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  1. #1
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    Governor Dick - Trail 13, 12, and 5????!!!!!!!!!

    Set out this morning with two friends from Bainbridge on the Conoy River Trail to Falmouth and then asphalted it over to the rail trail at Pa 230 from there we connected with the Horseshoe trail up through the State Game Lands to Pinch Road.

    We intended to ride 5 from the Pinch Road Parking Lot to old 72, up old 72 to 13, 13 to 15 and decide if we had the legs and the time for 15, if not, which is what happened, we would continue on 13 and loop back to 5.

    So we make it up 13 to a sign marking the intersection with 12. 12 is closed to bikes, we saw tire tracks heading left up 12 so we followed them looking for the intersection with 5 but it became clear that we were heading up hill instead of staying between the hills. We consulted the map and returned to the 12 / 13 intersection and continued on down 12, no trail 13 or 5 signs for about 100 yards.

    We returned to the 12/13 intersection and were met by two bikers coming down 12 who told us 12 was open to bikes. We discussed the map with them and they told us the map was wrong. We pointed out the intersection sign that indicated 12 was no bikes. They said the signs are wrong and rode off down 13. We also turned back down 13 and retraced our previous route back to 5.

    We then rode 5 very slowly and we found the intersection for the none bike 13 and then the none bike 12 but no intersection for Bike 13 that should be coming from 15.

    Not seeing any tire tracks on none Bike 12 from the 5 / 12 intersection, I walked up 12 a short ways and still didnt find tracks. We decided to head back to Bainbridge and not cause anymore trouble for the local bikers as the section of 12 we rode up hill from 13 was wet so we left tracks, our tracks plus the tracks of the other two riders are going to be noticed.

    First off I want to apologize for leaving tracks on none Bike 12 up hill from 13, especially for as long as we did, the map clearly shows that bike 13 stays between the hills.

    Second, what am I missing at the 13 / 12 intersection? Should we have turned right and that would take us down to 5? The SAMBA website clearly states that trail 12 from 9 downhill to Trail 5 13 is none bike.

    Now the three of us are in our late 50's and each married for 30+ years and without our wive's input we only have a 50/50 chance of being right 25 percent of the time. So we could have been looking right at the bike 13 spur to 5 and not even notice it. I do find it hard to believe that as slow as we ride we would have missed the 5 / bike 13 intersection on our return leg.

    What did the three of us miss at the bike 13 / none bike 12 intersection?

    Please advise!

    ZIT30/34

  2. #2
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    that sounds like a heckuva nice long ride!

    the trail marker at the jct of 12 and 13 is wrong. Coming from 13 to the T with 12 the "no bikes" icon point left and right; it should only be pointing to the left. You are suppose to be able to turn right and take that 20 yard connector to 5.

  3. #3
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    Thanks moonraker,

    We are just old guys on 1X9 rigids, each of us custom ordered a frame and set them with after market stuff like Chris King, Industry 9, and so forth. We look really good and you can see all the cool stuff because we are so friggin slow. About the only modern technology on our bikes are carbon forks.

    A rigid at the speed we ride makes easy work of the asphalt and rail to trail, and does well climbing up through the state game lands to Pinch. When things get rough at the Dick we go to the 30/34 and trials moves. You probably smoke 15 in 30 minutes, it takes us an hour to hour and a half. The biggest joke with me is I will get into a track stand and take so long to commit that my friends slam me with "look dude if your waiting for erosion to clean the line, we dont have time".

  4. #4
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    The 2 bikers that told you trail 12 was open to bikes are also definitely wrong. Some bikers have actually removed the non-biking signs from both the top of 12(at 10) and the sign at the intersection of 13 and 14 just to voice their dissapproval the recent trail closures.
    I found the sign at 13-14(where the rock is) along with the box with the notice in it about 30 feet from the trail in the woods a few weeks ago and did my best to put it back up. the brown sign was broken so I jammed it between the box and the ground, at least temporarily anyway. I also noticed that someone actually put the box with the notice in it up a tree at the top of 12 so no-one without a ladder or incredible climbing skills can remove it again, nice... The idiots that do this stuff are going to do nothing but ruin it for everyone else that enjoys it there and plays by the rules...Here is a copy of the map from another post with the accurate trail info on it just in case anyone else would like it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Governor Dick - Trail 13, 12, and 5????!!!!!!!!!-gv-dick-18-feb-2010-new-tr-designations-b.jpg  


  5. #5
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    Lugi, thanks for the input. The map you posted is the one we printed in black and white but hand marked the trails as NONE and BIKE, I used NONE out of habit instead of NON.

    In the black and white form the 12 - 13 - 5 - 14 portion lost its clarity. I dont remember the sign marking the intersection for 13 - 14, so I was thinking that 12 flowed directly into 14 so if we turned left ( up hill on 12) we would find a right hand intersection leading to 5. In color it is clear that to reach 14 from 12 you have to ride a portion of 13. Had the map been in color ( I am cheap) we would have turned right and rode out to 5.

    If riders are damaging the signs than we are all screwed. Its private land opened to the public so you would think we would be working with the Park instead of against it.

    Some riders have my private email and have really ripped into me for riding up 12 when it was wet, worried that now I gave GD the proof they need to ban mountain bikes because we are all outlaws. Another rider emailed me and told me he just gave up riding any trail but 5 and 15. I received two emails saying that we are all caught in the politics between some local bike shop / rider and GD and we are all going to lose.

    ZIT30/34

  6. #6
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    ZIT, Sounds like you did the best you could under the circumstances. People just need to relax and realize that even when we try our best, nobody's perfect. An occasional, accidental, errant tire track is not the end of the world.

    Looking at the map, the best trails are still open! Looks like a decent compromise. The glass is way more than half full.

    I haven't been to GD in a while. That map reminds me I need to get back there soon!

  7. #7
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    Poor trail markings at Governor Dick/Mount Gretna

    Sometimes if you want something done correctly you should do it yourself. Matt and I have learned that lesson with regard to Ranger Dave's poor job of posting the foot travel only trails. We, (Matt and Desiree), heads of the Trail Support Committee at Governor Dick refused to do it because we felt it was a huge conflict of interest and contradictory to our support of a multi-use trail system. Now, we are forced to take an entire day of our lives to correct the problem and unfortunately it will be a two person job. I do appreciate the many offers by others to help. I suspect next week we will perform the dirty job of making the postings more obvious.

    Another point I would like to make with regard to removing the trail markings or damaging them. Please, please do not. Not only does it make an additional amount of work for us but it also is in very poor taste and makes our group look bad. We are simply volunteers with real full time jobs who would much rather be enjoying riding than performing unnecessary trail work. Also, it is quite evident the foot travel only trails are being used by bikers and equestrians. I assure you it is noticed. A word of caution....the ranger is a teacher who has summers off and tends to spend much more time at the park in those months. To be caught riding the foot travel only trails will be detrimental to our use and could result in all trails becoming foot travel only.

    Last, I know most of you who read this posting are not the culprits. Heck, those persons probably don't belong to any mountain bike advocacy groups or give a crap about the sport what so ever. Simply, I am venting my frustrations to whomever wishes to listen and I greatly appreciate the support to us and the Park at Governor Dick.

    Have a great mother's day weekend. Matt and I are actually heading to a rally at Moon Lake to support their cause. It is very close to where my parents live.

    Happy Trails.

    Desiree

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuchess
    Sometimes if you want something done correctly you should do it yourself. Matt and I have learned that lesson with regard to Ranger Dave's poor job of posting the foot travel only trails. We, (Matt and Desiree), heads of the Trail Support Committee at Governor Dick refused to do it because we felt it was a huge conflict of interest and contradictory to our support of a multi-use trail system. Now, we are forced to take an entire day of our lives to correct the problem and unfortunately it will be a two person job. I do appreciate the many offers by others to help. I suspect next week we will perform the dirty job of making the postings more obvious.

    Another point I would like to make with regard to removing the trail markings or damaging them. Please, please do not. Not only does it make an additional amount of work for us but it also is in very poor taste and makes our group look bad. We are simply volunteers with real full time jobs who would much rather be enjoying riding than performing unnecessary trail work. Also, it is quite evident the foot travel only trails are being used by bikers and equestrians. I assure you it is noticed. A word of caution....the ranger is a teacher who has summers off and tends to spend much more time at the park in those months. To be caught riding the foot travel only trails will be detrimental to our use and could result in all trails becoming foot travel only.

    Last, I know most of you who read this posting are not the culprits. Heck, those persons probably don't belong to any mountain bike advocacy groups or give a crap about the sport what so ever. Simply, I am venting my frustrations to whomever wishes to listen and I greatly appreciate the support to us and the Park at Governor Dick.

    Have a great mother's day weekend. Matt and I are actually heading to a rally at Moon Lake to support their cause. It is very close to where my parents live.

    Happy Trails.

    Desiree


    If want a hand doing it let me know when.

  9. #9
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    I am currently laid off and would be willing to lend a hand as well if you need me to.
    I am sure you already saw the major tree issue on 15? I was up there Thursday and the trail is now completely blocked. Will take a lot of work to clear it.
    Keep up the great work. I certainly do not want to lose my favorite riding spot. As a matter of fact I will be there tomorrow morning.
    Last edited by Lugi; 05-09-2010 at 07:29 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDuchess
    Sometimes if you want something done correctly you should do it yourself. Matt and I have learned that lesson with regard to Ranger Dave's poor job of posting the foot travel only trails. We, (Matt and Desiree), heads of the Trail Support Committee at Governor Dick refused to do it because we felt it was a huge conflict of interest and contradictory to our support of a multi-use trail system. Now, we are forced to take an entire day of our lives to correct the problem and unfortunately it will be a two person job. I do appreciate the many offers by others to help. I suspect next week we will perform the dirty job of making the postings more obvious.

    Another point I would like to make with regard to removing the trail markings or damaging them. Please, please do not. Not only does it make an additional amount of work for us but it also is in very poor taste and makes our group look bad. We are simply volunteers with real full time jobs who would much rather be enjoying riding than performing unnecessary trail work. Also, it is quite evident the foot travel only trails are being used by bikers and equestrians. I assure you it is noticed. A word of caution....the ranger is a teacher who has summers off and tends to spend much more time at the park in those months. To be caught riding the foot travel only trails will be detrimental to our use and could result in all trails becoming foot travel only.

    Last, I know most of you who read this posting are not the culprits. Heck, those persons probably don't belong to any mountain bike advocacy groups or give a crap about the sport what so ever. Simply, I am venting my frustrations to whomever wishes to listen and I greatly appreciate the support to us and the Park at Governor Dick.

    Have a great mother's day weekend. Matt and I are actually heading to a rally at Moon Lake to support their cause. It is very close to where my parents live.

    Happy Trails.

    Desiree
    I wuldn't have thought that dis'ing the local ranger on a public forum would be a helpful strategy, but I hope it works out well for you.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tduro
    I wuldn't have thought that dis'ing the local ranger on a public forum would be a helpful strategy, but I hope it works out well for you.
    I can almost assure you that Dave doesn't read this forum. But what she said is true he will be there all summer. He actually isn't a bad guy just a little stubborn. He follows the rules to the letter so if we all stay off the closed trails there shouldn't be any problems. Have you considered driving a post into the center of the entrance of these trails making it impossible for someone to plead ignorance. If funding is an issue I would be willing to donate some money for the posts.

  12. #12
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    Chaos and Confusion rule the day

    We learned 2 lessons today:1. research online before going for a ride on a new trail. 2. Search for a local bike store no matter how small the town before riding in a new place... However our edition of Mountain Biking of PA is pretty recent and it recommended these trails as a "must do ride". So, last day of vacation we load up the bikes and head 2 hours south to experience them ourselves. Wish we would've read this forum first. We certainly found much confusion, and many changes since the guide was written. Not to mention unfriendly hikers who were unwilling to point us to the trails we SHOULD be on, wanted to be on, and would've been on in the first place if we could have figured out the trail markers. Our apologies for our part in making it harder for the locals who are trying to make these multi-use trails. It was obvious in the few hours that we were there that much remains to be done and much resistance to be overcome. Good luck.

  13. #13
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    Online research....Gov. Dick/Mount Gretna

    JRG52,

    Sorry your ride experience at GD was unpleasant. My best approach to riding a new place is either contacting the local bike club and/or bike shop. In our case www.sambabiker.com would have given you the most up to date info. and an accurate map to follow. The current trail posts are rather confusing in some areas but we will fix that in the very near future. Approx. 12 mile of trail are official and multi-use. If you come here to ride again we can hook you up with some locals who know the trails and can show you the best ride. Please feel free to contact either Matt or Desiree McElheny via the SAMBA website and we will make your ride worth while. I do hope you at least found trail 15.

    Sincerely,

    Desiree (The Duchess) & Matt (The Duke)
    Trail Support Committee at Governor Dick

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