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  1. #1
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    Hunting on Sundays

    ----Posted on bikevmb.com. Please understand, I am not personally against hunting, but I do think it is important that other outdoors pursuits get at least ONE day during hunting season to feel safe in their pursuits. Accidents happen, even when wearing blaze orange. I have mailed my reps, please voice your opinons to yours--------

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    HB 779 SUNDAY HUNTING

    There are 3 million hikers in Pennsylvania, plus 621,000 backpackers. Add the 1.4 million wildlife-watchers who enjoy our forests and you have a pretty good resident constituency of forest-users. That's not even counting the many others who visit our state to hike, go birding and stroll on our thousands of miles of footpaths.

    The economic value of those numbers far outweigh that of our one million hunters.
    But we're not as vocal as the hunters. This has to change, or the woods won't be as quiet anymore on Sundays.

    HB 779 was introduced on March 19.
    It would repeal the prohibition on Sunday Hunting.

    Please contact your legislator by going to http://www.legis.state.pa.us/

    1 ] Type your zip code in the upper-right hand corner
    2 ] It will then provide the name, address, e-mail and phone number of your State Representative and Senator.

    Tell him or her what you think about Sunday Hunting. Make it well-thought out and original. You might mention that hikers maintain the trails (KTA provides over 30,000 hours of trail maintenance per year - much of that on Sundays).
    In addition Sunday is the only day that many of us have to enjoy the trails.

    Oh, and be sure to mention that you're a constituent - and you vote. You might also specifically request that your representative keep you updated on the bill.

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  2. #2
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    This is a tough one

    SGL are bought and maintained with funds from license fees.

    However, the argument for Sunday hunting has created a split in the hunting community. There are as many arguing for it as against it.

    Trying to create access to SGL's for activites not related to hunting opens up a whole other can of worms. Eventually the discussion turns to some sort of use permit that individuals would have to purchase for hiking, biking, etc.

    I'm not sure what the answer is. I hunt and bike. I'd prefer not to see the state allow hunting on Sunday.

  3. #3
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    Bob- I can see where you're coming from for the SGL part, but I think thats a separate issue- this affects EVERY property where hunting is allowed, including state parks and forests that are not SGL, private property where we have been granted access to ride, etc.... I know the whole 'shared use' issue is an extremely touchy one, but this would allow hunters to be on any valid property on Sundays at the same time I am out there trying to enjoy my ride. Or others are out there with their kids hiking. Or folks are riding their horses. You get the idea...I think this one goes beyond the 'shared use of SGL lands' issue and affects a much wider scope. Thats why I think this one is so important.

  4. #4
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    first off, im against sunday hunting too, I would like a day to ride in the state forest without the risk of being shot. BUT, we need to consider where no hunting on Sundays got started. It was not to give other forest users a day to use the trails etc without fear of getting shot, it was one of the old Pennsylvania "Blue laws" prohibiting many actions on Sunday because of religous beliefs. The vast majority of them have gone away and there is a valid argument for this one to go away too based on why it was originally imposed. Again, im all for keeping no hunting on Sundays but its important to understand the history as well

  5. #5
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    I did my part and sent both an email. Fahn
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmba guy
    first off, im against sunday hunting too, I would like a day to ride in the state forest without the risk of being shot. BUT, we need to consider where no hunting on Sundays got started. It was not to give other forest users a day to use the trails etc without fear of getting shot, it was one of the old Pennsylvania "Blue laws" prohibiting many actions on Sunday because of religous beliefs. The vast majority of them have gone away and there is a valid argument for this one to go away too based on why it was originally imposed. Again, im all for keeping no hunting on Sundays but its important to understand the history as well
    I understand the history as well, but its just that, history. Now there is a new and valid reason to not have hunting on Sundays. That is my point entirely. To allow hunting on Sundays because the original reason is no longer considered 'valid' ignores the new reasons for why it is now valid to designate a day where other recreational users can enjoy nature without fear of being involved at the wrong end of a hunting accident. Not to mention the inevitable conflicts that will occur between hunters and other recreationalists. If everyone on both sides is interested in a two-way dialog and working together, I dont see this as a major issue. If it becomes a major issue, it is because someone is not willing to compromise. I would consider one day a week extremely reasonable -hopefully others agree and are vocal about it.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Element50
    SGL are bought and maintained with funds from license fees.
    This has been discussed here more times than I can count. Majority of PGC funding and SGL management budget does not come from hunting license fees. It comes, first and foremost, from the federal government (under guise of funds, ironically, earmarked for 'wildlife habitat preservation') and from taxes on the sale of ammunition.
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  8. #8
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    Last time this issue came up as a bill (2003) I wrote my state house and senate reps. One was dismissive and the other sent back a personal letter, told me he already agreed with me and advices me to write the chair of the comittee voting on the bill. I have the info of who they were at home.

    The helpful one also told me Sunday hunting has always been pushed by the democratic party and hindered by the GOP? Why? The GOP was just listening to the housing developers. Now that the control of the PA leg has happened, I assume there is no hope and Sunday hunting will come. Sorry to sound hopeless.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymo853
    The helpful one also told me Sunday hunting has always been pushed by the democratic party and hindered by the GOP? Why? The GOP was just listening to the housing developers. Now that the control of the PA leg has happened, I assume there is no hope and Sunday hunting will come. Sorry to sound hopeless.

    You lost me. Why do housing developers care if there's hunting on sunday?
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  10. #10
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead!

    Com'on Guys:

    You know how it works!

    Money = Power, and Control!

    So pony up to you Lobbyist and get spending!

    Otherwise it's just all BLA.. BLA.. BLA.. BLA.. BLA........................................


    What are you worried about? It will be interesting to see all the Quads Guys out on Sundays while Hunters are trying to HUNT!
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  11. #11
    Inbred Homebrewer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proformance Cycle
    Com'on Guys:

    You know how it works!

    Money = Power, and Control!

    So pony up to you Lobbyist and get spending!

    Otherwise it's just all BLA.. BLA.. BLA.. BLA.. BLA........................................


    What are you worried about? It will be interesting to see all the Quads Guys out on Sundays while Hunters are trying to HUNT!

    Holy CRAP, Lee. Are the giantfonts and colors really necessary????

    Maybe it's just me, but it reads like the internet equivalent of using crayon to write letters.
    "mmmm....Beeeeeeer." - Homer J. Simpson

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    Holy CRAP, Lee. Are the giantfonts and colors really necessary????

    Maybe it's just me, but it reads like the internet equivalent of using crayon to write letters.
    Stick:

    SORRY

    Holy GOD the thing just found a MIND of it's own! I hit the 4 and it went to Hyper Space!

    Glad I didn't type in CAPS!

    Oh well, The quad trains will be out in force on Sundays with 108db Exhaust. I am one of those who rides.(quietly and respectfully) I feel there is enough space for everyone. Just not enough Time!

    I stick to private and non hunting lands in the season! We each can't have all, but we can have some of it some of the time!
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  13. #13
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    this again?

    Come on! Let the hunters have their 2 Sundays in eary December. I bet that after they find out that an extra day a week will not help to bag that buck, They will stay home to watch the Eagles screw up again, anyway. Beware those camo archery hunters. A broadhead in your quadacept can limit your climbing ability.
    Bliss is thumping the prophet through the woods, as "Painkiller " wails through your phones. Ride a metal monster.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dankilling
    There are 3 million hikers in Pennsylvania, plus 621,000 backpackers. Add the 1.4 million wildlife-watchers who enjoy our forests and you have a pretty good resident constituency of forest-users. That's not even counting the many others who visit our state to hike, go birding and stroll on our thousands of miles of footpaths.
    Dan - just curious where this originally came from?
    It's a shame we can't put a figure on the number of mtb'ers in PA, and the economic impact they have. As somebody said, it may ulitmately come down to $$.

    Mike K. - if you read the bill, it is not limited to 2 weeks. It simply repeals the ban on Sunday hunting. Period.

  15. #15
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    Good job!

    To all:

    It seems they do it a little different in this state.

    Read and absorb .


    http://www.trails-edge.com/hunt-season.htm
    Proformance Cycle
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT_guy
    Dan - just curious where this originally came from?
    It's a shame we can't put a figure on the number of mtb'ers in PA, and the economic impact they have. As somebody said, it may ulitmately come down to $$.

    Mike K. - if you read the bill, it is not limited to 2 weeks. It simply repeals the ban on Sunday hunting. Period.
    It was posted on bikevmb.com, and I believe the original infomration came from the KTA hiking group.

  17. #17
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    Mike K was referring to rifle season. There are only two weeks of rifle. Unless you count the under 16 and over 65 season, i think they get an extra few days or something. (i would stay out of the woods when the excitable kids and incontinent old men are in the woods.) otherwise you have 1.5 months of archery in october and november, two weeks in december for rifle, 1.5 months in jan and feb. for muzzleloaders, and May is turkey season till 12pm.

    The economic impact of powerbars, gatoraide, and spandex, and bikes made in Taiwan just cant compare to guns, 4 wheel drives, 4 wheelers, ammo, licenses, BEER, porno, Mullet hair cuts, baked beans etc..

    (next section is general comment not meant for you gt guy)
    Personally i hunt and ride (i ride more than i hunt by far) Sunday hunting is going to happen sooner or later (most states already have it anyway). Just be smart and dont ride in rifle season if you are concerned about your safety(as you should be). If you cant take 2 weeks off from riding then you have issues! I would suggest getting a road bike. there are few muzzleloader hunters in pa and it is usually cold and miserable in january and february anyway so you dont loose much, if you do ride then then have at it. Turkey season in may is only really busy for 1 or 2 weeks then everyone quits. I say ride away and I am a turkey hunter.

    I say ride your state forests, state parks etc. hunters should either be prepared to see bikers, hikers, and riders on a designated bike trail system in a forest, or live with disappointment. If they dont like it, hunt somewhere else where there isnt a designated trail system. I did and i only got mad when a horse rider rolled through on an illegal trail where i was legally hunting. It is the equivalent of someone throwing nails on a bike path...it is stupid and just ruins your day and you just want to give someone a beatdown.

    Stay off game lands when it is hunting season b/c it is the right thing to do. usually there are trails that you can ride which are nothing more than dirt access roads. I have never seen legal singletrack in pa on a gamelands. Not saying there isnt any, just saying i never saw it.

    Also think of it this way, (role reversal) if you had only two weekends to ride your full suspension mountainbike and the one place you could get out and practice your sport/hobby/passion with that specific bike had hunters all over the place shooting like crazy, even though they could hunt all year long, how jacked would you be? would you not feel cheated and p!ssed off? If you say no you are lying.

    I wonder.... if pro hunting groups proposed a law saying that mt bikers, hikers, and equestrians couldnt use the forests on saturdays b/c it messes up their hunting how would that go over on these message boards....i guess that is how they feel when people band together to stop them from trying to hunt on sundays so they can ride their bikes and horses. they have just as much right to use the woods as you me or anyone else, and i have no problem letting people hunt (i dont rifle hunt) for a few weeks out of the year when the conditions are at their worst and most miserable. Suck it up and ride a road bike for two weeks .
    Chance favors the prepared mind

  18. #18
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    defCon4 nails it

    Let's all leave the hunters be. To be honest, I'm not afraid to ride in rifle season. I wear a blaze orange vest and ride. I leave the dogs at home, of course, and I avoid areas of know hunter activity. Still I ride.
    Bliss is thumping the prophet through the woods, as "Painkiller " wails through your phones. Ride a metal monster.

  19. #19
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    Good job!

    "Quote"

    "and incontinent old men are in the woods."

    Leads us to the saying:


    Here hold my GUN while I pee!
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  20. #20
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    I too fear it will come to pass eventually. There is too much $$$ behind it. I hunt and have always been involved in other outdoor activities as well. I always felt that I should have one day a week to take my dog for a walk, go for a hike, ride my bike, snow shoeing or what ever I felt like doing, without having to worry about being shot. Since I have been involved with both sides, I always respect the hunters and stay out of the woods 6 days and enjoy my safety doing other stuff on Sundays. If Sunday hunting comes to pass, I think I'll say screw it and ride, hike whatever whenever it suites me. No reason to wait till Sunday, since every day became a Sunday. Sure I'll wear full orange and piss alot of hunters off,but that will be the price they pay to be able to hunt 7 days a week. So in a way it will also be adding 6 days a week when I will do what I want.

  21. #21
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    Point Taken

    Quote Originally Posted by dankilling
    Bob- I can see where you're coming from for the SGL part, but I think thats a separate issue- this affects EVERY property where hunting is allowed, including state parks and forests that are not SGL, private property where we have been granted access to ride, etc.... I know the whole 'shared use' issue is an extremely touchy one, but this would allow hunters to be on any valid property on Sundays at the same time I am out there trying to enjoy my ride. Or others are out there with their kids hiking. Or folks are riding their horses. You get the idea...I think this one goes beyond the 'shared use of SGL lands' issue and affects a much wider scope. Thats why I think this one is so important.
    I understand your point Dan. I wasn't thinking of private land. You're concerns are valid.

    As both a hunter and mountain biker, I get to see the issue from both sides. I have always felt that leaving the woods alone (from hunting pressure) on a Sunday was a good thing. I also think that the resource should be shared by all (except 108 dB quads, ...sorry but the noise ruins the experience).

    There is a lot of turmoil now in regards to the Sunday hunting issue. The hunting community is split. As more and more of the landscape becomes developed, access to the SGL's will be sought by more and more people. It would be nice to find some reasonable plan that would allow everyone to enjoy the outdoors.

    I'd like to be an optimist, but you know how things generally go. Put twenty people in a room and you couldn't get them to agree on what to order for lunch in less than an hour. Unfortunately, Lee is also correct. Money and politics are often the driving force behind decisions rather than common sense. I will be contacting state officials to voice my opinion against Sunday hunting. To be honest, I never really thought the idea of Sunday hunting had a chance and I will be glad when the idea fades away.

  22. #22
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    Good job! Do Something!

    To all:

    Since I can speak form the point of view of a person who wears many hats. MTB, Motorcycles, Quads. I have to say Mt bikers seems to have an attitude about their place in the woods. Mt. bikers tend to want to cut trails due to the fact they need smoother trails to ride due to the fact of the no motor to power the bike. Then the other thing is the "I have more EPO than you" so I can go faster. I don't get this about beating all your buds just cause you can. These are the people you ride with. If you always have to show them up soon you will be riding with yourself. Did this come form the Road sect? Last as a mt biker and the slowest thing on the trail why do mt bikers think they own the trail? I have come across guys who won't move for no one! I am very patient since I know the feeling from both parties. I always move for quads or motorcycles or other mt bikers or hikers and I always say HI or wave! A simple wave or hi will speak volumes. Later down the trail you might be lost or need help and the guy on a quad you were nice to will probably help or could be the land owner!

    Please don't think I'm picking on anyone here, this is not about starting anything with anyone! This is just what I have seen over the years!

    On the quad boards I don't see the quad guys getting all up in arms due to the hunt on Sundays topic. They don't seem to care about it at all. NOW... I know quads do have a whole different attitude, so don't go postal on me about what quads do..... I KNOW!

    The hunters will win this one. It's all about progression. They will get Sundays then somewhere down the road license fees will go up and it will be said WELL... we gave you Sundays! Like I said before MONEY=POWER and CONTROL!

    It's always the Mt Bikers vs someone! WHY? Are all Mt bikers Lawyers? Everyone cries about SGL! Holy GOD I can't take 8 trout anymore the limits 5 now and there are a ton more rules to follow. If the Mt bikers vs everyone keeps up it will attract attention and soon we will be told well you have to ride a red MTB and have a yellow jersey on on every Tuesday at 1 o'clock and you can not ride in low gear on said trail. Ever read the Pa fishing rules?

    What should we do, well try to ride during hunting season somewhere that isn't as heavily hunted or not hunted at all. I just wish more Mt bikers would go about the effort of approaching land owners about use of their land to ride on in exchange for something. Hunting, snowmobile, and motorcycle clubs do this all the time. Like I have said before our MC club rides at a private area and gives an amount of money for the use of the area due to the fact as they used to plant hay there. So we pay for what the hay used to bring the farmer. Small price to pay and what do you think? The farmer doesn't have to do all the work for the hay anymore. He is thrilled! He has more time to HUNT his property! This didn't happen by magic. We worked at it! Ask and you might receive. Work at something and you might gain access. How about hooking up with a hunting club and offer to maintain their trails since Mt.bikers love to cut stuff. The list goes on!

    DO SOMETHING!


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  23. #23
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    Lee, I have had some experience on mc too. I used to be a member of Tower City Trail Riders, some of the leased land was on Hunt Club property and would get closed in hunting season except on Sundays. And I will say everyone pissed and moaned about not being able to ride the closed trails, so I wouldn't put quad,motorcycle riders above MTBers.
    They can be just as pissy.

    And on that same note I used to be very involved with the United Bowhunters of Pa, and they whine more than any MTB club I am a part of. But like you said the squeaky wheel gets the attention. They have a lobbyest and a very well organized roup, so they get what they want.

    Having been involved with alot of outdoor sports, I sorta try and find something that works for everyone. This makes me a strong supporter of none, which doesn't usually get much acomplished. But I usually don't whine about it, just take what I'm given and work with it.

    We are all human...

  24. #24
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    Good job!

    Mike:

    I see your points. It's just a shame more of the Mt Bike community doesn't get involved. Is it that the sport of Mt Biking is to young, as in years, not members? I guess you could look at soccer and golf. They are very organized and they get prime real estate to build fields and courses on. Do you think if you built a specific area for Mt Bikers to ride they would get bored and just not use the area much?

    On the flip side Hunters can ONLY hunt is season! Their time is really limited. Just imagine being ONLY able to Mt Bike for a month or two during the year.

    I still have to laugh, quads are the rouge factor. They ride everywhere and they don't care, and Mt.bikers use a lot of the right of ways the quads create.

    I think we have more room to progress in the State Forests than anywhere else. Now that's a place where you can't ride motorcycles or quads. On a similar note you can ride your mt bike at Allegheny National Forest, yet the times I have been there I never saw a mt bike. Not that I blame someone for not wanting to mix a mt bike, with motorcycles yet you can ride there.

    I think you have to take a look at Hubbard bicycle club. They have a very solid riding area and they police it and maintain it. In that area you can ride, Merli, Lackawanna, Prompton and other areas. The Hubbard guys do all they can to maintain and help in all areas.

    There are lots of private areas to ride if one just steps up and asks. Many farmers don't allow hunting on their properties. One place I ride the gate to the property was old and unpainted. I offered to weld it and paint it and the person was thrilled. What did it cost me? Time? I'm sure other have lot's of stories. I just don't see the scare of hunters vs mt bikers. You know it's at a time of year when many mt bikers put the bikes away anyways.


    On another point you can ride a mt bike on the paved road to get to a trail. Not so with a quad or motorcycle unless the motorcycle is road legal. A mt bike is a road legal, vehicle in Pa. How much do mt bikers pay for this privilege? ZIP! Yet I have to register, inspect, insure my motorcycle to use the same road to get to the same trail mt bikers and motorcycles use. I'm sure it the future we will see insurance for mt bikes. All other forms of riding require it. Quads, snowmobiles, motorcycles, and I'm talking off road use. Did tower city require you to have such insurance to ride on their property? If you ride your motorcycle or quad at Rausch Creek MX Park you have to buy a one year policy for 15 bucks the first time you ride there.

    Ride, respect, rebuild, repeat
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  25. #25
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    Was I wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    This has been discussed here more times than I can count. Majority of PGC funding and SGL management budget does not come from hunting license fees. It comes, first and foremost, from the federal government (under guise of funds, ironically, earmarked for 'wildlife habitat preservation') and from taxes on the sale of ammunition.
    Researched and quoted:

    The Game Commission does not receive any general state taxpayer dollars for its annual operating budget. The agency is funded by license sales revenues; the state's share of the federal Pittman-Robertson program, which is an excise tax collected through the sale of sporting arms and ammunition; and monies from the sale of oil, gas, coal, timber and minerals derived from State Game Lands.

    "State Game Lands represent a tangible asset that hunters and trappers of this state can literally point to as a product of their license fees," Roe said.

    Impression and question:

    Wildlife habitat preservation and hunting are very closely linked. Would the SGL's exist at all if it were not for an interest in wildlife habitat preservation?

  26. #26
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    Just a quickie... Hubbard doesn't own the property and we really don't police it. We just maintain and ride a lot . ttyl, Fahn
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick
    You lost me. Why do housing developers care if there's hunting on sunday?
    Housing developers love to put the housing developments along state forest and state gamelands. The far majority of their target house buyers for $175K to $400K do not hunt and never will but are willing to pay a hefty premium to be next to woods. The housing developers fear if hunting is allowed all weekend, the people will be unwilling to pay the premium for a house next to woods.

    Farmers are also big time against Sunday hunting. Two reasons, most of them are looking to sell their lands to housing developers and they like being able to let the cows out Sundays without hunters taking shots at them.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Element50
    Researched and quoted:

    The Game Commission does not receive any general state taxpayer dollars for its annual operating budget. The agency is funded by license sales revenues; the state's share of the federal Pittman-Robertson program,
    This is true but is really close to being a was. The SGL have been running ion the red for years and the state will have to bail them out soon...

    Second, unlike State Parks and Forest, the State Game Lands do not have to pay eqv. property taxers to local municipalities. You may not think that a big deal but it is to most townships in PA.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Element50
    Researched and quoted:

    Wildlife habitat preservation and hunting are very closely linked. Would the SGL's exist at all if it were not for an interest in wildlife habitat preservation?
    That may be for very few of the hunters but my money would be on hunters interest in meat, thrill of the kill and/or antlers. There is nothing wrong with that, but your statement sound more like a political spin.
    The game lands and how they came about or funded is a mute point. Sunday hunting will affect ever square inch of Pennsylvania; that includes farm lands, state parks, and game land. I donít use game lands except when hiking the AT and when I use State parks during hunting season I limit it to Sundays. Take away that option and I will be out there any day I please. I can understand the hunters perspective on this, but I canít help to feel that it is a bit greedy. Greed may be a strong word but you do not see a Bill to shorten the hunting season so other can us it safely. We have one day; the hunters have six. Sorry, I do not see a problem with that.

    Brian

  30. #30
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    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymo853
    This is true but is really close to being a was. The SGL have been running ion the red for years and the state will have to bail them out soon...

    Second, unlike State Parks and Forest, the State Game Lands do not have to pay eqv. property taxers to local municipalities. You may not think that a big deal but it is to most townships in PA.
    I don't agree with the way the PGC has been managed in the past nor some of their latest decisions regarding wildlife seasons. It's about time for an overhaul but I fear for the land. Right now there are developers out there waiting for the chance to "help" out the commonwealth by buying SGL property to build housing developments. The thought makes me cringe.

    As far as the taxes, I've always been shocked at the low taxes paid to municipalities which have SGL's within their boundaries and I do think it is a very big deal. More housing developments equal more taxes for struggling municipalities. It's a frightening scenario.

    Hopefully if the concern showed here in this forum is any indication of the general PA population, the loss of our valuable resource to money, power, and greed will never happen.

  31. #31
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    Don't Generalize

    Quote Originally Posted by barnold74
    That may be for very few of the hunters but my money would be on hunters interest in meat, thrill of the kill and/or antlers. There is nothing wrong with that, but your statement sound more like a political spin.....

    ...We have one day; the hunters have six. Sorry, I do not see a problem with that.

    Brian
    First:
    It is true that there are "meat hunters" out there who would shoot as many game animals 24 hours a day, 7 days a week if you allowed it but fortunately that group is a small portion of the hunting community.

    Second:
    I wasn't spinning politics, I was just taking part in a discussion. It's how I learn what others are thinking and if my beliefs and opinions aline with theirs. Seems we're all concerned here about the same thing.

    Lastly:
    I also didn't state that I was in favor of Sunday Hunting. I'm not. To say that hunters have six days isn't really fair either. Face it, hunters have jobs too. Take it from me. Getting out to hunt during the week is a day dream and sometimes Saturdays are as well. Truth of the matter is that I have been riding way more than hunting in the last few years. I do not support the addition of another legal hunting day.

  32. #32
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    Sunday hunting it is an attempt to try to compensate for the decline in popularity of hunting. The fact that hunting has declined in popularity since 1981-1982 in PA is well known. Its also declined faster in the younger age groups like lots of other activities. So, there are less hunters and they are getting older on average. The legislators want to reverse this trend and maintain this important constituency.

    The Sunday hunting and youth hunter programs are designed to attract more young people and keep the hunters already there in the loop.

    We are impacted by this issue in the Lehigh Valley. We don't use the gamelands for recreation.Our riding at Salisbury and Jacobsburg is affected by hunting on Sundays. We do all our trailwork at Sals on Sundays during the hunting season. In areas like the LV that are growing, hunting may begin to lose out.
    You can read all about this idea by gooling "hunting losing popularity in PA". While hunting has lost popularity other activities are increasing in popularity like mtn biking for ex.I'd like to keep things the way they are now-no hunting on Sundays.
    Last edited by Guitarswheelies; 03-26-2007 at 05:37 PM.

  33. #33
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarswheelies
    Sunday hunting it is an attempt to try to compensate for the decline in popularity of hunting. The fact that hunting has declined in popularity since 1981-1982 in PA is well known. Its also declined faster in the younger age groups like lots of other activities. So, there are less hunters and they are getting older on average. The legislators want to reverse this trend and maintain this important constituency.

    The Sunday hunting and youth hunter programs are designed to attract more young people and keep the hunters already there in the loop.

    We are impacted by this issue in the Lehigh Valley. We don't use the gamelands for recreation.Our riding at Salisbury and Jacobsburg is affected by hunting on Sundays. We do all our trailwork at Sals on Sundays during the hunting season. In areas like the LV that are growing, hunting may begin to lose out.
    You can read all about this idea by gooling "hunting losing popularity in PA". While hunting has lost popularity other activities are increasing in popularity like mtn biking for ex.I'd like to keep things the way they are now-no hunting on Sundays.
    So then open more and more acres to Mt.Biking since it is more popular now!

    You know what, Limit hunting more and allow Mt Bikers to ride where hunters used to hunt!
    Proformance Cycle
    proformance58@cs.com

  34. #34
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    dont hold back

    Proformance dont hold back in your posts let us know how you really feel.

    The key thing is like you said. Put in the time and effort and most landowners will work with you. same goes for public land managers. if you help them by working their trails and creating a larger user base they will help you get approval for more trails. The thing is few people really want to come and help on a regular basis. that is just the way things work.

    p.s. I will take quads over horses any day of the week. I have never had quad Sh!t flung off my tires and into my face. Repeat with me horses make great dog food.

    And quads ride where they want b/c they can get away from just about anything except another quad. I watch 2 15 year olds out manuver a cop the other day from my front porch. Kind of hard to outrun anything on a mtn. bike b/c riding in high grass kinda sucks and makes you tired fast!
    Chance favors the prepared mind

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    Good job!

    "ME" hold back?

    Never!

    I will throw it out there for you all to hack up or view or do whatever you all do with the stuff here on the board.

    There are many angles to a straight line you just have to see it from a different place!

    You know S--t doesn't hurt as much as being hit by a Quad!
    4 WD X 700Lbs X 35 MPH = OWWWWWeeeeee

    I think the SGC should sell Beer on Sundays in the woods during hunting season to raise money for the coffers! Hunting would increase by 1000 fold!

    There is an answer in every question you just have to ask!

    Proformance Cycle
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  36. #36
    ganginwood
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kline
    Let's all leave the hunters be. To be honest, I'm not afraid to ride in rifle season. I wear a blaze orange vest and ride. I leave the dogs at home, of course, and I avoid areas of know hunter activity. Still I ride.
    I came across a hunter last seson during black powder on a trail that we made. He was pissed. In the brief conversation we had with him, we were quick to realize that unless we were packin, he was going to win that conversation. Orange blaze wouldn't have done us too much good.

    The issue isn't always about getting shot. When you piss these guys off they remove cribbing (stone and log), fell trees, and drop stuff on the trail to make life miserable. All the hard work that you put into something disappears in an instant. Getting shot is the least of my concerns, having them find the trails that I ride tops my list.

    The easiest solution is to stay out of the woods during the season. No exceptions. Otherwise there is always a chance that your asking for problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Aswell
    the 5th poster, ganginwoods, is correct

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ganginwood

    The easiest solution is to stay out of the woods during the season. No exceptions. Otherwise there is always a chance that your asking for problems.

    That's actually where I have the biggest issue- why should I stay out of the woods so they can hunt? Does that mean they should stay out of the woods so I can ride? Hardly.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ganginwood
    I came across a hunter last seson during black powder on a trail that we made. He was pissed. In the brief conversation we had with him, we were quick to realize that unless we were packin, he was going to win that conversation. Orange blaze wouldn't have done us too much good.

    The issue isn't always about getting shot. When you piss these guys off they remove cribbing (stone and log), fell trees, and drop stuff on the trail to make life miserable. All the hard work that you put into something disappears in an instant. Getting shot is the least of my concerns, having them find the trails that I ride tops my list.

    The easiest solution is to stay out of the woods during the season. No exceptions. Otherwise there is always a chance that your asking for problems.
    If you have permission or you owned the land then it' simple. Find his vehicle or hunting license number. Call the Game Comissioner! Report the incident. I don't know any hunter who would threaten someone life over a trail, unless they were on something and I don't mean.....ON A QUAD!

    If you purchase land then you have the say as to who is allowed.

    Even staying out of the woods doesn't matter..... the rest of the year they can come back and remove or destroy stuff!

    If they take revenge by destroying stuff, contact the land owner and again give the info!

    Game cameras work great for other things also, not just game!
    Proformance Cycle
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  39. #39
    Prez NMBA
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    to me the ironic part about sunday hunting would be it would give hunters another day to kill deer which they all say there are too few of so they are not bothering to hunt, thus the decline in hunters. Im just not sure how having an extra day works in increasing the number of hunters, just the time they spend in the woods so no more money to the PGC. I certainly understand theres more than just hunting deer going on, but thats the vast majority of what goes on.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmba guy
    to me the ironic part about sunday hunting would be it would give hunters another day to kill deer which they all say there are too few of so they are not bothering to hunt, thus the decline in hunters.
    I don't think that's the case. Maybe too few trophy deer, but not too few deer.
    This was in today's Allentown Morning Call


    Study: Deer taking heavy toll on Pennsylvania's forests

    Forestry officials say results support further herd reduction.

    Despite liberalized hunting regulations designed to reduce their numbers, whitetail deer continue to cause significant damage in Pennsylvania's state forests, the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources said last week.

    http://www.mcall.com/sports/outdoors...,5448883.story


    Interestingly, here's what our esteemed Governor is thinking about our public lands.
    The part in bold (I added) is what gives the hunters nightmares. You can't go killing the wildlife if people are paying to look at it.

    Friday, March 23, 2007
    Reconnecting Pennsylvanians with the Great Outdoors
    The arrival of warmer weather carries an open invitation to get out and explore Penn's Woods. Unfortunately, the increasing demands of modern life make it difficult for many of us to find the time to enjoy Pennsylvania's great outdoors ó a trend that could eventually threaten key sectors of our economy and our quality of life.
    Similar to national trends, Pennsylvania's aging population, declining numbers of hunters and anglers, loss of open space, increased competition for leisure time and a drop in environmental literacy have combined to cause concern. If not addressed, these trends could suppress tourism revenues and thwart economic development in rural areas.
    We're already working to address this challenge. Just one example is our Pennsylvania Wilds initiative, which promotes nature-based tourism in the north central region. It has become a national model for mobilizing and coordinating a wide array of conservation, tourism promotion, economic development and community revitalization interests.
    After only two years of the program, hotel occupancy rates in the region increased above the state and national averages. In the Elk County community of Ridgway, 30 historic homes have been improved, 20 new businesses started and retained, and county hotel tax receipts are up 20 percent since 2002.
    The Pennsylvania Tourism Office has launched an integrated campaign promoting attractions along the 400-mile stretch of Route 6 that spans northern tier counties. The campaign led to an increase in hotel occupancy rates and sharply boosted inquiries to regional tourism promotion agencies. Many travelers told local business owners that the special campaign was what prompted them to visit the region.
    Statewide, we are protecting more land than anytime during the last 30 years; investing millions of dollars in improvements to our state parks and forests for citizen enjoyment and conservation of the resource; helping communities reconnect to their rivers as a revitalization tool; and enticing people to get outdoors with tourism and heritage marketing efforts and new educational recreational opportunities.

    This week, I was pleased to lead another important effort to help Pennsylvanians reconnect with the outdoors. The Governor's Outdoor Conference brought 300 experts and stakeholders together to discuss the shared challenges we face, as well as forge important new partnerships. We made great progress, but I want to engage the public in a broader dialogue.
    I've appointed a task force that will conduct five statewide public meetings to present conference findings and solicit additional ideas and recommendations. These meetings will be held later this spring in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Scranton, Harrisburg and Erie. The input we gather will be incorporated into a final report with recommendations for action by the General Assembly and my office.

    I hope you join in this important conversation because we must all become a part of the solution. Pennsylvanians simply cannot afford to lose our connection with the outdoors. It's a rich part of our heritage, important to the health of our children and families, and provides the balance we need for a prosperous future.

    http://www.virtualtours.state.pa.us/newsletter/

  41. #41
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    I wasnt saying that it was true, not enough deer that is, thats just what I hear all the hunters whining about and many give that as the reason for the decline in people hunting. Im all for keeping the deer population as low as possible and letting all the logged areas of the forest come back. We wont even get into the "elk hunt" they have every year and what a joke to put money in the pgc coffers that is.

  42. #42
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    That's Pennsylvania for you. #1 in hunters, #1 in ATV's in the nation. Wee hah!!! No wonder mtn bikers have so many headaches.

  43. #43
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarswheelies
    That's Pennsylvania for you. #1 in hunters, #1 in ATV's in the nation. Wee hah!!! No wonder mtn bikers have so many headaches.

    It's GREAT to be KING!

    Proformance Cycle
    proformance58@cs.com

  44. #44
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    From Christian Berg's column in today's "Morning Call":

    The Sunday hunting ban would be repealed by House Bill 779, introduced by Rep. Edward G. Staback, D-Lackawanna. If adopted, the bill would give the Game Commission authority to expand Sunday hunting opportunities as commissioners see fit.

    The Sunday hunting debate is an oldie but goodie in Harrisburg, and the topic always elicits passionate arguments from supporters and opponents. The biggest difference this year is Staback now chairs the House Game and Fisheries Committee. That means Staback, long the Legislature's biggest proponent of Sunday hunting, has the power to move his bill out of committee and press for a full House vote.

    No timetable has been announced, but Staback said shortly after the election last year that Sunday hunting would be a priority for his committee.

  45. #45
    Cyclovore
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    U 4got

    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarswheelies
    That's Pennsylvania for you. #1 in hunters, #1 in ATV's in the nation. We hah!!! No wonder mtn bikers have so many headaches.
    You forgot, #1 in garbage dumps, #1 in imported prisioners. Also Pennsylvania leads the nation in limp wristed anti-hunter and anti ATV sissies. These same "Metros'" are afraid to ride with horses too. Ew, its poop, that should be illegal.
    Bliss is thumping the prophet through the woods, as "Painkiller " wails through your phones. Ride a metal monster.

  46. #46
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kline
    You forgot, #1 in garbage dumps, #1 in imported prisioners. Also Pennsylvania leads the nation in limp wristed anti-hunter and anti ATV sissies. These same "Metros'" are afraid to ride with horses too. Ew, its poop, that should be illegal.

    Like I said, It's Great to be king!


    The only limp wrists I get is from riding my Suzuki 500cc Quadzilla 2 Stroke, Oil Smoke Spewing, Speed Demon down the trials while thinking how great Global Warming is.

    Although I will miss roosting in the snow.

    Maybe the answer is to Ride Quads at the Garbage Dump while Hunting Illegals at the same Time..............Hum Might be a new sport?

    Oh...................sorry I was off base. I retract my last statement! How selfish of Me!

    Never take me serious because it might be you who know what I meant to say was exactly what you thought you heard.
    Proformance Cycle
    proformance58@cs.com

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kline
    You forgot, #1 in garbage dumps, #1 in imported prisoners.
    The only reason PA is #1 is garbage dumps is because the owners of the land fills press the 'economic benefit' issues with the state legislature more than the common vote-casting citizen does. Have you ever written to your state house and senate members on this? If not, what are you waiting for?

    There was a proposal several years ago that would have put an enormous tax on out of state garbage hauled into the state. 'Tipping Fees' they call it, it would have been 300 to 400% of the actual cost to dump a truck load of garbage into the landfill, so the cost to dump garbage would have risen by a huge amount. And all that new tax money was going to be earmarked for improving recycling programs at the municipal level all across the state. So a huge drop in out-of-state garbage, and a significant kickstart to recycling, what's not to like here. I think I'll fire off another letter about this!

  48. #48
    Cyclovore
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    I feel ya

    [quote=XCoalMiner]The only reason PA is #1 is garbage dumps is because the owners of the land fills press the 'economic benefit' issues with the state legislature more than the common vote-casting citizen does. Have you ever written to your state house and senate members on this? If not, what are you waiting for

    I'm waiting for the illegal dumps to be cleaned up first. The majority of the folks round here could give two shits about anything that involves bettering the communinty. As far as writing to Harrisburg, please, I'll pick up the sofas and stoves myself first. Yeah, the trail head is right next to that discarded meth lab over there. Then you go left at the orange sofa, and finish the ride at the spring pond with farmer Browns pesticide cans in it.
    Bliss is thumping the prophet through the woods, as "Painkiller " wails through your phones. Ride a metal monster.

  49. #49
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    They're actually making some progress on the illegal dump sites, at least in the areas in the east central counties that I'm very familiar with.

    Did you ever wonder why certain areas of this state and other states do not have any illegal dumping? It can all be fixed by shifting the method and cost of garbage pickup from individual households pay-by-the-number of garbage cans picked up (by private haulers), to local or regional municipalities picking up all garbage (even if it's subcontracted to private haulers) and paid for through municipal taxes.

    Who would haul their garbage out into the mountains and fields if they knew anything and everything they left curbside would get picked up by the local municipal collection service, and this service was already paid for through their taxes?

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