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  1. #1
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    Jacobsburg question

    Does anyone know what the heck is going on at Jacobsburg State Park? They are putting cinders over some very nice trails, covering the roots and rocks in parts. What is most frustrating is the fact that these areas have practically no erosion! There was another huge pile of cinders waiting to be put down when I rode tonight.

    Anyone know what is going on here?

    TIA
    "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Albert Einstein

  2. #2
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    That's the Jacobsburg version of trial maintanence. They did that about 7 or 8 years ago when I was in college at Lafayette. There were some cool trials I used to ride out there and slowly the cindered them all and ruined everything.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndbike
    That's the Jacobsburg version of trial maintanence. They did that about 7 or 8 years ago when I was in college at Lafayette. There were some cool trials I used to ride out there and slowly the cindered them all and ruined everything.
    Who can I complain to? I am not one to complain, but the trails they are cindering are off the main trail and are **not** eroding......in fact, few people really ride this section. I ride there frequently, so I know the spots which are better than others. The section of trail they are doing would be the absolute last I would cinder.

    There aren't a whole lot of rocky/rooty sections there, I would hate to think we would lose them.

    TIA
    "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Albert Einstein

  4. #4
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    I don't know. When I lived out there I was a college student and I had way too many other things to do than get involved in trail advocacy. I was lucky I even had time to ride. Based on the luck some guys down this way have had with Swatara State Park, I would suggest finding a club in the area that is involved in trail advocacy and go to the park office to ask who you can speak to about the trail maintanence program for the park. Maybe they will be willing to hear you out and let you get involved. I would read some of the "trail opening" posts here and contact someone from one of those posts that you feel might be able to give you some tips. Good luck!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndbike
    I don't know. When I lived out there I was a college student and I had way too many other things to do than get involved in trail advocacy. I was lucky I even had time to ride. Based on the luck some guys down this way have had with Swatara State Park, I would suggest finding a club in the area that is involved in trail advocacy and go to the park office to ask who you can speak to about the trail maintanence program for the park. Maybe they will be willing to hear you out and let you get involved. I would read some of the "trail opening" posts here and contact someone from one of those posts that you feel might be able to give you some tips. Good luck!

    Thanks.....I may contact someone from the Valley Mountain Bikers to see if theyr are the ones who do the maintenance. But regardless, who from the State Park is allowing this to go forward in such a way?
    "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Albert Einstein

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianthebiker
    Thanks.....I may contact someone from the Valley Mountain Bikers to see if theyr are the ones who do the maintenance. But regardless, who from the State Park is allowing this to go forward in such a way?
    I would say it is safe to bet that it is not a MTB club that is doing the trail maintanence right now. No MTB club in their right mind would just put down cinders on good trails. It is the Jacobsburg State Park admin that is doing it. They have limited resources and aside from just paving the trails, this is the easiest and cheapest way maintain the trail other than doing nothing at all. I would go do the Park Office and ask to speak to whoever makes the land management decisions for the park. It is probably the Park Ranger.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianthebiker
    Thanks.....I may contact someone from the Valley Mountain Bikers to see if theyr are the ones who do the maintenance. But regardless, who from the State Park is allowing this to go forward in such a way?
    There's some contact info at the bottom of this page:

    http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/statepar...acobsburg.aspx
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by khill
    There's some contact info at the bottom of this page:

    http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/statepar...acobsburg.aspx
    Thx for the link. I shot them an email and already received a response that the manager is out until Monday and will have my message forward to him then.
    "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Albert Einstein

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ndbike
    I would say it is safe to bet that it is not a MTB club that is doing the trail maintanence right now. No MTB club in their right mind would just put down cinders on good trails. It is the Jacobsburg State Park admin that is doing it. They have limited resources and aside from just paving the trails, this is the easiest and cheapest way maintain the trail other than doing nothing at all. I would go do the Park Office and ask to speak to whoever makes the land management decisions for the park. It is probably the Park Ranger.
    Ahhh, the "Jacobsburg Paving Project"...

    Years ago, maybe around 1996-1998, the Chain Gang was involved with trailwork over there; I was the one who coordinated it. That blue stone (park policy, certainly not our idea)was a major bone of contention... the park people were very attentive and agreeable when I/we would try to talk them out of it, but the blue stone kept showing up -- and we trail maintainers would get blamed for it. Eventually we stopped doing regular trail maintence there (though people will still show up for emergency trailwork, like downed trees or damaged bridges), and the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

    I don't know if any local club does regular maintenance there now, but if there is no regular stewardship, I would suspect that it's because of issues like the Paving Project.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by donxfive
    Ahhh, the "Jacobsburg Paving Project"...

    Years ago, maybe around 1996-1998, the Chain Gang was involved with trailwork over there; I was the one who coordinated it. That blue stone (park policy, certainly not our idea)was a major bone of contention... the park people were very attentive and agreeable when I/we would try to talk them out of it, but the blue stone kept showing up -- and we trail maintainers would get blamed for it. Eventually we stopped doing regular trail maintence there (though people will still show up for emergency trailwork, like downed trees or damaged bridges), and the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

    I don't know if any local club does regular maintenance there now, but if there is no regular stewardship, I would suspect that it's because of issues like the Paving Project.

    The stones are so out of place for a state park, and honestly take away from the natural beauty of the park. What is wrong with natural rocks and roots?

    Some places may need them, **some**. The area I rode last night does not however.

    I am speaking as a biker, but also as a hiker, and an avid nature lover.
    "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances of survival for life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." -Albert Einstein

  11. #11
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    I wondered about that stuff myself last time I rode there, a few weeks ago. If I had to garner a guess, and it's just a guess, it's probably a general response to the major flooding we had ONE time last year, or the horse riders. I agree, it's not needed in some places and there's got to be a better way to control erosion if that's the issue.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by donxfive
    Ahhh, the "Jacobsburg Paving Project"...

    Years ago, maybe around 1996-1998, the Chain Gang was involved with trailwork over there; I was the one who coordinated it. That blue stone (park policy, certainly not our idea)was a major bone of contention... the park people were very attentive and agreeable when I/we would try to talk them out of it, but the blue stone kept showing up -- and we trail maintainers would get blamed for it. Eventually we stopped doing regular trail maintence there (though people will still show up for emergency trailwork, like downed trees or damaged bridges), and the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

    I don't know if any local club does regular maintenance there now, but if there is no regular stewardship, I would suspect that it's because of issues like the Paving Project.
    That would have been the time period when I used to ride there. I was so happy to find a place to mountain bike when I was a freshman at Lafayette. I could even ride there which was great because as a freshman I didn't have a car at college. I'd say in my sophmore year '96/'97 they started the paving project and absolutely ruined all the good trails. Didn't make riding my MTB on the road to get there worth it anymore, so I bought a roadie and just kind of forgot about Jacobsburg. I guess if I had been into cyclocross back then that would have been a good compromise.

  13. #13
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    This might just be standard procedure for parks? Last year we camped up north at Ricketts Glen, the one day we hiked the falls loop. Workers were putting the gravel on the trail. It was small sorta like screenings, and it would get picked up by your shoes and and end up in your other shoe. What a pain in the butt. I asked them why they were doing this... they said it was state grant to improve access to the trails. They also said something about people tripping over roots and rocks. Duh, it's a trail. I think it goes back to people being held accountable for their own actions. This is a pretty hard to access trail and they had hundreds of feet of tubes to move the material down the mtn. Very costly i'm sure. I'd be willing to bet that most of the gravel washed away by now. Tax dollars at work, don't you just love it?

    Mike

  14. #14
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    The blue screenings they have been filling the rutted grass trails at J-burg are one thing but I was there a few weeks ago and they had laid crushed shale like 5' wide along sober's run and a few other places - nasty....

  15. #15
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    i have talked multiple time with the land manager at first learning why, then progressed to why continue, to now noticing a subtle situation. they are widening trails so they can maintian/dump trail screening etc. I know he has experimented with different types and now i see as you did the shale/dirt mix. What i'm most concerned about is the widening. It does take away from the "experience" once seeks when riding there. The most concerning issue is the lack of care for the singletrack in the northern and parts of the upper section. It seems that they are letting them go on purpose.

    As don state the chain gang spent time there, VMB spent time there as well, but club dynamics have changed and it's tough to round up people and have people take the lead. In a world were we're perceived to have high impact, what i see is widening of trails for hiking etc which impacts alot more than we would do on our worst day. There are a few of us that are trying to get our schedules together to meet with him, so time will tell.

    We have to have the attitude of "we are the main group there" with that comes responsibility on our part (hopefully riders are going out of their way to be courteous and have good trail etiquette) and we hope the park takes into consideration our user group and what we're looking for.

  16. #16
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    Joe,
    is the upper you refer to the part where you ride out of main parking lot over that tiny bridge and up to the grassy fields? If so, that has gone by and then they clear cut the upper field by the road and powerlines!?!? So the hawks can catch the baby rabbits easier? The part that I noticed that was still sweet was across the creek and to the left and up that area. They started that blue rock stuff last year along that trail that parralles 33 i think, probably for horses, i guess. Forgive my ignorance of the trail names and routes, I only know how to go ride and which direction I'm going!;-) Pleassssse make a call out if you go to talk or do work, me and Dalton reallly like Jburg, it's good for him and easy on my old bones! hahaha
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  17. #17
    Big Up... Chump
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    Quote Originally Posted by WindWalker
    This might just be standard procedure for parks? Last year we camped up north at Ricketts Glen, the one day we hiked the falls loop. Workers were putting the gravel on the trail. It was small sorta like screenings, and it would get picked up by your shoes and and end up in your other shoe. What a pain in the butt. I asked them why they were doing this... they said it was state grant to improve access to the trails. They also said something about people tripping over roots and rocks. Duh, it's a trail. I think it goes back to people being held accountable for their own actions. This is a pretty hard to access trail and they had hundreds of feet of tubes to move the material down the mtn. Very costly i'm sure. I'd be willing to bet that most of the gravel washed away by now. Tax dollars at work, don't you just love it?

    Mike

    Mike :

    Your close! Look at it like this. Usually Politicion A has a brother in law who owns a quarry with very rare stones. He has the state buy the rare stones at a high price and put miles and miles of it somewhere. Oh ya over here is good place to put these stones!

    Oh crap we should have done 15 studies on where the Rare stones were going to wash down to. Oh well!

  18. #18
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    If you ride the stone powerline trail up, and then start down the other side, you can make a left, go up a short incline and then pick up a sweet singletrack that takes you back down to the old railbed. I generally come ripping down to that left turn so that I can use momentum to carry up the incline. I come around the turn and there is that shale/dirt across the entire trail and 6-8" deep! My life flashed before my eyes as I pictured my front wheel washing out at 20+mph. I was able to scrub off enough speed to keep upright, but that section of trail is ruined.
    There's more of the shale along the creek by the "new" bridge.

    Meanwhile the trail that comes down from 33 where gunner is describing is so eroded/washed out that somebody who isn't expecting it, is going to eat it big time.

    I came across the ranger putting in the small stone one day and politely asked why. He gave me a big dose of attitude so I just kept going. I always thought it was the Chain Gang / Genesis crew that was doing that - thanks Don for clearing that up for me.

    I would be willing to put in a work day there if someone (Joe?) can coordinate it.

  19. #19
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    the trails are along the creek and by the powerline area. I consider that the northern section.

  20. #20
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    Yeah, that stuff is a real pain. I haven't been to Jacobsburg in a week or two so I'll have to head over there tomorrow for a ride to check it out. I've been going to Jordan after work lately since it's a little closer for my riding buddies. They have a little more garbage on the trail at Jordan, but no funny cinders which is nice.

    Anyone going to Jacobsburg tomorrow? I'm looking to go around 11AM...

    - Chris

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