View Poll Results: What's worse: poaching or littering?

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  • poaching is worse

    13 12.75%
  • littering is worse

    88 86.27%
  • who cares ya dork!

    1 0.98%
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  1. #1
    the bomb
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    what's worse: poaching or littering?

    Out on a local ride today. There's this little slice of singletrack. Maybe I'm not supossed to ride there. There's this sign, but I usually ride past it really fast, and I'm not quite sure what it says. Anyway.......

    So lets just say I'm poaching. Today I stop at the bench with a view, and what do I see - a half eaten bag of cheetos and a bunch of other trash. I carry it out, because I can't stand litter. I mean how hard is it to carry your crap with you when you leave. There are trash cans everywhere (it's a city park).

    I may poach from time to time, but I carry out what I bring and usually anthing I find that was left by others. So what do you think is worse?
    Womanhood ain't for sissies.- oldbroad

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    Out on a local ride today. There's this little slice of singletrack. Maybe I'm not supossed to ride there. There's this sign, but I usually ride past it really fast, and I'm not quite sure what it says. Anyway.......

    So lets just say I'm poaching. Today I stop at the bench with a view, and what do I see - a half eaten bag of cheetos and a bunch of other trash. I carry it out, because I can't stand litter. I mean how hard is it to carry your crap with you when you leave. There are trash cans everywhere (it's a city park).

    I may poach from time to time, but I carry out what I bring and usually anthing I find that was left by others. So what do you think is worse?
    Littering is worse, it's always an eyesore. Poaching may and should leave no trace.

  3. #3
    Drinker w/ Riding Problem
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    Litter Just Pisses me off!

    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    So what do you think is worse?
    You know in this age of awareness with nature and all it takes is just a little effort to through your sh!t away in a trash can and yet 70% morons around with this "out of sight. out of mind " mentality. "not my prob anymore" here in South Carolina it's a joke to drive down the hwy. so much sh!t.... even in the NC forest on the the service roads , beer cans, bottles, amazed at how much trash there is. pisses me off!

    I have been guilty of some really good poaches... and felt guilty afterwards...but most have been done by accident or had to take a a detour / shortcut for some reason or another.

  4. #4
    I'm how far behind?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    a half eaten bag of cheetos

    Sorry you lost me at the free cheetos -- some people have all the luck! What was the question again???
    Fatter than most.

  5. #5
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    Cool-blue Rhythm littering!!

    If you poach a trail, that usually means that the trail already exists.
    Litter didn't exist before, well, it existed.
    Litter is evidence. Proves that a poacher was there. "It was prolly one of those mountain bikers that doesn't respect the trail" is what one might hear.

  6. #6
    I like Squishy Bikes
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    Touch call

    Poaching can be much worse, it depends on the area poached.
    Slippery slope...I know
    Private Propery vs Metro Park vs Wildlife Area vs Wilderness Area.
    I do know its very bad when the Forest Service parks next to your truck!
    A dirty book is rarely dusty

  7. #7
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    Good job! nice!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Soloracer
    Sorry you lost me at the free cheetos -- some people have all the luck! What was the question again???
    very good.

    later, j

  8. #8
    Ride what you want!!
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    george
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  9. #9
    Glad to Be Alive
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    I hate litterers...they suck
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  10. #10
    Trail rider and racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    I hate litterers...they suck
    Ditto. It sucks. Be it a cigarette butt or a food wrapper it's disrespectful to the environment and generally inconsiderate.
    Trev!

  11. #11
    Keepin' it real since '74
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    Littering is definitely worse, but, here in Texas, there's no way in HELL I would poach a trail...too much private land. When you go on someone's property without permission down here, you run the risk of getting shot.

    The ecological surveys I do for work require me to be on LOTS of private land, and I have to make damn sure I have access. I've had guns pulled on me 3 times...not very enjoyable.
    "If God didn't want us to eat animals, He wouldn't have made them out of meat."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    So what do you think is worse?
    Littering. If I see someone throw trash out of their car like a bag of trash, NOT stuff like bannana peals or apple cores, If I can get their plate #'s I call the local PD and report them. Don't know if they ever follow up, but hey if just one A-hole gets a $1000 fine for being too damn lazy to wait till they get home and throw their crap away then it's worth it.

  13. #13
    the unvarnished nonsense
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    another example of "relativism"....

    I'm sorry, but I can't stand the rising tide of "relativism" in our current society. I believe that some things are simply black and white, despite what our media outlets would have us believe. Littering is wrong, period. Poaching is wrong, period. Picking up litter while poaching doesn't make the poaching relatively less wrong. Just my opinion.
    "Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall."
    -John Milton, Paradise Lost

  14. #14
    It's a Turner!
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    how about "defeatism". Some day, it's all gonna be developed anyway, so you may as well poach it and enjoy it now.

    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    I'm sorry, but I can't stand the rising tide of "relativism" in our current society. I believe that some things are simply black and white, despite what our media outlets would have us believe. Littering is wrong, period. Poaching is wrong, period. Picking up litter while poaching doesn't make the poaching relatively less wrong. Just my opinion.
    I didn't just drink the koolaid, I stuck my head in the punchbowl.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    I'm sorry, but I can't stand the rising tide of "relativism" in our current society. I believe that some things are simply black and white, despite what our media outlets would have us believe. Littering is wrong, period. Poaching is wrong, period. Picking up litter while poaching doesn't make the poaching relatively less wrong. Just my opinion.
    Wow you're right! Dammit that means i'm going to have to give up rape and murder....

    This guy has a point though, using litter to justify poaching a trail doesn't make you right and it doesn't help in getting trail access opened to trails. If you're gonna poach at least don't be disillusioned about it, you're doin a no-no. Alot of times there are really no reasons for some trails to be closed to mt. bikes, join an advocacy group in your area and get involved with getting those trails open instead of picking up trash when you're not supposed to be there....
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  16. #16
    the unvarnished nonsense
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    flawed logic...

    Quote Originally Posted by sirbikesalot
    how about "defeatism". Some day, it's all gonna be developed anyway, so you may as well poach it and enjoy it now.

    So, let's say there's someone that I strongly dislike. Someday, like everyone else that's ever walked the face of the earth, they will die. Therefore, I should just murder them now, right???

    I'm not trying to stir up a bunch of cr@p here, I was just expressing my opinion on the original question. I'm done. I've got to get busy practicing keeping my opinions to myself from now on.
    "Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall."
    -John Milton, Paradise Lost

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashedandburned
    Littering. If I see someone throw trash out of their car like a bag of trash, NOT stuff like bannana peals or apple cores, If I can get their plate #'s I call the local PD and report them. Don't know if they ever follow up, but hey if just one A-hole gets a $1000 fine for being too damn lazy to wait till they get home and throw their crap away then it's worth it.
    Why are banana peals and apple cores less of an eye sore? Does a coke can or bag from chips look worst than road kill? Throwing scrape food from your car attracks wildlife to the road, and BAM Bambi gets it...

    How about stuff like that on a trail, is it any better? Now you've attracked bears to a trail, big mean scary bears scaring little kids because they have been figured out that trails and trailhead have apple cores... BAM ranger gets the bear.

    Just something to think about when you think its ok because its just an apple core...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AscentCanada
    Why are banana peals and apple cores less of an eye sore? Does a coke can or bag from chips look worst than road kill? Throwing scrape food from your car attracks wildlife to the road, and BAM Bambi gets it...

    How about stuff like that on a trail, is it any better? Now you've attracked bears to a trail, big mean scary bears scaring little kids because they have been figured out that trails and trailhead have apple cores... BAM ranger gets the bear.

    Just something to think about when you think its ok because its just an apple core...

    Because I know that they'll be gone in a few days because they're biodegradeable. Plastic trash bag and diapers are not.

  19. #19
    the bomb
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    a million shades of grey

    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    I'm sorry, but I can't stand the rising tide of "relativism" in our current society. I believe that some things are simply black and white, despite what our media outlets would have us believe. Littering is wrong, period. Poaching is wrong, period. Picking up litter while poaching doesn't make the poaching relatively less wrong. Just my opinion.
    Just for the record, I don't entertain the notion that one trumps the other. It's just that littering, in my opinion, is a lot worse than riding a bicycle in the dirt. Was curious to see what others thought.
    Womanhood ain't for sissies.- oldbroad

  20. #20
    Probably drunk right now
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    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    Just for the record, I don't entertain the notion that one trumps the other. It's just that littering, in my opinion, is a lot worse than riding a bicycle in the dirt. Was curious to see what others thought.
    One is destructive to the environment and the other is an arbitrary rule. There's not much comparison.

    And Davis, it's not black and white. Your analogy is extreme, IMO. The comparison I wold use is the difference between driving 5 miles over the speed limit on the highway and assualting someone. Both are against the law but driving over the speed limit is far less harmful than punching someone in the face.

    Ken

  21. #21
    hari kari
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    Just for the record, I don't entertain the notion that one trumps the other. It's just that littering, in my opinion, is a lot worse than riding a bicycle in the dirt. Was curious to see what others thought.
    Just for the record pfunk, according to Websters, "a million shades of gray" is the text book definition of relativism. You might want to re-read davis' post. I think you missed the point, and by doing so made it that much stronger.

    Anywho, that being said, I'd never litter, but sometimes, every now and then, a girl's just gotta poach. My conscience rests easier when I do it early on week days with a bewildered "I'm everso lost" look on my face.

    It doesn't make it any less wrong, however.

  22. #22
    L1MEY
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    When I read the title of this thread I was thinking poaching = going onto private property and killing their pheasants! Now that would be pretty bad, and possibly worse than littering... but maybe not.

    IMO, just riding onto a trail on private property is nowhere near as bad as leaving rubbish all over the place. And what kind of freak pulls a gun on someone for walking/riding on their property anyway? People with guns make me nervous... and with good reason I think (but that is another thread entirely).

    Litter is just wrong. Last time I saw some hoodrat chucking litter out of their car window they got my high-beams in their mirrors. Who do they think is gonna clean it up? It's disgusting to see the amount of crap that blows around in the street just because some arsehole was too lazy to find a bin. I once had an argument with a woman in the street for throwing her chocolate bar wrapper on the floor 5 yards from a bin... of course she told me to F off (typical of the type of person who does that - probably the same person who would not bother to put their shopping cart back in the rack at the supermarket), but at least I tried. Biodegradable stuff is somewhat excusable as long as it's not dumped right in the middle of the pavement or something, but plastic takes thousands of years to decay rather than a couple of days. Add to that the fact that each year many animals and birds are killed after getting tangled up in plastic wrapping, fishing line etc. and you have an environmental disaster.

    I don't know what is wrong with people in countries like the UK and US... why do people here think it's okay to dump litter when people in other countries always tidy up? Last time I was on holiday in Austria I saw one piece of litter the whole time I was there (probably left by a British or American tourist). They had bins all over the place and everybody used them. There's no reason why it shouldn't be like that everywhere.

    - Jen.

  23. #23
    jrm
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    Al Bundy once said

    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    Out on a local ride today. There's this little slice of singletrack. Maybe I'm not supossed to ride there. There's this sign, but I usually ride past it really fast, and I'm not quite sure what it says. Anyway.......

    So lets just say I'm poaching. Today I stop at the bench with a view, and what do I see - a half eaten bag of cheetos and a bunch of other trash. I carry it out, because I can't stand litter. I mean how hard is it to carry your crap with you when you leave. There are trash cans everywhere (it's a city park).

    I may poach from time to time, but I carry out what I bring and usually anthing I find that was left by others. So what do you think is worse?
    "Its ONLY wrong if you get caught".....

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig
    I don't know what is wrong with people in countries like the UK and US... why do people here think it's okay to dump litter when people in other countries always tidy up? Last time I was on holiday in Austria I saw one piece of litter the whole time I was there (probably left by a British or American tourist). They had bins all over the place and everybody used them. There's no reason why it shouldn't be like that everywhere.

    - Jen.
    dont get me wrong i am not euro or japan bashing here, BUT

    with regard to littering it isnt just the US and the UK. I live in germany now and some people are just gross. I have picked up litter and given it back to the litter-er before. One of these days I am gonna get my ass kicked, because of the way in which i 'give it back.' I actually watched a group of picnicers throw the garbage bags in-the-general-direction of the bin and walk off. at least they made the effort. hell, I have watched fellow bikers toss their punctured tubes in the weeds...more than once. one of those fellas refuses to ride with me now.

    when i go to the river rhein to barbeque or just hang out I have TO CLEAN off an area to hangout. as the summer goes on it gets worse and worse. towards the end of the summer I dont even bother going to the rhein.

    the forests and mtns in europe I find are also full of litter relative to the mtns in the US. In the rockies, the gunks and the appalachians I rarely saw A LOT of litter. In the alps and the pyrenees sometimes it looks like someone unloaded a garbage truck on the trail.

    dont even get me started on what it was like in Japan. while living there my trips to the coast and mtns had the potential of actually induced the gag-reaction. so bad was the litter! japan is gross too. tokyo is spotless after the cleaning crews go through, but the natural areas are sickening.

    to be honest litter in urban settings is unevitable and doesnt bother me thaaaat much. litter in parks and nature annoys me more than anything else in the world....except for maybe american foreign policy...another thread another time.

    i hate litter-ers almost to the point of being a millitant non-litter-er!!!

    no anger here...


    EDIT: damned near forgot. poaching.

    private land: yes, unfortunately some people are very protective of their land, but that is their right. although not many states will let you shoot someone just for tresapassing anymore.

    public land closed to bikers: especially when it is a trail i used to / like to ride. you can lick chode if you think you're gonna stop me.

    gosh, i sure am angry today....rough day at the office.
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  25. #25
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    You think that litter is bad in developed countries, try the less developed ones. The only reason I knew I was on trail coming off the volcano Ixta in Mexico was because there was trash everywhere. Back to the original question, littering is worse. Now on to relativism- I frequently poach a trail here in Crested Butte called E----- Gulch. For several miles it is on national forest, but the bottom 200 feet go through a private pasture. I consider it a pretty minor infraction, plus it's my favorite trail in the area. There is another trail that goes through a wilderness area west of town that I want to ride badly, and probably will soon. It gets hammered by horses, so I won't feel that bad being on it and will leave a lot less trace of my passing than the horses. Cruising right over west maroon pass into aspen, on the other hand, right through deep wilderness, crosses my line. I guess in my world it really is all relative.

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