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  1. #1
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    While in Moab...Fruita?

    This will be our second trip to Moab. I know that there is a lifetime's worth of trails in Moab, but would it be worth it to daytrip to Fruita? What trails would you try to ride if you only had one day there? We are going at the end of April.

  2. #2
    KgB
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    hard to say

    what I consider a "good" trail may be your version of hell.
    It's a faily short drive if you've never been it's probably worth the trip.
    I've been inside too long.

  3. #3
    beer thief
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    Fruita should not be missed. If given only one day, I would spend it at the Kokopelli area.

  4. #4
    Loose Nut Behind d' Wheel
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    Quote Originally Posted by radair
    Fruita should not be missed. If given only one day, I would spend it at the Kokopelli area.
    I second the motion.

    ;^)
    Look where you want to go. This is as true in life as it is in mtbiking.

  5. #5
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    third

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky
    I second the motion.

    ;^)
    Agreed.
    Horsethief action.

  6. #6
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    Kgb

    The trails we usually look for are long and hard (I guess). On our last trip we focused on whatever the info sources said had long climbs/tech descents and lots of mileage. Shorter routes like Amasa Back and Porc were done in pairs on a single day. Most of the guys will be on 35 -45 lb. bikes. Our favorites included, Amasa, Porc, Gold Bar; things with nice technical descents and we aren't really afraid to climb to get them. We want to head out to Fruita but only have a day to spare so I want to hit the best trail I can @30-40 miles.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    This will be our second trip to Moab. I know that there is a lifetime's worth of trails in Moab, but would it be worth it to daytrip to Fruita? What trails would you try to ride if you only had one day there? We are going at the end of April.
    If you have the time I suggest two times in Fruita. One day at the Loma exit(Horsetheif, More fun) and the next at the Bookcliffs. If you need maps stop by Over The Edge Cycles. Great shop, great people.

  8. #8
    BSG
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    Wink Moab Road Fruita singletrack

    Moab trails= 4 wheel dr rds
    Fruita trails= Sweet single track
    You decide
    BSG

  9. #9
    KgB
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    If your on a SS

    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    The trails we usually look for are long and hard (I guess). On our last trip we focused on whatever the info sources said had long climbs/tech descents and lots of mileage. Shorter routes like Amasa Back and Porc were done in pairs on a single day. Most of the guys will be on 35 -45 lb. bikes. Our favorites included, Amasa, Porc, Gold Bar; things with nice technical descents and we aren't really afraid to climb to get them. We want to head out to Fruita but only have a day to spare so I want to hit the best trail I can @30-40 miles.
    I could be persueded to show you around.
    I've been inside too long.

  10. #10
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    what else to ride in fruita ?

    I've ridden all over the Moore fun area with the exception of Mac ridge. (Moore fun was one of the coolest trails I've ridden in my whole life) I'm sure there are other trails worth checking out in the area but what are they ?

  11. #11
    BSG
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    ... and if we just ... rd 18

    rd 18, in the book cliffs has enough great trails to keep you busy for a day or two. Dont miss Zippity do da, Chutes and ladders and Joes ridge. All of them have some tech sections but also super fun fast singletrack.
    BSG

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    Fruita's chicken story

    I agree with the above ride suggestions and would only add not to head out for the Rabbit Valley rides. The day I rode there the place was full of dirt bikers.vrrrmmm,vrrrmmm,vrmmmm!

    OTS-Who here knows about Fruita's well known, Mike the headless chicken?
    A customer gave me a bottle of the famed wine last week
    T-III
    If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is definitely not for you.

  13. #13
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    One thing - about your bikes...

    People are mentioning lots o great Fruita trails, but I have a concern: you say that you and your friends are riding 35-45 pound bikes. I'm guessing that means serious trail and freeride bikes.

    While the Mac area DOES have some great trails most of them are really suited to XC style bikes - there are better trails to ride if you want to slug your heavier bikes up hill. "More Fun" will be the exception in the Mac area, and while a bit of a grunt up, is a great fast rip down.

    My recomendations for bigger bikes would be:

    "Flight of Icarus"
    "More fun"
    Bunch of stuff in the Grand Junction area like Eagle's wing and the Ribbon.

    Those trails are much more big-bike friendly. You probably don't want to be riding around the book cliffs on FR bikes (Zippity and Joe's ridge might be a bit of an exception).

    I'm sure that there is more stuff being developed: Canfield Bros. are based in Grand Junction, so I would imagine that there is active FR/DH oriented trail development in the area too.

    Just my opinion for what it's worth. I'm sure the Fruita people will jump in here too and give you their opinions...
    Noel Buckley
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    Instead of PMs, please contact me here.

  14. #14
    TJ.
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    Give the Edge Loop a shot with heavy bikes,

    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    The trails we usually look for are long and hard (I guess). On our last trip we focused on whatever the info sources said had long climbs/tech descents and lots of mileage. Shorter routes like Amasa Back and Porc were done in pairs on a single day. Most of the guys will be on 35 -45 lb. bikes. Our favorites included, Amasa, Porc, Gold Bar; things with nice technical descents and we aren't really afraid to climb to get them. We want to head out to Fruita but only have a day to spare so I want to hit the best trail I can @30-40 miles.
    I would try the Edge Loop. Yeah, It has a buttload of climbing. Once at the top by the pump station. Look out. What an awesome descent. It would be a good loop for heavy bikes.
    Enjoy the burn.....He he he.

    TJ
    www.gvii.net/hundtoft

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by redranger
    If you have the time I suggest two times in Fruita. One day at the Loma exit(Horsetheif, More fun) and the next at the Bookcliffs. If you need maps stop by Over The Edge Cycles. Great shop, great people.
    Over the Edge Cycles, great shop except that they did a terrible job packing and shipping my bike on my way back to San Jose. My bike top tube was scratch because the guy forgot to secure the seat post, so it was rattling inside. Is the only shop in town, so you are stuck with it good or bad. Fruita is great! You will definitely run out of stuff to ride in a couple of days if you are a beginner. If you like eating out and having good food, you will like the food in Moab better.
    There is a new singletrack in Moab that I want to try "Sovereign", if you get sick of the jeep roads. Iíll be in Moab in May I canít wait.
    Kley

  16. #16
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    excellent advice

    Quote Originally Posted by mcgrupp
    and would only add not to head out for the Rabbit Valley rides.
    Yeah, Rabbit Valley sucks big time.

  17. #17
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    pig bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by knollybikes.com
    You probably don't want to be riding around the book cliffs on FR bikes (Zippity and Joe's ridge might be a bit of an exception).
    Every time I see Darth Vaders on engineless motorcycles in the Bookcliffs I have to laugh. Body armor and long travel on a-technical trails are that funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noel
    I'm sure that there is more stuff being developed: Canfield Bros. are based in Grand Junction, so I would imagine that there is active FR/DH oriented trail development in the area too.
    The FR/DH oriented people here are worthless. They don't participate in any legal trailwork, but do enjoy riding off-trail and building illegal spur tails all over the place. There is a new FR trail proposed, but apparently they can't get anyone from their ranks to help build it properly. It's a sad joke.

  18. #18
    Canfield Brothers
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    "The FR/DH oriented people here are worthless. They don't participate in any legal trailwork, but do enjoy riding off-trail and building illegal spur tails all over the place. There is a new FR trail proposed, but apparently they can't get anyone from their ranks to help build it properly. It's a sad joke."

    JD
    It is people like you that are giving bikers a bad names. I rode the lunch loop trails yesterday and there where multiple places that had been rocked and logged to prevent a nice jump, on trail, to be ruined as well as actual trail being routed to a two year old line that was removed two years ago. I don't see any reason why rocks can be moved and re-arranged to block a fun and more logical route of the "trail" and cause potential harm to unsuspecting riders, while the rocks that are placed by a "freerider" to add fun to the lame ass trail here are booby traped with the intent of harm. Is this not morally wrong?!!! To top it off my buddy crashed on a blind corner because someone placed rocks and logs, in what "was the trail", but for some reason is no longer the trail. ??? What is going on here!

    JD , have you taken an active role in helping the biking comunity? Do you have any input that would be possitive and promote multiple trail users equal access and enjoyment? I have been involved in SLC trail work and feel I have contrubuted in a positive way! Since moving to GJ I have seen nothing but xc riders and there obsurd intent to limit FR and DH trail use. There is no need to be harhing my mello - beeeaaaach!

  19. #19
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    Oh yea - that FR trail you refer to is just a glorified xc trail. You still have to pedal to the top so why would a downhiller or FR person want to help build that? We already have hundreds of miles of xc, but NO DOWNHILL! I gave my input - "make it all downhill" but what do I know. Pedal-fiesta.org
    Keep your ****ty boring trails. I'm going to T-Ride

  20. #20
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    Idea! If you visit Fruita ...

    ... watch out for the goathead thorns. They are thick in the vacant lots in Fruita (town). No one warned my son and I and we picked up dozens of them while riding around town waiting for the bike shop to open. They cost us a couple hours of valuable time.

    Have fun!!

  21. #21
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    question

    Quote Originally Posted by elder_mtber
    ... watch out for the goathead thorns. They are thick in the vacant lots in Fruita (town). No one warned my son and I and we picked up dozens of them while riding around town waiting for the bike shop to open. They cost us a couple hours of valuable time.
    What I want to know is why it took "a couple of hours" to fix a few flat tires?

  22. #22
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    worthless

    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike
    JD
    It is people like you that are giving bikers a bad names. I rode the lunch loop trails yesterday and there where multiple places that had been rocked and logged to prevent a nice jump, on trail, to be ruined as well as actual trail being routed to a two year old line that was removed two years ago.I don't see any reason why rocks can be moved and re-arranged to block a fun and more logical route of the "trail" and cause potential harm to unsuspecting riders, while the rocks that are placed by a "freerider" to add fun to the lame ass trail here are booby traped with the intent of harm. Is this not morally wrong?!!! To top it off my buddy crashed on a blind corner because someone placed rocks and logs, in what "was the trail", but for some reason is no longer the trail. ??? What is going on here!

    JD , have you taken an active role in helping the biking comunity? Do you have any input that would be possitive and promote multiple trail users equal access and enjoyment? I have been involved in SLC trail work and feel I have contrubuted in a positive way! Since moving to GJ I have seen nothing but xc riders and there obsurd intent to limit FR and DH trail use. There is no need to be harhing my mello - beeeaaaach!
    A perfect example of a cluelessness. Thank you for sharing. We'll see you out on the trail and then be sure to try and get in my face in person as well. It'll be just as funny.

  23. #23
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    don't you mean

    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike
    Oh yea - that FR trail you refer to is just a glorified xc trail. You still have to pedal to the top so why would a downhiller or FR person want to help build that? We already have hundreds of miles of xc, but NO DOWNHILL! I gave my input - "make it all downhill" but what do I know. Pedal-fiesta.org
    Keep your ****ty boring trails. I'm going to T-Ride
    You're going to "coast", not ride.

  24. #24
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    a challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike
    I rode the lunch loop trails yesterday and there where multiple places that had been rocked and logged to prevent a nice jump, on trail, to be ruined as well as actual trail being routed to a two year old line that was removed two years ago. I don't see any reason why rocks can be moved and re-arranged to block a fun and more logical route of the "trail" and cause potential harm to unsuspecting riders, while the rocks that are placed by a "freerider" to add fun to the lame ass trail here are booby traped with the intent of harm.
    Since you are into illegally altering the trails here, why don't you tell us your name so we can have the BLM Ranger visit you with a citation to appear in Federal Court? It's called a Resource Violation and is accompanied by a fine as well.

    If you don't like the status quo here, move back to SLC.

  25. #25
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    endless downhill

    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike
    Oh yea - that FR trail you refer to is just a glorified xc trail. You still have to pedal to the top so why would a downhiller or FR person want to help build that? We already have hundreds of miles of xc, but NO DOWNHILL! I gave my input - "make it all downhill" but what do I know. Pedal-fiesta.org
    Keep your ****ty boring trails. I'm going to T-Ride
    PIST! I know where you can go get endless downhill action all day long! Not be bothered by all of us XC riders and never have to build any trail.
    Literally THOUSANDS of miles of trail for you and your hucker friends.
    It's called "your local ski area"

    ps. Just leave our ****ty boring trails to the us. We can take care of them.
    If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is definitely not for you.

  26. #26
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    Let me make a observation. JD, you have never riden a DH bike have you! If you had you would know that it is not a lazy mans sport. Racing you pedal nearly the entire way. Riding all the trails in GJ require a huge amout of pedaling so how can you say that all we do is coast? I'm not the one that is bothered by xc riders. I ride xc, road BMX you name it. I love to ride period, my point is why can't we have trails that let everyone have fun and not feel the need to bash on our own community? I ride for the same reason as anyone, to have fun and get a workout, yes even when I DH. Have fun, stay on the trail and if there is a jump, hit it! Don't stop and tear it down.
    And by the way I'm not building trail, not modifying your trails, I'm making the observation that someone is destroying the fun parts of the trails and causing potential harm by placing logs and rocks. This is the problem and I have been observing the trail changes on a weekly basis. It is unacceptable for non authorized people to be altering the existing trail to limit the user groups that would want to ride there. I don't care if your spandy if that far up your arse, you don't have the right to tell me that I can't use these trails, even if they are becoming more and more lame because of trail modifiers like yourself - JD!

    JD
    "We'll see you out on the trail and then be sure to try and get in my face in person as well"
    Are you threatening me?????

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgrupp
    PIST! I know where you can go get endless downhill action all day long! Not be bothered by all of us XC riders and never have to build any trail.
    Literally THOUSANDS of miles of trail for you and your hucker friends.
    It's called "your local ski area"
    Could you please list there resorts that have thousands of miles of trails? Maybe I am unaware of them but I only know of a couple resorts in CO that have service.

  28. #28
    FM
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    Wow, great discussion! I'm inspired by your open-mindedness.

    Seriously, I'll be in the fruita area soon, but your post is scaring me. I only have one bike, it's 37lbs, perfect for local riding, but it seems that I will be laughed at in fruita. The weight never bothers me when climbing... it's just a bike.

    What happened to the good 'ol days when people only laughed because they were riding their bikes on trails and having fun? I guess my bike isn't light enough for fruita.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.D.
    Every time I see Darth Vaders on engineless motorcycles in the Bookcliffs I have to laugh. Body armor and long travel on a-technical trails are that funny.



    The FR/DH oriented people here are worthless. They don't participate in any legal trailwork, but do enjoy riding off-trail and building illegal spur tails all over the place. There is a new FR trail proposed, but apparently they can't get anyone from their ranks to help build it properly. It's a sad joke.

  29. #29
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    I wouldn't worry too much about it. JD is just a nameless internet entity. You shouldn't take his ranting seriously...

  30. #30
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I wouldn't worry too much about it. JD is just a nameless internet entity. You shouldn't take his ranting seriously...
    Totally agree!
    Most of the time the people you see on the trails in GJ are respectful if not downright nice. Shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to show you around! Moab too! I spend more time there than in my own backyard.

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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by J.D.
    What I want to know is why it took "a couple of hours" to fix a few flat tires?
    JD

    Had to fix 4 tires. Took us a long time to pick out all the goatheads. We had never before seen (or heard of) them. Now we know.

    I just hope my advice prevents a fellow mtb'er from going through the same experience.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D.
    The FR/DH oriented people here are worthless. They don't participate in any legal trailwork, but do enjoy riding off-trail and building illegal spur tails all over the place. There is a new FR trail proposed, but apparently they can't get anyone from their ranks to help build it properly. It's a sad joke.

    Yer pissin me off Jerry. I guess I'm part of the problem too? You need to lay off the broad statements about how every one who's different sucks. Freak.


    Once you get your 6" bike, yer gonna come to the "dark side" and you can be a "Darth Vader" as well. Maybe not but I just had to say that.
    Last edited by singletrack; 03-31-2004 at 05:28 PM.

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    hahaha

    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike
    Let me make a observation. JD, you have never riden a DH bike have you!
    You don't know anything about me, so keep pissing into the wind.

    It is unacceptable for non authorized people to be altering the existing trail
    If you understood that, you and your pals wouldn't be making all of the illegal spur trails and altering the original lines of the trails you only started riding "two years" ago. The hypocrisy is amazing.

    I don't care if your spandy if that far up your arse, you don't have the right to tell me that I can't use these trails, even if they are becoming more and more lame because of trail modifiers like yourself - JD!
    You don't have the right to abuse any trails or recreation area, which you and your selfish pals seem to think is your right. When the local area BLM manager hikes the Lunch Loop area (which she does often) and sees the damage you and your kind are creating, it will only get every mountain biker banned from using those trails.

    Are you threatening me?????
    Don't flatter yourself. You're barely worth farting at.

    By the way, why don't you tell us all your name, or are you just another internet courage only kind of guy?

  34. #34
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    exceptions

    Quote Originally Posted by singletrack
    Yer pissin me off Jerry. I guess I'm part of the problem too? You need to lay off the broad statements about how every one who's different sucks. Freak.
    There are exceptions to every rule, Joel. We talked about that when you showed up for trailwork, unlike all of the shuttle monkeys we saw in the parking lot afterwards. In fact, one of the trailwork people (not anyone you know) made a comment about the freerider showing up late and I stood up for you, telling them that at least you showed up. It made them admit their statement was uncalled for.

    BTW, I didn't mention any broads.

  35. #35
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    Jd you are a big waste of my time! You didn't even read what I had to say. You just want to fight hu! Put your cave man club away and try growing a brain.

  36. #36
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    All Your Basor Belong To Us...

    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike
    Jd you are a big waste of my time! You didn't even read what I had to say. You just want to fight hu! Put your cave man club away and try growing a brain.
    He's a waste of your time, but he didn't read what you wrote? Huh?

    Get involved in the trails in Junction/Fruita or stop b itching about the trail trails in Junction/Fruita. It's really very simple.

    Don't like the DH/FR representation among the local trail designers, builders or maintainers? Unless you're involved and representing them, STFU.

    It's really quite simple. Simply because you helped with trails in Slat Lake doesn't give you trail building king status in Junction/Fruita. Why would you assume otherwise?

    How many trailbuilding days have you shown up for? How many hours of TM have you volunteered for? Not in SLC, but in the area in which you currently reside.

    Ken
    Last edited by Ken in KC; 04-01-2004 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Couldn't say b itching

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    He's a waste of your time, but he didn't read what you wrote? Huh?

    Get involved in the trails in Junction/Fruita or stop b itching about the trail trails in Junction/Fruita. It's really very simple.

    Don't like the DH/FR representation among the local trail designers, builders or maintainers? Unless you're involved and representing them, STFU.

    It's really quite simple. Simply because you helped with trails in Slat Lake doesn't give you trail building king status in Junction/Fruita. Why would you assume otherwise?

    How many trailbuilding days have you shown up for? How many hours of TM have you volunteered for? Not in SLC, but in the area in which you currently reside.

    Ken
    I am involved with COPMOBA and in personal contact with Pat Kennedy. Although I am not a board member I have had input on what the local area needs for DH/FR and given my two cents on how this type of trail needs to be built. So yes I am involved, thanks for asking. I keep stating that I am not involved with any illegal spur trail building and have never clamed to be a "trail building king ". I simply have stated that I am not a newby to trail work and that I have many days under my belt. It is very easy for you to point fingers but what have you done to better you cycling community? I work and play bikes and feel I have given a huge amount to bettering the cycling community and try to do so in a positive and legal manner. Non of these hateful rants have given me any modivation to come help trailbuild. If there is anyone out there that would like the help and can support it with possitive additudes please post. If you don't have something constructive to say, you know what to do!

  38. #38
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    Lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike
    I am involved with COPMOBA and in personal contact with Pat Kennedy. Although I am not a board member I have had input on what the local area needs for DH/FR and given my two cents on how this type of trail needs to be built. So yes I am involved, thanks for asking. I keep stating that I am not involved with any illegal spur trail building and have never clamed to be a "trail building king ". I simply have stated that I am not a newby to trail work and that I have many days under my belt. It is very easy for you to point fingers but what have you done to better you cycling community? I work and play bikes and feel I have given a huge amount to bettering the cycling community and try to do so in a positive and legal manner. Non of these hateful rants have given me any modivation to come help trailbuild. If there is anyone out there that would like the help and can support it with possitive additudes please post. If you don't have something constructive to say, you know what to do!
    You're involved with COPMOBA, yet you're not inspired to come out and help them build trail? You offer advice in meetings on how things should be done, yet you don't come out and build trail?

    So you know Pat Kennedy and that makes you credible? I know Chris Vargas, but I don't claim to speak for the Warrior's Society. I know Pillip Keyes, but I don't claim to speak for NEMBA. What does knowing someone have to do with being involved with the organization?

    None of these hateful rants have inspired you to come build trail, but it's OK for you to offer this gem:

    "Oh yea - that FR trail you refer to is just a glorified xc trail. You still have to pedal to the top so why would a downhiller or FR person want to help build that? We already have hundreds of miles of xc, but NO DOWNHILL! I gave my input - "make it all downhill" but what do I know. Pedal-fiesta.org
    Keep your ****ty boring trails. I'm going to T-Ride"

    Is this what you call "giving your two cents"?

    What have I done to better my cycling community? Now this is funny. The answer is, nothing. Nothing at all.

    So your "positive attitude" about keeping a ****ty, boring trail is OK to post, yet others who don't agree with your approach are wrong?

    Ken

  39. #39
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    Way to put it to him Ken

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in KC
    You're involved with COPMOBA, yet you're not inspired to come out and help them build trail? You offer advice in meetings on how things should be done, yet you don't come out and build trail?

    So you know Pat Kennedy and that makes you credible? I know Chris Vargas, but I don't claim to speak for the Warrior's Society. I know Pillip Keyes, but I don't claim to speak for NEMBA. What does knowing someone have to do with being involved with the organization?

    None of these hateful rants have inspired you to come build trail, but it's OK for you to offer this gem:

    "Oh yea - that FR trail you refer to is just a glorified xc trail. You still have to pedal to the top so why would a downhiller or FR person want to help build that? We already have hundreds of miles of xc, but NO DOWNHILL! I gave my input - "make it all downhill" but what do I know. Pedal-fiesta.org
    Keep your ****ty boring trails. I'm going to T-Ride"

    Is this what you call "giving your two cents"?

    What have I done to better my cycling community? Now this is funny. The answer is, nothing. Nothing at all.

    So your "positive attitude" about keeping a ****ty, boring trail is OK to post, yet others who don't agree with your approach are wrong?

    Ken
    This person has obviously been a problem since he emigrated here, altering existing trails to suit his needs and then when authorized people such as myself and Kevin amongst many others return the trail back to its original line, he cries foul. That and the fact doesn't even have the gonads to identify himself should tell us all what he's really made of. Maybe he's trying to hide to protect his superhero identity...

    When you find youself in danger,

    When you're threatened by a stranger,

    When it looks like you will take a lickin',

    (buk, buk, buk, buk)

    There is someone waiting,

    Who will hurry up and rescue you,

    just Callllllllll for Super Chicken!

    (buk, ack!)

    Fred, if you're afraid you'll have to overlook it,

    Besides you knew the job was dangerous when you took it

    (buk, ack!)

    He will drink his super sauce

    And throw the bad guys for a loss

    And he will bring them in alive and kickin'

    (buk, buk, buk, buk)

    There is one thing you should learn

    When there is no one else to turn to

    Callllllllll for Super Chicken!

    (buk, buk, buk, buk)

    Callllllllll for Super Chicken!

    (buk, ack!)

  40. #40
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    Ken, I think you need a drink.

    Don't like the DH/FR representation among the local trail designers, builders or maintainers? Unless you're involved and representing them, STFU.

    You are letting your biases show. I think this guy has shown that hes involved to a point, but he admitted hes not on the COPMOBA board, so obviously he is not representing them, yet he still does have the right to speak his mind. That STFU **** is out of line. As GJ resident who rides a big bike with gears he just got called "worthless" by JD. I'd be speaking my mind too, regardless of my involvement with local trail folks.

    In general, yeah its plain as day that us 'Darth Vader' types proably don't contribute to legal trail work in the numbers that XC riders do. Thats because: 1.There just aren't that many of us. and 2. It gets frustrating to continue to go out and build trails that we wouldn't want to ride on. 3. Honestly there is a lot of FR trailbuilding going on legal and illegal and it does take a lot of work, so we're out there...just in a different spot.
    I have no idea where I'm going with this, but I could also go on ranting for hours...but I do know this. This lack of a shared vision is obviously a problem in the general mtb community that needs to be addressed. IMBA is starting to, their last newsletter (Freeride edition)probably got a bunch of chammies in a bundle. Thats good. Pretending like the 'other' user group within our own group doesn't exist is nonsense and Flymybike is responding to that frustration. I don't know the details of the GJ scene or this particular trail, and JD is likely teeing up to tear me a new one, even though he saw me pedal my 45lb rig to the top of Wasatch Trail (3,000+) in T-ride, Vader up and disappear into the distance, so I'm gonna shut up now, but I certainly don't need anyone to tell me that.
    I really identify with you...SO MUCH.

    "Feelin stupid? I know I am."
    "You just have to forget everything you know about gravity."
    H. Simpson

  41. #41
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    No worries. Afterall, you hit the nail on the head with :

    it's just a bike.
    Will you stay on the trails?
    Will you leave the trails as you found them?
    Will you yield properly and appropriately?

    It's just common courtesy, most have it. If you answer yes (and I think most people would), then I don't care if you're on a Huffy.

  42. #42
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    I'm guessing I know who the former employee was.

  43. #43
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    What I really need is a hug....

    Quote Originally Posted by shabadu
    Ken, I think you need a drink.

    Don't like the DH/FR representation among the local trail designers, builders or maintainers? Unless you're involved and representing them, STFU.

    You are letting your biases show. I think this guy has shown that hes involved to a point, but he admitted hes not on the COPMOBA board, so obviously he is not representing them, yet he still does have the right to speak his mind. That STFU **** is out of line. As GJ resident who rides a big bike with gears he just got called "worthless" by JD. I'd be speaking my mind too, regardless of my involvement with local trail folks.

    In general, yeah its plain as day that us 'Darth Vader' types proably don't contribute to legal trail work in the numbers that XC riders do. Thats because: 1.There just aren't that many of us. and 2. It gets frustrating to continue to go out and build trails that we wouldn't want to ride on. 3. Honestly there is a lot of FR trailbuilding going on legal and illegal and it does take a lot of work, so we're out there...just in a different spot.
    I have no idea where I'm going with this, but I could also go on ranting for hours...but I do know this. This lack of a shared vision is obviously a problem in the general mtb community that needs to be addressed. IMBA is starting to, their last newsletter (Freeride edition)probably got a bunch of chammies in a bundle. Thats good. Pretending like the 'other' user group within our own group doesn't exist is nonsense and Flymybike is responding to that frustration. I don't know the details of the GJ scene or this particular trail, and JD is likely teeing up to tear me a new one, even though he saw me pedal my 45lb rig to the top of Wasatch Trail (3,000+) in T-ride, Vader up and disappear into the distance, so I'm gonna shut up now, but I certainly don't need anyone to tell me that.
    You and I violently agree regarding division among mountain bikers. Mountain biking is mountain biking, IMO. In fact, if you check out the 100th edition of Dirt Rag, you'll see exactly how I feel about this (for which I received a rash of s hit from other people).

    In order to me to change Jerry's mind about what he sees as a subgroup, that subgroup has to be willing to come to the table, be responsible and listen to those that have busted their ass for the past decade in order to enjoy the trails that they are currently riding. Jerry's opinion is based on the fact that many people riding bikes outside of the traditional XC trails seem to have their hand out and saying "give me my trails too". It's not that simple.

    Right or wrong, land managers perceptions of Challenge Trails are biased based on what they think, vs. reality. As you know Joe, it takes a loooooong time to establish credibility and trust with land managers. In order to create legal, sustainable Challenge trails, it's going to take time. Politics, polish, trust building time. Its not simply a matter of land managers turning a key and allowing Challenge trails on their land.

    Those currently involved with access and advocacy have their plates overfull. They don't have the time to focus on a trail system or approach for Challenge Trails if they're not interested in riding them. Those that want a particular type of trail must be intimately involved in helping develop them. Not you undwerstand, building them but all the thankless butt work that goes in to gaining access:

    - Meetings with polticians.
    - Meetings with lawyers.
    - Meetings with land mangers (and their lawyers)
    - Developing proposals
    - developing business plans for the trails.
    - Demonstrating paybacks and benefits for the land managers.
    - Signing labor cotnracts.
    - Blah, blah, blah.

    This is what it takes to gain access to trails. It takes longer with Challenge Trails because land managers, lawyers and politicians aren't familiar with them, and frankly many people who approach them for these types of trails haven't taken the (considerable) time to establish/develop the trust required to gain land access on which to design and build the trails.

    Simply showing up at meetings and offering opinions on how things "should be done" and then going home doesn't cut it. Calling an attempt by what are primarily XC rider at building a Challenge trail as a "****ty trail" in the breath as saying you're not doing enough for my style of riding AND not coming out for trail work (which helps establish your credibility among advocates currently working with land managers for access) doesn't do anything to gain the objective: Challenge Trails.

    So, this is what I mean when I say STFU, get involved and represent your local advocacy organization. You don't have to be on the Board to represent them. Simply by showing up to trail work days and adding your name to the list is representing them.

    We're working extremely hard to develop Challenge Trails in our area. We've even had one of our land managers purchase 90 acres of an abandoned rock quarry specifically for what they call an "Extreme Park" (I hate it when they call it this). We're going to help them design and build elevated trails, big drops (2'-15'), decent sized gaps, some sort of dual Slalom course, a trials course, a rock climbing wall and perhaps a BMX dirt park among other things. We've been written in to the Master Plan. But, we're still more than a year away from getting started. We still have legal concerns, Park and County Board approval and several months worth of work to do before we even begin to start building trails. The point being is that while I may be biased, the time involved in developing these types of trails is immense and requires much more than offering 2Ę worth of advice at a meeting and then getting frustrated.

    That's what I meant to say.

    Ken

  44. #44
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    Werd Ken.
    I really identify with you...SO MUCH.

    "Feelin stupid? I know I am."
    "You just have to forget everything you know about gravity."
    H. Simpson

  45. #45
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    OK boys, chill.

    Fly, if you are earnestly pursuing Pat's ear, good for you. That's a start. If you are not putting in rogue trails and altering existing trails, thank you. However, being a newcomer, you may not know the history and politics of the area. The history of the trail in the Lunch Loop area would be good for you to learn, so you could better understand why the long time locals are frustrated with free riders. Also, you need to know that Pat is not the only advocate and is relatively new at his post. There are lots of people that are worth contacting and diplomatically engaging in discussion. Also, if you really think that two cents is going to make anything happen, you're gravely mistaken. If you want a positive outcome, you have put positive energy into the situation.

    JD, I love ya, man, but you can't assume that he's "the guy." We all know a certain landmanager would love it if the mountainbike community kept the rifts going. It would be best to get the freeriders into the circle instead of chasing them away. Sometimes it's best to try and educate with diplomacy. The guy has obviously made an effort with Pat, so let's not lynch him just yet.

  46. #46
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    So, I guess the point is....

    .....that if you're going to Moab AND want to hit Fruita, then you may want to ensure that you have the right bike, gear and attitude with you. Also, maybe haul a pulaski in your camelback so you can clean up any debris that might be caused by a tire sliding down the trail.

    Now, I see why there are so many trail conflicts going on down there. Guys throwing labels at each other instead of embracing the differences in riding styles and extending common courtesy. Where I live, people on hardtails can do anything I can on my full-suspension bike and guys on FR rigs go out for all-day epics. Still one of my most humbling moments was a guy on an older Kona Caldera and an 80 mm fork (max) easily cleaning a granite slab as I was walking down it. Makes me glad to live in the PNW....where we have trail issues (like everywhere) but people, in general, extend courtesy to each other - regardless what type of bike they ride or what gear they have on. When folks (regardless of riding style) start to realize that bikers are viewed by the outside world as just "Bikers" whether they're doing a 10 foot drop or a 4k climb, then we'll be one step closer to showing other trail users (i.e. equestrians and hikers) that we're a force to be reckoned with. Until then, we're just a splintered group of half-wits....as people have displayed in some of these previous posts.

    BTW, I ride both XC and FR and I don't ever think I'd throw out the term "shuttle monkey"? I think that gives everyone a pretty good idea of your mindset/attitude. While I have and will continue to shuttle from time to time, I climb my FR bike whenever possible (since biking is my primary form of exercise), but certainly don't view folks that exclusively shuttle as moronic. It's their gig...I'm just glad folks are out on their bikes. Like you, if I see them doing something stupid on the trails, I let them know that it's not good for bikers as a whole....maybe you're just ineffective or lack persuasion because you come across as a pr*ck?

    Just curious.

    EB
    Last edited by ebxtreme; 04-01-2004 at 04:38 PM.

  47. #47
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    that you have the right bike, gear and attitude with you.
    I think you'll find that list here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...625#post111625

    Although, I didn't add the gear, I would want you to make sure you have a helmet, gloves, and lots of water (we're in a desert). Just as I wouldn't ask a guest to bring steak for a meal, I wouldn't ask a guest to do trailwork on vacation. However, I will reiterate what I said about staying on the trails and leaving them as you found them.
    Last edited by screampint; 04-01-2004 at 04:40 PM. Reason: tangled fingers

  48. #48
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    Yeeeowza!

    Quote Originally Posted by KgB
    I could be persueded to show you around.
    Now that'd be one bad a$$ mountainbiker on a 35-40lb SS lol

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by flymybike
    If you don't have something constructive to say, you know what to do!
    How...ironic.

    You've done a great job of perpetuating the lameass "DH/FR dood" stereotype.

    Congrats!

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by teamdicky
    This will be our second trip to Moab. I know that there is a lifetime's worth of trails in Moab, but would it be worth it to daytrip to Fruita? What trails would you try to ride if you only had one day there? We are going at the end of April.
    I got an information packet from www.fruita.org. Not a lot about trails but good contacts in the area. Great pictures on the folder....you guys got it made out there.
    Your bike can take you anywhere, anytime, over any terrain but, you have to force it to GK 2004. BB1, who started it?

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