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  1. #1
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    Hunting at Marsh Creek - Becareful

    All just heads up, bow hunting is now on at Marsh Creek. I encountered some hunters today on the trail. Seems really dangerous to me to allow this but it is legal and they are there. Kind of crazy if you ask me. Becareful out there!
    1998 GT Palomar, 2009 Gary Fisher Paragon.

  2. #2
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    Remember these are state lands. We need to be mindful that other outdoor enthusiasts are perusing their interests. I believe the hunting may be restricted to certain areas. Might want to plan a ride around these areas.

    Remember, bikers can ride all year. Hunters have a comparatively small window time.

    Interestingly, the majority of funding for wildlife and land conservation comes from the sale of hunting licenses.

    Full disclosure: I am both a biker and a hunter.

  3. #3
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    I respect all peoples individuals rights but I would be lying if I did not say my loud noises scaring away deer did not thrill me. Personally I could never hunt and I sure as hell don't want to see a deer get killed. So I am not going to lie I am pretty loud and I am sure it pisses off the hunters but thats my right as well.

    My full disclosure is I literally feed the ground hogs in my backyard and consider them my pets. My dog knows not to bite any of them if he catches them. Just last night I came across 7 to 10 deer and it made my night. Just to see them run gracefully in the woods which I feel like I am guest to them when I am in their home. Just how I feel.
    1998 GT Palomar, 2009 Gary Fisher Paragon.

  4. #4
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    All of the hunters I know are ethical and eat what they kill. It's all about balance. I appreciate your view. I'll also point out that deer have no natural predators other than man. The truth of the matter is that the deer population has become dangerously high and the resulting damage is significant. In Pennsylvania the estimated annual crop loss is $16 to $30 million. The cost of deer-vehicle collisions may exceed $100 million each year in the United States and Canada.

    Not trying to be argumentative here-Just food for thought

    The hunters are actually providing a much needed service.

  5. #5
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    Yea, no argument there. Just take the PA turnpike and you see them literally eating on the side of the highway. I just feel man is building day by day in their land and taking down woods so what would you expect. I did not know that about deer but surely a bear would go after a deer??
    1998 GT Palomar, 2009 Gary Fisher Paragon.

  6. #6
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    Yes there is pressure on their natural habitat. Again with no natural predators other than man the population has become unchecked.

    FYI-The American black bear's (most prolific in pennsylvania) diet is varied, but mostly vegetarian, including twigs, roots, berries, young plants, and buds. Insects—from beetles to ants to bee larvae eaten with honey. Small mammals and fish augment the diet, when they are easily caught.

  7. #7
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    Glad humans are not listed in their diet =-)
    1998 GT Palomar, 2009 Gary Fisher Paragon.

  8. #8
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    Thats a topic for another thread....

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=raekism]I respect all peoples individuals rights but I would be lying if I did not say my loud noises scaring away deer did not thrill me. Personally I could never hunt and I sure as hell don't want to see a deer get killed. So I am not going to lie I am pretty loud and I am sure it pisses off the hunters but thats my right as well.
    QUOTE]

    While it's within your rights, as you stated, to make loud noises while on the trail doesn’t necessarily make it the “right” thing to do. People seeing your actions on the trail are a reflection of us as a user group. There are enough sensitive issues to Mt bikers having trail access in SE PA. Aggravating hunters is not a way of gaining their support and respect, when we all have a mutual vested interest in being out in the woods. This is how we lost access to riding on State Game lands, because we were perceived as a conflict and destructive factor. As hypermac stated, archery season is a short period of the year compared to us having the ability to ride year round. If you want to ride Marsh Creek this time of the year and are concerned about the archery hunters, consider riding on Sundays instead of Saturdays.

    I’ll also note that I am a hiker, hunter and avid mt. biker. I was the first 2 long before I became a mt. biker. I got into riding as another reason for extending my time in the woods and escaping the insanity of the city. Hunting is not always about the “kill”. The challenge, pursuit and spending time in the wilderness is just as satisfying.

  10. #10
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    Well said mtrostle.

  11. #11
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    Hunters are a lot more organized and a lot more vocal than mountain bikers. Pissing them of is a really bad idea. They could easily make a stink about cyclists and the end result would be revoked access to the park. As it is, some of the rangers there already dislike and harass cyclists. If they start getting heat from the group that is responsible for paying the majority of their salaries, it'll only end poorly for us.

  12. #12
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    I used to hunt so I can tell you that most hunters at MC (a) know that MTBers roll thru the park, and (b) will plan their hunt accordingly. If I still hunted I would definitely position myself knowing that bikers would be coming into the woods later in the morning and moving deer around. I actually talked at length with a hunter at MC about this very subject, and he was indeed glad to have bikers moving deer around a little. And it's not just bikers - hikers / trail runners / dog walkers are out there moving deer around as well.

    I also agree about making unnecessary noise while riding - there's no value in it and nothing good can come of it. Just wear bright colors and enjoy the ride.
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  13. #13
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    All the hunters/MTBer's on this thread are forgetting that you are the exception to the norm - you are a thinking, considerate and sober hunting person.

    I can say this from experience - I grew up hunting everything that ran or flew in upstate NY- hunting stero-types exist for a reason. But that is not the point I want to make or debate to get into.

    The number one thing the non-hunter MTBer should understand is that you are F-ing nuts to ride during hunting season in game lands that are popular with hunters. All it takes is a case of mistaken identity or a random shot and your day will be ruined.

    Hunter's have regularly shot cows, dogs, at least a couple other hunter's per season, houses, barns, and other things that weren't in season. If you think your geeky bell, rattle trap bike or flaming roadie spandex is going to make you look like a non-game target, I have a $2000 FS Huffy to sell you.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  14. #14
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    justriding, I hear ya. My father-in-law is a game warden. I wouldn't argue the stereotypes! Point about riding with hunters is well taken... if concerned, ride somewhere else.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by justriding
    The number one thing the non-hunter MTBer should understand is that you are F-ing nuts to ride during hunting season in game lands that are popular with hunters.

    If you think your geeky bell, rattle trap bike or flaming roadie spandex is going to make you look like a non-game target, I have a $2000 FS Huffy to sell you.
    Please understand that I am NOT trying to start a flame war, but when was the last time a mountain biker was accidentally shot by a hunter in PA? I ride pretty frequently during hunting season, and while I acknowledge that it surely increases my chances of accidentally getting shot.... those chances are still very, VERY minute. I don't hunt, and never have, but every hunter I've met has been a very responsible person, to the point at which I trust them.

    But that's just me... I guess everyone can weigh there options and decide for themselves accordingly.... But it's not like bullets, shot, and arrows are constantly whizzing by my head while riding....

    I won't ride in designated state gamelands, though... thats asking for trouble. But multi-use state lands (like marsh creek) are there for everyone.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by raekism
    My full disclosure is I literally feed the ground hogs in my backyard and consider them my pets. My dog knows not to bite any of them if he catches them.
    I'm still trying to picture a dog catching a ground hog without biting it. That's one talented dog!

    I've ridden Marsh Creek only a handful of times. One thing I noticed is that there's a ridiculously high population of hunters. In only a few rides there I've stared down the barrel of a shotgun more times than I'd like to remember. I know kayakers who've been splashed by stray shot hitting the water near them. I ride a lot of different places year round, but I'll be avoiding MC like the plague during hunting season.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BShow
    Hunters are a lot more organized and a lot more vocal than mountain bikers. Pissing them of is a really bad idea. They could easily make a stink about cyclists and the end result would be revoked access to the park. As it is, some of the rangers there already dislike and harass cyclists. If they start getting heat from the group that is responsible for paying the majority of their salaries, it'll only end poorly for us.
    This.

    Plus, I only go hunting during buck season, which is a whole 12 days or so, of which 3 I will actually be able to hunt this year. If that singular moment on one of those three out of 365 days where I actually had a shot at a legal buck was ruined by some asshat not following the rules and riding his bike, I would be piiiiiiiissed.

    Out of all the places I go riding, the only one I have limited use because of hunting is up near Jim Thorpe. I can deal with only riding up there on Sundays for a few months out of the year.

    And I posted this in another thread, but I was told by a ranger that they would be cracking down this year and issuing fines, he said they weren't enforcing the "only on Sundays between September and January" rule for the past 5 years it's been out, and they are going to get strict with it. I dunno if they say that every year, but given that I frequently see them at trailheads, I'm not about to test that.

  18. #18
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    I think the truth on safety for a non hunting land user probably lies somewhere in the middle.

    There is really almost no danger at all to biking during archery season. Even a bow shooting serious FPS has a pretty limited range. And you can't really hunt archery out in the open for multiple reasons (deer aren't running scared during archery season, they're a lot more aware and cautious compared to opening day of rifle season). So an arrow isn't going to travel 500 yards through the woods and randomly kill you on your bike.

    With that said, I would be really hesitant to go hiking or biking during any rifle season. Most hunters I know are responsible people. For how many people go hunting in PA, very few accidents happen. BUT, a bullet fired from a rifle can randomly travel 500-1000 yards through the woods (in which case, the hunter would have no way of knowing you were there at that distance) or ricochet off of rock, etc. and kill you on your bike. The odds of that happening are a lot higher than the odds of someone mistaking a mt biker for game or shooting a mt biker for no reason.

  19. #19
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    FWIW, I ran into hunters at Marsh Creek last fall on Sundays. If you're trying to avoid hunters outright, don't assume you'll be free and clear on an "off day".

  20. #20
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    Like I said just make a little noise to let hunters know you are around. MTBers have just as much right to be there as hunters. It is on the hunters who have weapons to use diligence and due care when in the woods. Worst case, you get hurt, then you could have yourself a nice civil lawsuit if they did not practice this.

    btw- those deer are smart I seen then out in the middle of the field yesterday as the sun was setting. Guess they figured they know they can out run a hunter in the open haha.
    1998 GT Palomar, 2009 Gary Fisher Paragon.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by raekism
    Like I said just make a little noise to let hunters know you are around. MTBers have just as much right to be there as hunters. It is on the hunters who have weapons to use diligence and due care when in the woods. Worst case, you get hurt, then you could have yourself a nice civil lawsuit if they did not practice this.

    btw- those deer are smart I seen then out in the middle of the field yesterday as the sun was setting. Guess they figured they know they can out run a hunter in the open haha.
    both statements show you are an idiot.

    Do you really want to rely on someone else to use due care to keep you safe? Since you've never been hunting, you haven't had the perspective to see what a high velocity round does to flesh, "a nice civil lawsuit" is not going to do you any good; may get a little bit of change for your relatives, provided you were lucky enough to shot by a hunter of high net worth or heavily insured.

    And deer are some of the dumbest game animals there are. You don't hunt them by running them down, you either sit in a tree stand drinking Natty Lite and picking them off til you can't shoot straight anymore, you put on a drive with your hunting partners or you stalk them. If a decent hunter saw all those deer in the middle of the field, he probably could pick off at least 2 from a couple hundred yards.

    Yes, you have as much right to be out there as the hunters, but you are clearly only concerned for your fun and screw everyone else. It is the same attitude that many hikers, dog walkers, hunters, horsey folk have towards MTBers.

    You want to go put your thumb in the eye of the man, go find some constructive meaningful way to do it, other than messing with the hunters during their limited season, riding your little bike through the woods. If you ask the general public what a MTBer is they would say we are narcissistic, elitists, with too much disposable income; second only to roadies.

    Oh yeah, and I hate your f-ing ground hogs. You can literally drive along til you see one, pull over, lay your rifle on the hood of your truck, whistle and the dumb little bastard will pop his head up. I think the record was something like 7 one day when we were kids.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

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    This is about as much as a read "both statements show you are an idiot." I was once told wise men never argue with fools. I obviously hit on a nerve with you chief. When you are done PMSing you can join the adults for some intellectual conversations. Until then I will keep laughing... so haha.
    1998 GT Palomar, 2009 Gary Fisher Paragon.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by raekism
    This is about as much as a read "both statements show you are an idiot." I was once told wise men never argue with fools. I obviously hit on a nerve with you chief. When you are done PMSing you can join the adults for some intellectual conversations. Until then I will keep laughing... so haha.

    I know. I should have known better - you can't fix stupid. That may be wrong though; based on your inability to write coherently or use correct grammar, you may be learning disabled. So I am sorry Corky, I'll make sure to never disagree with you again. Because it is all about you, right.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

  24. #24
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    Exactly, you can't fix stupid as you looked in the mirror. When you are done PMSing, please come back to the forum. Until then speak when spoken to. If you want me to call you Corky, no problem there. I hope you were able to understand my grammar, I tried to dumb it down for you. Good day to you.
    1998 GT Palomar, 2009 Gary Fisher Paragon.

  25. #25
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    You are awesome. I could do this all day.

    Is your next post going to be something like: "I'm rubber and you're glue?" Listen, just go home from your shift at the Walmart electronics department, get Mr. Blue Bird on your shoulder, feed your ground hogs and whack it to the deer bounding through the field; it'll be ok.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -HST

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