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  1. #1
    guy in the woods
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Dirtrag Dirtfest 2011

    DIRTRAG DIRTFEST 2011
    May 20-22nd 2011
    Friday-Saturday-Sunday
    Riding-Advocacy-Camping


    Camp out on a peninsula in the largest lake in Pennsylvania only 500 feet from the Allegrippis Trails.

    Demo Zone - Live Music - Craft Brews - Rays2Lake - Mini-series - IMBA Trail Clinics and Talks - Mtn Bike Movie Night

    If you missed it last year be sure to make it this year. There is an event cap on the camping.
    Registration starts Feb 1st on www.BikeReg.com

    Interested in becoming a sponsor or exhibitor email us.

    Got Questions or Thoughts about the event....well this is a forum.

  2. #2
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    sweet, I'm going....

  3. #3
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    Road Trip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #4
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    Can't wait, always a good time!!!

    Any chance we could order Dirt Fest tee's when we register? they sold out quick last year :-(

  5. #5
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    it pissed rain last year, and it was still a lot of fun.

  6. #6
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    Marked it on the calendar!
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. - Winston Churchill

  7. #7
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    It friggn dumped buckets last year but I think it was the most fun I ever had on a Mountain Bike trip! I'm in!

  8. #8
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    I ask this because I am very interested and I am not trying to be a ******, but are the trails like over-crowded for this to where it kinda sucks, and if so does all the other stuff that happens make it ok that the trails are crowded?

    I only ask cuz I am having a hard time picturing how many people would be on the trails. But everyone I talk to that went last year said that it was awesome!

  9. #9
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    I went the last 2 years and the trails didn't seem crowded at all. It was quite the opposite riding wondering where all the people are at. Every once in a while you will run into groups of riders but the stacked trails and suggested way to follow them keep you moving pretty good.

  10. #10
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    Very fun last year, but very wet Saturday. As long as my shoulder is good(had an MRI this morning), I'm in!
    Most fun I have ever had on 2 wheels.

  11. #11
    trail addict
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX
    I ask this because I am very interested and I am not trying to be a ******, but are the trails like over-crowded for this to where it kinda sucks, and if so does all the other stuff that happens make it ok that the trails are crowded?

    I only ask cuz I am having a hard time picturing how many people would be on the trails. But everyone I talk to that went last year said that it was awesome!
    That's what I was wondering... also wondering if I can really get away for a whole weekend....

    And also, Diablo/Blue Mt schedules may influence whether I make it...
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  12. #12
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    looking forward to this! how about you jhile? I claim spot 47, if i register in time...

  13. #13
    Paper Mill Aleworks
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    Just registered!
    Got the "Scud" package, so I can get a bit more exposure to the whole event, since I have never been.
    Looking forward to it.
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. - Winston Churchill

  14. #14
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    Just register, this will be my first time. hope it is as fun as every one is posting.
    2012 FatBack with BFL tires
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    2006 Specialized RockHopper

  15. #15
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    One way

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Six Pack
    That's what I was wondering... also wondering if I can really get away for a whole weekend....

    And also, Diablo/Blue Mt schedules may influence whether I make it...

    They mark the trails one way for the weekend; so even though there are hundreds of riders out you can still fly on this 30 mile pump track

  16. #16
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    Here's the direct link to the DirtFest registration, a little easier than the original link

    DirtFest

    Think I'm in this year.

  17. #17
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    This should be a fun time, can't wait.

  18. #18
    guy in the woods
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    Event Updates

    Brewers Grove: Breweries can reserve a spot in a shaded area and dispense brew throughout the day on Saturday. Sorta like a wine tasting without all the grapes.

    Rays2Lake w/ houseboat shuttle will again take place.

    DirtRag Epic- Saturday 4-5hr ride staffed by DirtRag Staff

    Three Days of Riding Three Days of Demos

    Two Nights of Live Music: FatMan Band and The EarthTones

    IMBA Ales For Trails

    Houseboat Camping Option

  19. #19
    mostbrokenestscaphoidever
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    I'll be there again...

    Can't wait! Roadtrip from Canada!

    Come by the Niner booth and say hello... I'll be helping out again this year...
    misfit diSSent 29er SS
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  20. #20
    um... yeah
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    www.dirtragdirtfest.com!

  21. #21
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    There is great camping out there and even better trails.


    -Joe

  22. #22
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    Personally I like Raystown better on non-dirtfest weekends. There are just to many riders on the trails. I don't know how others didn't run into other riders, b/c we did even though we started off quite early in the morning and I don't like getting stuck behind people. On our group rides we have a nice system where I lead or am 2nd-3rd in line descending. At the bottom I move out of the way of the climbers and take up the last spot for the climbs.

    Also, I really hope the organization of the event is better this year. It was so haphazard last year. From the placement of the groups at campsites (our group had about 20 people signed up and were split amongst 3-4 spread out sites) to the beer tent (late, only 2 breweries, and ran out of beer) and timing of other events etc (the organization for the grand opening event was much better).

    If you haven't made it to Raystown lake though or missed last years event, go this year. Even w/ the negatives I mentioned I had a lot of fun last year, but I really hope they learned and improve. I will be skipping it this year, hoping it is better, and return next year if it is. The potential is there for a real premiere event.

    Here is the vid I made from last years Dirtfest to get those that are going this year stoked.
    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/20060331" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0"></iframe><p><a href="http://vimeo.com/20060331">Just some Rides - Dirtfest 2010</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/diggingtrail">diggingtrail</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

  23. #23
    psycho cyclo addict
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    Me and my girlfriend are going... first time for both of us. "Pump track on steroids" sounds like a BLAST!

  24. #24
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    ChevyM14...Dont worry about a thing...this place rocks..its like a gigantic fun roller coaster!!!! edubfromktown...u and ur gf are def gonna have a blast!!! I went last year for the first time and we loved it...We came back later on in like September and camped out and did it all over again cause we enjoyed it soo much!!! Its about a 3 hour drive for us!! Loved the demo area last year, maybe I will take one out and ride this time!! I hope theyre gonna have the BBQ pit there again this year!! FunFunFun time for all!!!

  25. #25
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    Question about the Demo area. I am really interested in this because I am looking to get a Trek Hifi or Niner Rip 9 right in that time frame. How does the demo area work and can you take a bike out for x amount of hours? I am hoping at a minimum Niner has a small and medium Rip 9.

    First time to Dirtfest but I been to Raystown before and it is FUN!

  26. #26
    mostbrokenestscaphoidever
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    Quote Originally Posted by YellaLab
    Question about the Demo area. I am really interested in this because I am looking to get a Trek Hifi or Niner Rip 9 right in that time frame. How does the demo area work and can you take a bike out for x amount of hours? I am hoping at a minimum Niner has a small and medium Rip 9.

    First time to Dirtfest but I been to Raystown before and it is FUN!

    I was helping at the Niner Bike booth last year and YES you are able to take bikes out on the trails for a ride. You have to leave your Driver's license and have the bike back before a certain time. They do with anyone offering demo rides. I don't recall how long the bikes were out for, but to give everybody a fair try ther was a time frame...

    This year, I am not sure how they are handling the timelines or the usage, but most likely you will be able to take them out - that is why indeed they are called demos

    I will be there again this year. Last year I built my new One 9 at the booth and will bring it down to actually enjoy riding it.
    misfit diSSent 29er SS
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  27. #27
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    Thanks for the feedback!

  28. #28
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    I'm thinking about making the trip...it's only about 2 hours out the turnpike from Lancaster. I saw the post above that Niner has a booth.....were there any others last year? For anyone who went last year, to get the full experience do you recommend camping out? I ask because I could stay at a cabin with running water, tv, etc about 20 min away and can't decide if I want to camp or not

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysty
    I was helping at the Niner Bike booth last year and YES you are able to take bikes out on the trails for a ride. You have to leave your Driver's license and have the bike back before a certain time. They do with anyone offering demo rides. I don't recall how long the bikes were out for, but to give everybody a fair try ther was a time frame...

    This year, I am not sure how they are handling the timelines or the usage, but most likely you will be able to take them out - that is why indeed they are called demos

    I will be there again this year. Last year I built my new One 9 at the booth and will bring it down to actually enjoy riding it.

    Cool I hope to get a chance to test ride one. Any other booth's going to have test bikes?

  30. #30
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    For me,half the fun of an MTB trip is tent camping, the campfire and brewing a fresh pot of coffee in the AM over the fire.

    Anyone know how tight they pack you in at the campground? I sure would like enough room to build my own fire for cooking.

  31. #31
    dsx
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    Last year it was great.. the trails weren't super crowded, but I felt like alot of locals/regulars who attended had decided it would be best to run the trails the way THEY like to, rather than obeying the one-way signs of the event. And it was those people who often expected YOU to yield to them.

    So apart from having to be extremely careful and aware not to run into people going the wrong way, it was a great time. It was an awesome community atmosphere with so many other MTB'ers hanging around.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsx
    Last year it was great.. the trails weren't super crowded, but I felt like alot of locals/regulars who attended had decided it would be best to run the trails the way THEY like to, rather than obeying the one-way signs of the event. And it was those people who often expected YOU to yield to them.

    So apart from having to be extremely careful and aware not to run into people going the wrong way, it was a great time. It was an awesome community atmosphere with so many other MTB'ers hanging around.
    Maybe they can't read? Or maybe they didn't know there was an event going on? They could have thought the signs were from a previous event? Or maybe they were not of sound body and mind. : Lord knows, there are plenty of them. Could have made too many trips to the beer tent.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpokeGuy
    Cool I hope to get a chance to test ride one. Any other booth's going to have test bikes?
    GT is gonna have their big rig there and cannondale is gonna have some stuff as well.

  34. #34
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    is Eagle trail going to be open for Dirtfest?

  35. #35
    What bruise?
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    The volunteers were working on that with the hope of having it open this week. I need to talk with a friend that was supposed to be out there yesterday to see how far they got.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by veryavgwhtguy
    is Eagle trail going to be open for Dirtfest?
    Rode Eagle last night. All clear

  37. #37
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    Expected Trail/Camping Conditions?

    Already registered and psyched for the first big riding weekend of 2011. That said, it looks like clouds/showers for most of next week including the festival.

    Is there someplace I will be able to find updates on the trail conditions- either here, elsewhere in the PA forum or perhaps on a local site? I understand they're well-cut and designed for good drainage but I'd feel more confident that I won't be contributing to erosion or trail damage if I can see some updates from locals who know and ride the trails regularly.

    Also, for anyone who went last year or is familiar with the camping area- how do you expect it to hold up under several days of rain and heavy foot traffic?

    I love camping, biking, mud and rain as much as the next guy but I don't want to drag the mrs. along for a total slop-fest weekend and hurt the trails to boot. I'd rather go out there under sunny skies and just eat the pre-paid registration fee.

  38. #38
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    Dunno about day of conditions but we rode it this past Monday and it was almost 100 percent dry, even after the crappy spring we've had.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachkecz

    I love camping, biking, mud and rain as much as the next guy but I don't want to drag the mrs. along for a total slop-fest weekend and hurt the trails to boot. I'd rather go out there under sunny skies and just eat the pre-paid registration fee.

    Tent camping in the rain is a total bummer. It's not too bad if you're already set up and then it starts raining but you need a canopy over the camp fire too. Maybe the forecast will change. I'll decide whether or not I'm going based on the Thursday evening forecast.

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    What's the camping like? Is there a way to put up a big tarp (trees) if it's raining? How far are the cabins/ motel from the site?

    THANKS!

  42. #42
    Dinner for wolves
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbeck
    Tent camping in the rain is a total bummer. It's not too bad if you're already set up and then it starts raining but you need a canopy over the camp fire too. Maybe the forecast will change. I'll decide whether or not I'm going based on the Thursday evening forecast.
    Forecast is now calling for sun on Saturday and Sunday with 20% chance of rain on those days. An improvement over last night's forecast. Fingers crossed! It is still going to be a mud bog near the water, I imagine.
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  43. #43
    Delirious Tuck
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    What's grub situation like? I'm planning on bringing small gas grill to cook dinner, lunch and brekkie food.

    Lookin forward to the trails!

  44. #44
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    OK. Lets hear from the locals. How much rain are you getting? We are getting dumped on in Lancaster! I know these trails are designed to handle the rain, but we're getting a lot this week. We will be there regardless. We had a good time last year, even in the rain. Is there any chance it would be cancelled if the trails are not ride-able?

    Thanks

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by lampeterbiker
    OK. Lets hear from the locals. How much rain are you getting? We are getting dumped on in Lancaster! I know these trails are designed to handle the rain, but we're getting a lot this week. We will be there regardless. We had a good time last year, even in the rain. Is there any chance it would be cancelled if the trails are not ride-able?

    Thanks
    2nd that question to the locals. I think the crew up there is starting set up tomorrow, beside all the pre-festival work that's already taken place.

    We're getting dumped on here in Philly as well. I've already built an ark and ready to load 2x2 for a ride down stream!

    Regardless of weather, we're going to be there. Rented a house boat, so I see us getting wet no matter what, just curious of the trail conditions?

  46. #46
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    How is it there?

    Let's hear!!! I'm on the fence over here on Long Island, really, really, really want to go but don't want to drive 12 hours round-trip for minimal riding.

    Locals???

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickadee
    Let's hear!!! I'm on the fence over here on Long Island, really, really, really want to go but don't want to drive 12 hours round-trip for minimal riding.

    Locals???
    Word, cuz. Thats a mad long drive just to drink in the woods. What's poppin PA?

  48. #48
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    I am also in Philly and we are getting hammered with Rain. So far no cancellation on the Dirtfest website or FB page.

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    Getting hammered sotheast of Raystown in Mercersburg, Pa. Im still optimistic that the trails will hold up.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by yossarian
    Word, cuz. Thats a mad long drive just to drink in the woods. What's poppin PA?
    Although, next to riding, drinking in the woods, with boys, is one of my favorite things to do...and I just wrapped up a kick ass year of nursing school...this is starting to sound like the PERFECT way to celebrate.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickadee
    Although, next to riding, drinking in the woods, with boys, is one of my favorite things to do...and I just wrapped up a kick ass year of nursing school...this is starting to sound like the PERFECT way to celebrate.
    We have plenty of beer and a fire pit Your in! lol

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickadee
    Although, next to riding, drinking in the woods, with boys, is one of my favorite things to do...and I just wrapped up a kick ass year of nursing school...this is starting to sound like the PERFECT way to celebrate.
    Look for this dude, I'll be drinking with him. That cut is TIGHT !
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickadee
    Let's hear!!! I'm on the fence over here on Long Island, really, really, really want to go but don't want to drive 12 hours round-trip for minimal riding.

    Locals???
    The world's gonna end on Saturday anyways - may as well just go. Get a few rides and beers in before what, 11am when the earthquakes start?

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuzilla
    The world's gonna end on Saturday anyways - may as well just go. Get a few rides and beers in before what, 11am when the earthquakes start?
    True dat. I'll bring a bible and the Bourbon.


    What sayeth God about Allegrippis, geared or singlespeed?

  55. #55
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    None of this is sounding good although our redneck bud and his mullet cut have things getting a lil steamy over here....

  56. #56
    Chilling out
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickadee
    None of this is sounding good although our redneck bud and his mullet cut have things getting a lil steamy over here....
    At last, SOMEBODY has the right spirit. Phew.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickadee
    None of this is sounding good although our redneck bud and his mullet cut have things getting a lil steamy over here....

    **Note to self** must grow mullet in the next two days.........

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickadee
    None of this is sounding good although our redneck bud and his mullet cut have things getting a lil steamy over here....
    What's in his mouth? It's the longest skinniest smoke I've ever seen.

  59. #59
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    ?????????????????????????????
    Any word on the conditions from anyone at Raystown for this weekend yet? There has to be at least one person on here that can give us some kind of an update. Still have not seen anything on FB or on the website. For the people that are planning to leave early tomorrow morning(like us) it would be great to know what's goin on!
    It has been an absolute monsoon today in the Reading/Lancaster area, if it has rained like this all day at Raystown, I can only imagine what the trail conditions are gonna be like.

  60. #60
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    A group of us will also be heading down tomorrow morning from upstate, NY. Also wondering what vendors are usually there? Do they sell gear/equipment or is it primarily food vendors? I didn't see anything posted on the website...

  61. #61
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    The weather is pretty apocalyptic here in Philly also. It's been raining daily since Saturday! WTF, maybe the doomsday predictors finally got it right? In any case, I still going to come down, one day late. Hopefully the sun and plants can toss some of that water back up to the heavens.
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  62. #62
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    Anybody know if there's any chance of showing up and grabbing enough space for a 2 man tent? Me and a friend may be showing up last minute for Saturday, and it would be sweet if we could stay Friday night.

  63. #63
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    Got Damn! Rain back in the forecast for Sunday! We are SOL and SFD (so f***ing damned). Too late to build an ark, so the wife and I will be making unicorn costumes tonight.
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  64. #64
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    The trails dry fast and there was no rain at Raystown today. I was out there this afternoon and it looks like the trails should be good on Friday, primo by Saturday.

  65. #65
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    NOW you tell me!!!! I already made my decision to stay put, don't want to rip up your trails any more than I want a bunch of dudes from PA ripping up mine.

    There's always next year, I hope...I can only hope Mr. Redneck-Mullet signs up and get a spot right next to him...business in the front....PAAAAARTY in the back!!!!!!!!

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by chickadee
    NOW you tell me!!!! I already made my decision to stay put, don't want to rip up your trails any more than I want a bunch of dudes from PA ripping up mine.
    Looks like I spoke to soon anyway. It ended up raining last night and is still raining this morning. But, Saturday looks dry.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by babbalanja
    Looks like I spoke to soon anyway. It ended up raining last night and is still raining this morning. But, Saturday looks dry.
    Go-ji-raaaa!!!

    So that wasn't sunshine you were blowing up my arse? Was it radioactive fire? No wonder it burned.
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  68. #68
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    Cost for spectators?

    Is there any cost just to show up as a spectator and hang out? Can't bring the bike with me this time boo!

  69. #69
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    if it has rained like this all day at Raystown, I can only imagine what the trail conditions are gonna be like.

    Grippis holds up to the weather nicely, especially this time of year. No worries.

  70. #70
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    The rain should stop tonight. Tomorrow will be cloudy with wet,slippery and slow trails. Wake up Sunday and pack your camping gear up in the rain. Don't sound like fun to me. Then again,if you drink enough beer you could think you're having a GREAT time. LOL

    Bummer, I so wanted to go.

  71. #71
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    I was out there today, before the sun came out, and the only trail that was really muddy was Eagle (but only in a few spots). The forecast for tomorrow is calling for sun, so If it doesn't rain tonight, the trails will be relatively dry but tacky (i.e. fast) on Saturday and Sunday.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by frackit
    Is there any cost just to show up as a spectator and hang out? Can't bring the bike with me this time boo!
    I'm pretty sure you're supposed to pay even if you're just going to check out the vendors and events. But, if you can't take your bike there are plenty there to demo.

  73. #73
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    I had a great weekend, trails were good, beer was good...

  74. #74
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    Awesome time this year, trails were insane! Wyatt, thought I'd run into you for sure. Bike toss was pretty fun to watch and the beer was great. Best was Rays Revenge, then going down Osprey to Hydro. My legs are gonna be hurtin for a little while for sure...

  75. #75
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    To echo the previous two posts: DirtFest was a great time. Eagle was the only boggy trail. The rest were perfect. I would like to add that besides the trails and beer, the pulled pork and band were also very good. Two big ol' thumbs up.
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Ray
    Awesome time this year, trails were insane! Wyatt, thought I'd run into you for sure. Bike toss was pretty fun to watch and the beer was great. Best was Rays Revenge, then going down Osprey to Hydro. My legs are gonna be hurtin for a little while for sure...
    Bummer I didn't see you there, I agree with your choice of trails, it was also good to ride eagle again. also agree with buddhak about the pulled pork...
    Last edited by wyatt79m; 05-22-2011 at 08:08 PM.

  77. #77
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    =chickadeeThere's always next year, I hope...I can only hope Mr. Redneck-Mullet signs up and get a spot right next to him...business in the front....PAAAAARTY in the back!!!!!!!!
    Mullet man partied like it was 1999. He stayed at the 7 points campground with a camper. Only a few minutes to the trailhead, high dry ground, big level lots, BBQ pit, and hot showers. He will do the same next year since the camping sites at the fest looked a little shanty.

    Trails were great and different than what we're used to, very long and rolling. They weren't crowded and the mud was minimal despite the rain the whole way there.

  78. #78
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    I want to say this-

    To the gentleman who put the fake rubber snake in the porta-pot.... genius, pure genius.
    *Applause*

    The fact that you had the forethought to pack a rubber snake... I mean seriously, I'm packing thinking about shock pump, wallet, cell phone not rubber snakes! LOL

    You have set the bar my friend, mighty high I might add. I'm planning my pranks for Dirtfest 2012 now.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    To echo the previous two posts: DirtFest was a great time. Eagle was the only boggy trail. The rest were perfect. I would like to add that besides the trails and beer, the pulled pork and band were also very good. Two big ol' thumbs up.

    Great Weekend, I agree! The trails were better there then a dry day in August here!

  80. #80
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    Excellent weekend! Our group from Upstate New York thoroughly enjoyed the smooth, flowy trails, which were much dryer than the trails around here, despite all the rain. Everyone was incredibly friendly and we all can't wait to come back next year!

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxRedbaronxX
    I want to say this-

    To the gentleman who put the fake rubber snake in the porta-pot.... genius, pure genius.
    *Applause*

    The fact that you had the forethought to pack a rubber snake... I mean seriously, I'm packing thinking about shock pump, wallet, cell phone not rubber snakes! LOL

    You have set the bar my friend, mighty high I might add. I'm planning my pranks for Dirtfest 2012 now.
    Yup - I did a double take on that myself and thought the same thing. Didn't hear any ladies come screamin out of there so tough crowd eh?

  82. #82
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    Here's a view from the top (I caught a tree, I did; GEORGE). Trails on the West side (Stony/Buck) were my favorite.


  83. #83
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    The trails were in great condition, a little bit of rain on Sunday didn't keep us off the trails. As someone who has never been to a Mountain Biking Fest before, when is the next one, and where is it. I thought this was epicly awesome. I need more.

  84. #84
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    How were the campsites? Was there enough room between tents to have a campfire?

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbeck
    How were the campsites? Was there enough room between tents to have a campfire?
    Not everyone was balling like PMBA, but our group campsite was on like Tron. Bonfire, lake side views, good proximity to the water pump, and within striking distance of the Cadillac Port-a-Potty at the DirtRag HQ (talk about biting the hand feeds...) Level campsites were probably hard to come by at Susquehanock, though.
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  86. #86
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    Alright, who packed the rubber snake? Because I now have totally forgotten about mullet-head and have my sight set on you, I love a good prankster.

    Next year, next year.............

  87. #87
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    Anybody know the guy who had the wood fired pizza oven down at the campsites near the lake (sites 14 or 16m I think). I need plans.

  88. #88
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    I came down with a group from the Boston, MA area and we rented a houseboat from Seven Points Marina. What a great time! The trails were incredibly fun and so wasn't having a houseboat with a hot tub and slide. We parked the boat right next to the Hydro loop on Sunday and did some night loops. FuN FuN FuN!!! Thanks to all that made those awesome trails and to Dirt Rag for hosting the event!

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DC_Bunkster View Post
    Anybody know the guy who had the wood fired pizza oven down at the campsites near the lake (sites 14 or 16m I think). I need plans.
    That was Adam from the DirtRag crew...and the pizzas were damn tastey!
    A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. - Winston Churchill

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