissa I have probably broken all of these rules at some stage.
    However I do feel that dog owners abuse/take advantage of the "Bicyclists - all other trail users have the right-of-way, except during sanctioned bicycle races" rule whether they know about it or not.

    Im not taking sides but I do believe its give and take, sometimes more take for us mountain bikers but we should be better than these mofo's and take it on the chin.

    I too have felt like getting of my bike and flattening the owner (more than once too) with out of control dogs. remember its not the dogs fault

    However as someone already wrote, the moment that one of us gets off of our bike and lays out an irresponsible dog owner, it will be showered all over the media and that will be the end of our decent reputation we have accumulated after so many years of hard work (and riding) in parks like wissa.

    BTW justriding, mace wont work on stick- get him to drink a coors instead
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by electric mustard
    BTW justriding, mace wont work on stick- get him to drink a coors instead
    Oh, the horror!



    FWIW, I was not trying to defend people breaking the leash law at Wiss - I just won't condemn every single one of them for it (any more than I'd condemn you for going faster than 7 mph). To do so would make me a hypocrite. As I said before, I won't take my dog to Wissahickon because I don't want to be 'one of those damned dog people' who's 'ruining somebody else's fun' and putting my dog 'in danger'.

    Things kind of got off-topic, and maybe my point was lost on some... Basically, I was trying to get at the fact that frequent slowing/stopping/yielding/whatever comes with the territory at Wissahickon (and any other park in such close proximity to a major metro area). Keith is certainly well within his right to vent, but crowded sunny days in the valley are nothing new, so the encounters with other users (4-legged or 2-) should come as little surprise.
    [SIZE="2"][/SIZE]"mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

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    i try my hardest not to stop for off leash dogs... someone has to teach them to get the f- out the way if the owner insits on walking the dog with no leash (and no training).

    i have never hit a dog but i have gotten real close to make a point to the dog (but mostly to the owner) to keep the hell out da way.

    i have no problems with dogs off leash, but they better be trained to behave.

    this is the number one problem at the wiss according to park surveys FOW did as part of the sustainable trails initiative BTW (even worse then the mountainbike problem apparently we're #2).

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