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  1. #1
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    Clear Trails at Moon Lake

    Yesterday evening Dave and I did a night leaf-blowing session; used 2 back pack blowers.

    Cleared Natures Way 1 & 2, Deacon, All of 8, T-Rex 1 & 2, Ledgeview, Screamer and Mo-Zee..

    Trails should be fun to ride.. we ran out of gas, so we couldn't get to the other trails, but it's a start.

    Have fun!

    Amy

  2. #2
    trail addict
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    Quote Originally Posted by amysue135
    Yesterday evening Dave and I did a night leaf-blowing session; used 2 back pack blowers.

    Cleared Natures Way 1 & 2, Deacon, All of 8, T-Rex 1 & 2, Ledgeview, Screamer and Mo-Zee..

    Trails should be fun to ride.. we ran out of gas, so we couldn't get to the other trails, but it's a start.

    Have fun!

    Amy
    Yeah, very fun to ride. I was there a week or two ago and it was great riding on the cleared trails.. a lot of you guys do a great job at keeping that place fun to ride! I don't get there often, but when I do it is always a nice change of pace.

    Thanks
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  3. #3
    Did you ever have ham?
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    Clear Trails at Moon Lake

    Thanks, Amy and Dave...and everyone else that helps out up at the Moon!!! It is all very appreciated and makes the Moon what it is!!! Have a great day, everyone and hope to see you on the trails!!!
    Waging war on my pedals every chance I get!!!

  4. #4
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    Not sure if leaf blowing is the best for the trails, I think it helps erode the trails. those leaves that get blown off are needed for erosion control. Water always follows the path of least resistance, so when it rains the water goes right down the trail. the just my 2 cents, was wondering if anyone else felt this way.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mt.Pulaski
    Not sure if leaf blowing is the best for the trails, I think it helps erode the trails. those leaves that get blown off are needed for erosion control. Water always follows the path of least resistance, so when it rains the water goes right down the trail. the just my 2 cents, was wondering if anyone else felt this way.

    I see it opposite. The leaves keep the ground wet - no leaves means the ground can dry out that much faster and dry dirt tolerates abuse MUCH better than wet and/or muddy dirt. Properly designed trails should already have water runoff/side slope etc. taken into consideration BEFORE they are built (as are the trails at Moon Lake) so leaves aren't "needed" for erosion control - not like they really do much anyway to protect the dirt either. Alot of the trails that I ride in NEPA are either leaf blown/raked in the fall and/or early spring and not only have I not noticed any adverse effects of it, but they are much easier to follow.....

  6. #6
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    Ooops! I forgot I wanted to say THANK YOU for the time/effort/gas to EVERYONE who puts in the time to do trail work!! Thanks again!!!

  7. #7
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    Thank you for the leaf blowing help, it makes the trails so much more fun to ride when you can see the obstacles on the ground, and heck being able to see the trail at night makes for a more enjoyable ride.
    Thanks
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  8. #8
    ganginwood
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    Quote Originally Posted by mt.Pulaski
    Not sure if leaf blowing is the best for the trails, I think it helps erode the trails. those leaves that get blown off are needed for erosion control. Water always follows the path of least resistance, so when it rains the water goes right down the trail. the just my 2 cents, was wondering if anyone else felt this way.
    agreed.

    but moon lake is a state park, maybe it has to be handicap accessible?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Aswell
    the 5th poster, ganginwoods, is correct

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mt.Pulaski
    Not sure if leaf blowing is the best for the trails, I think it helps erode the trails. those leaves that get blown off are needed for erosion control. Water always follows the path of least resistance, so when it rains the water goes right down the trail. the just my 2 cents, was wondering if anyone else felt this way.
    The trails at Moon Lake have a lot of grade reversals.... And very hard rock in many areas. I don't think that erosion is a major consideration there because of the terrain. I certainly don't think leaf blowing is going to add measurably to any erosion.

    In other areas, it could be different. But I would still rather see trails cleared of leaves because they break down and leave organics behind. Most trails are much better-off with non-organic soil.

    There is also less-likely gonna be skidding because there is better visibility and wet spots will dry faster.

    I am all-for the leaf-blowing trail gnomes!
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mt.Pulaski
    Not sure if leaf blowing is the best for the trails, I think it helps erode the trails. those leaves that get blown off are needed for erosion control. Water always follows the path of least resistance, so when it rains the water goes right down the trail. the just my 2 cents, was wondering if anyone else felt this way.
    Removing leaf fall from the trails is best. When a trail is properly built the tread should have been taken down to the mineral soil. All organic matter should have been removed from the trail surface during construction. Mineral soil allows water to sheet off the trail instead of water soaking in. Not only does the leaf fall hold water on the trail not allowing it to properly dry between rain and snow melts, it breaks down over the winter and deposits organic matter which will continue to hold moisture on the trail. Look at the bottom of shallow grade reversals in the spring or in corners. There will often be a buildup of "mud", this is from the organic matter following water flow to that spot and then holding water. Sure this organic matter can be removed again, but not before some damage has been caused. A proactive approach to leaf removal is the better way.

    That said, I love that here in PA we have 4 distinct riding seasons. In the Fall the leaves add challenge to sections of trail that may have become boring over the summer as they hide the lines or slip under your wheels on climbs and in corners. So I understand why some riders protest leaf blowing or raking. But if you're looking out for the long term sustainability of trails it should be done.

  11. #11
    Rolling on 650b
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    Thanks!

  12. #12
    ganginwood
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    Quote Originally Posted by diggingtrail
    But if you're looking out for the long term sustainability of trails it should be done.
    prove it with something other than an opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Aswell
    the 5th poster, ganginwoods, is correct

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ganginwood
    prove it with something other than an opinion.

    Proof or no proof we're still going to do it. Hell, the fact that you don't seem to like it is reason enough to do it.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ganginwood
    prove it.
    Ordinarily the onus is on the prosecution pal.

  15. #15
    Spring! Spring! Spring!
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    And just because I'm often accused of this I'll point out that Moon Lake is a Luzerne County Park, not a SP.

    Which means really that it has even less funding support. ;^(

  16. #16
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    It's amazing how there is conflict in everything.. hell, just go ride the clear open trails everyone. I vote for leaf blowing, especially when we all ride these trails at night.

    K, that is all.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ganginwood
    prove it with something other than an opinion.
    I'm not going to get drawn into an argument about this. I could respond with rhetorical questions, show pictures that demonstrate what I was talking about, or go deep into sustainable trail building, but from your post I can gather that nothing but a published journal article will change your mind. There have been plenty of other threads here on MTBR about this subject.

    I based my post, which was a reply to another poster on here, upon my experience in trail construction, maintenance, and riding. I was not trying to be confrontational, I even acknowledged that I too like to ride in the leaves.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mt.Pulaski
    Not sure if leaf blowing is the best for the trails, I think it helps erode the trails. those leaves that get blown off are needed for erosion control. Water always follows the path of least resistance, so when it rains the water goes right down the trail. the just my 2 cents, was wondering if anyone else felt this way.
    DITTO!

  19. #19
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    Hopefully I'll be able to hit up the Moon this weekend and hopefully the temps wont be below freezing. Thanks for all the hard work up there.

  20. #20
    ganginwood
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    no conflict amy. regardless of their position, everyone applauds your effort.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Aswell
    the 5th poster, ganginwoods, is correct

  21. #21
    Run With The Wind
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    I have a question regarding trail building. If you are attempting to build a trail in a stand of lightly wooded deciduous trees and there is very little debris throughout the stand, how do you know where the trail is? I have found it easy to build identifiable trails in heavily wooded stands and very rocky terrain but have had a major challenge with areas where the trees are further apart. Beside leaf blowing the only option I see is placing cairns every few feet. I do not want to use paint, manufactured markers or branches placed parallel to the trail and I do not want to leaf blow anything. Any other ideas or recommendations would be appreciated.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ganginwood
    prove it with something other than an opinion.
    There is nothing to prove. A properly designed trail should discourage erosion by water flow. There are many ways to shed water from the trails (which leaves do not do).

    Some of the trails at moon lake are only partially benched, but they do have frequent grade reversals and very few "fall line" sections. They also have a very solid tread surface in most areas where a steeper grade is involved.

    The trails are not perfect, but there is no reason not to blow leaves if there are people willing to do it.

    Remove the chip from your shoulder.
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  23. #23
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    If anyone is interested Amy, Lynn, Stine and I will be "eroding" Moon Lake this evening! 6pm I may con Stine in to hammering!

  24. #24
    Spring! Spring! Spring!
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    Holy crap, someone called a ride.

    After daylight savings and everything.

    Weird.

  25. #25
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    Not only is it a ride! We are puttining on our extra knobby tires so we can erode more efficiently!

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