View Poll Results: What's worse: poaching or littering?

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  • poaching is worse

    13 12.75%
  • littering is worse

    88 86.27%
  • who cares ya dork!

    1 0.98%
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  1. #1
    the bomb
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    what's worse: poaching or littering?

    Out on a local ride today. There's this little slice of singletrack. Maybe I'm not supossed to ride there. There's this sign, but I usually ride past it really fast, and I'm not quite sure what it says. Anyway.......

    So lets just say I'm poaching. Today I stop at the bench with a view, and what do I see - a half eaten bag of cheetos and a bunch of other trash. I carry it out, because I can't stand litter. I mean how hard is it to carry your crap with you when you leave. There are trash cans everywhere (it's a city park).

    I may poach from time to time, but I carry out what I bring and usually anthing I find that was left by others. So what do you think is worse?
    Womanhood ain't for sissies.- oldbroad

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    Out on a local ride today. There's this little slice of singletrack. Maybe I'm not supossed to ride there. There's this sign, but I usually ride past it really fast, and I'm not quite sure what it says. Anyway.......

    So lets just say I'm poaching. Today I stop at the bench with a view, and what do I see - a half eaten bag of cheetos and a bunch of other trash. I carry it out, because I can't stand litter. I mean how hard is it to carry your crap with you when you leave. There are trash cans everywhere (it's a city park).

    I may poach from time to time, but I carry out what I bring and usually anthing I find that was left by others. So what do you think is worse?
    Littering is worse, it's always an eyesore. Poaching may and should leave no trace.

  3. #3
    Drinker w/ Riding Problem
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    Litter Just Pisses me off!

    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    So what do you think is worse?
    You know in this age of awareness with nature and all it takes is just a little effort to through your sh!t away in a trash can and yet 70% morons around with this "out of sight. out of mind " mentality. "not my prob anymore" here in South Carolina it's a joke to drive down the hwy. so much sh!t.... even in the NC forest on the the service roads , beer cans, bottles, amazed at how much trash there is. pisses me off!

    I have been guilty of some really good poaches... and felt guilty afterwards...but most have been done by accident or had to take a a detour / shortcut for some reason or another.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    a half eaten bag of cheetos

    Sorry you lost me at the free cheetos -- some people have all the luck! What was the question again???
    Fatter than most.

  5. #5
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    Cool-blue Rhythm littering!!

    If you poach a trail, that usually means that the trail already exists.
    Litter didn't exist before, well, it existed.
    Litter is evidence. Proves that a poacher was there. "It was prolly one of those mountain bikers that doesn't respect the trail" is what one might hear.

  6. #6
    I like Squishy Bikes
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    Touch call

    Poaching can be much worse, it depends on the area poached.
    Slippery slope...I know
    Private Propery vs Metro Park vs Wildlife Area vs Wilderness Area.
    I do know its very bad when the Forest Service parks next to your truck!
    A dirty book is rarely dusty

  7. #7
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    Good job! nice!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Soloracer
    Sorry you lost me at the free cheetos -- some people have all the luck! What was the question again???
    very good.

    later, j

  8. #8
    Ride what you want!!
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  9. #9
    Glad to Be Alive
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    I hate litterers...they suck
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  10. #10
    Trail rider and racer
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    I hate litterers...they suck
    Ditto. It sucks. Be it a cigarette butt or a food wrapper it's disrespectful to the environment and generally inconsiderate.
    Trev!

  11. #11
    Keepin' it real since '74
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    Littering is definitely worse, but, here in Texas, there's no way in HELL I would poach a trail...too much private land. When you go on someone's property without permission down here, you run the risk of getting shot.

    The ecological surveys I do for work require me to be on LOTS of private land, and I have to make damn sure I have access. I've had guns pulled on me 3 times...not very enjoyable.
    "If God didn't want us to eat animals, He wouldn't have made them out of meat."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    So what do you think is worse?
    Littering. If I see someone throw trash out of their car like a bag of trash, NOT stuff like bannana peals or apple cores, If I can get their plate #'s I call the local PD and report them. Don't know if they ever follow up, but hey if just one A-hole gets a $1000 fine for being too damn lazy to wait till they get home and throw their crap away then it's worth it.

  13. #13
    the unvarnished nonsense
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    another example of "relativism"....

    I'm sorry, but I can't stand the rising tide of "relativism" in our current society. I believe that some things are simply black and white, despite what our media outlets would have us believe. Littering is wrong, period. Poaching is wrong, period. Picking up litter while poaching doesn't make the poaching relatively less wrong. Just my opinion.
    "Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall."
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  14. #14
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    how about "defeatism". Some day, it's all gonna be developed anyway, so you may as well poach it and enjoy it now.

    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    I'm sorry, but I can't stand the rising tide of "relativism" in our current society. I believe that some things are simply black and white, despite what our media outlets would have us believe. Littering is wrong, period. Poaching is wrong, period. Picking up litter while poaching doesn't make the poaching relatively less wrong. Just my opinion.
    I didn't just drink the koolaid, I stuck my head in the punchbowl.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    I'm sorry, but I can't stand the rising tide of "relativism" in our current society. I believe that some things are simply black and white, despite what our media outlets would have us believe. Littering is wrong, period. Poaching is wrong, period. Picking up litter while poaching doesn't make the poaching relatively less wrong. Just my opinion.
    Wow you're right! Dammit that means i'm going to have to give up rape and murder....

    This guy has a point though, using litter to justify poaching a trail doesn't make you right and it doesn't help in getting trail access opened to trails. If you're gonna poach at least don't be disillusioned about it, you're doin a no-no. Alot of times there are really no reasons for some trails to be closed to mt. bikes, join an advocacy group in your area and get involved with getting those trails open instead of picking up trash when you're not supposed to be there....
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  16. #16
    the unvarnished nonsense
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    flawed logic...

    Quote Originally Posted by sirbikesalot
    how about "defeatism". Some day, it's all gonna be developed anyway, so you may as well poach it and enjoy it now.

    So, let's say there's someone that I strongly dislike. Someday, like everyone else that's ever walked the face of the earth, they will die. Therefore, I should just murder them now, right???

    I'm not trying to stir up a bunch of cr@p here, I was just expressing my opinion on the original question. I'm done. I've got to get busy practicing keeping my opinions to myself from now on.
    "Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall."
    -John Milton, Paradise Lost

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashedandburned
    Littering. If I see someone throw trash out of their car like a bag of trash, NOT stuff like bannana peals or apple cores, If I can get their plate #'s I call the local PD and report them. Don't know if they ever follow up, but hey if just one A-hole gets a $1000 fine for being too damn lazy to wait till they get home and throw their crap away then it's worth it.
    Why are banana peals and apple cores less of an eye sore? Does a coke can or bag from chips look worst than road kill? Throwing scrape food from your car attracks wildlife to the road, and BAM Bambi gets it...

    How about stuff like that on a trail, is it any better? Now you've attracked bears to a trail, big mean scary bears scaring little kids because they have been figured out that trails and trailhead have apple cores... BAM ranger gets the bear.

    Just something to think about when you think its ok because its just an apple core...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AscentCanada
    Why are banana peals and apple cores less of an eye sore? Does a coke can or bag from chips look worst than road kill? Throwing scrape food from your car attracks wildlife to the road, and BAM Bambi gets it...

    How about stuff like that on a trail, is it any better? Now you've attracked bears to a trail, big mean scary bears scaring little kids because they have been figured out that trails and trailhead have apple cores... BAM ranger gets the bear.

    Just something to think about when you think its ok because its just an apple core...

    Because I know that they'll be gone in a few days because they're biodegradeable. Plastic trash bag and diapers are not.

  19. #19
    the bomb
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    a million shades of grey

    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    I'm sorry, but I can't stand the rising tide of "relativism" in our current society. I believe that some things are simply black and white, despite what our media outlets would have us believe. Littering is wrong, period. Poaching is wrong, period. Picking up litter while poaching doesn't make the poaching relatively less wrong. Just my opinion.
    Just for the record, I don't entertain the notion that one trumps the other. It's just that littering, in my opinion, is a lot worse than riding a bicycle in the dirt. Was curious to see what others thought.
    Womanhood ain't for sissies.- oldbroad

  20. #20
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    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    Just for the record, I don't entertain the notion that one trumps the other. It's just that littering, in my opinion, is a lot worse than riding a bicycle in the dirt. Was curious to see what others thought.
    One is destructive to the environment and the other is an arbitrary rule. There's not much comparison.

    And Davis, it's not black and white. Your analogy is extreme, IMO. The comparison I wold use is the difference between driving 5 miles over the speed limit on the highway and assualting someone. Both are against the law but driving over the speed limit is far less harmful than punching someone in the face.

    Ken

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    Just for the record, I don't entertain the notion that one trumps the other. It's just that littering, in my opinion, is a lot worse than riding a bicycle in the dirt. Was curious to see what others thought.
    Just for the record pfunk, according to Websters, "a million shades of gray" is the text book definition of relativism. You might want to re-read davis' post. I think you missed the point, and by doing so made it that much stronger.

    Anywho, that being said, I'd never litter, but sometimes, every now and then, a girl's just gotta poach. My conscience rests easier when I do it early on week days with a bewildered "I'm everso lost" look on my face.

    It doesn't make it any less wrong, however.

  22. #22
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    When I read the title of this thread I was thinking poaching = going onto private property and killing their pheasants! Now that would be pretty bad, and possibly worse than littering... but maybe not.

    IMO, just riding onto a trail on private property is nowhere near as bad as leaving rubbish all over the place. And what kind of freak pulls a gun on someone for walking/riding on their property anyway? People with guns make me nervous... and with good reason I think (but that is another thread entirely).

    Litter is just wrong. Last time I saw some hoodrat chucking litter out of their car window they got my high-beams in their mirrors. Who do they think is gonna clean it up? It's disgusting to see the amount of crap that blows around in the street just because some arsehole was too lazy to find a bin. I once had an argument with a woman in the street for throwing her chocolate bar wrapper on the floor 5 yards from a bin... of course she told me to F off (typical of the type of person who does that - probably the same person who would not bother to put their shopping cart back in the rack at the supermarket), but at least I tried. Biodegradable stuff is somewhat excusable as long as it's not dumped right in the middle of the pavement or something, but plastic takes thousands of years to decay rather than a couple of days. Add to that the fact that each year many animals and birds are killed after getting tangled up in plastic wrapping, fishing line etc. and you have an environmental disaster.

    I don't know what is wrong with people in countries like the UK and US... why do people here think it's okay to dump litter when people in other countries always tidy up? Last time I was on holiday in Austria I saw one piece of litter the whole time I was there (probably left by a British or American tourist). They had bins all over the place and everybody used them. There's no reason why it shouldn't be like that everywhere.

    - Jen.

  23. #23
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    Al Bundy once said

    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    Out on a local ride today. There's this little slice of singletrack. Maybe I'm not supossed to ride there. There's this sign, but I usually ride past it really fast, and I'm not quite sure what it says. Anyway.......

    So lets just say I'm poaching. Today I stop at the bench with a view, and what do I see - a half eaten bag of cheetos and a bunch of other trash. I carry it out, because I can't stand litter. I mean how hard is it to carry your crap with you when you leave. There are trash cans everywhere (it's a city park).

    I may poach from time to time, but I carry out what I bring and usually anthing I find that was left by others. So what do you think is worse?
    "Its ONLY wrong if you get caught".....

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig
    I don't know what is wrong with people in countries like the UK and US... why do people here think it's okay to dump litter when people in other countries always tidy up? Last time I was on holiday in Austria I saw one piece of litter the whole time I was there (probably left by a British or American tourist). They had bins all over the place and everybody used them. There's no reason why it shouldn't be like that everywhere.

    - Jen.
    dont get me wrong i am not euro or japan bashing here, BUT

    with regard to littering it isnt just the US and the UK. I live in germany now and some people are just gross. I have picked up litter and given it back to the litter-er before. One of these days I am gonna get my ass kicked, because of the way in which i 'give it back.' I actually watched a group of picnicers throw the garbage bags in-the-general-direction of the bin and walk off. at least they made the effort. hell, I have watched fellow bikers toss their punctured tubes in the weeds...more than once. one of those fellas refuses to ride with me now.

    when i go to the river rhein to barbeque or just hang out I have TO CLEAN off an area to hangout. as the summer goes on it gets worse and worse. towards the end of the summer I dont even bother going to the rhein.

    the forests and mtns in europe I find are also full of litter relative to the mtns in the US. In the rockies, the gunks and the appalachians I rarely saw A LOT of litter. In the alps and the pyrenees sometimes it looks like someone unloaded a garbage truck on the trail.

    dont even get me started on what it was like in Japan. while living there my trips to the coast and mtns had the potential of actually induced the gag-reaction. so bad was the litter! japan is gross too. tokyo is spotless after the cleaning crews go through, but the natural areas are sickening.

    to be honest litter in urban settings is unevitable and doesnt bother me thaaaat much. litter in parks and nature annoys me more than anything else in the world....except for maybe american foreign policy...another thread another time.

    i hate litter-ers almost to the point of being a millitant non-litter-er!!!

    no anger here...


    EDIT: damned near forgot. poaching.

    private land: yes, unfortunately some people are very protective of their land, but that is their right. although not many states will let you shoot someone just for tresapassing anymore.

    public land closed to bikers: especially when it is a trail i used to / like to ride. you can lick chode if you think you're gonna stop me.

    gosh, i sure am angry today....rough day at the office.
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  25. #25
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    You think that litter is bad in developed countries, try the less developed ones. The only reason I knew I was on trail coming off the volcano Ixta in Mexico was because there was trash everywhere. Back to the original question, littering is worse. Now on to relativism- I frequently poach a trail here in Crested Butte called E----- Gulch. For several miles it is on national forest, but the bottom 200 feet go through a private pasture. I consider it a pretty minor infraction, plus it's my favorite trail in the area. There is another trail that goes through a wilderness area west of town that I want to ride badly, and probably will soon. It gets hammered by horses, so I won't feel that bad being on it and will leave a lot less trace of my passing than the horses. Cruising right over west maroon pass into aspen, on the other hand, right through deep wilderness, crosses my line. I guess in my world it really is all relative.

  26. #26
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    what are the odds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hello Kitty
    Just for the record pfunk, according to Websters, "a million shades of gray" is the text book definition of relativism. You might want to re-read davis' post. I think you missed the point, and by doing so made it that much stronger.
    so, I misunderstood the meaning of the word relativism and just happened to type it's "text book definition" in the subject of my reply? What are the odds? Seems more likely I knew what it meant, doesn't it?

    Putting "a million shades of gray" in the subject was just a subtle way of saying I disagree with Davis' black and white view, but didn't really want to argue about it.

    What I chose to address however, was the question of whether or not I intended to say that I thought that picking up liter made poaching "less bad" and my asnwer to that was no.
    Womanhood ain't for sissies.- oldbroad

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    so, I misunderstood the meaning of the word relativism and just happened to type it's "text book definition" in the subject of my reply? What are the odds? Seems more likely I knew what it meant, doesn't it?

    Putting "a million shades of gray" in the subject was just a subtle way of saying I disagree with Davis' black and white view, but didn't really want to argue about it.

    What I chose to address however, was the question of whether or not I intended to say that I thought that picking up liter made poaching "less bad" and my asnwer to that was no.
    Nope, you're still not gettin' it.

  28. #28
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    religous zeal

    The question posed as to which is worse seems to make the choice simple, though the question remains, worse for what? Poaching may be worse for trail access issues in a certain place at a certain time than a hiker's litter may be in the same situation. Then again, there is litter left by people on bicycles, especially after a race. How many bicycle reflectors have been found on trails? I find a bicycle reflector left on the trail worse than any bag with Chester Cheetah emblazoned on it because the reflector was obviously left by someone on a bicycle. Sure, litter is a larger problem than poaching will ever be as a whole, however sometimes a poach can be more damaging than a little garbage can be in certain situations.

  29. #29
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    Er....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hello Kitty
    Nope, you're still not gettin' it.
    It seems pretty clear to me that she does. Maybe I'm too dumb to understand.

    Ken

  30. #30
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    enlighten me then

    Quote Originally Posted by Hello Kitty
    Nope, you're still not gettin' it.
    12345
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashedandburned
    Because I know that they'll be gone in a few days because they're biodegradeable. Plastic trash bag and diapers are not.
    I used to have the same opinion as I think most people do... It will probably be eaten by somehing long before it biodegrades...

    I was down in Waterton park, the montana side is Glacier National Park. There are alot of bears in that area, its pretty easy to see a bear every day that your are there. At one trailhead some people had a picnic and carefully thrown all the plastic garbage out, but had thrown a few apple cores into the trees. No harm they're biodegradeable...

    Well a bear had figured out this happens alot at that trail, and had started getting aggresive. I checked the news when I got home and sure enough it had been shot that weekend.

    I agree with you I hate getting into a lake or something and finding it littered with garbage. But I also don't want to see somebody get attacked by a bear or that bear killed because I threw some food along the trail.

  32. #32
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    Both are a form of theft -- stealing public property.

    Don't try to rationalize or point fingers at someone else. You know the difference between right and wrong.

    Character is what you do when you know you won't get caught.

  33. #33
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    To add insult to injury, have you ever seen someone fined for littering? How about for poaching? Littering is worse and easier to get away with.
    Stopping to pick up litter kills momentum but delivers good bike-karma. Once at the end of a poach I stopped for a cliff wrapper(accidentally dropped no doubt) and heard the Ranger working right around the corner. Time to flip a u-ey.

  34. #34
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    Apple cores and banana peels...

    and other such food may be biodegradable, but keep in mind that animals may venture out onto the road to eat it. Not really fair to lure animals out into traffic, in addition to the safety of drivers / pedestrians, etc.

    But to answer the original question, I hate litter. In fact, for Earth Day I just took my kindergarten class out to do a cleanup around the school. It was incredible what people will leave behind!
    Work. Ride. Eat. Sleep.

    Repeat.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54
    Both are a form of theft -- stealing public property.
    And the "no bikes" sign is stealing property from the public.

    "There is only one sovereign remedy, namely, non-violent non-cooperation."
    - Mohandas Ghandi

  36. #36
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddy
    And the "no bikes" sign is stealing property from the public.

    "There is only one sovereign remedy, namely, non-violent non-cooperation."
    - Mohandas Ghandi
    non-violent non-cooperation ... I like that
    Womanhood ain't for sissies.- oldbroad

  37. #37
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    Poaching Sucks!

    Poaching is worse. It just doesn't give any flavor. Poached eggs are so bland. I like mine cooked with butter, or better yet, bacon grease. Bacon is the greatest invention ever. Sometimes there isn't an ashtray around and you don't have any choice but to flip your cigarette butts into the bushes. But there's no excuse for poaching.
    Back of the camera, back of the pack.

  38. #38
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    FN Litters!

    Litters just freaking suck! Probably the same group of jerk offs who throw thier cigarette butts out their windows while going down the road because they don't want to smell up thier car. Fockers deserve to have thier homes burn down. ARRRGH

  39. #39
    L1MEY
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D.
    The question posed as to which is worse seems to make the choice simple, though the question remains, worse for what? Poaching may be worse for trail access issues in a certain place at a certain time than a hiker's litter may be in the same situation. Then again, there is litter left by people on bicycles, especially after a race. How many bicycle reflectors have been found on trails? I find a bicycle reflector left on the trail worse than any bag with Chester Cheetah emblazoned on it because the reflector was obviously left by someone on a bicycle. Sure, litter is a larger problem than poaching will ever be as a whole, however sometimes a poach can be more damaging than a little garbage can be in certain situations.
    I see reflectors on trails quite often... I assume that they just fell off rather then the person making a concerted effort to remove their reflectors on the trail and then leave them there. That wouldn't make any sense at all...

  40. #40
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    Both are allowed under certain circumstances

    Quote Originally Posted by pfunk
    So what do you think is worse?
    Litterring and poaching are perfectly acceptable under one of TWO conditions;

    1. It is allowable (and highly desriable) to litter when it involves the UNEXPECTED (not planned or intentional) release of fecal matter or any other highly offensive bodily fluid limited mainly to the gastrointestinal system of humans.

    2. It is allowable to poach land clearly marked with no trespassing signs (but not including 'danger' or any other hazard notification placarding) only if the route that you take involves transporting your person from one end of the poachable land to another in the most direct route possible and you do not intend to return on said path to complete your route. This is limited to the 15-minute rule, in that your can only poach this direct route in less than 15-mins.

    So if you have to litter the fecal matter, use descretion and at least bury it...and if you need to poach a section of private land to continue your loop it is allowable. At least it is in my book. ;-)

  41. #41
    Bike to the Bone...
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    Quote Originally Posted by davis
    So, let's say there's someone that I strongly dislike. Someday, like everyone else that's ever walked the face of the earth, they will die. Therefore, I should just murder them now, right???

    I'm not trying to stir up a bunch of cr@p here, I was just expressing my opinion on the original question. I'm done. I've got to get busy practicing keeping my opinions to myself from now on.
    I just hate litter! It just makes so many nice places suck! It has happened several times after a long hike or ride to see this wonderfull view, and, voila, full of trash! What a mayor turn off.

    It isn't hard to carry at least your trash from wherever you went back to your car or closest trash can. If the people carried full all the way from their cars, they can return it empty afterwards, it's a lot less weight.

    As to poaching, I think that we should care where we ride. Especially now that they are closing some valid trails. Unfortunately, if just 1% of riders don't observe the rules, they give a bad image. It's not that somebody has something special against mtbers, but it's how we look at groups. Let's say, there is a group of 100 people with blue and green skin, in a corner you see 10 people helping a car accident, and in another you see 2 people throwing rotten eggs at cars, it's more likely that you would say that people with blue and green skin are jerks that don't care about anything.

    Anyway, I think it's a lot worse littering than poaching (as long as you don't get chased by a gun holding land owner).

    Sometimes I have poached, but it was an accident, we turned right in a trail rather than left, and after 3 miles we found out we were on the inside of a fence. Fortunately we didn't have any problems, but we now know where the right trail is.

  42. #42
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    While I don't think it's always cool to poach, I think it's never cool to litter...
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
    suum quique

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddy
    And the "no bikes" sign is stealing property from the public.

    "There is only one sovereign remedy, namely, non-violent non-cooperation."
    - Mohandas Ghandi
    why the fuck does a post have to have a minimum # of characters, especially when it contains a quote? ans when the heck did theyy change background color around here???!?!?!
    Last edited by chuffer; 04-28-2005 at 12:21 PM. Reason: 255 x 3
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  44. #44
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    littler is litter regardless of intent

    Quote Originally Posted by mahgnillig
    I see reflectors on trails quite often... I assume that they just fell off rather then the person making a concerted effort to remove their reflectors on the trail and then leave them there. That wouldn't make any sense at all...
    With that notion, one can only wonder if you feel that the slob who leaves buttweiser cans in the bed of their pickup and occasionally has one blow out onto the road is not littering. Reflectors have no place on the trail, period. If one uses the road to access trails at night, they should have the proper lighting and reflective clothing. Leaving reflectors on a bike used for riding trails at anytime is only inviting litter, which is almost as bad as the slob who intentionally litters. Litter is caused by action and inaction. The environment could care less about intent because crap is crap, no matter how it's flushed.

  45. #45
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    I am guilty

    When I switched my stock pedals out for clippless pedals I noticed that some of the reflectors were missing from the stock pedals. I bought the bike from a LBS, so it was already assembled ie I did not put the reflectors on the bike. I had no intent of riding at night because I am not experienced, but I never even considered that the reflectors would end up as litter on the trail. Just so you know I really hate litter and believed that in all of my outdoor endeavors that I take every precaution to avoid litter, usually pick it up when I see someone else’s litter.

  46. #46
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    Litter Bugs should die of Genetal Warts and burn in Hell

    I love being outdoors, and the last thing I want to see when I'm up on a trail is garbage chillin along the side. I learned at a young age, mostly from camping, that if you pack it in, pack it out!!! It's not that hard.

    Seriously, I think littering is a result of a much larger phenomenon that has crept it's way into society. Too many people just don't give a crap about anything around them. They are so self absorbed that it doesn't occur to them that littering might be a bad thing and that it is hurting the environment. I think another part of has to do with ignorance and lack of common sense. Either way, there is no excuse for trashing places people like to go.

    What are people thinking when they . . . Oh wait, nevermind, I answered my own question. THEY AREN'T THINKING!!!

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